Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: Wiesel on September 03, 2011, 06:50:29 AM
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Hey guys,
I'm currently working on my diploma thesis in computer science which is about automatic audio track alignment, time drift corrections and everything you need to perfectly line up recordings from different sources that where made at the same time and at the same place. I have developed (but far from finished) a software where you put a few tracks in, press a button, and it automatically recognizes matching/overlapping points in different audio tracks and aligns them accordingly (no more messing around in Sony Vegas ;) ). What I'd like to ask you now:
Can you think of any shows with many sources available (at least 4), that are freely available on the internet? Preferably archive.org or any other site where I can get them without much hassle. It doesn't matter where they are sourced from, be it cell phones, good mic/recorder combos or the soundboard - the more different the sources are, the better.
I already have a few test cases from my own live recordings collection, but I thought you were the right people and it would be nice if you could recommend me some more :)
Thanks!
ps: Does anyone happen to know a website like the Live Music Archive, but for speeches (e.g. Obama inauguration)?
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intriguing idea. Can a program like this align different recordings IE: a vocal track, a snare drum track, kick drum track, bass guitar and an electric guitar track?
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No that's not possible - there must be more or less "the same" content in all of the tracks for the program to detect sync points (e.g. PA sound on audience recordings).
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i would love to try this software, would make my life much easier
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if you want some audio to test:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-browse.php?search=%22iron+maiden%22&cat=0&searchscope=
there are tons of multiple iron maiden sources there, just grab some. I would search for sydney 2011 iron maiden, there are atleast 5+ sources
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Let me know when/if this software becomes available please!
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Unfortunately it will still take some months until I will be ready to distribute something for you to play with. It's currently just a development prototype which in some cases works perfectly, and in some not at all. That's the reason I need more shows with different sources available to test and eventually figure out what the reason is.
thanks for the maiden hint, looks promising!
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There are 6 sources for this North Miss. Allstars show:
http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=520033
Links to the LMA pages are at the bottom.
If you go to db.etree.org and click on each year, you can see quite a few shows with multiple sources (and the links to the LMA pages). I've kept it up pretty well for the past few years.
http://db.etree.org/db/shows/browse/artist_key/374
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Hey guys,
I'm currently working on my diploma thesis in computer science which is about automatic audio track alignment, time drift corrections and everything you need to perfectly line up recordings from different sources that where made at the same time and at the same place. I have developed (but far from finished) a software where you put a few tracks in, press a button, and it automatically recognizes matching/overlapping points in different audio tracks and aligns them accordingly (no more messing around in Sony Vegas ;) ). What I'd like to ask you now:
Can you think of any shows with many sources available (at least 4), that are freely available on the internet? Preferably archive.org or any other site where I can get them without much hassle. It doesn't matter where they are sourced from, be it cell phones, good mic/recorder combos or the soundboard - the more different the sources are, the better.
I already have a few test cases from my own live recordings collection, but I thought you were the right people and it would be nice if you could recommend me some more :)
Thanks!
ps: Does anyone happen to know a website like the Live Music Archive, but for speeches (e.g. Obama inauguration)?
Is this something that you might publish under an open source style license...?
Also curious if the software you are developing would be a stand alone editor - or work as a plug in with some of the common editors?
Just curious as I think you'd need it to do a few other things besides time sync...to make it useful beyond your proof of concept.
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There are 6 sources for this North Miss. Allstars show
thanks, much appreciated!
Is this something that you might publish under an open source style license...?
Also curious if the software you are developing would be a stand alone editor - or work as a plug in with some of the common editors?
Just curious as I think you'd need it to do a few other things besides time sync...to make it useful beyond your proof of concept.
At first I wanted to implement it as a plugin to work with various editors but unfortunately the only widespread interface, VST, is limited to always process a single track. Therefore I developed a custom editor from scratch so I can work on the algorithms - but this is just for the proof of concept and to be honest, I have no idea yet if, and what this is going to result in. All I can say is that Taperssection gave me the inspiration to this idea some years ago, and under the assumption that it works out as planned and there'll be a useable result (which isn't sure at all and just speculation yet), I'll make a free software available - but I also have to admit that I think this is something I could make a few bucks with, so I do not think I'll put it under an open source license.
What do you think needs to be adressed besides time sync? I can think of phase/interference issues, but you can always manually adjust it between the automatic time alignment and the final render. The initial idea was to replace the annoying sync job that I was doing with Sony Vegas, especially if the time drift between the recordings isn't linear and you have to cut the tracks into pieces and stretch/shrink/align them one by one.
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If a small bit of user control is ever desired, your final design could include a "tone" control for each of the sources, so the user could equalize each source......pre-matrix.
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I have developed (but far from finished) a software where you put a few tracks in, press a button, and it automatically recognizes matching/overlapping points in different audio tracks and aligns them accordingly (no more messing around in Sony Vegas ;) ).
Any idea how this compares to the one available in Izotope's RX?
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you'll probably add it but a setting where you can adjust volume on each track instead of amplifying all sources at a time. and a utility to split tracks without sbe errors
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Singular software's PluralEyes and DualEyes already offers this, no?
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Singular software's PluralEyes and DualEyes already offers this, no?
Apparently. Have you tried either? There's a free trial.
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you'll probably add it but a setting where you can adjust volume on each track instead of amplifying all sources at a time. and a utility to split tracks without sbe errors
really, the only think you should want in a utility like this is:
1) resamples one audio file to match another (bonus points for using a VST wrapper to allow for 3rd party resampling algos).
2) Dithers (again, preferably using a VST wrapper)
Do all of your mixing and other changes elsewhere once they are reclocked.
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Any idea how this compares to the one available in Izotope's RX?
How is Izotope RX able to sync audio tracks?
Singular software's PluralEyes and DualEyes already offers this, no?
Didn't know this one, but there's a few others as well. What they all have in common is that they're not able to compensate time drift.
VST can support more than a single track, up to 8 I/O I believe. Whether or not a given host can successfully route multiple tracks discretely to that VST is a different matter. A possible workaround for many hosts would be to combine individual tracks into a single surround track.
Are you sure you're not mixing up audio tracks with the MIDI I/O channels of which VST supports 16? The workaround would be possible, yes, but I am not a big fan of workarounds ;) I have already thought about a better method though, how VST could still be used...
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Any idea how this compares to the one available in Izotope's RX?
How is Izotope RX able to sync audio tracks?
I guess it's looking for correlated information. I honestly don't know the inner workings, I just use it for correcting inter-channel issues and balance. I was just curious if you're using a similar method.
To be clear, it won't resample, it's just a time-line correction where as you would be doing both steps.
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Singular software's PluralEyes and DualEyes already offers this, no?
Apparently. Have you tried either? There's a free trial.
I've tried both with mixed results. It works great, except when it doesn't.
keytohwy
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I have studied various versions of the VST programming interface and native multitrack support is definitely not available... what's supported is an arbitrary number of channels therefore they can support surround etc... Anyway, I have been thinking about VST for a while and the nature of how VST works is far from ideal for such kind of software (like you already mentioned, latency would be a big if not the biggest problem). NLE plugins would be possible (like it's done by PluralEyes) but that is out of focus for now.
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Are you planning to have your software analyze the tracks at several points during the recording, in order to make sure that things continue to remain in sync? I don't know whether clock drift between any two particular sources remains a constant or not, but if not, then it would seem that intermediate points would have to be established. I imagine that there would have to be a millisecond inserted here or there in order to compensate for the drift, which hopefully can be done in a completely silent manner.
This would make dealing with my four track set up a lot easier, because I could just load them into Audacity, run this program, and then take the two tracks back into Soundforge, which is my personally preferred post production program. Looking forward to seeing and/or testing your software.
Wow, if only I had known that I could have gotten a college degree in taping.