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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: travelinbeat on April 07, 2009, 11:28:53 PM
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Please excuse the ignorance of this question-- I am completely new to open taping. I would love nothing more than to search through all these threads to answer my question, but I don't even know what to look for... all of these abbreviations and acronyms are completely alien to me.
I am going to be buying a pair of AT4041's and a R-09HR (to replace my H120). I know I need something to put in between them, and I hear that I may also need a pre and an a/d. I am wondering what my options are. Please keep in mind that my budget is rather limited (ideally I'd like to spend less than $100). I would love to buy something from someone here if you know anyone trying to offload their gear, but I'm not particular, I just want something reliable and reputable to run the new rig!
Thanks for being kind
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Your AT4041s require phantom power, so you'll need something to provide it. Could be as simple as a Denecke PS-2 or other phantom power supply. There are a couple different models out there, some cheaper, some more expensive. I know AKG makes them, I think Art makes them, and there are probably others, too. I'd budget ~$100.
You're right, you'll also probably need a way to add gain between the mics & phantom power and recorder. On the cheap, you might consider a pair of line transformers to boost the signal (~$40 for a pair). These will add a fixed amount of gain and you would control levels on the R-09HR. Gear chain would look something like this: AT4041 > Denecke PS-2 > line transformers > Edirol R-09HR. FWIW, I've used the Hosa MIT-176 line transformers in the past and they worked just fine for me until I decided to get a preamp.
Given your gear, you should use the R-09HR's internal ADC because <1> it sounds pretty good on its own, and <2> since the R-09HR doesn't have a digital input, performing ADC outside of the recorder won't do you any good.
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How much gain does the Hoas transformer add?
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IIRC, in the neighborhood of 25 dB.
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If you can wait a little bit and squeeze a bit more out of your budget, mshilarious is designing a preamp that will provide phantom power. Target is for $159 and a 5/1 release, I believe.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,118862.0.html
Obviously a lot of unknowns with this one, but in general mshilarious really knows his stuff and the design he is working on and the op amps he plans on using for it look very promising. I'm jumping in as soon as it is ready and will do some testing and comparisons.
EDIT: BTW, I owned and ran AT4041s for awhile. Very nice mics and way under the radar around here.
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Thanks for this great info! I've looked around a bit and noticed that heaps of people are using the PS2, so I think that this may be a good bet. I stumbled upon Len's site, though, and in a comparison chart (http://www.core-sound.com/2Phant/3.php) he mentions that the PS2 only run for 18min?? How could that even be right? Is the device's output XLR as well? Anyone know any cheap dealers?
Also, what would be a good preamp to run after the power? As handy as the cables may be, I think I would prefer having the flexibilty of changing the levels on the fly with with pre.
As an aside, I saw that the R-09HR has a AGC function on it... on my Rockboxed H120, the AGC is onfigured only to turn down the levels, and never turn them back up. This was a great function for stealthing (for obvious reasons). Any word on whether or not the R-09HR is capable of this same configuration?
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The PS-2 has XLR inputs and outputs. I think they're discontinued, so you may have to find one on the used market. But maybe you'll get lucky and find some new old stock. If you can't find one, there are other options (that elude my recollection at the moment).
Len's chart assumes each mic draws 10 mA. Very few mics, at least that people use on TS, do so. I'm not sure what the 4041s draw* -- might be worth finding out to make a more informed decision. If battery run-time is an issue, it's easy to run the PS-2 on an external power source. I've also used a PS-2 with 9v batteries before and hot-swapped without noticing any problems, but you've gotta be fast and if you flub the swap, it'll impact the recording.
* Edit to add: 3.2mA, per AT product website (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/b43bffe4d4295274/index.html)
As for preamp, most preamps for full-size mics provide phantom power, so you probably wouldn't need a PS-2 + a preamp. To use your AT4041s effectively with your R-09HR, you need two things: phantom power and gain. You could use a different device to provide both (PS-2 for phantom + line transformers for gain), a single device to provide both (most preamps), or you might even get by using a device for phantom power (PS-2) and your R-09HR for gain. (I suspect the last option is likely to leave your levels too low to deliver good results.)
If you can swing a preamp, that's your best bet: two functions in one (phantom + gain), fewer cables with which to mess around, fewer battery issues to sweat, etc.
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Need phantom power? Take a look at the Art Phantom II
http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?id=69&cat=13&type=90
$40-50 it takes two 9volt batteries and can switch between 12 and 48 volts.
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...If you can swing a preamp, that's your best bet: two functions in one (phantom + gain), fewer cables with which to mess around, fewer battery issues to sweat, etc.
THanks for the extremely helpful post! Any recommendations on a decent pre?
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...If you can swing a preamp, that's your best bet: two functions in one (phantom + gain), fewer cables with which to mess around, fewer battery issues to sweat, etc.
THanks for the extremely helpful post! Any recommendations on a decent pre?
most decent pres are going to be in the $300 and up to $1000+ range.
there is a wendt x2 in the yard sale right now for under $300 that is a great price for a nice box... SOLDthere is also a beyerdynamic mv100 in the yard for 200, iirc not to long ago. both of these would be a good start. http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119192.0.html
if you need to stay under 100... the ps2 with (or without) hosa line transformers, would be a very acceptable option. i ran a ps2 with the transformers for about a year while i was looking for my sd mp2 and was happy with the results. there is one in the yard now too. http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,117947.0.html
good luck
edit to add links... no affiliation with these items...
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THanks for the extremely helpful post! Any recommendations on a decent pre?
You already own a decent pre according to your sig! Get a PS2 and run mic>ps2>st9100>recorder. Getting line adapters when you own a st9100 is not necessary imho. When I run two rigs at shows I run ps2>st9100>r09 plus busman pmd660.
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THanks for the extremely helpful post! Any recommendations on a decent pre?
You already own a decent pre according to your sig! Get a PS2 and run mic>ps2>st9100>recorder.
My thoughts exactly. But you'd need some kind of interconnect between the PS2 and ST-9100.
Does you Church pre have 2x miniXLR in, or 2x 1/8"?
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My 9100 has one 1/8 stereo input
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Seems like Sound Pros still sells their 1/8" output modded PS-2:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/DEN-PS2-MINI (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/DEN-PS2-MINI)
I would request a thicker 1/8" cable though... the one Chris uses is unnecessarily thin.
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I have a brand new dual Neutrik xlr>right angle mini plug cable (@ 4') that i'll let go cheap if you want it. If I read that right that you have a PS2.