Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: acidjack on July 23, 2009, 10:38:54 AM
-
I've read the very long and informative post about equipment for a balcony clamp and think I am all set in that department, but I have a placement question.
For a balcony where it is a standing-only balcony (i.e., you stand at/lean over the edge) with metal slats running from rail to floor (specifically, the Bowery Ballroom in NYC), and where you're not allowed to go vertical with the mics/obstruct anyone's view, would it make sense to put the clamp + extension arm down at foot level? That seems to make logical sense to me as it would get the mics the farthest away from any talking noise, and with a horizontally extending arm that would push the mics further away from such issues. Is there some reason I am missing that this is not the way to go? I have a Bogen C clamp, a short extension arm, and now one of those 2-part arms (this guy: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm_2.html).
Mics will be AKG ck93 hyper actives on a custom kwon bar in a shockmount, so not a ton of weight to be concerned about.
-
I don't see any problem with it as long as you've put your head down close to there and verified it sounds decent. I might suggest putting some shock mounts on your mount in case of stompers. The only thing I could see really getting you is people stomping, both vibration wise and ambient sound of feet stomping at the level of your mics.
J
-
I have never been in the room you are talking about. However, I tape is a similar situation (Revolution Hall in Troy, NY) all the time. I clamp to the railing with a small clamp and never bothered with a extension arm. Others do but I can't imagine it makes an audible difference (with an open railing). I put the clamp as low as I can go. Never had an issue with balcony related noise when using shock mounts. If someone slams the railing hard enough shock mounts and a boom arm won't help because you can hear the bang not just feel it. I think the crowd noise comes from the lower level in front of the mics not from up and behind the mics on the balcony especially with hypers. I have had people on the railing screaming and with loud music it's not an issue on the recording. Normally there is not a lot of foot traffic at the balcony railing. Unless the person is dancing in wooden shoes people walking should not show up over loud music.
Photos:http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/573697884bAGfPM (http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/573697884bAGfPM)
I am running XY with two clamps in the first photo and DIN with one clamp in the second photo.
-
I have never been in the room you are talking about. However, I tape is a similar situation (Revolution Hall in Troy, NY) all the time. I clamp to the railing with a small clamp and never bothered with a extension arm. Others do but I can't imagine it makes an audible difference (with an open railing). I put the clamp as low as I can go. Never had an issue with balcony related noise when using shock mounts. If someone slams the railing hard enough shock mounts and a boom arm won't help because you can hear the bang not just feel it. I think the crowd noise comes from the lower level in front of the mics not from up and behind the mics on the balcony especially with hypers. I have had people on the railing screaming and with loud music it's not an issue on the recording. Normally there is not a lot of foot traffic at the balcony railing. Unless the person is dancing in wooden shoes people walking should not show up over loud music.
Photos:http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/573697884bAGfPM (http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/573697884bAGfPM)
I am running XY with two clamps in the first photo and DIN with one clamp in the second photo.
Thank you - that's very helpful. That DIN shot is exactly what I was thinking of doing and looks like exact same setup as I am thinking about. Plan would be to run hypers most likely. My mics are mounted in a kwon bar in a shock mount, so a little vibration shouldn't be an issue.
-
Glad I could help. I love recording from this spot. No stand to worry about, gear is safe, sounds great, and it's the best seat in the house. Only issue is getting to the spot first. In Troy this spot gets taken real quick.
-
Be aware of what is below. I once clamped out from the balcony at floor level at a club in Dallas. I didn't check what was below and I have a nice recording of the folks below ordering drinks and the usual small talk of people standing at a bar with the band not nearly as prominent as I wish.
-
From what I've heard/read, clamping from the balcony is the way to go at the Bowery Ballroom. What you described (clamp with extension pole) is the way I always clamp to balconies if possible -- clamp as low as possible and put out an extension arm about 3 ft out. I put it lower to minimize the crowd noise of people up in the balcony, which have greater potential to ruin your tapes in my opinion and experience. Usually the people on the floor are low enough to not have such tape ruining potential. Of course, YMMV. Good luck, I wish I had gotten tickets for the NIN show too!
-
From what I've heard/read, clamping from the balcony is the way to go at the Bowery Ballroom. What you described (clamp with extension pole) is the way I always clamp to balconies if possible -- clamp as low as possible and put out an extension arm about 3 ft out. I put it lower to minimize the crowd noise of people up in the balcony, which have greater potential to ruin your tapes in my opinion and experience. Usually the people on the floor are low enough to not have such tape ruining potential. Of course, YMMV. Good luck, I wish I had gotten tickets for the NIN show too!
Do you have a 3ft bar you recommend? I bought the articulated arm (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm_2.html) + a shorter one (this guy: http://www.opticsplanet.net/bogen-manfrotto-extension-arm-with-3094-stud.html) but am not sure I found a good 3ft one. Or should these two pretty much cover it?
-
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8cf28b3127ccec5c62b45d93700000040O09YasmzNqD28-Ag/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
-
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8cf28b3127ccec5c62b45d93700000040O09YasmzNqD28-Ag/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
nice pole. any details on how it all fits together? looks to me like it is going straight into the superclamp. i carry two clamps to get at that.
-
I shot ya a pm for details but yes do share as this is exactly what I am needing.. is it just a boom arm attached to a clamp?
if so what arm is that pictured?
/edit for terrible drawing
(http://neilyboy.mtco.com/pics/whatineed.jpg)
I have been wanting something like this for awhile now but never knew what to get or where to look.. I have been to a few shows lately and left my gear in the car as there was no place to put up a full stand.. I saw backyard tire fire at a little hole in the wall called Knickerbockers recently. They came out and laid down one sweet show. The opening jam was the best I have ever seen. I was so mad that I could not find a place to setup. It was a junk venue with nothing but tables and booths.. If I had something like this I could have setup at the lip of my table. So it is deff my next purchase.
Take care and I dont mean to hi-jack the thread but was also interested in this setup!
Neil
-
guess I should have opened this bottle of home-made wine a customer gave me earlier haha.. it got me searching around a bit.. i think I found exactly what I need!
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/329238.html
with the set I posted a link to am I able to attach those booms to one another.. can I hook them all together making a total of 39" ??
Neil
-
Neil, this recently resurrected thread has some other options you might be interested in.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,110425.0.html
-
flipp I can not thank you enough! This is EXACTLY what I have been looking for! I am ordering as soon as I get done typing this!
/Edit
and its purchased haha
Matthews MALSEEB
Telescopic Baby Stand Extension - 18 - 54"
Sub Total
28.50
Shipping
5.60
Total
34.10
Neil
-
flipp I can not thank you enough! This is EXACTLY what I have been looking for! I am ordering as soon as I get done typing this!
/Edit
and its purchased haha
Matthews MALSEEB
Telescopic Baby Stand Extension - 18 - 54"
Sub Total
28.50
Shipping
5.60
Total
34.10
Neil
Ditto, this thing was exactly what I was looking for to complete my setup!
-
This set up worked out real well for extending out and gettting a little lower. Always remember to use a safety cable to protect your equipment and people's heads from damage ;D
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,112075.0.html
-
This set up worked out real well for extending out and gettting a little lower. Always remember to use a safety cable to protect your equipment and people's heads from damage ;D
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,112075.0.html
not being a trey fan I hadn't seen that set of pics before; thanks for the link
and thanks for the info on the Matthews extension as well as the pics in the post I linked above
-
not being a trey fan I hadn't seen that set of pics before; thanks for the link
we all can't be perfect ;)
-
This set up worked out real well for extending out and gettting a little lower. Always remember to use a safety cable to protect your equipment and people's heads from damage ;D
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,112075.0.html
what is a good type of safety cable to use?
-
I made my own out of picture frame wire used to hang heavy pieces of art. You can find it at any hardware store. I cut the desired length and make loops on each side, twisting the cable many times (Like a hangman's noose) and securing with gaffer's tape. Then you can use mini clips like rock climber's use, don't know the name.
or you can buy one like this......
http://www.markertek.com/Lighting-Background-Effects/Lighting-Safety-Cables.xhtml
-
Do you have a 3ft bar you recommend?
I also have the Bogen articulating arm (the 3 arm version) but don't use it that often (too messy looking for me). Instead I mostly use this short Bogen extension pole:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/612763-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_1122B_POLE_f_BACKLIGHT_STAND_18_29_.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/612763-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_1122B_POLE_f_BACKLIGHT_STAND_18_29_.html)
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/612763.jpg)
It's nice and simple and sticks out a decent distance for balcony clamping, and also comes with 5/8" studs on both ends, which makes it easy to attach to my superclamp.
-
be sure and check out this thread:
My Versatile Extension Pole - With Pics (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,110425.0.html)
and check out this extension pole mentioned in the post:
Matthews Telescopic Baby Stand Extension - 18 - 54" (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33185-REG/Matthews_429499_Telescopic_Baby_Stand_Extension.html)
Its the same price as the bogen but it reaches much higher than the Bogen...
I love bogen but sometimes I don't need to have the best stuff they have like an extension pole that only goes up 30".
I don't care if you do get it or not but just be aware there are other options.
Peace
-
I love bogen but sometimes I don't need to have the best stuff they have like an extension pole that only goes up 30".
I wouldn't use the short extension pole to go vertical either, just out horizontally from a balcony clamp (which was the OP's question).
-
Thanks for the thread. I don't get that many opportunities to run from a balcony nowadays. +T. ;D