Topic: SAMPLES: using (2) mono Zoom F2 recorders to make a "stereo" stealth recording

[Chanher]

After my personal disappointment in the Deity PR-2 eliminating 32FP in stereo mode, I wanted to try using (2) mono Zoom F2's to make a "stereo" stealth recording. This method is certainly not ideal; you're not only creating more work in post but possibly introducing time arrival discrepancies after aligning the 2 separate sources in post.

With that being said, I really just wanted to do this for myself, but Gut also mentioned he was curious about my findings so I figured I'd post my results here. I ran Zoom LMF-2 omni mics (the tiny lapel mics that are included with F2 purchases) into each F2, they were in a mesh hat right above my ears. Kind of a semi-binaural recording technique. Recorded in 32FP/48kHz format.

Here is a fairly quiet indie/jazz band at a small jazz club:
https://samply.app/p/igVJlt2b253J9YKIFibt

-Since I was really close to the left side of the stage where the bass player was located, the first RAW sample is unedited (except for a small level adjustment) but quite bass heavy. So the 2nd track has a simple bass cut. The 3rd track has some fairly extensive mastering done to it.
-I was right under the left PA speaker, so this is kind of a stack tape but with a lot of actual stage sound mixed in. I was probably 15-18ft. from the stage.
-I personally really like this recording, especially after some mastering. You get clear vocals from being right under the PA speaker but all kinds of good onstage sound.


Here is a classical performance, string quartet with vocalist:
https://samply.app/p/j7ZlylvnyTwmoGDOVdcw

-The first sample is RAW except for a level adjustment. The 2nd is the exact same but in it's native format (32fp/48kHz) and the 3rd has just a little bit of mastering (not much TBH).
-I was DFC about 7 rows back, right around the sweet spot of the room IMO.


Before each recording, in the car, I clicked a dog clicker DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF MY NOSE (so it was an equal distance from each mic) to make a peak in the wav file so I could line them up in post (see pic below). I also did another click in the car after the show, just in case there was any digital drift in the sources. I had previously posted that I was not seeing any drift when using Zoom F3 and F6 recorders simultaneously. HOWEVER, I am seeing the slightest amount of drift between the 2 F2 recorders. The drift was very minimal, only when you zoomed all the way in could you see a slight variance in the post-show wav peaks (after lining up the pre-show peaks). So I simply did a stretch on one of the tracks and now both pre-show and post-show peaks are lined up to the precision you see in the pic below.


THOUGHTS:
-This method may just be for me haha. If you don't want to line up (and stretch) sources in post, just skip this thread. Hopefully a tiny stereo 32FP with 5v PiP recorder is available soon. But I also believe TRUE stealthers will be just fine with the PR-2 in 24-bit mode; they have the skills to predict levels, or make quick level changes when the show starts. The real stealthers are excellent under pressure and don't have to rely on 32fp like my dumbass. *shrugs* If you have problems or criticism's with this dual-mono technique, feel free to post them, that's what discourse is for. I still want to hear (more) samples of the PR-2.

-I simply have a lot of non-critical (quiet music) stealth situations where it's so easy for me to put an F2 in each pocket, hit record in the car, and not worry the rest of the night. I will have some classical concerts where I'll be required to dress nice, and I think the LMF-2 mics in the shirt collar, with an F2 in each jacket pocket will work great for me. I'll be sitting with people who provided tickets and are probably not pro-taping, so to be able to blindly record without checking levels in kind of a big deal to me.

-Since the F2 is 2.5v PiP, it will require a battery box for louder shows. Obviously this takes the simplicity out of this setup, but I already have a Y cable to run out of the batt box and into the recorders. This is where a PR-2 is clearly superior with 5v PiP.

-I believe the F2's are slightly smaller than a PR-2. They will run ~10 hours on AAA rechargeables, have a locking 1/8 input, and hold function. I occasionally see these on Marketplace for around $150, although I got my last one for $100. If you're patient you might be able to find a couple of these for $200-250 total. These are the non-bluetooth versions which are a little cheaper.

-I can't tell if the F2 preamps are the same as F3's and F6's. They do sound good though IMO and ultimately I think I proved you can make good recordings with this setup. Are they true stereo? I'm open to opinions.

[fanofjam]

Are they true stereo?

Yes.

[Ozpeter]

Very interesting.  As I recall it I have wondered in the past what such a setup would sound like.  It seems to work very well.  How well?  I guess it would be necessary to try alternative rigs at the same time, which ain't going to happen!   Certainly it's absolutely fine for your own purposes, having the chance to hear live performances a second time.

[unidentified]

If it sounds good, it is good.

[Chanher]

Are they true stereo?

Yes.

I agree. Any sound to the right of me will hit the right mic before the left mic, introducing the time arrival differences that are by definition "stereo". As long as my dog clicker is centered and equal distance from each mic (I took care to make sure the dog clicker was directly in front of my nose) then the time arrival difference should at least exist, after aligning/stretching. Whether it's as precise as a stereo recorder with a single word clock....

Very interesting.  As I recall it I have wondered in the past what such a setup would sound like.  It seems to work very well.  How well?  I guess it would be necessary to try alternative rigs at the same time, which ain't going to happen!

Actually I think this is the next step I'm going to try, just for kicks. I'm going to try running at853rx omni's > F3 in the same hat as LMF-2 omni's > dual F2's, with all the capsules directly above/below each other.  We'll see if there's a difference in the stereo image but I don't think I'll hear a difference *shrugs*

If it sounds good, it is good.

How often we forget this when we over-analyze this hobby. To go along with that: If it's fun, it is good. Messing around with gear and techniques is always gonna be fun to me.

My friend plays in the band from the first sample I linked and I didn't tell them I was going to record. When I showed them the recording after, they were soooo pumped. Worth it.

[adrianb]

Thanks for this Chanher. Like you I feel my stealth skills are inadequate and like to keep my setup as simple as possible, preferring to start recording before entering a venue and not looking at it until pressing stop on leaving the venue.

I had really high hopes for the Deity PR-2 and after months of waiting it was a crushing disappointment when the stereo 32-bit feature was ditched. I did briefly consider buying two of them and use them in precisely the same manner that you have used a pair of F2s, the advantage being the 5V PIP voltage. I dismissed that idea because I’m still annoyed with Deity’s decision to remove the 32-bit function and didn’t want to reward them with two purchases instead of one.

I hope the perfect recorder arrives soon, and feel it will, and in the meantime my favourite stealth recorder, which enables me to keep things simple, is the Roland R-07. The ability to use a safety track means I’ve not had a failure yet.

[unidentified]

Duke Elington, 1932, in stereo https://www.chicagotribune.com/1985/06/30/1932-duke-ellington-stereo-was-it-unheard-of-experiment-or-accident/

[Ozpeter]

^ More on this type of early stereo sound can be read here - https://d2me0q24x7p585.cloudfront.net/748871326125.pdf

And here - stereo from pairs of wax cyclinder machines from 1901 - https://griffonagedotcom.wordpress.com/2020/04/28/berthold-laufers-chinese-stereo-recordings-of-1901/

The first link mentions early recordings by Yehudi Menuhin - one of the high points of my professional recording career was being asked to go to his house and to record him describing his early days of recording violin works.  This was in connection with his 80th birthday celebrations.   I don't recall any particular discussion of early, or even accidental, stereo sound as such, but at the end of the recording of his memories, he came across the room (his practice room, what an honour it was to spend a couple of hours just with him and myself in that room!) and asked about the recording equipment, which was an HHB Portadat.  I could not help remarking to him how amazing it was to have been using a (then) modern digital audio recorder to record him talking about his early days recording on wax discs!  As I recall it, I captured his spoken recollections in stereo.  Heh!  I can't find any reference to the resulting CD on the Biddulph label online.  But I do have a copy myself (at another house).

Yet again I am drifting off-topic...

[unidentified]

Some years ago, around the same time I became aware of the stereo Ellington recordings from 1932, I became aware of the first efforts to do the same with random mono audience recordings, most notably this 1970 Hendrix show - https://youtu.be/vNYyqOlBbbs?si=-G-tKLpj07t2AD5x

[Chanher]

Awesome links guys, I'm loving it.

[unidentified]

You can't have too many recordings of a show--all the more grist for the mill in terms of mixing and/or matrixing experiments!