Topic: Recorder for taping college classroom lectures?

[tugs]

Hi all,

This thread is borne out of suggestions to the questions I asked in another thread: What are ye learned folks' thoughts on a suitable handheld recorder for college lectures?

- Lectures will take place in a small-medium size classroom setting (maybe 30-50 desks), with ambiant laptop tip-tappery etc. I probably won't look to sit directly up the front for the following reason:

- I will most likely have to hide the recorder, either in the top of my bag on the floor, or in some sort of sound-permeable fabric bag on my desk (anyone got any suggestions on this too?)

- Variable playback rate/pitch control would be good as I'll be listening to lectures during commuting to/from work every day (~3 hours in all), and getting more listening crammed in would be an efficient way to use my time.

- Pre-record buffer would also be nice, but probably not essential.

At present I'm leaning towards the Sony pcm-m10 as it ticks a lot of boxes, and looks rather inconspicuous as a recorder. Im also afraid of buying something that lacks recording quality, as I'm not sure if lappel mics are used in lectures, in fact I doubt it.

I appreciate any advice anyone can give!

[JD]

I used my Edirol r09 for recording class lectures. Mostly ran it with the internal mics in a shirt pocket and had great results. Some times I would just sit it on my desk out in the open, none of the professors would care, but I would often get requests from other students for copies of the recordings when they saw what I was doing.

Ran the limiter(AGC) to keep the levels somewhat even and recorded to a low rate MP3 format so I could fit a semester's worth of classes on a single SD card. Wasn't really worried about the quality, just wanted it to be good enough to be understood. The size of the MP3 files made it easier to share with classmates as well.

[page]

- Lectures will take place in a small-medium size classroom setting (maybe 30-50 desks), with ambiant laptop tip-tappery etc. I probably won't look to sit directly up the front for the following reason:

- I will most likely have to hide the recorder, either in the top of my bag on the floor, or in some sort of sound-permeable fabric bag on my desk (anyone got any suggestions on this too?)

A small hat maybe. How about a thin cloth bag to carry your laptop in and sew a pocket made out of speaker cloth on the side where the recorder will sit (and just put the laptop bag under your laptop on the desk). A pen/pencil bag that many kids use in K-12 with a pocket sewn on would work as well and wouldn't look out of place. The laptop largely acts as a decoy in most of the methods I can think of during the lecture.

Prof said no recording (but they allow laptops)? I've recorded lectures and stuff with my h120 before and as long as I approach the prof beforehand (and have my spiel ready) and pay attention during class, I've never had someone say no in the 3 or 4 classes I did it in.

- Variable playback rate/pitch control would be good as I'll be listening to lectures during commuting to/from work every day (~3 hours in all), and getting more listening crammed in would be an efficient way to use my time.

An alternative is to use the laptop to control pitch/speed. In that aspect, if you can have a laptop, get a set of lapel mics, wrap them in speaker cloth, and record directly onto your laptop.

- Pre-record buffer would also be nice, but probably not essential.

I wouldn't worry about this. If you are truely worried about not being seen with a recorder, then I'd advise hitting record before you walk in anyway.

edit: shirt pocket was where I was headed as well like JD mentions, spaced and forgot for some reason.

[rhinowing]

-shirt pocket
-your laptop may have intermal mics. see if opening up something like audacity and hitting record does anything...I've used this to record some rough demos and whatnot, so I'm sure it would be fine for voice

[tugs]

Thanks so far guys...

I had considered the laptop thing, but realistically I tend to batter all hell out of the keyboard when Im typing (I will also be typing notes), and it would probably ruin the recording (internal lappy mics seem to be pretty bad at the best of times).

[setboy]

I use a DR-1 from tascam to this very thing. It gets the job done well!
As far as placement goes I either have it in between my legs (just don't let it fall) or on top of my bag for big lecture where there the teacher is mic'ed and I can sit by one of the speakers and aim my mics upward towards it.
In between your legs makes for some muffled recordings but you're not recording music so who cares.

Edit: I don't like using a shirt pocket because i move too much as i take notes.
And this taping is like all other taping; location makes a differences

let use know what you come up with 

[imgoinmad]

I found that most professors won't mind if you record lectures, just make sure you ask permission first. I found that the hard way when I once got chewed out by a professor for recording without asking...I think I pissed him off when I fell asleep in class....DOH!

[tugs]

^^^

Yeah, I have been thinking the same thing regarding permisison etc.

Ordinarily I doubt it would be an issue (if it were just regular common gardener "English" etc university lectures) - but I'm going to be attending a fairly prestigious law school, which has numerous lecturers with copyrighted course material. Prosecution/expulsion for theft of this was a threat that was levelled at last year's students apparently.

I'll most likely be looking to hide the recorder from the other students as much as I would the lecturer. Random students approaching me and asking me to distribute copyrighted material is not a road I want to go down... especially in a law school.

[Shadow_7]

Reminds me of the furby ban at the CIA stuff.  Perhaps hide a recorder in a stuffed animal.  Mascot of whatever school your in.  Put mics where the ears would be.  Maybe some clamp action so you don't accidentally knock him off the side of the desk.  A belt clip to lob him onto your backpack.  Seems like most options would suffer from battery life issues IMO.  I've had a number of 4 hour (weekly) lectures in my lifetime.  It's kind of hard to stealth a battery change.

Not that I'm sure what use recordings would be in the first place.  Outside of sleeping through class and listening to it when you might otherwise be sleeping in the first place.  Back in the day, I was in class 80 hours a week.  I didn't have 80 other hours to listen to any recordings I might/could have made.  Most of my off hours spent doing things other than school to keep me sane and therefor still in school.  Or just sleeping so come test time, I could at least read/understand the test question and therefor up the odds of getting it right, even if I had no clue what the correct answer was.

[tugs]

Reminds me of the furby ban at the CIA stuff.  Perhaps hide a recorder in a stuffed animal.  Mascot of whatever school your in.  Put mics where the ears would be.  Maybe some clamp action so you don't accidentally knock him off the side of the desk.  A belt clip to lob him onto your backpack.  Seems like most options would suffer from battery life issues IMO.  I've had a number of 4 hour (weekly) lectures in my lifetime.  It's kind of hard to stealth a battery change.

Not that I'm sure what use recordings would be in the first place.  Outside of sleeping through class and listening to it when you might otherwise be sleeping in the first place.  Back in the day, I was in class 80 hours a week.  I didn't have 80 other hours to listen to any recordings I might/could have made.  Most of my off hours spent doing things other than school to keep me sane and therefor still in school.  Or just sleeping so come test time, I could at least read/understand the test question and therefor up the odds of getting it right, even if I had no clue what the correct answer was.

I'll bear the furby plan in mind!

The battery life on the m10 is apparently ridonkulous, and you would get a 4 hour lecture recorded (several, actually) easily without having to change the batts.

The reason I would be recording them is that the course is at night, 4 days a week, and I will be working a full time job, and have 3 hours per day on the train to kill. This would be a perfect opportunity to refresh the course material rather than listening to whatever crappens to be in the charts that week over and over again.

[flintstone]

For voice recording, there's no need to spend $275 for a Sony PCM-M10. The Tascam DR-07 is on clearance for about $140 at many outlets.  For example,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html

[tugs]

For voice recording, there's no need to spend $275 for a Sony PCM-M10. The Tascam DR-07 is on clearance for about $140 at many outlets.  For example,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html

Thanks for that...

The only problem with something like that Tascam is that it's blatantly a recorder. The m10 looks a lot like a smartphone or an mp3 player like the creative zen vision m. The hidden stereo mics are a big selling point for me at this point.

Which would have better recording quality? Sony M10 or Tascam DR-07?

Thanks!

[setboy]

For voice recording, there's no need to spend $275 for a Sony PCM-M10. The Tascam DR-07 is on clearance for about $140 at many outlets.  For example,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html

Thanks for that...

The only problem with something like that Tascam is that it's blatantly a recorder. The m10 looks a lot like a smartphone or an mp3 player like the creatize zen vision m. The hidden stereo mics are a big selling point for me at this point.

Which would have better recording quality? Sony M10 or Tascam DR-07?

Thanks!

I think you would be surprised by how many people think my tascam is a calculator/mp3 player/phone. But i am sure there are people who do/would know what it is.

[tugs]

For voice recording, there's no need to spend $275 for a Sony PCM-M10. The Tascam DR-07 is on clearance for about $140 at many outlets.  For example,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html

Thanks for that...

The only problem with something like that Tascam is that it's blatantly a recorder. The m10 looks a lot like a smartphone or an mp3 player like the creatize zen vision m. The hidden stereo mics are a big selling point for me at this point.

Which would have better recording quality? Sony M10 or Tascam DR-07?

Thanks!

I think you would be surprised by how many people think my tascam is a calculator/mp3 player/phone. But i am sure there are people who do/would know what it is.

It would be the protruding internal(ish) mics that would give it away for me. I'm sure the lecturers would be well-schooled (no pun) on what to look for too.

[setboy]

For voice recording, there's no need to spend $275 for a Sony PCM-M10. The Tascam DR-07 is on clearance for about $140 at many outlets.  For example,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html

Thanks for that...

The only problem with something like that Tascam is that it's blatantly a recorder. The m10 looks a lot like a smartphone or an mp3 player like the creatize zen vision m. The hidden stereo mics are a big selling point for me at this point.

Which would have better recording quality? Sony M10 or Tascam DR-07?

Thanks!

I think you would be surprised by how many people think my tascam is a calculator/mp3 player/phone. But i am sure there are people who do/would know what it is.

It would be the protruding internal(ish) mics that would give it away for me. I'm sure the lecturers would be well-schooled (no pun) on what to look for too.

don't let them see it then

[petur]

- Variable playback rate/pitch control would be good as I'll be listening to lectures during commuting to/from work every day (~3 hours in all), and getting more listening crammed in would be an efficient way to use my time.

- Pre-record buffer would also be nice, but probably not essential.

Rockbox

[DSatz]

Maybe this is perfectly obvious, but make sure that you record stereo. If you're forced to record from a bad position in the room (too far from the person speaking), stereo recording and (just as important) stereo headphones for playback will let your ears/brain do the remarkable, seemingly impossible thing that ears and brains can do in filtering out undesirable sound sources and zeroing in on what you want to hear. That doesn't work nearly as well with mono recordings or with loudspeaker playback.

--best regards

[MikeMannZ]

buy the m10...you're over thinking this.... take it from someone who did.

Mike

[rastasean]

Lots of good advice here. What did the OP end up going with?

[tugs]

Lots of good advice here. What did the OP end up going with?

I probably wont be buying until July, at which point I think it's the m10 all the way. It seems to have gone up in price in the last 2 weeks though 

[rastasean]

Lots of good advice here. What did the OP end up going with?

I probably wont be buying until July, at which point I think it's the m10 all the way. It seems to have gone up in price in the last 2 weeks though 

What has gone up in price? the m10 will be the same at b&h until end of june.

[kfrinkle]

Being a professor myself, I have no problems with taping in the classroom.  In fact, there have been a couple of courses this last year where I actually recorded the lectures myself.

That being said, you paid for the course, it is part of your studying practice and should be able to do so regardless of copyright.  You are PAYING the copyright by paying tuition.

[earmonger]

If you really want stealth:

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/dp4802.html

Just upload it to your laptop and do all your pitch/speed control there.

[neumannu47]

Believe it or not, the Sansa Fuze, an MP3 player, has an excellent built-in voice recorder function. Unfortunately, the Version 2 units (all you can get now) have a hardware design flaw that allows a very low level ticking to get into the audio. It records 24kHz 16bit mono wave files. The crappy little mic picks up amazing well. When I was in law school, I used a Marantz cassette with an external boundary mic, with the professors' permission. The intelligibility was excellent.

The reason I mention the Sansa Fuze is that there is a possibility that not all of the units have the ticking problem. Some users on another board have suggested that the Version 1 units don't have the problem. If you can find one without the ticking, it will cost you about $50. It is VERY small and unobtrusive. I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in the recording quality between the Fuze and an M10.

If you have a portable MP3 player, check to see if it has a voice-record function on it. If it does, try it. You might be very surprised.