Topic: Getting a Roland R-05 ready for recording a gig.

[clover182]

Hi!

I have made a few posts here but have recently bought a Roland R-05 to use with the SP-CMC-2A and SP-SPSB-6 Battery Box.

The reason this recorder was appealing to me was due to its small size, battery life and a "line in" connection. Would anyone be able to provide some pointers on how to get it ready for a concert?

On the back it has three switches, where would I set these?:
- Mic Gain (L(ow) and H(igh))
- Limiter (Off and On))
- Low Cut (Off and On)

I know not to use the rehearsal mode which configures the sound levels (or so I believe). I also know to use the microphones with a battery box and through the line in port (I believe this makes the recording less likely to distort). I think I have read that you do not need to change levels as much using line in but could have read it wrong. I will be recording in both 24/48 and 24/96 onto a 32GB SD card (which should be arriving soon!).

In terms of other settings on the device.
In Input Select there is:
- "Plug-in-power" (I have it set to off as the battery box I assume provides that, and its plugged in in the mic plug)
- "Limiter/AGC" (Im not sure what to make of this one)
- "Low-cut frequency" (Either a choice of 100Hz, 200Hz or 400Hz)

Of course I will do more digging but wanted to get your guys' opinion.

Cheers!

[IMPigpen]

If I remember, when you plug into the "line in", it disables the "mic in".  But even so, I'd leave the three switches at:

-Mic Gain: Low
-Limiter: Off
-Low Cut: Off

For the input setting with your battery box line in, make sure plug-in power is off.
I'd leave the limiter/automatic gain control (AGC) off and the low-cut frequency off too.

You can run a high pass filter in post if you need to roll off the bass.

[Rairun]

I used the Roland R-05 a lot, but with CA-11 cards + a Church Audio preamp. I don't know how sensitive the SP-CMC-2A is in comparison with the CA-11s, but I had a little table to decide which gain setting to use:



Basically, since you're only using a battery box instead of an external pre-amp, I would NOT recommend LineIN unless your mics are considerably more sensitive than mine and/or the source material is extremely loud. With the CA-11s, I used +13 dB gain at the loudest show I've ever been to, so according to the table above the best possible setting in that scenario would be MicLO at 50 (same gain as but less self-noise than LineIN at 80). I don't recommend using anything under 20 because it causes some harmonic distortion.

In short, MicHI gain is cleaner than MicLO gain is cleaner than LineIN gain. How much gain you're going to need depends on your mics' sensitivity and how loud the music is going to be.

The numbers above are from my own testing, but they more or less agree with the ones found here: https://www.b4net.dk/posts/roland-r-05-technical-review/

[joeldotc]

Yeah when you plug into line in it disables the mic input. Use the settings which IMPigpen gave and follow what Rairun said too

Rehearsal mode isn’t necessary for live recording IMO.

Line in doesn’t mean that you’ll need to change you levels less per se, but there’s very little chance you’ll overload the recorder and get clipping when using the line in port correctly.

The R-05 will give -18 dB attenuation at 1/80 on line in, 0 dB is at 40/80, and +13 dB at 80/80. Since the SP-CMC-2 / AT831 have a sensitivity of -42 dB @ 94 dB SPL, at 40/80 (unity gain), you’ll be able to - in theory - handle SPLs up to 136 dB without clipping! If you think you’ll encounter sounds louder than that, set the level lower to attenuate your signal. If you’ll be recording quieter stuff that maxes out at for example 110 dB (approx the loudest an orchestra might be when recorded from a normal distance) you could set the levels to 80/80 without risk of clipping - Ill show the calculations below. 

Signal Voltage = -42 + (110-94) = -26 dB. Gain = +13 dB @ 80/80 -> output signal = -26 + 13 dB = -13 dB…. so , at 110 dB SPL, you would expect peaks at -13 dB using these mics, at 80/80, with the line in port. If you wanted to have higher peaks, closer to around -3dB, you’d want to use the mic in port instead (with Plug-in-power off!) since it can provide higher gain.

At -42 dB sensitivity and 1/80 line in input levels, you’ll be able to handle SPL of up to approx 156 dB. Of course, at this high of SPL the mics would be experiencing lots of distortion since they are only rated for 130 dB SPL.

Like Rairun said, you may actually want to use the mic input to achieve higher gain, better EIN, and ensure that the quietest sounds you record are louder than the noise floor of the recorder. Also definitely check out the link Rairun included in their post - that’s where I was getting my numbers from.

If anyone who is smarter than me can correct my math, please do so and let me know where I went wrong! I am pretty much running off a very basic satellite communication engineering course I took during my undergrad.

Edit to add: the R-05 reaches its 0 dBFS (clipping) point at -0.6 dBu - in my calcs I assumed that the 0 dBFS point was at 0 dBu, which I think is close enough to use for these sort of calculations. With other recorders you would need to consider their 0 dBFS point.

[clover182]

Cheers everyone for the brilliant information. Its a massive help and Im glad you guys assisted, preventing me from having a fucked recording haha

Configured the settings to what everyone has said:

RECORDING:
 On the back:
   Mic Gain: L
   Limiter: Off
   Low Cut: Off

 Device Settings:
   Plug-In-Power: Off
   Recording Format: 24/96 or 24/48
   Limiter/AGC: Limiter
   Low Frequency Cut: 100Hz

I will buy a fresh 9V Duracell Battery and bring a spare one.
I will also take in two spare AA Batteries with two fresh ones in the recorder.

Joeldotc, Rairun, and IMpigpen - thanks again for the information 

[clover182]

Thought I would weight my option of the device after properly using it. Very good! - I have made the main part of each line bold for quick access

- Its compact size meant that I could store it both on me during the shows, and hidden when going through security. Furthermore, for me at least, the ports being on the top meant I could plug in the battery box and have the mics on my hat without
  them dragging down - though some people don't like this.
- The switches on the back (Mic Gain, Limiter and Low Cut) stayed in the positions throughout the show without anything holding them, that being said the audio recorder was not in my pocket so Im not sure how it is on that front
- Running on two new Duracell Simple AA Batteries, it lasted at least 7 hours recording perfectly fine (I turned it off between sets) and only dropped down 1 out of the 4 bars. I was recording in 24/96 for the last 3 acts, the rest it was either 16/44.1
  or 16/48 or 24/48
- I had contrast on 1 and backlight on off, which made the battery last longer but did fuck me over into the night, as you can read a bit later on
- I made sure that I could save as much power as possible
- With the same DC IN wire I used for the camcorder (it was USB > DC IN > Power bank) , I found I could power the audio recorder, it seemed to be ok but I didn't do it much incase it was bad for the batteries (I don't think it did any damage though)
- I recorded 5 minutes using the internal mics for Seb Lowe, and artist who I didn't really care about, I was recording it while scranning (eating) some of the food there so had it in some weird positions, but definitely usable with the internals

Failures on my part
- My paranoia about the battery cooking itself during the day meant I had my contrast and backlight off, this was all well and good, but with the pitch black evening, it meant I had to ask my mate to shine his phone torch on my R-05 screen. This
  helped of course but it also meant I couldn't tell as easily tell if the recorder was running or not. The only way I knew was the ring around the record button which was flashing red, although I didn't know it had paused the first time. This isn't an
  issue with the hold down on the power button, but when I was adjusting the input (which I didn't even need to do anyways), I had to turn off the hold.
- I wish I had recorded in 24/96 for all of the acts, although that is external in-terms of the recorder, and more down to me, but I didn't record anything in lossy - that is just plain retardation - I have read 16/44.1 is completely fine in 2024 for
  recording concerts though, probably what most phones can do quality wise.

For recommendation from myself and many others, just set levels, hold, and enjoy the show! Any specific questions just ask although my knowledge is fairly limited.