Topic: 4 mic recording question.

[airbladder]

I am going to see further tonight and will be taping from the lawn.  Looking to run a 4 Mic rig and was looking for feedback.  I have neumann u89s and 140s for mics, v2 and psp3 for pres, a mytek adc, and ocm r44 for a deck. 

I was thinking about running the u89s figure 8 blumline (spelling?) > v2 > mytek> r44, and 140 nos> psp3> ocm r44.

I was going to run the 89s sub/nos with the 140s xy but felt like doing something new.  I also left my xy mount for the 140s home.

Just for fun, let me know what you think and what kind of 4mic configs you run outside. 

[TNJazz]

I'd run the U89's omni. 

I think you're going to be much too far away for a good blumlein recording.

[hi and lo]

I'd run the U89's omni. 

This.

I also wouldn't run the 140s XY or NOS. I hated my 140s XY (and dislike that pattern in general); they're much better ORTF, DIN, or DINa.

YMMV

[NOLAfishwater]

I would run the 89's split A/B (pointed forward to the stage) and the 140's DIN.

[Gutbucket]

I would run the 89's split A/B (pointed forward to the stage) and the 140's DIN.

+1

The challenge is figuring out a way to get enough distance between the split U89's.  I'd shoot for 3'-4' or so.  A second mic stand or clamping to a neighbor's stand are two options. 

[bryonsos]

I would run the 89's split A/B (pointed forward to the stage) and the 140's DIN.

+1

The challenge is figuring out a way to get enough distance between the split U89's.  I'd shoot for 3'-4' or so.  A second mic stand or clamping to a neighbor's stand are two options.
[/quote

I thought 40cm (~17.5 in) was adequate for omni spacing?

[Gutbucket]

Adequate, optimal, and sucky are all relative positions on the non-linear continuum of personal preference.

Some run spaced omni splits of 10'-15' or more, some near-space them 10".   I find 3' typically works well when spaced omnis are appropriate.  Sometimes 4'-6' is better, but it's hard to say without knowing details so 3' is a safer bet..  usually close to optimal on my continuum.  If using three omnis, I'd go with 3' between each, total spread of 6'.


A slightly more technical explanation:
The closer the mics, the wider the recording angle picking up direct arriving sounds and reproducing them as phantom sources between the speakers.  If the mics are too close the recording angle is far wider than the apparent angle of the sound sources from your recording position, so the resulting recording sounds narrow and 'overly mono'.  Too close and there is also insufficient decorelation between channels for the ambient, off-axis sound reaching the mics such as the reverb, crowd reaction and reflections.  Decorelation of ambient sound in spaced omni recordings is often described by people as sounding 'big' and 'open'.  Basically, if there is not enough spacing the sound picked up by each mic is too similar for good stereo effect and the results are lackluster and 'sucky'.

Too much spacing and there is not enough similarity between channels and more of the direct sounds appear bunched up around one speaker or the other on playback with little in the middle.  So one needs to find a good balance.  Generally PA reinforced music recordings made from the section are more forgiving of extra spacing between mics than non-PA supported recordings, partially because much of the FOH sound is mono and designed to project far to the back of the venue.  When setup on the center-line, if the distance from left FOH stack to left mic is the same as right FOH stack to right mic, mono information on the PA will sound centered on playback, regardless of what would otherwise be extreme spacing between mics for other situations.

You might consider spacing the mics apart more the farther (Further  ) your recording position is from the stage.  That way, your auditiory recording angle is narrowed to match the narrower visual angle to the sources.

Besides, Phil bombs rock spaced omnis.

[bryonsos]

Thanks! Coincidentally, I bought 4ft of aluminum bar stock tonight to make an omni bar. Originally, I was going to cut it in 1/2 and make 2 with 40cm spacing, but now I'm going to make 1. It won't quite be 4ft, more like 3'10" (on center mic spacing)  when it's done, but there you have it.

[airbladder]

Any info on where to buy a split omni bar?  Ted no longer makes them for ld mics.  I would be willing to make something but don't have a way to thread big pipe.

[TNJazz]

I would be willing to make something but don't have a way to thread big pipe.

That's what she said










sorry. 

[Walstib62]

Any info on where to buy a split omni bar?  Ted no longer makes them for ld mics.  I would be willing to make something but don't have a way to thread big pipe.

Aluminum "c" channel is good because it is light, and you can put bolts/nuts in the channel to secure mounts, and they can slide in the channel to adjust distance between.
Otherwise, Alum. flat bar and drill, baby drill. (that's what Sarah said) You should have a metal supplier in your area.

[Gutbucket]

'C' channel or tubing is more rigid. Flat bar can get wiggly supporting heavy LD mics at a decent spread. 

A quick & simple approach is to use three Windtech clamps on a tube one for each mic & one for center attachment to stand.  The flexibility of placing the calmps anywhere along the tube allows for both asymetrical setups if called for and for other creative rigging use, like clamping the tube to something other than a stand, use as a horizontal mast, etc.  I've a single telescopic lightstand extension that can be used this way and also collapses to slightly over half it's extended length.



[edit-]

I would be willing to make something but don't have a way to thread big pipe.

That's what she said

..and was truthful about being willing, yet obviously lied about the rest.

[airbladder]

Thanks for the info.  I didn't have a lot of time to set up so I went with: OTS U89 (Omni split 18inches)> V2> Mytek + 140 (DIN)> PSP-3> OCM R-44.  Just finished uploading to archive: http://www.archive.org/details/furthur2011-07-19&reCache=1

Most likely I won't have any more open air shows this year.  Figure I can throw together a omni bar with a onstage boom arm and few clamps next time around. 

[Gutbucket]

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[newplanet7]

Here it is fellas!
http://www.archive.org/details/furthur2011-07-19.u89140.guidry.115119.flac16

-todd