Topic: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)

[vwmule]

Saw this on a Facebook group.

https://youtu.be/MGebCVb1CUM

From Gotham listing (see link below)

"The Zoom F6 is an extremely compact recorder that uses the same preamps and time code generator as the rest of the F-series and adds dual A/D conveters and the ability to record 32-bit floating pointaudio files, as well as the standard 24-bit.

"The extra bits in the 32-bit file give the F6 the capacity to record an enormous dynamic range at high quality with amazing freedom to adjust gain in post, since everything from a shout to a whisper is stored with the same fidelity. The F6 can record simultaneous 24- and 32-bit files or either format singly.

"The F6 uses a single L-series battery which can run the unit for up to eight hours. It can also be powered by USB-C or AA batteries."

[H₂O]

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/f6-recorder

[Sebastian]

The 32-bit capability sounds awesome. However, why did they make it look like a real Zoomie? :-)

[heathen]

How, if at all, is the 32 bit capability helpful for those of us who record loud concerts (as opposed to film dialog, nature sounds, acoustic music, etc)?

[Sebastian]

How, if at all, is the 32 bit capability helpful for those of us who record loud concerts (as opposed to film dialog, nature sounds, acoustic music, etc)?

Not having to worry about setting levels sounds like the best thing since sliced bread to me. Especially for live shows where there's usually a lot of guesswork involved.

[vwmule]

> However, why did they make it look like a real Zoomie? :-)

Yeah, pretty ugly. Hopefully it would look better in person.

[Walstib62]

How, if at all, is the 32 bit capability helpful for those of us who record loud concerts (as opposed to film dialog, nature sounds, acoustic music, etc)?

There are reports of folks having issues with clipping, (or brickwalling, as some call it) at the recorder stage. This would at least eliminate clipping at that part of the recording chain.

[illconditioned]

Wow.  Looks like a drone controller.
Zoom is always innovating.
I have the Zoom F1.  My first one broke (usb connector), but it is so good I bough another.Likes: locking  1/8" mic connectors, phantom powerAlso acts as soundcard on USB.
Dislikes: USB connector breaks.  Now hotmeltglue'd into place.

[heathen]

How, if at all, is the 32 bit capability helpful for those of us who record loud concerts (as opposed to film dialog, nature sounds, acoustic music, etc)?

Not having to worry about setting levels sounds like the best thing since sliced bread to me. Especially for live shows where there's usually a lot of guesswork involved.

I guess I don't understand this.  How does it alleviate the need to set levels?

[jerryfreak]

How, if at all, is the 32 bit capability helpful for those of us who record loud concerts (as opposed to film dialog, nature sounds, acoustic music, etc)?

Not having to worry about setting levels sounds like the best thing since sliced bread to me. Especially for live shows where there's usually a lot of guesswork involved.

there is zero advantage to recording at 32 bit (192dB of data) vs 24 bit (144 dB of data). the best analog gear in the world is only approaching 21 bits (126 dB of data). Mics have less resolution than that.

you can already record with 24 bit and make nice recordings peaking at -30 to -20 dB with the right gear

now processing is a different animal, most DAWs use 32bit by default for that

[BonoBeats]

Curtis Judd has a brief interview from NAB:

https://youtu.be/MGebCVb1CUM

[Sebastian]

there is zero advantage to recording at 32 bit (192dB of data) vs 24 bit (144 dB of data). the best analog gear in the world is only approaching 21 bits (126 dB of data). Mics have less resolution than that.

you can already record with 24 bit and make nice recordings peaking at -30 to -20 dB with the right gear

The way I understand it the benefit is not only with the additional bits (which are useless in a traditional setup), but with the dual ADCs combined with them. From the video interview, I understand that they are running two ADCs at the same time for different sensitivity ranges and then combine both their outputs into a single 32 bit file, effectively yielding a higher bit depth than would be possible with a single ADC.

[EmRR]

I expect 32 bit to be useful at low levels, not really for high level gain setting.  32 bit does unchain you from any gain change constraints in post, you can crank up -50dBFS signals with little/no penalty. 

An F8n line input set to -10 gain will still clip at about -5.5dBFS with a line source, so the input stage is still the overload point rather than the converter.  

Running F8n on rock band instrument recordings, anything like a KM140 gain stages correctly set on line input at 0dB gain setting.  

[WiFiJeff]

So I watched the youtube videos, and I'm both enthused and confused.  One Zoom guy was saying that you can record one channel without gain and another with say 30 dB of gain, then normalize the files in post and you won't be able to tell the difference.  But then they are advertising the splendidness of their pre-amps, and I don't really get why you need any preamps at all.  Why build in the cost of these? 

I would have tended not to take this Zoom claim too seriously, but I have been using the 19-channel Zylia ZM-1 for about 5 months now, and that's also a mic system you use without any analog gain.  I laughed when I read the discussion of gain in the Zylia material:  if your recording is distorting because the source is too loud, move the ZM-1 sphere a few feet back from the instrument.  So we're back to the basics of more than a century ago, before the invention of electric recording.  Too loud?  Please move another foot or two back from the recording horn, Mr. Caruso.  When I pulled the 19 channels of a Zylia recording into Reaper, it looked like there was nothing there, but when I played it back with my Grace m900 set at 99, I heard the music.  I am still conditioned by 16 bit DAT machines to try to set levels accurately, back then adding 3-4 dB in post was a big deal; now with 24 bit recorders I routinely add up to 8 dB, maybe 12 dB at times.  With the Zylia recordings, even using their summed "virtual" mics or ambisonic B (first order only for me so far) output, I have to boost 20-30 dB.  The B format stuff is not as good as my Josephson C700S output (well, say under $50 per capsule for the ZM-1 vs. about $3000 per capsule for the C700S) but it's not actually really noisy for chamber music, I really hope a ZM-X comes along with next generation capsules etc.

So I'll likely be getting one of these F6s in June unless someone does a field test and flunks it.

Jeff

[jerryfreak]

I expect 32 bit to be useful at low levels, not really for high level gain setting.  32 bit does unchain you from any gain change constraints in post, you can crank up -50dBFS signals with little/no penalty. 

An F8n line input set to -10 gain will still clip at about -5.5dBFS with a line source, so the input stage is still the overload point rather than the converter. 

Running F8n on rock band instrument recordings, anything like a KM140 gain stages correctly set on line input at 0dB gain setting. 

If you’ve got some imaginary input with supersonic specs. Just because you’re recording at-50 dB  doesn’t mean the noise floor is not still around 115. No advantage over 24 bit