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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Nick's Picks on June 01, 2016, 10:29:51 PM
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just wondering......hypothetically ... if you had to strip down to a single deck...and you had really good mics for the assumed XLRs that make two of the four channels ....
what's your choice?
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I like the/my R44 better than anything else I've seen in person. Easy menus, transparent sound, inputs are XLR/TRS combos. AA batteries are a downside, but it's easy to externally power.
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Sonosax SX-R4+
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The 744 is an absolute beast. Even with all the newer Sound Devices recorders out today, the 744 still gets tons of respect in the location sound/film world. I have one in excellent/almost mint condition for sale if you want it lol.
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^ 744 if $ not a problem.
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The 744 is an absolute beast. Even with all the newer Sound Devices recorders out today, the 744 still gets tons of respect in the location sound/film world. I have one in excellent/almost mint condition for sale if you want it lol.
Love my 744 but you only get 2 XLR inputs with pres.
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The 744 is an absolute beast. Even with all the newer Sound Devices recorders out today, the 744 still gets tons of respect in the location sound/film world. I have one in excellent/almost mint condition for sale if you want it lol.
Love my 744 but you only get 2 XLR inputs with pres.
Yes, only two pre's but the TA3-F connectors are basically "mini xlr's", so 4 xlr inputs, with the adapters. Plus he said...
"...and you had really good mics for the assumed XLRs that make two of the four channels ...."
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The 744 is an absolute beast. Even with all the newer Sound Devices recorders out today, the 744 still gets tons of respect in the location sound/film world. I have one in excellent/almost mint condition for sale if you want it lol.
Love my 744 but you only get 2 XLR inputs with pres.
Yes, only two pre's but the TAF-3 connectors are basically "mini xlr's", so 4 xlr inputs, with the adapters. Plus he said...
"...and you had really good mics for the assumed XLRs that make two of the four channels ...."
Missed that, then yes...744!
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744 is a great value for less than 2Gs.
But if price isn't an issue...SX-R4+
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^ 744 if $ not a problem.
Or the lack of a hold button. :facepalm:
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Or the lack of a hold button. :facepalm:
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/758878/Sound-Devices-744t.html?page=10
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^ 744 if $ not a problem.
Or the lack of a hold button. :facepalm:
You've mentioned this before. Don't know where you are getting your info from, but you're dead wrong. The 7xx series *does* indeed have a hold function. I can power on the deck, hit record, and lock it in about 5 seconds. Another 10-20 seconds to set levels. The rest of the show I just chill near the bag to make sure no one dumps a rack of suds on it or tackles the stand.
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^ 744 if $ not a problem.
Or the lack of a hold button. :facepalm:
You've mentioned this before. Don't know where you are getting your info from, but you're dead wrong. The 7xx series *does* indeed have a hold function. I can power on the deck, hit record, and lock it in about 5 seconds. Another 10-20 seconds to set levels. The rest of the show I just chill near the bag to make sure no one dumps a rack of suds on it or tackles the stand.
bingo!!
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^ 744 if $ not a problem.
Or the lack of a hold button. :facepalm:
You've mentioned this before. Don't know where you are getting your info from, but you're dead wrong. The 7xx series *does* indeed have a hold function. I can power on the deck, hit record, and lock it in about 5 seconds. Another 10-20 seconds to set levels. The rest of the show I just chill near the bag to make sure no one dumps a rack of suds on it or tackles the stand.
bingo!!
yes, the hold functionality most definitely works on the 7xx's. I have used it hundreds of times in stealth situations and wouldn't use a 7xx without this feature.
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Not to mention the clean gain and excellent metering.
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^ 744 if $ not a problem.
Or the lack of a hold button. :facepalm:
You've mentioned this before. Don't know where you are getting your info from, but you're dead wrong. The 7xx series *does* indeed have a hold function. I can power on the deck, hit record, and lock it in about 5 seconds. Another 10-20 seconds to set levels. The rest of the show I just chill near the bag to make sure no one dumps a rack of suds on it or tackles the stand.
He might be mistaking the 744 for the zoom F8, which has a completely useless hold function as currently designed.
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What about the best low priced 4ch deck? Particularly with very good mic preamps?
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What about the best low priced 4ch deck? Particularly with very good mic preamps?
Used R-44. ;D
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What about the best low priced 4ch deck? Particularly with very good mic preamps?
That depends on your definition of "low priced" and "very good preamps". What is your budget and what are you recording? There are a quite a few units with good built-in preamps nowadays, but some of the more expensive options might be more than you need. I want a SD 788, but I don't need it. (...and it's a moot point since I can't afford it.)
The DR-70D is far from perfect but hard to beat for the price. Currently on sale for $210 at B&H. I had mine upgraded which cost about another $135 because I wanted a bit more transparency for what I do, but if you're doing louder amplified stuff the stock preamps are more than up to the task.
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This is actually an incredibly soft spot in the market right now. The only two decks not disqualified for being play school toys are:
R-44
744T
Unfortunately, both these decks are ancient and the only other options on the market are 6-8 channels or cost north of $5000, falling into the unrealistic category. Sound Devices really needs to stop working on mixers and update their recorder line. I would also love to see some new players *coughgracecough." Still crossing my fingers for that V4.
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This is actually an incredibly soft spot in the market right now. The only two decks not disqualified for being play school toys are:
R-44
744T
Unfortunately, both these decks are ancient and the only other options on the market are 6-8 channels or cost north of $5000, falling into the unrealistic category. Sound Devices really needs to stop working on mixers and update their recorder line. I would also love to see some new players *coughgracecough." Still crossing my fingers for that V4.
Sure, Sound Devices needs to get moving on a revamped 7-series, but I had to laugh at the bold statements above. I could send you quite a few very good recordings I've made with my "play school toys" as I'm sure could many, many other members here. Not everyone has the scratch for Sound Devices, Sonosax, Nagra and such. And there's no need to spend anywhere near $5000 for high-quality recording 6-8 channels or above, unless you are a professional and need all of the features of those highest-level units and/or the very best built-in preamps. Obvious examples at much lower cost are DR-680, HS-P82, Zoom F8... etc.
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I'm sure I''l get slammed for this but I say the Tascam Dr70d.
It's $200. Use a card on the approved list and it's rock solid.
Save your money for transducers.
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Never saw a compelling reason to go for anything other than my R-44 for field recording. I'd rather invest in a good preamp and better mics.
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I'm solidly in the Edirol/Roland R-44 camp when it comes to a reasonably priced, reliable 4-channel recorder. I've had mine for just about 8 years and it hasn't given me a lick of trouble in that time. Works every time, all the time, with any SD card I've thrown at it. Solid as a rock. If I have to ding the R-44 for anything it's that it can't (I believe) handle a card any larger than 32 GB. But even with those you'll still get over 12 hours of recording time on 4 tracks at 24/48.
If I could afford, or rationalize, purchasing a Sound Devices 744/788 I would probably grab one. But even in the used market they are more than twice what a new R-44 costs.
With the decks that will work flawlessly as long as you stick to the approved SD card list, that's fine and I'm glad for the folks that are very happy with their recorders. What makes me uneasy about that is the "what if": your card craps out and you don't have a backup, you need to purchase another that day for a show that night, there are a few available but you cannot find one that's on the approved list. Roll the dice on a non-approved card? Might be a silly scenario, but with all the other random variables that a taper has to worry about in a typical situation, the last thing I want to be concerned with is whether or not the card in my deck is going to give me issues. My .02 cents.
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Agreed but always carry spares of whatever is reasonable price-wise and weight & volume-wise. SD cards are cheap now.
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is there a 4 channel recorder that can accept two different mini-plugs as sources??.... so I can run both tinybox rigs into one recorder rather than having to use two r-05's....
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is there a 4 channel recorder that can accept two different mini-plugs as sources??.... so I can run both tinybox rigs into one recorder rather than having to use two r-05's....
All of them can. Connector format is trivial, you just need the appropriate adapter cables.
If you wanted to run into an XLR input, the only thing to watch out for would be engaging phantom, otherwise the inputs are more than happy to accept the Tinybox's unbalanced TRS output.
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is there a 4 channel recorder that can accept two different mini-plugs as sources??.... so I can run both tinybox rigs into one recorder rather than having to use two r-05's....
All of them can. Connector format is trivial, you just need the appropriate adapter cables.
If you wanted to run into an XLR input, the only thing to watch out for would be engaging phantom, otherwise the inputs are more than happy to accept the Tinybox's unbalanced TRS output.
that's a good point.... so then I'm wondering if any of them actually have two separate mini-ins??
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SXR4+ if $$ is no concern, even though Ive only heard 1 single show from it :P Im basing this decision based on the older SXR4 and how good its preamps sounded, so Im sure the SXR4+ is right up there!
Tascam 70D[with APPROVED SD card :P] if $$ IS a concern ;) It does 4 channel and has Phantom on ALL 4 XLR inputs!!! Its a stripped down deck with just what you need from it to get by, without a ton of options to sort through! I did wish it had better metering and monitoring, but for what it is and how good it sounds, its easily the best 4 channel deck out there for the $$ IMO! As always, YMMV! But I have [2] 70D's and they have treated me very good so far 8)
The 744 is old news IMO, and sounds as good as most cheaper decks do now IMO! Not a bad thing, I just think that preamps have come a long way since the 744/722 came out! Not to mention it only has 2 inputs with Phantom Power :P But reliability-wise, the 7xx is HARD to beat! The 788 preamps sound a little better to me than the 744/722/702 preamps, but that could just be in my head lol :P ;D And obviously, the SD metering is the BEST out there! That said, I wouldn't turn down a free 744 ;D
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And, of course, there's the Zoom H6, 4 channels on board and 6 channels with the 3.5mm socket on the XY mic module or add on XLR module.
Preamps perfectly good enough for music and dialogue, if you want to record a flea sneezing, maybe not :)
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is there a 4 channel recorder that can accept two different mini-plugs as sources??.... so I can run both tinybox rigs into one recorder rather than having to use two r-05's....
Tascam DR2d natively accepts two stereo mini plug inputs. Most importantly it is basically same size as an R-05. It similarly replaced the use of two R-09s for me.
I would not call it the best 4ch deck by any stretch of the imagination. However it is the smallest recorder capable of 4 channels, the only one I can comfortably fit into a pant pocket, and the IR remote allows for transport control with the recorder stashed away and on hold, two features which make make it uniquely suited to what I use it for. It's gain control is very limited, but the external preamps take care of that, it's metering is good featuring a numerical readout as well as a bar-graph, and it's ADC is improved significantly over the R-09's to the point where I'm completely satisfied with the quality of it for whatever music I'm recording.
Since I'm always recording 4 or more channels, the move from using two separate 2-channel recorders to using a single four (or more) channel recorder was perhaps the single most important change in ease of recording of any I've made. Less important overall but an important subsequent step of that evolution was getting Chris Church to build me a 4ch CA-UGLY so that I could move from using two separate preamps to a single pre, greatly simplifying all associated wiring and pocket bulk. That rig is now simplified and compact enough that a few times I have carried two Dr2ds in the same pant pocket to enable recording of more than 4 channels, along with a second preamp. A single IR remote will control both recorders simultaneously.
In that way although DR2d is certainly not the best 4ch recorder in a general sense, it is the only solution I've found which works for this application, and thus ranks defacto best by default.
For open recording I switch to using an OCM R-44 or DR-680, both of which provide balanced inputs and phantom power.
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The 744 is an absolute beast. Even with all the newer Sound Devices recorders out today, the 744 still gets tons of respect in the location sound/film world. I have one in excellent/almost mint condition for sale if you want it lol.
Love my 744 but you only get 2 XLR inputs with pres.
I don't care if it's long in the tooth or only has two pres: it's the best festival deck for 4 ch. I'm using it all summer at a weekly music series--2 channels of board and 2 channels of Schoeps. If I need it, I have the 442.
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Zaxcom Maxx seems forgotten in the taper world, but certainly worth consideration as an excellent sounding 4-pre recorder.
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I'm sure I''l get slammed for this but I say the Tascam Dr70d.
It's $200. Use a card on the approved list and it's rock solid.
Save your money for transducers.
Upgrade that firmware to 1.14, and this is the rock-solid advice that most people should listen to. (Cost-no-object crowd, yes, I love your SD and 'Sax machines!)
hey, BEST best? Spend LOTS of money and get fractionally better results. My ears say "go get sushi and run the Tascam, now that it's reliable enough (1.13 or 1.14 firmware seems stable, and BOY do I like sushi.)"
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^ Good to hear that you aren't having any more problems! Your trust factor is high now, with the new firmware?
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^ Good to hear that you aren't having any more problems! Your trust factor is high now, with the new firmware?
My thoughts as well. IIRC, Morst was one of the more vocal criticizers of the DR-70D. Is there a silver lining on that cloud? :)
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Trust? Not exactly, but the DR-70D has not failed on an approved card since 1.12 firmware...
I still run the Sony PCM-M10 separately for every set.
Until I run an infinite number of successful recordings on the Trashcan, I won't be able to trust it. That means never.
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No-one seems to have mentioned the Zoom F8. This records four inputs with duplicates of each as a safety, for a total of eight tracks at 192 kHz. Each has independent limiter (digital only, but configurable), HPF, levels, etc. Dual redundant SD cards too.
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No-one seems to have mentioned the Zoom F8. This records four inputs with duplicates of each as a safety, for a total of eight tracks at 192 kHz. Each has independent limiter (digital only, but configurable), HPF, levels, etc. Dual redundant SD cards too.
Yes, the F8 should be part of the conversation, especially if we're talking about SD decks that are much higher priced. Same goes for the DR-680, a 6-track machine. I always run safety tracks on my 70D when recording 2 channels, and is the main reason I want an 8-channel recorder down the road.
Pretty sure the F8 can't do 192kHz on all 8 channels, but I think it can do 96kHz x 8.
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From Zoom F8 user manual: • Recording of up to 10 tracks simultaneously
Inputs 1–8 and a stereo mix (left and right) can be recorded at the
same time (8 tracks when the sampling rate is 192 kHz).
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Yeah I was pretty amazed at that! I will have my F8 in a couple days and will be testing all the claims... but everyone seems very happy with it.
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From Zoom F8 user manual: • Recording of up to 10 tracks simultaneously
Inputs 1–8 and a stereo mix (left and right) can be recorded at the
same time (8 tracks when the sampling rate is 192 kHz).
OK then, I stand corrected. That's pretty amazing for a $1000 recorder.
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Well, I have done some real-world recording and can report that the Zoom F8 is indeed amazing. The pre-amps held up to various microphones, even working quite well with contact mics. I did some very quiet recordings and can hear nothing the F8 added to the signal chain. With my Tracer battery I got over 12 hours of use on one charge. Details can be found on my blog, Theatre of Noise.
And now we have the new cheaper F4, listing at $650. It would seem that the OPs question is answered!
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Alta 4Minx, one of the best in sound quality, but expensive
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Took delivery of my Zoom F4 last week. Best preamps in any recorder I've ever owned and knock things like the H5 and H6 (which are not that shabby) into a cocked-hat.
For those like me who've come up thru the 'cheap 'n' cheerful' route there's lots to take on board, but more a question of 'how?' rather than 'why/what?'
For the size/quality/price there's little (nothing??) to beat it.... The Tascam DR680 is a worthy 'also-ran'...
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My vote goes to my Zoom F4 as well.