Topic: headphones directly into laptop

[richgilb]

Hi All,

Whilst I finish my mixes via decent gear and through my preferred Spendor monitors, I mostly edit on the move with a Macbook Pro and a pair of headphones. This inevitably ends up with me doing a bit of mixing as I go. I was considering a pair of open-backed comfy headphones to make this a more pleasant experience (my current phones are the Sennheiser HD280 and Shure SE535 - Senns are ok sounding, just not that comfy, the Shures are good sounding, just not that convenient to use).

As I spent time circling around the AKG K-701 and the Sennheiser HD-650 and also Grados, I keep coming across comments that suggest they are not that good through laptops and need great amps etc. This in mind and the fact that I am happy enough with the sound I have already (but not the comfort or convenience), are there any open-backed headphones that are not too compromised being driven by laptops? Will I be OK with the 3 brands I have already looked at?

[dabbler]

Look at impedance level published by the manufacturers.  Any respectable headphone manufacturers will publish that spec, I know Sennheiser does.
For headphones with 32-64 ohm impedance, you likely won't need an external amp, but the HD650s (300 ohm), you will.   I don't have any recommendations for a low-impedance, open-back headphone, though.

[richgilb]

Thanks very much for this. Just what I needed. AKG 701 is cheaper and lower impedance.....a pair of Grados I once had needed the wire resoldering and the foam seemed to tear easily.

[Gutbucket]

I read that frequently, but have had no problem using HD650s with mediocre built-in headphone circuitry in several different laptops and recorders.  Do they sound better connected trough a dedicated DAC/headphone amp? well sure, any headphone does.  I suggest buying whichever phones which are the best sound match to your ears and that you can do good work on without too many problems later.  The impedance deal is totally secondary to that and not nearly as important.  I think it's one of those audiophile 'angels on the head of a pin' thing, focusing on and exaggerating detectible but minor things and blowing their influence up and out of proportion compared to other things that matter far more but get overlooked.  Missing the forest for the trees.

There are certainly audible aspects of different quality levels in DACs and headpone amps, but the sonic aspects which lead me to choose the 650s over other headphones are apparent regardless of what I use to drive them.

The only real practical limitation in my mind is loudness level- if you are working on a recording made with very low recording levels that has not had it's gain increased, low impedance phones will play louder with the headphone volume level cranked.

[bryonsos]

You may want to consider a headphone amp/DAC as an upgrade rather than new cans. I've been very pleased with the Audioengine D1 that I fluffed a couple months ago:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=156786.0

I still do a lot of critical listening with headphones (housemate who doesn't enjoy late night tracking sessions), but I've also added a pair of their A5+ active monitors. I'm impressed with those too. There are other threads here regarding headphone amps, you can easily find good options over a range of prices.

Saw Gutbucket posted while I was typing, but what he's saying doesn't contradict my point - a decent amp will give you better performance over the built in ones on laptops.

[Gutbucket]

Absolutely true.  I guess my point is the difference between headphones is more important than the difference between amps, and those differences are apparent regardless of the amp.  701 and 650 sound quite different regardless of what is driving them.  Start by choosing the headphone that is the best match for your hearing, then add an amp to frost the cake.

[richgilb]

I read that frequently, but have had no problem using HD650s with mediocre built-in headphone circuitry in several different laptops and recorders. 

Good. I lean towards Sennheiser.....I note a couple of people remark that the HD650 is good for monitoring AND is easy on the ear for leisure listening too. As the process is as important to me as the output, an enjoyable headphone is critical! I hear that the K701 can be less easy on the ear.....and I have enjoyed my HD280s so far.

OK, so that brings things back a happy start, I guess.

[thunderbolt]

As I spent time circling around the AKG K-701 and the Sennheiser HD-650 and also Grados, I keep coming across comments that suggest they are not that good through laptops and need great amps etc. This in mind and the fact that I am happy enough with the sound I have already (but not the comfort or convenience), are there any open-backed headphones that are not too compromised being driven by laptops? Will I be OK with the 3 brands I have already looked at?

I bought this DAC/amp for my laptop, and I really like it.  Cheap, and it complements my AKG702/Senn 600s very well.

http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/iconudac2/

[Gutbucket]

I read that frequently, but have had no problem using HD650s with mediocre built-in headphone circuitry in several different laptops and recorders. 

Good. I lean towards Sennheiser.....I note a couple of people remark that the HD650 is good for monitoring AND is easy on the ear for leisure listening too. As the process is as important to me as the output, an enjoyable headphone is critical! I hear that the K701 can be less easy on the ear.....and I have enjoyed my HD280s so far.

OK, so that brings things back a happy start, I guess.

I feel much more confident choosing a headphone amp soley on the recommendations of others than taking a chance on phones without giving the contenders a good comparative listen. Phones are just too personal of a thing, each person's close-coupled ear resonaces are different and the EQ response of various headphones varies significantly, unlike amps.  650 works well for me and 701 did not, but that doesn't mean much for you.. I know the 701 works better for some people here.  There are typically general similarites in response within brands, so if the 280s work for you, other Senn cans may also.

[richgilb]

You may want to consider a headphone amp/DAC as an upgrade rather than new cans. I've been very pleased with the Audioengine D1 that I fluffed a couple months ago:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=156786.0

I still do a lot of critical listening with headphones (housemate who doesn't enjoy late night tracking sessions), but I've also added a pair of their A5+ active monitors. I'm impressed with those too. There are other threads here regarding headphone amps, you can easily find good options over a range of prices.

Saw Gutbucket posted while I was typing, but what he's saying doesn't contradict my point - a decent amp will give you better performance over the built in ones on laptops.

So I bought a pair of Sennheisers and am interestedn in this D1..... do you use it via optical or is it as good just through the USB? If you use it via optical does it still need USB for power?

[bryonsos]

You may want to consider a headphone amp/DAC as an upgrade rather than new cans. I've been very pleased with the Audioengine D1 that I fluffed a couple months ago:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=156786.0

I still do a lot of critical listening with headphones (housemate who doesn't enjoy late night tracking sessions), but I've also added a pair of their A5+ active monitors. I'm impressed with those too. There are other threads here regarding headphone amps, you can easily find good options over a range of prices.

Saw Gutbucket posted while I was typing, but what he's saying doesn't contradict my point - a decent amp will give you better performance over the built in ones on laptops.

So I bought a pair of Sennheisers and am interestedn in this D1..... do you use it via optical or is it as good just through the USB? If you use it via optical does it still need USB for power?

I haven't tried optical, but USB sounds fine, a huge improvement. It gets power from USB, so you'd need to use both.

[weroflu]

i just picked up one of these...

http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac

with a right angle usb adaptor it doesn't add any dimension to a laptop.

i'm messing around with mastering software using this dac/amp. at first it sounded very shrill to me, but i got used to it and
i *think* i'm making more accurate decisions now. but it would be nice to have more opinions from other people on it. it drives my beyer dt990 600 ohm fine.

[bryonsos]

i just picked up one of these...

http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac

with a right angle usb adaptor it doesn't add any dimension to a laptop.

i'm messing around with mastering software using this dac/amp. at first it sounded very shrill to me, but i got used to it and
i *think* i'm making more accurate decisions now. but it would be nice to have more opinions from other people on it. it drives my beyer dt990 600 ohm fine.

Pretty slick looking. I saw the price on Amazon, seems a bit pricey. Have you listened to something other than a recording? I'd be interested to see a review vs the stock amps on your laptop. Thanks!

[weroflu]

by other than a recording do you mean an album? 

at first i thought that i wasted money on the dragonfly because the laptop amp sounded warmer.
but after some time listening to albums, it's just more accurate like mastering speakers. well-recorded albums sound stellar, and not so well recorded ones can sound worse than the laptop amp. but i figured for making critical decisions the dragonfly would be better.

the most noticeable thing is that the highs go on forever with this thing. sort of annoying for anything that is tinny or distorted up top. but i think it helps  get a sense of what is actually happening up top. the lows are much much more defined than the laptop as well.