Topic: multiple channels & tracks like professional studios

[kyserkess]

I want to know how these professional studios with 100 channels are their sound boards are recording on multiple tracks. Can this be one on a DAT recorder, or anything other than a computer? And then can it be imported or recorded into a computer? Like, when you see a recording engineer from the 60's playing an original recording, he can turn down the drums, or even just a cymbol, and create a new mix today. How can I setup my studio this way? Thanks so much!

[Brian Skalinder]

While TS focuses primarily on field recording, you may receive some answers here.  You might also consider checking out gearslutz.com, which seems to focus more on home studio.

[TNJazz]

Actually, I would start with http://www.homerecording.com before Gearslutz.

Sounds like you need to acquire some basic knowledge and understanding first, and GS can be a little clique-y and hard on the newbies.

To answer your questions, it cannot be done on a DAT recorder.  Yes it can be done without a computer, if you have an affinity for analog multitracking on reels.  These days it's mostly all computers though.

Check out HomeRecording and there are a number of folks there who can get you started.

[Brian Skalinder]

Actually, I would start with http://www.homerecording.com before Gearslutz.

Even better...didn't know about that one. 

[rastasean]

Homerecording.com is a great place but don't forget recording.org

Truthfully, I find TS far better to read about recorders, microphones, cables, clamps, stands, etc than the other forums. The other sites seem to have a ton of info on insulation and sound proofing a room for recording bands--which is needed but not really for us.

good luck with the learning!

[kcmule]

To answer your questions, it cannot be done on a DAT recorder.  Yes it can be done without a computer, if you have an affinity for analog multitracking on reels.  These days it's mostly all computers though.

You could use an HD24 if you don't have reels.

[SmokinJoe]

Your question is about as open ended as "How to I build a race car which will go 300mph?"  There is no single answer.

If you want a simple answer for "what do the big boys use?", it's probably "ProTools HD" which goes to 32 or 48 channels.  I've never actually heard of anyone with 100 channels.  This is very expensive, dedicated hardware.  If you have a budget of $50,000 this is a good option.

In a studio, most music is built in layers.... there are drum tracks, and vocal tracks, and guitar tracks, which may be different musicians on different days.  Then they get layered together.  So you are really only recording a few tracks at once, but you need a big computer for mixing.  With Live music, it all happens at once, so you need a lot of tracks to record the individuals.

If you can get by with 8 to 16 tracks, there are dozens of different USB and Firewire boxes which can hook to a computer, and that's probably the cheapest way out.   If you already have a good computer, you can do this for under $1000.  If you need 24 or 32 channels, you pile a few boxes of 8 channels each in front of a bigger computer.

I have a 24 channel recording rig based on an Alesis HD24.  I use it for live shows... I prefer this "big recorder" to a PC setup while the show is going on.  With half decent preamps to go in front of it, this is probably $2000.  Then generally people will transfer it to a computer and work with it there.  In theory you can sync 4 of these together for 96 channels, I just don't know anyone who does it.

[kirk97132]

We recently synce two hd24 with 3 DR-680's but that a whole different story for another thread.   

I agree that the OP needs to get some basic knowledge about multitracking.  IT goes far beyond the "how do I record 100 channels"  like Joe said the question is too general and opened ended.

[Javier Cinakowski]

FWIW, the comment above about not being able to use DAT for multitrack is not entirely true...  The ADAT (Alesis Digital Audio Tape) format was quiet popular and is still used in studios.  The linked machines could record up to 128 tracks...  So, technically it isn't the same media as the Sony D8 DAT tapes, but I don't think that is what the OP was asking...   

The OP's question was "Can this be done on a DAT recorder, or anything other than a computer?,"   

Yes, it can, using old analog reels or ADAT tapes.... 

[Javier Cinakowski]

or for that matter it can be done using a digital multitrack recorder...  A computer is not needed, but I can't imagine doing post processing work without one...

[kyserkess]

I would like to record a grand piano with 4 microphones, 6 singers with 6 microphones, bass guitar & electric guitar with 2 microphones, a drum set with 9 microphones, and some synths with additional channels. With a sound board, the recording is still two channels. I want to be able to go back and mix down each recording differently, so that the levels can be adjusted depending upon the song type, yet all live. Of course, I don't expect to completely mute a channel out because there is so much spillover in a live settings, but I do want to add EQ and FX to channels after the recording. It seems to me that these large sound boards can be used for recording AND mixdowns, so the question is, how do I rig this?

I will try the recommended forums as well. I really appreciate everyone's replies. I have used multitrack recorders for a long time and have had my fair share of recordings, but certainly not with real professional equipment. I don't necessarily need 32 tracks going directly into my computer, especially if I can save thousands of dollars by using another recording format. I don't like how ProTools has cornered the computer market either. ProTools is a bit more rigid than other means of production.

Your question is about as open ended as "How to I build a race car which will go 300mph?"  There is no single answer.

If you want a simple answer for "what do the big boys use?", it's probably "ProTools HD" which goes to 32 or 48 channels.  I've never actually heard of anyone with 100 channels.  This is very expensive, dedicated hardware.  If you have a budget of $50,000 this is a good option.

In a studio, most music is built in layers.... there are drum tracks, and vocal tracks, and guitar tracks, which may be different musicians on different days.  Then they get layered together.  So you are really only recording a few tracks at once, but you need a big computer for mixing.  With Live music, it all happens at once, so you need a lot of tracks to record the individuals.

If you can get by with 8 to 16 tracks, there are dozens of different USB and Firewire boxes which can hook to a computer, and that's probably the cheapest way out.   If you already have a good computer, you can do this for under $1000.  If you need 24 or 32 channels, you pile a few boxes of 8 channels each in front of a bigger computer.

I have a 24 channel recording rig based on an Alesis HD24.  I use it for live shows... I prefer this "big recorder" to a PC setup while the show is going on.  With half decent preamps to go in front of it, this is probably $2000.  Then generally people will transfer it to a computer and work with it there.  In theory you can sync 4 of these together for 96 channels, I just don't know anyone who does it.

[dlh]

I would like to record a grand piano with 4 microphones, 6 singers with 6 microphones, bass guitar & electric guitar with 2 microphones, a drum set with 9 microphones, and some synths with additional channels. With a sound board, the recording is still two channels. I want to be able to go back and mix down each recording differently, so that the levels can be adjusted depending upon the song type, yet all live. Of course, I don't expect to completely mute a channel out because there is so much spillover in a live settings, but I do want to add EQ and FX to channels after the recording. It seems to me that these large sound boards can be used for recording AND mixdowns, so the question is, how do I rig this?

I will try the recommended forums as well. I really appreciate everyone's replies. I have used multitrack recorders for a long time and have had my fair share of recordings, but certainly not with real professional equipment. I don't necessarily need 32 tracks going directly into my computer, especially if I can save thousands of dollars by using another recording format. I don't like how ProTools has cornered the computer market either. ProTools is a bit more rigid than other means of production.

Your question is about as open ended as "How to I build a race car which will go 300mph?"  There is no single answer.

If you want a simple answer for "what do the big boys use?", it's probably "ProTools HD" which goes to 32 or 48 channels.  I've never actually heard of anyone with 100 channels.  This is very expensive, dedicated hardware.  If you have a budget of $50,000 this is a good option.

In a studio, most music is built in layers.... there are drum tracks, and vocal tracks, and guitar tracks, which may be different musicians on different days.  Then they get layered together.  So you are really only recording a few tracks at once, but you need a big computer for mixing.  With Live music, it all happens at once, so you need a lot of tracks to record the individuals.

If you can get by with 8 to 16 tracks, there are dozens of different USB and Firewire boxes which can hook to a computer, and that's probably the cheapest way out.   If you already have a good computer, you can do this for under $1000.  If you need 24 or 32 channels, you pile a few boxes of 8 channels each in front of a bigger computer.

I have a 24 channel recording rig based on an Alesis HD24.  I use it for live shows... I prefer this "big recorder" to a PC setup while the show is going on.  With half decent preamps to go in front of it, this is probably $2000.  Then generally people will transfer it to a computer and work with it there.  In theory you can sync 4 of these together for 96 channels, I just don't know anyone who does it.

Adding to what SmokinJoe said:
You need 21 channels.  You said you've used multitrack recorders.  Of what type?
If the sound board has them, you patch each "direct out" of the desired channels into the multitrack recorder.
If the board doesn't have direct outs on each channel then you can't use it for multitracking.
There must be a chain for each mic:  mic - pre - converter(if digital recorder) - recorder.
The HD24 SmokinJoe speaks of has 24 converters (no pres) so you would patch direct out of each mic channel into each line in on the HD24.
Recording interfaces contain mic pres and converters and typically connect to computers via usb,firewire, or adat.  Rack mounted units are usually 8 channels.
Some sound boards with many more channels have converters and then usb connections to a computer. (don't know if the usb out is multitrack or just a mix)
In any case, once the signal is recorded digitally, it can be imported into digital audio workstation software of your choice.
Of course, efficiency-wise, it's less time consuming to track to the computer if you're going to end up in a daw anyway.
The studio I've worked in uses outboard pres for tracking into an HD24. (using its converters).
Mixdowns can be done through the daw (by importing) or through an analog console (using the HD24 converters-out).
It's a little clumsy getting digital tracks out of the HD24 because the files system is proprietary. (but the HD24 is a very solid dependable piece of gear)

Hope this is the kind of info you're looking for.
Dave

[DSatz]

Just to answer the original question, before the use of digital workstations there were (first) analog and (later) digital multi-track tape recorders. Up to 24 tracks could be recorded on 2" analog tape (going to Google Images and searching on "Studer A800"), and 48 tracks were eventually possible with a digital multi-track (try searching Google Images for "Sony PCM-3348").