Topic: Copy MiniDisc with MixPre

[philipus]

Hello everybody

I'm very new at this excellent forum and hope I've landed this post in the right spot. I have a MixPre 6 II which I use for field recording. But since it's a capable sound card I was thinking of using it to copy my collection of MiniDiscs to my Mac Pro. I know how to set it up to bring the signal in through the Aux/Mix In via Ch 5 and Ch 6 and out of the Stereo Out. I will also turn off the L and R mix because I'd obviously like to record the signal as registered on the discs. I would record the discs in Reaper (though I have Audacity and Davinci Resolve too).

But what I am wondering about is what other settings I should use. What I'm thinking about is this:

- Because the signal will effectively pass through the MixPre and not be recorded, does it make a difference which bit depth I set in the Record menu?
- If it makes a difference, what should I pick bearing in mind the specs of the MiniDisc format and that I'm on Mac and the Audio Midi settings available?
- Should I link Ch 5 and Ch 6?
– And finally how should I set Gain on those channels in view of the fact that there is also the Mac's input volume to consider and Reaper's volume settings?

I hope these are not stupid or overly evident questions and thank you in advance.
Philip

[jefflester]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like you are passing an analog signal "In via Ch 5 and Ch 6 and out of the Stereo Out" from the MixPre to the Mac. In that case you are not using the MixPre as a soundcard at all. You would want the MixPre>Mac connection to be USB and set up your Reaper/Audacity to record from that as a source. The Mac and Reaper levels should not factor in since the signal is digital, set by the MixPre. That's certainly doable, but more simply you can just record the minidisc>MixPre standalone (like a field recording) and transfer the file to the computer afterwards via USB or a card reader.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I use my MixPre-6 as a audio interface when recording vinyl to my Mac.

Chain is: Turntable > Preamp > MixPre > USB > iZotope.

I have the OG MixPre so it's only 24 bit (not 32). I still set my recording settings in iZotope to 32bit. Unsure if it makes a difference, or if I'm even getting 32bit or just 24bit with a bunch of zero's to pad up to 32bit. Works more than adequately either way.

I used to do the recording straight to the MixPre, but then I had to transfer the recording from the SD card which was an extra step I eliminated.

[goodcooker]

I would use the Mixpre as a USB interface to supply the input signal to Reaper. You save yourself the potential for multiple AD conversion steps (I have a Mixpre and I'm not 100% certain that it would go through an AD > DA conversion on the trip between input and output but it's likely even if it wouldn't really impact the sound) and setting two gain stages (the Mixpre and the Mac internal soundcard).

Save a step. The Mixpre was specifically designed to act as an interface as well as a recorder.

[philipus]

Thank. you very much Jeff. Yes precisely, that's how I also imagine this connection to work, like a pass-through I suppose. I considered the option to record but it seemed to me an unnecessary step. But perhaps it's the preferred way? I don't find this described in the manual.

Cheers
Philip

Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like you are passing an analog signal "In via Ch 5 and Ch 6 and out of the Stereo Out" from the MixPre to the Mac. In that case you are not using the MixPre as a soundcard at all. You would want the MixPre>Mac connection to be USB and set up your Reaper/Audacity to record from that as a source. The Mac and Reaper levels should not factor in since the signal is digital, set by the MixPre. That's certainly doable, but more simply you can just record the minidisc>MixPre standalone (like a field recording) and transfer the file to the computer afterwards via USB or a card reader.

[philipus]

Thank you very much Mike. What you write about the bits is also something I've wondered about. In my MiniDisc situation the discs themselves are (I believe) only 16 bit but being able to use the benefits of 32-bit could help avoid having to set levels on each song on each disc. At least that's what I imagine would be the benefit. Btw, can I ask which preamp you use for your turntable? This is something I've also thought about doing to get all my music into the Mac.

I use my MixPre-6 as a audio interface when recording vinyl to my Mac.

Chain is: Turntable > Preamp > MixPre > USB > iZotope.

I have the OG MixPre so it's only 24 bit (not 32). I still set my recording settings in iZotope to 32bit. Unsure if it makes a difference, or if I'm even getting 32bit or just 24bit with a bunch of zero's to pad up to 32bit. Works more than adequately either way.

I used to do the recording straight to the MixPre, but then I had to transfer the recording from the SD card which was an extra step I eliminated.

[fransb]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to use a minidisc player with a digital out (like my old Sony MDS-JB940) and feed that output into an interface with digital input or into a recorder with digital input?

[philipus]

Thank you for your reply, I hadn't thought about the multiple AD conversion aspect. So if I use USB I won't need to set any gain on the MixPre, is that right? I'm wondering because I do see a gain function in the menus for Ch 5 and Ch 6.

I would use the Mixpre as a USB interface to supply the input signal to Reaper. You save yourself the potential for multiple AD conversion steps (I have a Mixpre and I'm not 100% certain that it would go through an AD > DA conversion on the trip between input and output but it's likely even if it wouldn't really impact the sound) and setting two gain stages (the Mixpre and the Mac internal soundcard).

Save a step. The Mixpre was specifically designed to act as an interface as well as a recorder.

[TheJez]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to use a minidisc player with a digital out (like my old Sony MDS-JB940) and feed that output into an interface with digital input or into a recorder with digital input?

Sounds like the best way to go, as it would completely eliminate any D/A and A/D conversions and therefor questions about gain settings. However I'm not sure the OP would find it worth to get such a player and interface if he hasn't has them already. The analog path throught he MixPre could be a good enough 2nd-best option.

[ol' dirty taper]

I use a Mac as well and was able to consolidate my collection by pulling the raw data from the Minidisc via USB to my computer and converting the OMA files to WAV.

At the time I used linux-minidisc (https://wiki.physik.fu-berlin.de/linux-minidisc/doku.php?id=start) QHiMDTransfer (https://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/qhimdtransfer)....

However this looks to be the most updated version of those two apps in one - https://github.com/jyw321/MD-Project/blob/main/Hi-MD.md

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Pro-ject Phono Box. Pretty basic, but good enough for my needs. I just am digitizing any vinyl I own that does not have any digital option like streaming or on Bandcamp. Mostly 7" singles.

Thank you very much Mike. What you write about the bits is also something I've wondered about. In my MiniDisc situation the discs themselves are (I believe) only 16 bit but being able to use the benefits of 32-bit could help avoid having to set levels on each song on each disc. At least that's what I imagine would be the benefit. Btw, can I ask which preamp you use for your turntable? This is something I've also thought about doing to get all my music into the Mac.

I use my MixPre-6 as a audio interface when recording vinyl to my Mac.

Chain is: Turntable > Preamp > MixPre > USB > iZotope.

I have the OG MixPre so it's only 24 bit (not 32). I still set my recording settings in iZotope to 32bit. Unsure if it makes a difference, or if I'm even getting 32bit or just 24bit with a bunch of zero's to pad up to 32bit. Works more than adequately either way.

I used to do the recording straight to the MixPre, but then I had to transfer the recording from the SD card which was an extra step I eliminated.

[goodcooker]

Thank you for your reply, I hadn't thought about the multiple AD conversion aspect. So if I use USB I won't need to set any gain on the MixPre, is that right? I'm wondering because I do see a gain function in the menus for Ch 5 and Ch 6.

I would use the Mixpre as a USB interface to supply the input signal to Reaper. You save yourself the potential for multiple AD conversion steps (I have a Mixpre and I'm not 100% certain that it would go through an AD > DA conversion on the trip between input and output but it's likely even if it wouldn't really impact the sound) and setting two gain stages (the Mixpre and the Mac internal soundcard).

Save a step. The Mixpre was specifically designed to act as an interface as well as a recorder.

The gain functions will act the same as they do when using the device as a recorder. You simply go into the menu, set the input channels for line level and choose which inputs go to which USB channel outputs. It's very simple.

If it was me I would use the recorder as a recorder and drop the files into Reaper from the SD card just like I would any recording I make but using it for one of it's intended purposes - as a USB interface - only requires a few button pushes to achieve what you want.

As always, my opinion is to do whatever is most likely to get you a result. If trying to achieve what you, or others, may see as perfection could get in the way of getting the task accomplished do what's the path of least resistance.

 Done is better than perfect.

[morst]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to use a minidisc player with a digital out (like my old Sony MDS-JB940) and feed that output into an interface with digital input or into a recorder with digital input?

I think keeping it digital is a great idea.
That said, all the analog transfer methods with this modern gear will surely work fine, and likely exceed the quality of the original MD media.
If you do an analog transfer, save the originals, so you can do a digital transfer later, once you realize how much better it might be!?!?
 


but yeah, don't let perfect be the enemy of finished!
If it's just one or two discs, not really worth sourcing a digital machine... Hundreds? Perhaps.


One potential advantage or recording to the SD card is that you won't have any interference which might be caused by having a computer plugged in. Suggest running off USB power pack to avoid this, but they might have little computers in them which make noise too!? Wall wart? Also a switching power supply...
Another advantage of using the SD card is you can use the Wingman app to connect to the MixPre and set the file name each time you change discs. It only takes short names though.

[lukpac]

I use a Mac as well and was able to consolidate my collection by pulling the raw data from the Minidisc via USB to my computer and converting the OMA files to WAV.

At the time I used linux-minidisc (https://wiki.physik.fu-berlin.de/linux-minidisc/doku.php?id=start) QHiMDTransfer (https://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/qhimdtransfer)....

However this looks to be the most updated version of those two apps in one - https://github.com/jyw321/MD-Project/blob/main/Hi-MD.md

I would suggest Web MiniDisc Pro:

https://webmd.pro/

It will extract the raw data from the MiniDiscs; in the case of discs encoded with ATRAC (rather than ATRAC3 or ATRAC3plus), that's AEA files, not OMA files.

Faster than real-time (much faster than real-time with my MZ-M200) and you get the original data, not a transcode or decompression.

[philipus]

Hello everybody

Thank you for the further replies. My apologies that it took a while to get back to this.

I've thought a bit more about it and decided to record to the MixPre's recorder. It's the easiest option with the gear I have.

So I'll pull the signal to channels 1 and 2 and record those. I'm wondering about fading though – should the channels be centred or panned left and right, respectively? My guess is centered given that the incoming right and left channels end up on their own recorded track, but I'd liek to be sure.

In terms of gain, would an average of -12dB be about ok?

Cheers and thank you in advance
Philip

[morst]

So I'll pull the signal to channels 1 and 2 and record those. I'm wondering about fading though – should the channels be centred or panned left and right, respectively? My guess is centered given that the incoming right and left channels end up on their own recorded track, but I'd liek to be sure.

I would record the ISO (isolated) tracks of ch 1 and ch 2, and NOT bother with the "mix track."
(in firmware 9.02 go to second page of home menu, to the Record menu, and the top left box gives control over Rec L,R, turn it off, or off + linked is fine too)
1 will be left, 2 will be right, it should give you stereo WAV files at your desired rate & depth.


As to record levels, if you can find the max level and make it come in just below -0.0 dB (digital full scale) that will be great.
You can leave a couple dB unused if you like, but I'd have peaks higher than -12dB.
In fact if it's not peaking occasionally above -6 dB, then you are not utilizing the final available bit of the recorder.
I figure once you're using that bit, you might as well use it a lot!


If you are talking about actual AVERAGE levels, trying to gauge those from meters which read peaks might be tricky.

[philipus]

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I am not recording the mix set to Off and just arm channels 5 and 6 so I'm happy to know that I did that right I take this to mean that I should leave the faders on 5 and 6 centred to not mess up the stereo image.

The peaks are tricky to find, I find (haha), but from what I've seen so far the red lines usually hover around 1/3 from -12 to 0. This is with gain set to 5. Interestingly enough the meters on the mix reach higher and are frequently red (but not past 0). To my ears the results sound good enough with a signal that lends itself to some EQ when listening, too.

It's a bit of work to split the WAVs and name the tracks but hey that's just fun stuff, really.

Cheers
Philip

[morst]

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I am not recording the mix set to Off and just arm channels 5 and 6 so I'm happy to know that I did that right I take this to mean that I should leave the faders on 5 and 6 centred to not mess up the stereo image.

The peaks are tricky to find, I find (haha), but from what I've seen so far the red lines usually hover around 1/3 from -12 to 0. This is with gain set to 5. Interestingly enough the meters on the mix reach higher and are frequently red (but not past 0). To my ears the results sound good enough with a signal that lends itself to some EQ when listening, too.

Depending on the recorder mode (basic, advanced, custom) the level and pan controls may not matter at all in regards to the ISO tracks you have coming in on channels 5-6 and which appear on WAV files as channels 1-2.


I'm in Custom mode on my Mixpre6 I and the level and pan controls only have anything to do with the Mix track. Recording to ISO is all about the Gain setting for each channel or pair of channels, when linked (I link stereo pairs.)


If the fader levels are not set to 0, then the mix track will show as a different level than the iso, but with the fader levels on 0, the mix track should show as the same level as the input track.
You can touch the level meters on the touch screen to toggle to the mode where you can see LR and channel inputs at the same time, if you are not there already.

[philipus]

Depending on the recorder mode (basic, advanced, custom) the level and pan controls may not matter at all in regards to the ISO tracks you have coming in on channels 5-6 and which appear on WAV files as channels 1-2.

I'm in Custom mode on my Mixpre6 I and the level and pan controls only have anything to do with the Mix track. Recording to ISO is all about the Gain setting for each channel or pair of channels, when linked (I link stereo pairs.)

If the fader levels are not set to 0, then the mix track will show as a different level than the iso, but with the fader levels on 0, the mix track should show as the same level as the input track.
You can touch the level meters on the touch screen to toggle to the mode where you can see LR and channel inputs at the same time, if you are not there already.

I'm using advanced mode for this and don't record the mix. Having done a bit more recording I'm now setting gain on ch 5 and ch 6 at closer to 10 to get peaks at about -6dB. But I adjust a bit for each disc of course.

See the screenshot about the difference in level on the LR mix vs channels 5 and 6. The mix is a lot louder. I have no gain set in the Record menu for the LR mix. If this difference would be due to the increased gain on ch 5 and ch 6 then I'd expect the same level to be reflected in their meters, or? It's not a big thing though. I'm happy with the recorded quality on the two channels. Still I'm curious as I'm learning the device.

Btw I'm recording this in 32-bit float at 96kHz which may be an overkill but I suppose it can't hurt as long as there's space on the card.

cheers
Philip

[lukpac]

I've thought a bit more about it and decided to record to the MixPre's recorder. It's the easiest option with the gear I have.

What MiniDisc machine(s) do you have?

[RyanJ]

I use a Mac as well and was able to consolidate my collection by pulling the raw data from the Minidisc via USB to my computer and converting the OMA files to WAV.

At the time I used linux-minidisc (https://wiki.physik.fu-berlin.de/linux-minidisc/doku.php?id=start) QHiMDTransfer (https://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/qhimdtransfer)....

However this looks to be the most updated version of those two apps in one - https://github.com/jyw321/MD-Project/blob/main/Hi-MD.md

I would suggest Web MiniDisc Pro:

https://webmd.pro/

It will extract the raw data from the MiniDiscs; in the case of discs encoded with ATRAC (rather than ATRAC3 or ATRAC3plus), that's AEA files, not OMA files.

Faster than real-time (much faster than real-time with my MZ-M200) and you get the original data, not a transcode or decompression.

This is the way. An unreal web tool for minidiscs.

[morst]

Btw I'm recording this in 32-bit float at 96kHz which may be an overkill but I suppose it can't hurt as long as there's space on the card.

From a digital source this does not sound like it will be helpful but who knows? I'd be inclined to stick with the original sample rate of each MD
Check the resultant files for audio above the original sampling range and see what kind of noise the analog transfer is inducing maybe? You should not find any program signal up there.