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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: pinknoise on April 11, 2013, 10:19:21 AM
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Zoom announced 6ch recorder H6
http://www.zoom.co.jp/news/article/547
http://www.keymusic.com/en/product/Zoom-H6
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Cool - KNOBS!!!
Any guesses when this will hit the market...?
Like the modular design - thats a bit of a departure for these kind of devices.
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http://zoom.co.jp/news/article/548
• The world's first handy recorder with interchangeable mic system
• XY mics capture remarkable stereo depth and clarity
• Mid-side mics provide continuously variable stereo width
• Four XLR/TRS inputs for external mic/line connections
• Up to six channels of simultaneous recording
• High-definition audio of up to 24-bit/96kHz
• 6-in/2-out USB audio interface
• Over 20 hours of operation with 4 AA batteries
• Supports SDXC memory cards up to 128GB
• Optional Shotgun mic and external XLR/TRS inputs available
(http://zoom.co.jp/img/text_img/text_img_3782.jpg)
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I know Zooms aren't very popular over here but
OH MY
GOD
THAT IS SO COOL
!!!!!!!
Sorry, just had to say it.
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I was wondering what Zoom was doing w/ all the other recorders surpassing the Zoom H4n on features.
They were working on this!
If they fixed the timesync issues and noisy preamps on the H4n, this totally kills the Tascam 60d and Roland R-26 :-)
Only negative is it would have been nice to include the mid-side and x-y mics at the same time for ambience recording.
Anyone know what the price is? Only thing I dug up was someone who claimed it'd be 400 euro or $400 US. If so, I'm getting in line :-)
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Looks like you can record 6 xlr channels at once - 4 on the main body and 2 extra with the add-on. That's pretty impressive. For stealthing might not be possible as you will have 3 pairs of mutually perpendicular xlr inputs sticking out. Even 2 pairs would be tricky. Wonder if there is a miniplug input as well.
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Looks like you can record 6 xlr channels at once - 4 on the main body and 2 extra with the add-on. That's pretty impressive. For stealthing might not be possible as you will have 3 pairs of mutually perpendicular xlr inputs sticking out. Even 4 might be tricky. Wonder if there is a miniplug input as well.
you'd think with that modular design - they could make a bunch of different input modules...
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For stealthing might not be possible as you will have 3 pairs of mutually perpendicular xlr inputs sticking out
Isn't "stealthing XLR inputs" an oxymoron?
XLR plugs are huge already :-)
If you want to stealth record, the Oly LS100 looks like a simpler way to do it...or a Tascam DR40 if you don't need super high quality...
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For stealthing might not be possible as you will have 3 pairs of mutually perpendicular xlr inputs sticking out
Isn't "stealthing XLR inputs" an oxymoron?
XLR plugs are huge already :-)
If you want to stealth record, the Oly LS100 looks like a simpler way to do it...or a Tascam DR40 if you don't need super high quality...
I was talking about 4 channel or more stealth. Yes of course 2 channel xlr is stealthable with many recorders
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I was talking about 4 channel or more stealth.
I'll vote for a 6ch version of the DR2d. One can dream.
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Nice to see someone bringing a fresh design approach to small recorders.
I'd be surprised if you'd get 20 hours from the batteries if running 6 phantom powered mics.
this totally kills the Tascam 60d and Roland R-26
Completely different target market from the 60d. No way could you fix this Zoom device under a camera.
Video - pretty useless! - at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuxzq20uduI
Some videos in German - http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/6657/zoom-h6-first-modular-audio-recorder-presented
- is there an extra input on the XY capsule side?
There's a remote too.
I think the German video gives a price breakdown but my German isn't up to it.
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Put your wallets away. Seems like there's no phantom power on board. Or if there is, there's no mention of it and no physical switches. Would have to be a menu option if present.
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Looks like you press the buttons labled L, R, 1 etc to turn phantom on/off. At least that would seem logical to me
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Put your wallets away. Seems like there's no phantom power on board. Or if there is, there's no mention of it and no physical switches. Would have to be a menu option if present.
There HAS to be mic powering - otherwise, what makes those mic modules run?
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The buttons are to do with record enabling or monitoring I would have thought. The supplied mics probably run off 'plug in power', low voltage not phantom (24 or 48 volts). I could be wrong about this but it is odd that phantom doesn't get a mention anywhere - eg in relation to battery life - nor is there evidence of a physical switch which is the normal arrangement. And given the theoretical hazards involved in making connections with phantom on, there's usually a well labelled method of turning it off and on, and, as far as I'm aware, it's not usually a menu function.
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Put your wallets away. Seems like there's no phantom power on board. Or if there is, there's no mention of it and no physical switches. Would have to be a menu option if present.
Maybe phantom is only "on" when you use the front XLR module?
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Put your wallets away. Seems like there's no phantom power on board.
Wow...huge FUBAR on the design if so :-P
I emailed Zoom to ask...but it really doesn't make sense. Their H4n had phantom power and they know anything at that price level has to have phantom power...
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Nice to see someone bringing a fresh design approach to small recorders.
I'd be surprised if you'd get 20 hours from the batteries if running 6 phantom powered mics.
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Completely different target market from the 60d. No way could you fix this Zoom device under a camera.
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And I'd be surprised if any vendor quoted their default battery life with phantom on.
I think the idea of this one is that it will attach to a rig, maybe even a beefy on-camera shoe. This is the case with the H4n and similar units. Note the shotgun mic module in the link below.
That shotgun module is a bit of Alice in Irony Land on some level. Camera mounted mics are nearly always a bad idea + shotguns indoors (especially cheap ones) are nearly always a bad idea + cheap shotguns (I'm looking at you Rode) are one of the hottest items in the amateur video world. So the H6 may, regardless of its preamps or other features, be responsible for lots of bad sound and frustrated video shooters.
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you'd think with that modular design - they could make a bunch of different input modules...
Two modules with the unit, XY and MS. Two optional modules, XLR/TRS and Shotgun.
http://zoom.co.jp/news/article/548
Also note the 20db pad switches visible on most of the inputs. If this applies to the line in we have a real useful improvement.
Fran
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The German Delamar video clearly states that there is phantom powering. They also mention the following prices:
H6 with XY and MS mics: below 400 euro
2 x XLR input module: 60 euro
shotgun mic module: 70 to 80 euro
Ralf
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I think this will sell as cupcakes
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The German Delamar video clearly states that there is phantom powering. They also mention the following prices:
H6 with XY and MS mics: below 400 euro
2 x XLR input module: 60 euro
shotgun mic module: 70 to 80 euro
Ralf
Do they say whether the preamps are different from previous Zoom recorders?
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No they don't.
Ralf
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Thanks for the translation, Ralf.
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Do they say whether the preamps are different from previous Zoom recorders?
Even if they don't, chips (a/d devices) are a lot better now for less cost and circuit design is a lot better. Even if they stuck to the same price point, the preamps should be better unless their designers suck :)
Thanks for the translation Ralf. I'm surprised they didn't mention phantom power in the specs.
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No they don't.
Ralf
Thanks.
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I'm surprised they didn't mention phantom power in the specs.
Is there anything of this kind on the market that has XLR mic inputs and no phantom power?
Ralf
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Probably not, but four AAAs for recorder and 6 x reliable 48 phantom is pushing it a bit. No doubt there are external power supply options.
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Is there anything of this kind on the market that has XLR mic inputs and no phantom power?
That's exactly what I said...doesn't make sense to have no phantom power unless it's the cheapy low end under $100 XLR recorders.
Should be interesting to see how long it lasts on batteries w/ power to all the XLRs...
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Looks like it might run on USB power.
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Looks like it might run on USB power.
Yes, it does, according to the German video. Besides, my H4, H2 and H4N all do.
@Ozpeter:
Is the phantom voltage of the H4 and H4n really the full 48 V or perhaps a little less than that? Most phantom-powered mics still operate at considerably lower voltages.
Ralf
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I don't know, Ralf - I only have an H2N (plus of course other devices from other manufacturers!)
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Looks like it might run on USB power.
Yes, it does, according to the German video. Besides, my H4, H2 and H4N all do.
Ralf
Yes, my H4 can run on USB power as a computer interface, but I was referring to stand-alone mode, where the recorder can operate independently while connected by USB to a battery pack or to AC power using an USB-to-AC adapter.
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Now that you say so, I've never really tried if my H2, H4 or H4N can actually be fed in normal operation through the USB port. Then again, I've never seen the necessity, as they all have an external power input and came with a matched power supply. I also had made myself an external battery pack out of a number of six Eneloops and that lasted longer than I've ever had the necessity to try out.
Anyway, they explicitly state in the German video that the H6 can be powered via the USB connector.
Ralf
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I was talking about 4 channel or more stealth.
I'll vote for a 6ch version of the DR2d. One can dream.
I second that motion! :-)
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Sold! It's exactly what I wanted. Thank you Zoom!
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So saw a couple things I wanted to chime in on here.
First of all: I want one. Can't wait. NOW PLEASE! :D
Second someone mentioned: "No way could you fix this Zoom device under a camera." There is specific mention in the press release about an optional attachment that allows for standard attachment of the H6 under a camera so... that's taken care of.
Third: Lots of mention of no Phantom but since we don't have a full set of specs I have to assume they wouldn't degrade from the H4n. The H4n has 48/24V Phantom which is controlled in a menu NOT by a switch and should be same with the H6.
I can't believe the 20hour time they list for anything "real" but any improvement over the 1h40m I get out of the pair of AAs in the H4n when recording 2 channel 96k/24bit w/ 24V Phantom would be huge. If the 4 batteries at least double that my life would be a lot better. If the new device is also more efficient and I can get at least 8 hours / charge I'll love Zoom 4 eva!
-Nate
http://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Nate+Anderson%22
My rig (minimal): Pair (ORTF) AKG C480B w/ CK63 Caps -> H4n (96k/24bit)
I have a Lunatec V3 I use for an input to my laptop if recording to that. It is also better sounding than the H4n preamps BUT not enough to justify using it ahead of the H4n when it's my on-site recorder.
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My rig (minimal): Pair (ORTF) AKG C480B w/ CK63 Caps -> H4n (96k/24bit)
I have a Lunatec V3 I use for an input to my laptop if recording to that. It is also better sounding than the H4n preamps BUT not enough to justify using it ahead of the H4n when it's my on-site recorder.
:o :o :o :o ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :o :o :o :o :o :o Really an $800 high end V3 preamps do not sound "THAT" much better than a $270 recorders preamps :facepalm:
What are you recording with it?
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It has selectable Phantom Power voltage: 12/24/48.
Anyone know if the mic pre level controls are analog or digital, and if they're digital, whether they can be ganged so that all channels can have the same gains set with one knob (like the Tascam DR-680)?
If so, it's a good match for our TetraMic mono/stereo/surround soundfield mic. A complete stealthable surround recording system could cost under $1700.
English videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yBfJveLuANk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xvlLKaYdnUY
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Len--it looked like the level controls were done via the knobs on top of the recorder, so doubtful they could be ganged. Will probably end up taping those down too depending on how easy they are to adjust. Of course they could throw a curveball in their design, Zoom has done weird stuff before.
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Len--it looked like the level controls were done via the knobs on top of the recorder, so doubtful they could be ganged. Will probably end up taping those down too depending on how easy they are to adjust. Of course they could throw a curveball in their design, Zoom has done weird stuff before.
You're probably right. I'm waiting for the release of the manual on the Zoom web site.
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American Musical Supply has some good images of the unit itself and the full spec.'s on it too. Not even getting this info from the Zoom JP site.
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-ZOO-H6-LIST
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Anyone know if the mic pre level controls are analog or digital, and if they're digital, whether they can be ganged so that all channels can have the same gains set with one knob (like the Tascam DR-680)?
Don't want to derail this Zoom thread, but have a quick question for Len on this:
Len, have you found the DR-680 channel gains to be matched closely enough throughout their gain range that they track evenly enough when ganged to not require level adjustment between individual channels on the computer using recorded test tones before doing the mic-specific A-format processing? I've not meaused how close the gains actually track when ganged.
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The DR-680 that we have here is very well-matched between channels so that you can gang them, change levels and not have to trim each channel separately.
But we've heard of at least one DR-680 where the gains were not so well matched, so it makes sense to measure them before you trust them.
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Thanks. I'll do some measuring.
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On the side picture of the XY mic module, is that a 1/8" input I see? Can it work like the Zoom H4n and you just plug in a 1/8" input?
EDIT: Confirmed: "The supplied XYH-6 X/Y capsule also provides a secondary input for connecting an external mic- or line-level signal via a stereo 1/8 inch Mic/Line In mini phone jack. When a connection is made to that jack, signal from the X/Y microphones is muted."
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It's a pity that the standard package includes MS and XY mics, but not the adapter providing XLR mic input for channels 1 and 2. That's an extra not yet listed for preorder. Hopefully at some point the device will be offered in an alternative package with no mics but with the XLR adapter included, to provide real 6 channel XLR capability.
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From B&H photo's site:
I bolded some things I like about it, I wonder if this will run on my energizer xpal battery through the usb instead of AAs.
The H6 Handy from Zoom is a portable handheld recorder and USB audio interface that features an interchangeable microphone system. The recorder ships with both XY and mid-side microphone modules, foam windscreen, 2GB SD card, four AA batteries, USB cable, Cubase LE and a hard carrying case. Optional module attachments can be purchased for expanded functionality.
The H6 Handy allows for versatile recording techniques, giving you several options right out of the box. The included XYH-6 XY microphone module is made up of two matched unidirectional condenser microphones and is intended for capturing accurate, phase-correct stereo audio. The module allows you to adjust the angle of the two mics to either 90 degrees, or for a wider stereo image, 120 degrees.
For situations that call for audio that allows for width control over your stereo image after it has been recorded, the XY module can be switched out for the MSH-6 mid-side stereo microphone module. Contrary to the appearance of the capsule, the mid-side module actually contains two elements positioned on top of one another: a unidirectional mic which faces forward (mid), and a bi-directional mic set perpendicular to it (side). In addition to providing you the ability to adjust the width of your stereo audio after it has been recorded, MS recording also provides true mono compatibility, a factor that comes into play in situations such as television production.
In addition, the H6 is equipped with four XLR/TRS combo inputs for connecting external mic/line sources such as microphones or mixers. All four inputs and each of the mic modules are equipped with their own preamps with dedicated gain knobs that are easily accessible whether you have the unit mounted to your camera, or strapped over your shoulder. Also, each of the four combo inputs has its own -20dB pad.
The recorder allows you to record up to six channels at once and stores them to SDXC memory cards up to 128GB in size. It also features a backup-record option that tracks a duplicate of the left and right channels with -12db input gain. This means that if you find that you have tracked your main audio too loud and that distortion has occurred in your audio, you will have a backup stereo mix with 12 db more headroom as a fail-safe. The unit also doubles as a 6-in/2-out USB audio interface and it can be used with your computer running the included Cubase LE or other DAW software.
Main Features
Large full-color angled LCD display that allows visibility whether mounted on a camera or strapped over shoulder
XYH-6 X/Y capsule also provides a secondary input for connecting an external mic or line level signal via stereo 1/8" mini jack
Optional wired controllers for remote transport controls
Optional hairy windscreen offers improved wind diffusion
Built-in speaker, located on the underside of the unit, for fast monophonic monitoring of the recorded signal without the need to make any connections
Interchangeable input capsules that can be swapped out as easily as the lens of a camera
Six-track simultaneous recording
Four mic/line inputs with XLR/TRS combo connectors
Physical gain control knobs and -20dB pads for each input
Phantom power for all main inputs: +12/+24/+48V
Records directly to SD, SDHC and SDXC cards up to 128GB
Up to 24-bit/96kHz audio in BWF-compliant WAV or a variety of MP3 formats
Auto-record, pre-record and backup-record functions
Multitrack to stereo internal mixdown
Independent monitor and playback mixes
Graphical VU meters
Voice memo and up to 99 marks per recording
Overdubbing, up to 99 takes
Built-in effects, including low-cut filtering, compression and limiting
Onboard MS decoding
Normalize, Divide and Trim editing
Chromatic tuner and metronome
Loop Playback with user-defined start and stop points
Variable playback speed, from 50% to 150%
Variable pitch per track without affecting playback speed
USB port for data exchange to and from computer
Multichannel and stereo USB audio interface for PC/Mac/iPad
Camera strap mounts
Mounts directly to DSLR or camcorder with optional HS-01 Hot Shoe Mount adapter
Accepts standard AA alkaline or NiMH rechargeable batteries
Over 20 hours of operation with 4 AA alkaline batteries
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I'll definitely be getting one of these, looks like a good upgrade for my backup recorder (zoom H2) and for >:D when i can't bring my telefunkens and sd 722. I'm already spending the money I just got from my raise on friday on gear and shows :P
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B&H said this would be available in August sometime.
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They have been selling them on eBay the past few days. Had one from Japan with free shipping for $499 with all the extra attachments too. Was a buy it now deal, so it's gone. They are out it seems, perhaps some companies selling them are sold out at the moment?
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I just noticed that the latest blurb indicates no phantom on the plug-in preamp module.
http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/h6/
Note: The EXH-6 does not support phantom power.
Fran
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-ZOOM-Handy-Recorder-Professional-H6-for-multi-purpose-Import-Japan-/130942565016
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Very interesting. I noticed the manual was up on the Zoom website. I'll still wait until US distribution before snagging mine.
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You are correct as The North American Zoom site finally has it up for download as well as they updated the website http://www.zoom-na.com/ (http://www.zoom-na.com/) to shed more info on this unit.
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I just noticed that the latest blurb indicates no phantom on the plug-in preamp module.
Indeed, it states specifically that there's no phantom on that module. That will be a dealbreaker for some users (me for instance - I already have a recorder with four phantom powered inputs, and would have no use for an unpowered pair in addition).
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Indeed, it states specifically that there's no phantom on that module. That will be a dealbreaker for some users (me for instance - I already have a recorder with four phantom powered inputs, and would have no use for an unpowered pair in addition).
Be sure to complain to Zoom's web site about this. The nice thing about their system is that it is modular, so they could in theory come out w/ another XLR module w/ a built-in battery and phantom powered inputs...
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Indeed, it states specifically that there's no phantom on that module. That will be a dealbreaker for some users (me for instance - I already have a recorder with four phantom powered inputs, and would have no use for an unpowered pair in addition).
Be sure to complain to Zoom's web site about this. The nice thing about their system is that it is modular, so they could in theory come out w/ another XLR module w/ a built-in battery and phantom powered inputs...
I guess once someone figures out that connector and a parts source - folks could DIY their own interfaces/mods...
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There's a short hands on review here :-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/audio/hands-reviews/hands-review-zoom-h6-handy-handheld-recorder
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I pre-ordered one today from B&H, I'll let you guys know how I like it. I'll probably use my energizer xpal as the power source with AA's as a back up. I plan on using it to record my NAK 300s and my dad's NAK 100s CP4 as a backup for my telefunken ela M 260s>SD722. We'll see how I like these. I wish they did a bundle deal, or let you choose what you wanted. I would take the extra two xlr inputs over the MS mic.
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Interesting - the shotgun attachment is mono, but the mic contains three elements...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/981649-REG/zoom_sgh_6_hyper_direct_mono_shotgun_mic.html
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I gotta wonder if the lack of phantom on the XLR module is real...?
No doubt its available at the snap on connector...otherwise how would the other mic attachments work?
And this Sweetwater piece seems to make a different claim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo7Je0WmCAU
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I just noticed that the latest blurb indicates no phantom on the plug-in preamp module.
Indeed, it states specifically that there's no phantom on that module. That will be a dealbreaker for some users (me for instance - I already have a recorder with four phantom powered inputs, and would have no use for an unpowered pair in addition).
so 4 inputs with phantom, and 2 without? ... you don't need phantom power going from an external preamp to H6 or sound board line out > H6.
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I gotta wonder if the lack of phantom on the XLR module is real...?
No doubt its available at the snap on connector...otherwise how would the other mic attachments work?
Maybe the connector only includes 12V power pins to power the mic attachment preamps?
I agree it doesn't make sense not to route phantom power to the pins as well though.
And AFAIK, the lack of phantom power on the XLR module is documented now...Sweetwater's blurb was before we first heard of this. B&H should have mentioned it though.
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Just got a notification from B&H that they're in and shipping, I should have one on Tuesday (I guess you could run in Sunday and pick one up if you're really hot to trot).
Jeff
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Sweetwater has in stock too. At the price they are selling them for, I had to buy one just to test it for myself. Should have on Tue. as well
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You don't need anything like phantom to power mics - "plug in power" is less than 2 volts - I think....
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So does anyone actually have a real idea of what the noise floor and DB range is on this unit?
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Given that a very basic recorder these days will provide more dynamic range than you can actually use, I doubt whether the H6 will have significant problems with noise etc.
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Given that a very basic recorder these days will provide more dynamic range than you can actually use, I doubt whether the H6 will have significant problems with noise etc.
The old H4 had a reputation for being a bit noisey...I think that's why people are wondering.
That said, A/D chips and design are a lot better now if the DR100mkII and Panasonic are any indication...
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from Zoom's site, the XLR/TRS combo does not provide phantom power http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/h6/
If you need more inputs, simply plug in the optional EXH-6 Dual XLR/TRS Combo capsule. It allows you to connect up to six discrete signals from external microphones, instruments, mixers or portable music players, making the H6 the smallest six-track recorder on the planet!
Note: The EXH-6 does not support phantom power.
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I suspect that you could connect a soundboard feed, or two more mics via an external preamp, or a 'Plugin Power' mic, to the MIC/LINE input jack of the XY mic module, and record a full 6 tracks.
That would be nice.
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... if the DR100mkII and Panasonic are any indication...
What Panasonic?
Noam
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What Panasonic?
Sorry..I meant Olympus' LS-100 :-\
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I got my new Zoom H6 in today. It is heavier than it looks and feels sturdy. I tried out the XY and MS mics just with my voice and they sound decent. I will be testing it with my telefunkens, nak 300/100s, and Superlux mics tomorrow to see how they sound with music playing on my speakers. I did test it on both AA batteries and USB power. I have an energizer expal battery that will power it for any show lengths (it can power a large laptop for an additional 4 hours so I'm not worried about phantom power usage plus the AA will be backup to the external power)
I was surprised that it has a speaker for playback. I don't remember reading about that in any of the info.
The extra XLR input module was on backorder from B&H so I haven't tested that yet either.
I'm looking forward to this, now i'll be able to record all my mics at each show :P
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Got my H6 yesterday and had the chance to examine and test some things as well.
It is a sturdy recorder in the manner of how it feels in hand, although I really am not impressed by the SD card door, as it will most likely in time simply rip off from the H6 body. I would have preferred them to have had an actual hinged door as they do on the Marantz PMD661. The 5v USB power was easily supplied using my Tekkeon MP3450, so no issues there.
The menu functions are very easy to access and change. I did happen to like the virtual VU meters they had too, although I am not sure why it was necessary to add them in the manner of which they did. I will most likely never use the metronome or tuner they have, but for a musician, it can be a nice bonus to have all in one.
Come this weekend weather permitting, I will try it out on an outdoor gig.
I do like that the size of this recorder, as the Roland R4 (not the R4 Pro, but the big clunky R4) I have is a dinosaur compared to this for portability and stealth matters.
The extra XLR input module should be shipping in the next weeks?
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After using the H6 this past weekend, I am happy to report that this recorder was extremely simple and straight forward to use. I had run the X/Y mic's that come with the H6 as to which I can now say that I will be happy to replace them as soon as the extra XLR input module ships. In addition to the X/Y mic's I also ran my Miktek C5's into an SD MixPre-D> into the #3-4 inputs and a pair of Audix M1255B's into the #1-2 inputs.
Overall mixing is extremely easy with this recorder. One thing I would suggest to any user of this devise is that a larger capacity HD card be used, as I had used an 8Gig card but at 24/96 it pretty much ate up the space on the card as to which I wanted to utilize the onboard mix function of the H6, but had no remaining card space to do so and execute. Dropping the RAW tracks into Cubase or even Nero was a simple step and allowed me to do what was needed on the mix end, as my 1st priority was to kill the L/R X/Y Mic recording tracks on what is called L-R and use only the Miktek and Audix feeds. I can see a use for the X/Y Mic's they give you for other uses such as lectures, but not the best for capturing live music.
The noise levels had been very quiet and I must say I was impressed by that as I had feared that it may have an inherited noise issue in reading notes of past recorders at such an inexpensive price.
Overall, it was a good experience with this recorder and I am extremely doubtful I will run my old R4 anymore with the H6 now in the arsenal of recorders. My Marantz PMD661/Sound Device MixPre-D setup will remain my workhorse when running direct dig soundboards only, but for the use of mic's alone, I am very pleased with the results I had.
Using the external power from my Tekkeon also worked well!
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I went ahead and ordered one last week and it arrived today. After setting it up and going thru the menu, I found it relatively easy to use.
The only complaint I have is that the volume control knobs move way too easily. I ended up using tape on them after dialing in each channel. :-\
I don't plan on using the modular mics that came with it, or the phantom power option. I ordered the extra XLR input module to add 2 more channels, if needed.
I just wanted a recorder that didn't utilize mini plug inputs, or running Line In on a Mic In the way my DR-2d does.
I won't have a chance to run it in the field until friday when I go to YMSB... I'll keep you all posted.
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Got mine today. Played around with it a bit using my home wireless ear monitor system and compared inputs.
1. The 1/8" line-in on the xy cap seems to be at normal/matching volume as the trs inputs, so not super sensitive like the zoom h4n.
2. The device itself is pretty light, as a majority of the weight is actually in the detachable mic piece. About the same size as the zoom h4n, maybe a smidge bigger.
3. xlr/trs inputs on the side, so will have to get right angle adapters to minimize size footprint while stealthing.
4. No latency issues between the inputs, which the zoom h4n had (always super annoying for the h4n).
6. Can create an individual monitor mix that is independent of the recording gain. However, you can't adjust this while recording.
7. No solo feature
8. Knobs are somewhat easy to knock, will have to tape down while taping.
9. Screen is angled down, so will have to play with positioning for stealth adjustments. Bright LCD screen.
I am going to write to Zoom and see if they can't make some tweaks for the firmware update. I think a setting where holding down the input number triggering a solo (similar to the 680) would be very useful, as would adjustable monitor mixing while recording.
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I'd like if putting the device in hold would prevent bumping the knobs from changing the volume. They could possibly make it a setting whether turning hold on does this or not.
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http://juicedlink.com/blog/2013/08/zoom-h6-reviewtestscomparison-to-tascam-dr-60d-and-riggy-micro/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+juicedlink%2FfDTA+%28juicedLink%29&utm_content=Yahoo!+Mail/
First decent comparo review so far.
Didn't realize the XLRs were non-locking :(
The DR60D is hugeeee and has terrible battery life w/ powered mics and stepped audio increments :o
Hope the H6's screen can be turned off...they should have used a backlit e-paper display which is fairly inexpensive now.
Backup (lower DB signal) is only recorded w/ the external XLR module (not internal)....huh??? Weird. Who would design it like that? ???
Good news is that the H4 background noise is gone :D :D :D
Besides the backup track issue and non-locking XLR connectors, it looks like they did a good job with it.
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http://juicedlink.com/blog/2013/08/zoom-h6-reviewtestscomparison-to-tascam-dr-60d-and-riggy-micro/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+juicedlink%2FfDTA+%28juicedLink%29&utm_content=Yahoo!+Mail/
First decent comparo review so far.
Didn't realize the XLRs were non-locking :(
The DR60D is hugeeee and has terrible battery life w/ powered mics and stepped audio increments :o
Hope the H6's screen can be turned off...they should have used a backlit e-paper display which is fairly inexpensive now.
Backup (lower DB signal) is only recorded w/ the external XLR module (not internal)....huh??? Weird. Who would design it like that? ???
Good news is that the H4 background noise is gone :D :D :D
Besides the backup track issue and non-locking XLR connectors, it looks like they did a good job with it.
You can set it to save power and turn off the screen. The back up will probably be added to the other channels with a firmware update, if enough people ask like the seamless breaks were for the h2 a couple years ago. I powered it with an energizer xpal battery pack and had backup AA in the recorder in case the battery died, ran 3+ hours no problem at the tedeschi trucks/black crowes show. On the way home I listened headphone out to my car stereo powered only with the AAs about 2+ hours drive and then another 2 hours through it's internal speaker when i got home and the AAs are at a full indicator still. I'll be doing a test with my speaker later to see how long it will last with 4 mics phantom powered recording my speakers at home this week. I'm going to buy some 64 GB sd cards from costco for peachfest.
another tid bit. You can link the stereo tracks by pressing channel 1&2 and 3&4.
Here is the ttb and tbc nak300 CP3/Cp1>zoom H6 source
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=566123 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=566123)
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=566104 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=566104)
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Another thing is it can connect an iPad through a camera connection kit, probably an iphone too with adapters. Makes streaming easier.
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The Juicedlink review is interesting but it has to be pointed out that the reviewer is selling a product which is competitive with the devices under review. There were several points where I found myself in disagreement with some comments but I didn't take note of them so I'll say no more.
In general I still feel that the H6 isn't really intended for camera use. I know you can use it that way, and Zoom are happy for people to buy it for that purpose, but it's a spin-off application for the device, not a core purpose, imho. The DR60D on the other hand is a camera-oriented device which could be used for other purposes if you wanted.
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You can set it to save power and turn off the screen. The back up will probably be added to the other channels with a firmware
Thanks for confirming the screen can be configured for autoshutoff.
I'm still not sure a lower volume track can be saved w/ a firmware update. You'd need hardware support for it somehow to get that lower volume data. Unless the hardware is there but they didn't have time to write the code for it...
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Hi everyone! I'm new here, so be gentle with me... I'm just an indie filmmaker that pays a lot of attention on audio, recently I got myself a Tascam DR-60D (loving it) and just now received the Zoom H6, I did notice that for practicality wise, using the Tascam for a one man crew shoot would work best while the Zoom H6 is not feasible to access or read the screen when it is mounted above the camera. (Unless you use one of the magic arm).
I plan to keep both cause I have use for both in my environment: Tascam for most audio recording with DSLRs shoots while the Zoom for our on location radio recording needs or for conference meetings and such.
Now going to go and play with H6...
UPDATE: did two tests. One on practicality or a one man dslr shooter, tascam dr-60d is much better... Then a test in not so ideal film shoot environment. The Zoom resulted with more audible noise than the Tascam...
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another tid bit. You can link the stereo tracks by pressing channel 1&2 and 3&4.
Would you please explain what this means?
Thanks!
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another tid bit. You can link the stereo tracks by pressing channel 1&2 and 3&4.
Would you please explain what this means?
Thanks!
you can create stereo files instead of mono poly files
you can also just do that with .wav editing software in post of course
EDIT:
the main advantage to not running stereo files is the 2 gig file limit of mono poly files is twice as long as stereo files
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another tid bit. You can link the stereo tracks by pressing channel 1&2 and 3&4.
Would you please explain what this means?
Thanks!
you can create stereo files instead of mono poly files
you can also just do that with .wav editing software in post of course
EDIT:
the main advantage to not running stereo files is the 2 gig file limit of mono poly files is twice as long as stereo files
Although it is seamless recording, so once the limit is reached a new recording starts immediately. Running either way is good and simple.
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Hi everyone! I'm new here, so be gentle with me... I'm just an indie filmmaker that pays a lot of attention on audio, recently I got myself a Tascam DR-60D (loving it) and just now received the Zoom H6, I did notice that for practicality wise, using the Tascam for a one man crew shoot would work best while the Zoom H6 is not feasible to access or read the screen when it is mounted above the camera. (Unless you use one of the magic arm).
I plan to keep both cause I have use for both in my environment: Tascam for most audio recording with DSLRs shoots while the Zoom for our on location radio recording needs or for conference meetings and such.
Now going to go and play with H6...
UPDATE: did two tests. One on practicality or a one man dslr shooter, tascam dr-60d is much better... Then a test in not so ideal film shoot environment. The Zoom resulted with more audible noise than the Tascam...
Could you give us a bit more detail on your configurations? I've been very impressed with the low noise of my H6.
Here are some acoustic guitar shootout clips including a PCM-D50 and a couple of other configurations: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/15/zoom-h6-acoustic-guitar-shootout/
Fran
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I've done some more basic evaluation of the H6. I did a battery run-down test using 4 fresh brand name AAs. With a Rode NT4 and a pair of Shure KSM141s using P48 along with the XY mic module the H6 recorded 6 tracks for about 4 and a half hours.
Then I turned to the MS mic module, and I'm not impressed. In comparison to the NT4 the MSH-6 module is quite noisy. In comparison to the XYH-6 module it's noisy too. I'm actually impressed with the XY self-noise, but definitely not with the MS.
I did a blog post with various blather and a set of comparison clips, some with low level test tones, some with acoustic guitar. http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/21/zoom-h6-ms-noise-issue/
Fran
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Hi everyone, sorry for the lateness, been busy with a bit of work, now, I'm not a sound guy, just an indie filmmaker, so my test may not be right... However, as pointed out to me at another forum, I've done the same test twice and the result is still Tascam DR-60D has less noise, this Sunday we are doing one more test with a Sound Engineering between the two devices. He did tested the Tascam earlier at a film festival and liked how it sounded (cleaner than his H4N).
For practicality wise, the Tascam mounted under the DSLR is better for a one-man or two-men crew operations as the camera man can monitor the video/audio without too many head movements. Zoom will requires a hotshoe mount or a cage or a magic arm so you can easily see the settings (once tripod is set on level for filmming). But of course, having a good sound guy definately helps.
The previous two tests I've done, here's how it was set:
- Mics: Audio Technica AT8035 and Sennheiser MKE600
- Talent: PC Laptop playing via it's speaker system of a feature film I've made in 2005 and released in 2007, I have looped one of the early scene which contains dialogue and music
- Distance: both secured on two mic stands and about 2.5' away from the source (trying to set as a 'on location' distance test)
- Room - quiet, this is a room created for ADR usage, it's not 100% noise free, but it has 90% coverage. We have done many ADR in this room for indie films and they all sounded great (for filmmaking usage)
- me: sitting in the other room looking at the mics via a full open window.
Plugged Sennheiser on T1 and AT on T2
Devices: Tascam DR-60D and Zoom H6: no limiter set, no cut of set. both uses batteries, both devices provide phantom power to the mics, no -20 padswitch turned on, no backup tracks recording (I thought the H6 only do backup tracks on L/R - which is the module part).
Tascam DR-60D set : Gain at Mid, knob dial to 3 o'clock line
Zoom H6 set : dial knob to 5-6 level
recorded level, both sounded great, brought it into Premiere cs6 with monitor speaker, listening it, Sennheiser mic is more sensitive and provides lounder volume, both sounded great. Did a quick normalization with -12db, Zoom's has noise, Tascam barely can hear it.
At one forum, I was told that the dial on the Zoom was set too low and that everyone said to set it on 7-8 would be best, so I tried the same scenario test again. Except this time to set the Zoom H6's dial to 7-8 area
Without normalizing, and bringing it just as it is into Premiere CS6, Zoom H6 definately has noise, then I did a normalize to -12db on the Zoom's audio track, it still display greater noise level than the Tascam.
We are taping this Sunday's test (video/audio) and we shall know the result :)
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One thing I have noticed is the screen scratches easily
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One thing I have noticed is the screen scratches easily
Thanks for the heads up on that, as I was wondering about the screen and how durable it is...I may place a cell phone screen protector on mine now that you mention this! TY!
Already thinking that I would love to modify mine and replace the stock XLR/TRS combo connectors with 4 new locking Neutrik NCJ9FI-S XLR TRS Combo Connectors. Looking at the body of the unit and how it has been designed, it does not appear that it will allow for this :( I am still surprised they did not have this feature to begin with!
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I was surprised by that as well, I'm probably going to use gaffers tape to keep them plugged in. If you do the mod tell us how it went.
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I'm not understanding the desire for locking jacks. The jacks are pretty darned tight, so I'm not expecting them to come slipping out, and I think I'd rather have a cable pull out and lose a recording than have my recorder pulled down by someone tripping on a cable - although I think the current non-locking jack would indeed hold onto the cable and get knocked over.
Fran
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Just a personal preference on my end.
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So this past Sunday we did a test with an audio engineer Jordan and here is what we found. Tascam DR-60D preamp noise is 30 db less than Zoom H6. Really low overall. Zoom H6 preamp is still better than the Zoom H4n. Video will be out this Thursday. I contacted Zoom and told them about the noise and they suggested me to check out the video posted by juicedlink. I then told them that the 30db and immediately they are willing to give me a refund... I actually going to keep both for usage that best suited for each.
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So this past Sunday we did a test with an audio engineer Jordan and here is what we found. Tascam DR-60D preamp noise is 30 db less than Zoom H6. Really low overall. Zoom H6 preamp is still better than the Zoom H4n. Video will be out this Thursday. I contacted Zoom and told them about the noise and they suggested me to check out the video posted by juicedlink. I then told them that the 30db and immediately they are willing to give me a refund... I actually going to keep both for usage that best suited for each.
We're having this one way discussion in more than one forum. You keep saying things like "30 db more noise" and I keep asking for details on your comparison method and for sample clips. 30 dB is a blinkin' huge difference! Especially when I hear little or no difference between the H6 preamps and my RME UFX.
But if your H6 is 30 dB noisier than your than your Tascam I would do what Zoom suggests and send it back.
Fran
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In my first comparo I was pleasantly surprised that the H6 preamps sounded like they had a noise floor similar to my RME UFX - that is, an inaudible one. But that test used different mics for each chain and had poor level matching. http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/15/zoom-h6-acoustic-guitar-shootout/
I decided to do something a bit more rigorous. I put the battery in the Rode NT4, fed it through a Coleman LS3 passive switcher, and then into the H6 built-in XLR and the RME UFX.
Here are clips with a low volume test tone and the room tone - what passes for quiet in a suburban bedroom:
RME UFX Low Volume Tone (http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/media/2013-08-28-h6-rme/Low-Tone-RME.wav)
Zoom H6 Low Volume Tone (http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/media/2013-08-28-h6-rme/Low-Tone-Zoom.wav)
and here is a bit of slack key guitar:
RME UFX Music Sample (http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/media/2013-08-28-h6-rme/Music-RME.wav)
Zoom H6 Music Sample (http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/media/2013-08-28-h6-rme/Music-Zoom.wav)
Fran
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I listened admittedly briefly to the two room tone samples, and while the H6 was clearly noisier, in real world terms I don't believe it would be a problem - I had to crank my amp up pretty high (using headphones) and if I used that level for listening to normal recordings, I'd probably be in the ear hospital now!
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I added another set of samples to the H6 - UFX comparison http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/ in an update section. Some folks were commenting on the high noise levels of the H6 when the preamp gain was cranked to the max, so I used a low output ribbon mic through the splitter and cranked the H6 preamp all the way up. I had to do the same to the RME UFX, then add 2 dB of digital gain besides, to get them to the same level.
RME Ribbon (http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/media/2013-08-28-h6-rme/Ribbon%20RME.wav)
Zoom Ribbon (http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/media/2013-08-28-h6-rme/Ribbon%20Zoom.wav)
The test tone was reading around 50 dB C weighted at the mic position, so the test signal was pretty darned quiet. As you say, Peter, the H6 generates a bit more noise, but in order to hear it we have to crank things up so much that normal recordings would be unlistenable. At realistic levels the H6 gives the same audible result as the UFX.
Fran
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Hi
I use a Telinga Stereo Mic with 3.5mm plug in field on my new H6. Had the H4n earlier for several years now.
I tested the mic/H6 by putting into my bed with pointing the parabola downwards and added 2 douvets on top of it.
Made the recording, from level 10-7 and added +20dB of gain in Audacity, hear the result at
http://tromsofoto.blogspot.no/2013/09/zoom-h6-review-in-field-and-post.html (http://tromsofoto.blogspot.no/2013/09/zoom-h6-review-in-field-and-post.html)
I also added a couple of real-life recordings in field.
CONS:
* The file-system makes me go bananas! I will have the date&time as a filename, not only as the name of the folder. I don't want to handle 15 different ZOOM0005.wav or whatever.. ??? That makes a mess in my workflow!
* I want the automatic split on long recordings to be less than 3 H 15 mins (why not 1h, H4n had 2H5mins), my computer struggles to handle this size of files! I make recordings in nature all night and H6 creates gigantic files..
*I dont need the X/Y and carries it only due to the 3.5mm input - stupid engineering! Size reduction with 1/4 if I could leave it at home!
*Monitoring the headphones ALL THE TIME, you have to cut the mics input (LR-switch) to stop the sound from the mics. On H4n sound in earphones came on only when pushing rec once.
PRO
*Seems they killed the noise issue..
*Start-up time is 4 sec.
*Battery life with a 6600Mah USB external Power is fantastic (several days of recording Wav's) Only PIP (Plug-in-Power)used, Not Phantom Power.
But all in all (when they fix the Folder/file-mystery in next firmware-update) I'll love it >:D
Stein, Norway
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I ran a line input to the 3.5mm inputs for channels 5 and 6 on the xy microphone head because I use an external preamp.
This input on the xy microphone head channels 5-6 has a tremendous amount of gain.
I had to dial down the inputs to between levels 1 and 2 on the dial while the other inputs (1-4) for the same line input could be recorded at a input level of between 4-5 on the dial.
I could not find a setting to bypass the gain in that xy head.
Suggestions?
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I ran a line input to the 3.5mm inputs for channels 5 and 6 on the xy microphone head because I use an external preamp.
This input on the xy microphone head channels 5-6 has a tremendous amount of gain.
I had to dial down the inputs to between levels 1 and 2 on the dial while the other inputs (1-4) for the same line input could be recorded at a input level of between 4-5 on the dial.
I could not find a setting to bypass the gain in that xy head.
Suggestions?
Is that 3.5mm jack mic or line level input?...sounds like it's expecting mic level...hence the overload of gain...?
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The label on the 3.5mm jack states Mic/Line
So yes, my assumption is that there is quite a bit of gain and there is no workaround in the internal settings
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The label on the 3.5mm jack states Mic/Line
So yes, my assumption is that there is quite a bit of gain and there is no workaround in the internal settings
Is the plug-in power on the 3.5mm jack switchable?
Looks like it is per page 88...perhaps turning it off might change the input sensitivity also...?(a longshot!)
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The label on the 3.5mm jack states Mic/Line
So yes, my assumption is that there is quite a bit of gain and there is no workaround in the internal settings
Is the plug-in power on the 3.5mm jack switchable?
Looks like it is per page 88...perhaps turning it off might change the input sensitivity also...?(a longshot!)
I went back thru and have my PIP already set to off, and the 1/8 input on the X/Y mic is hot.
I have to lower the output from the SBD at my local venue from where I run it into my DR-2d and also my DR-680 when I owned one.
I still run the input around 2 on the H6's X/Y mic to keep it manageable. I feel that the Mic/Line needs a -20 dB pad like the other 4 inputs.
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Yep, this input is really hot and cannot be modified in settings.
Is there a good small profile portable device which could be used to pad this input?
Another question--There is an XLR Head as an optional accessory. Does anyone know if that is also as hot as XY Head? I assume so, because the preamps are likely in the body of the device, not in the optional head, but I have not purchased the XLR head and have not tested it for gain. Does anyone have any experience with this optional head?
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I'm still waiting on the XLR/TRS head... its been over 2 months and B&H keeps sending me backorder reminders.
I feel the wait has been a bit excessive, but it will have a -20dB pad on it like the other inputs.
In re. to the "XLR/TRS head", Sweetwater called me last Friday to tell me it would be available on the 10/18. We shall see!
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I'm in the exact same boat with the XLR/TRS module...hopefully it does come out on 10/18. Kinda crazy it took so long.
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I checked the photographs and yes, the XLR Module, while a bit expensive for what it is ($70) does have a -20db pad.
Here is a link to a photo
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H6EXH6 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H6EXH6)
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Talked with Sweetwater and was told once again that the XLR Module still has not arrived (10/18) and there is no revised date as to when they are shipping this...at least not yet. One would think this module would have been ready for sale when the H6 hit the street? Perhaps they are having issues with it?
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Talked with Sweetwater and was told once again that the XLR Module still has not arrived (10/18) and there is no revised date as to when they are shipping this...at least not yet. One would think this module would have been ready for sale when the H6 hit the street? Perhaps they are having issues with it?
not my post and I got no dog in this fight:-) End of year according to this
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/9467430-post110.html
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I checked the photographs and yes, the XLR Module, while a bit expensive for what it is ($70) does have a -20db pad.
Here is a link to a photo
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H6EXH6 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H6EXH6)
Like most new products, the brochure gets done before the product is produced. If you scale up on these two photos, all the tool marks are a dead giveaway that this prototype housing was CNC machined. Lots of sanding marks, too.
Probably still in initial production, though.
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the tool marks are a dead giveaway that this prototype housing was CNC machined. Lots of sanding marks, too.
Old school, man. Most just use the 3D model render in the sales literature now, no bothering with a physical prototype and photography.
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the tool marks are a dead giveaway that this prototype housing was CNC machined. Lots of sanding marks, too.
Old school, man. Most just use the 3D model render in the sales literature now, no bothering with a physical prototype and photography.
Yep, sell 'em air, it's all about the brochure.
There's still a few of us left that make stuff. ;)
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Does anyone have a Marantz 661 that they can compare the XLR inputs/pre to? Have lots of experience with the 661 and was thinking of getting one, but especially for music the extra XLRs and ability to multitrack put this a leg up.
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Spoke to Zoom rep at AES today, they said it would ship next week, and had one (prototype??) there with them. No 1/8" line-in, you have to go through the XLR inputs.
Jeff
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Has someone managed to test the H6 with dynamic mics which require a lot of gain? I mean the likes of Beyerdynamic M58 and Shure SM7B. If so, is the audio usable for high-quality broadcasts? Also, in case someone has gone through such a test, any chance of uploading the audio somewhere? I'd very much like to see how the H6 preamps treat such dynamic microphones.
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Just got an email from B&H that the XLR/TRS attachment has shipped as of today...looks like they're finally out.
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Has someone managed to test the H6 with dynamic mics which require a lot of gain? I mean the likes of Beyerdynamic M58 and Shure SM7B. If so, is the audio usable for high-quality broadcasts? Also, in case someone has gone through such a test, any chance of uploading the audio somewhere? I'd very much like to see how the H6 preamps treat such dynamic microphones.
I hooked up a ribbon mic, a Beyer M260 re-ribboned with an RCA ribbon. This is a very low sensitivity mic. Go to the update at the end of the article for these clips: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/
In my opinion, the H6 does the job in fine fashion.
Fran
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Has someone managed to test the H6 with dynamic mics which require a lot of gain? I mean the likes of Beyerdynamic M58 and Shure SM7B. If so, is the audio usable for high-quality broadcasts? Also, in case someone has gone through such a test, any chance of uploading the audio somewhere? I'd very much like to see how the H6 preamps treat such dynamic microphones.
I hooked up a ribbon mic, a Beyer M260 re-ribboned with an RCA ribbon. This is a very low sensitivity mic. Go to the update at the end of the article for these clips: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/
In my opinion, the H6 does the job in fine fashion.
Fran
Thanks, Fran, for the test -- I'm grabbing the clips. Of course, according to RecordingHacks, the M260 isn't as low-sensitive as the Shure SM7B. It's a 1.2 mV mic http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/beyerdynamic/M-260 whereas the Shure SM7b is a 1.12 mV one -- http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Shure/SM7B . Of course, they are quite close and that's enough to validate your test. And while we're at it, the Beyerdynamic M58 is a little on the higher end of sensitivity as it's a 1.3 mV mic -- http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/beyerdynamic/M-58
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Has someone managed to test the H6 with dynamic mics which require a lot of gain? I mean the likes of Beyerdynamic M58 and Shure SM7B. If so, is the audio usable for high-quality broadcasts? Also, in case someone has gone through such a test, any chance of uploading the audio somewhere? I'd very much like to see how the H6 preamps treat such dynamic microphones.
I hooked up a ribbon mic, a Beyer M260 re-ribboned with an RCA ribbon. This is a very low sensitivity mic. Go to the update at the end of the article for these clips: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/
In my opinion, the H6 does the job in fine fashion.
Fran
Fran, it seems to me that the clip recorded using the M260 and the H6 is noisier than what I can use on high-quality broadcasts. At least that's what I instantly noticed when listening to it via headphones. That is, according to your recording, if one uses something like the Beyerdynamic M58 (which is very similar to the M260 in terms of gain) in a quiet interview setting, the H6 hiss will be much more noticeable than is typically tolerated by producers and radio stations. To make sure if this is actually the case, would you please record 2 audio samples using your M260 and the H6? The H6 gain can be set to 6/7 for one sample and to 9 for the second sample. I just want to see if the same hiss is present in recordings when the H6 is used to capture audio from low-gain dynamic mics.
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What you need to understand about those clips is that the test tone was measuring -50 dB on a slow C weighted scale. It was extremely quiet, in other words. So if you play back that tone at normal conversational volume, you have the levels cranked a lot more than a normal session.
If I record a speaking voice or an acoustic guitar with the gain all the way up on both the RME and the H6, and play them back at normal volume levels, I can't hear a difference between them.
One thing further, with a low output mic I don't think anyone would find lower gain settings useful unless the source is extremely loud. When I crank the RME and the H6 to their maximum and record my acoustic guitar, they're still capturing a fairly low level that requires a bit of a boost to reach normal volumes.
Fran
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What you need to understand about those clips is that the test tone was measuring -50 dB on a slow C weighted scale. It was extremely quiet, in other words. So if you play back that tone at normal conversational volume, you have the levels cranked a lot more than a normal session.
If I record a speaking voice or an acoustic guitar with the gain all the way up on both the RME and the H6, and play them back at normal volume levels, I can't hear a difference between them.
One thing further, with a low output mic I don't think anyone would find lower gain settings useful unless the source is extremely loud. When I crank the RME and the H6 to their maximum and record my acoustic guitar, they're still capturing a fairly low level that requires a bit of a boost to reach normal volumes.
Fran
Fran, I'd still be happy to hear your speech/performance recordings with the H6 and the Beyerdynamic mic if you can handle it. The reason I'm asking is that I use the USBPre2 here a lot with low-output dynamic mics and don't get that hiss even when recording silence. On the other hand, I get the very exact hiss with Olympus LS-100 whose preamps are similar to those of the H6. The LS-100's preamps are great for condensers and aren't indeed bad for low-output dynamics either, but the USBPre 2 easily beats both. I'm trying to determine if the H6 meets the requirements of a high-quality broadcast-ready recorder with low-output dynamic mics or getting something like, say, the upcoming Sony PCM-D100 and combining it with the USBPre 2 (via Sony's digital input) would be the way to go.
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There is a review of the H6 in the latest (November 2013) issue of Sound On Sound.
It's HERE (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov13/articles/zoom-h6.htm)
You can buy the PDF for £0.99 HERE (http://www.soundonsound.com/shop/Basket.php) if you don't have a subscription.
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There is a review of the H6 in the latest (November 2013) issue of Sound On Sound.
It's HERE (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov13/articles/zoom-h6.htm)
You can buy the PDF for £0.99 HERE (http://www.soundonsound.com/shop/Basket.php) if you don't have a subscription.
Thanks for mentioning it here. I just read it and the review is, IMO, a very broad overview. Given the nature of the magazine and the fact that people are charged to gain access to the articles, I was expecting a more comprehensive review -- even some sort of recording comparison with its competitors. Also, having heard lots of M/S recordings created by the Zoom H6, I can't agree with the following statement:
............
The M/S array’s overall sound is similar to that of the X/Y, both in terms of quality and dynamic range, although, by its very nature, it is a little less tight and more expansive, and seems to handle lower frequencies more comfortably.
............
Nowhere in the article is it mentioned that the M/S mic is noticeably noisy -- quite noisier than the X/Y mic.
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OK, a set of samples with the ENAK re-ribbon Beyer M260 into the H6 and RME UFX, with test tone, narration, room tone, and solo acoustic guitar: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/10/31/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx-ribbon-mic-samples/
Samples are mono 44.1/16 PCM, they won't stream well and should be downloaded for comparison.
When I crank the gain on these samples I definitely hear more noise from the H6, just as I would expect from comparing the EIN figures.
Fran
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OK, a set of samples with the ENAK re-ribbon Beyer M260 into the H6 and RME UFX, with test tone, narration, room tone, and solo acoustic guitar: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/10/31/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx-ribbon-mic-samples/
Samples are mono 44.1/16 PCM, they won't stream well and should be downloaded for comparison.
When I crank the gain on these samples I definitely hear more noise from the H6, just as I would expect from comparing the EIN figures.
Fran
Fran, thanks for taking the time to prepare these interesting samples.
As you said, the H6 sample is noisier and listening to them via headphones instantly reveals that without the need to crank up the volume. The RME sample is pleasantly quieter IMO especially when comparing them in the "speech" segment and the "silence" section. Just one question remains: if you turn down the gain a bit, would it severely affect the recording produced by the H6? I mean would it badly decrease the volume of the recorded audio? At any rate, I think:
1. The H6 is a great recorder with great preamps, but it's not fair to expect it to perform like a $850 or $2000 recorder.
2. If one's goal is to use dynamic mics with the H6 for high-quality interviews (especially in quiet settings), low-output ones (such as the Shure SM7B, ElectroVoice RE20, RE635A and Beyerdynamic M58) should preferably be avoided. Mics like ElectroVoice RE50N/d, RE27, RE320, AKG D230, Beyerdynamic M59 and Beyerdynamic M99 should perform better, though.
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Guys, full length audio review of the zoom H6 that I did when the unit came out.
tests the internal XY, the MS mic and i've compared it with the LS-100 and the Zoom H4n. Few clips of me walking about on it, discussing the different audio interface drivers as well.
Be aware, mine shipped with a broken pre-amp on one of the channels, but the rest sounds reasonably good. I would say personally that the preamps for the price are fairly quiet. If you want something quieter, you probably need a tascam or the sound devices Mixpre.
REview here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35366916/h6_review.mp3
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Guys, full length audio review of the zoom H6 that I did when the unit came out.
tests the internal XY, the MS mic and i've compared it with the LS-100 and the Zoom H4n. Few clips of me walking about on it, discussing the different audio interface drivers as well.
Be aware, mine shipped with a broken pre-amp on one of the channels, but the rest sounds reasonably good. I would say personally that the preamps for the price are fairly quiet. If you want something quieter, you probably need a tascam or the sound devices Mixpre.
REview here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35366916/h6_review.mp3
Thanks, Zonic, for the brilliant podcast -- I really enjoyed it.
As someone who owns a few dynamic mics -- namely the Beyerdynamic M58 and M99, I should add that the H6 brings nothing to the table that the LS-100 can't offer. That is, with both mics the H6 is almost as noisy as the LS-100. Having tested the H6 for a few days, I decided that the H6 isn't my cup of tea given the fact that I didn't need more than 2 channels and that its preamps are quite similar to those of the LS-100 with mid-to-low-output dynamics. Now if it had been my first purchase of that sort, I probably would have selected the H6 -- the H6 also has noticeably quieter internal mics compared with those of the LS-100.
It's worth mentioning that Neal Ewers has recorded a fantastic H6 podcast which can be found on BlindCoolTech. He also likes the H6 for its multi-channel capabilities and quieter internal XY mics. I myself want to go the Sony PCM-D100 route to have it combined with my Sound Devices USBPre2 which offers superior preamps compared with the LS-100 and the H4N/H6. That way I can also take advantage of the D100's superior internal mics where applicable.
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Put your wallets away. Seems like there's no phantom power on board. Or if there is, there's no mention of it and no physical switches. Would have to be a menu option if present.
There is no phantom power if you use a TRS plug instead of XLR plug on channels 1 to 4 on the Zoom H6. Yes, channels 5 and 6 have no phantom power even with XLR. So maybe that is what you were experiencing. There seems to be nothing explicit about the lack of TRS phantom power in the manual.
My M-Audio Microtrack II does support phantom power on TRS, and I have been using it for years without problems. Apparently many recorders don't do this for fear of shorting the connection while plugging or unplugging the TRS connector. Usually the phantom power is current limited so a short would not hurt, but you can simply turn things off while making connections, if in doubt. If some equipment down the line gets a pop, that might happen. However, even the inputs should have diodes to protect from static electricity zaps, so a momentary 48 volt stored charge from the microphone should not hurt. So, I am not sure why there is so much paranoia about this.
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I had an opportunity to give this unit a half dozen field tests for shows and during the shows, made changes to the settings to understand the machine better. I can now give a report.
What I Like:
--Full Size VU Meters for All Channels. Unlike the Tascam DR-2D, the Zoom H6 shows every channel in the screen. VUs are not terribly accurate.
--Fully Functioning 6 Channel Unit. I got the optional XLR Head which gives more precise volume metering than the X-Y Head with the TRS input, and is slightly smaller.
--Easy to Operate. Turn it on, "arm" the channels, and press record is all you really have to do. You can adjust the gain on the fly if you want. This is not a complicated unit, so if you don't like to read manuals, this machine will be perfect for you.
--Analog Style Gain Knobs. No gain switch like other machines, this one has actual gain knobs.
--Gator Box Makes a Custom Box for the Unit. Gator Box makes a dedicated case for the Zoom H6 which holds the unit, both heads, batteries, SD Cards, the Manual, the optional XLR head, and a pile of cables. Its about twice the size of the stock case, but the stock case will not accommodate the extra head and cables.
--Stereo Setting. Two of the channels can be married together to make a stereo recording. Perfect for an audience capture.
--Most Functions are on One Side. Other than the gain knobs, the power, hold, and headphone plug are all on the same side, which make using the thing, in the dark or inside a bag, fairly straightforward.
--Battery Life is About 6 Hours, Enough for Any Show.
What I Dislike
--Size. This is a bit of a beast. I've stealthed this unit, but not in a pocket. You'll need a bag, fanny pack, or a large cargo pocket to operate.
--Weight. This unit is heavy.
--XLR Inputs. This really adds to the bulk, because you'll need to have some one make up cables for you which are right angle XLR or quarter inch phono plugs. Would have preferred TRS inputs.
--No Line Inputs. This is a PITA. Personally, I think the preamps are crap, so I would really like to bypass them, but you can't.
--Hot Preamps. The preamps really boost the signal. I have no way of measuring it but if the Pad Switch is any indicator, the unit boosts the gain by at least 20-30 db. So without the Pads on, I was between 1-2 on the gain knobs, and the slightest movement of them boosted the gain considerably.
--Use the Pad Switch. As a consequence for most of my stuff, I had to use the -20db Pad Switches and at that point, the volume setting on the unit, using Schoeps > NBox was between 5-7. 7 was pretty hot and 5 was awfully low. But its somewhere in there. For wireless feeds, no pad is necessary, for soundboards, I which are usually pretty hot, I would want to use the pad.
--Improper Volume Settings Made Weird Recordings. I had to try a number of settings before the Schoeps with an NBox sounded decent, and many of the settings resulted in a muffled and distant sounding tape.
--VUs Are Not Terribly Accurate. When I was recording and the VUs said -12db without the pad switch, it was really more like -16, which threw me off. With the Pad Switch engaged, the VUs are a little better, but the unit likes to clip, so -6 is about as hot as I would go.
--No Digital in or Out.
--Hold Switch Does Not Lock Volumes. Bring some tape for the gain knobs. Given the fact that they are super sensitive, and the slightest movement of them causes huge jumps in volume, perhaps its a good thing the hold switch does not lock those knobs. I don't know, you be the judge there.
Best Application and Use for Unit
This would be a nice unit to use to capture a stereo audience recording plus wireless or soundboard feeds, and you don't have to bring in two recorders, nor time align the files. If you are just making audience tapes, pass on this one and go for a Sony M-10, unless you like the option of making multi-channels later.