Topic: Recording Techniques for sub-optimal positions

[trustthex]

I don't get out much, but have found myself outside/unable to get to the sweet spot a couple of times for whatever reason with mixed results.  What configs do you guys run from sub-optimal positions when running open if you had just cards?  Anything pattern available?

FOB LoC or RoC in line w/ stack

FOB LoC or RoC outside of stack

Behind board

Side of Arena


Thanks!

[F.O.Bean]

PAS-Pointed At Stacks

[noahbickart]

M/S. fix it in post.

[page]

PAS-Pointed At Stacks

+1

The short answer is sometimes increase the spacing between caps to compensate for the drop in angle. Depends on whether or not you're fairly centered or if you're off to one side.

[Gil]

I've had good results with XY @ ~100+ degrees when I'm way off center.

[DigiGal]

M/S. fix it in post.

^^^ or ORTF which gives a realistic stereo image from your location. I'm not a PAS fan but ymmv.

[acidjack]

FOB LoC or RoC in line w/ stack  - I'd point at the stack I was close to.  Haven't tried M/S there though

FOB LoC or RoC outside of stack - Point at the stack

Behind board - M/S, PAS or whatever you were going to do anyway

Side of Arena - Can't say I've ever actually recorded from the side of an arena other than stealth with omnis... but I'd think A/B pointed in the general direction of the sound source myself

[JimmieC]

M/S. fix it in post.

You can do M/S with 2 cardoids?  Don't you need a figure 8 capsule?

[F.O.Bean]

M/S. fix it in post.

You can do M/S with 2 cardoids?  Don't you need a figure 8 capsule?

Yes, you need a fig8 capaule

[DigiGal]

M/S. fix it in post.

You can do M/S with 2 cardoids?  Don't you need a figure 8 capsule?

Yes, you need a fig8 capaule

QFT

[trustthex]

M/S. fix it in post.

You can do M/S with 2 cardoids?  Don't you need a figure 8 capsule?

Yes, you need a fig8 capaule

LOFL!  I did originally ask just cards or anything.


Good reading.  I will have to post a crude paint drawing tomorrow to see if understand some of the advice.  Thanks all!

[trustthex]

The majority of my time taping has been at outdoor/festy type stuff so far; so I've had the ability to get down FOB/DFC most of the time.  I've reviewed a few of my tapes from 2010 and am pretty satisfied with the results I had running DIN when i was FOB/LOC in line with the stack.  I have really liked the results I have gotten when running ORTF DFC & will try that as well (now that I have 2 near duplicate sets of mics).

Last year they changed the stage location/configuration + I had the misfortune of arriving later (etc, etc); which put me outside of the left stack, basically in line w/ the board.  I ended up running XY@90° & modifying the orientation of the mics/stand so that both mics were pointed towards the stage (really, one was pretty much pointed at the soundboard).  This was OK for most of the day, but as the day/drinking progressed; it picked up too much chatter and the headliner is basically unusable.

I am still trying to digest Stereophonic Zoom & related articles, but if I am understanding correctly...  adding spacing between my mics to account for the acute angle will restore some of the soundstage.  Attached is a crude representation of what I believe is PAS. There is an approximate 35~40° angle between the mics from that position, so desired spacing would be ~35cm?

TIA.

[F.O.Bean]

The majority of my time taping has been at outdoor/festy type stuff so far; so I've had the ability to get down FOB/DFC most of the time.  I've reviewed a few of my tapes from 2010 and am pretty satisfied with the results I had running DIN when i was FOB/LOC in line with the stack.  I have really liked the results I have gotten when running ORTF DFC & will try that as well (now that I have 2 near duplicate sets of mics).

Last year they changed the stage location/configuration + I had the misfortune of arriving later (etc, etc); which put me outside of the left stack, basically in line w/ the board.  I ended up running XY@90° & modifying the orientation of the mics/stand so that both mics were pointed towards the stage (really, one was pretty much pointed at the soundboard).  This was OK for most of the day, but as the day/drinking progressed; it picked up too much chatter and the headliner is basically unusable.

I am still trying to digest Stereophonic Zoom & related articles, but if I am understanding correctly...  adding spacing between my mics to account for the acute angle will restore some of the soundstage.  Attached is a crude representation of what I believe is PAS. There is an approximate 35~40° angle between the mics from that position, so desired spacing would be ~35cm?

TIA.

That's a rough place to tape from. I guess I would just use PAS at that location and just hope for the best!

[trustthex]

Looking at my paint again; the size of stage in relation to everything else is totally distorted.  Stage is normal (50') sized; board is 100~120' back, I was probably as far left as far back.... anyway.   

[kindms]

The majority of my time taping has been at outdoor/festy type stuff so far; so I've had the ability to get down FOB/DFC most of the time.  I've reviewed a few of my tapes from 2010 and am pretty satisfied with the results I had running DIN when i was FOB/LOC in line with the stack.  I have really liked the results I have gotten when running ORTF DFC & will try that as well (now that I have 2 near duplicate sets of mics).

Last year they changed the stage location/configuration + I had the misfortune of arriving later (etc, etc); which put me outside of the left stack, basically in line w/ the board.  I ended up running XY@90° & modifying the orientation of the mics/stand so that both mics were pointed towards the stage (really, one was pretty much pointed at the soundboard).  This was OK for most of the day, but as the day/drinking progressed; it picked up too much chatter and the headliner is basically unusable.

I am still trying to digest Stereophonic Zoom & related articles, but if I am understanding correctly...  adding spacing between my mics to account for the acute angle will restore some of the soundstage.  Attached is a crude representation of what I believe is PAS. There is an approximate 35~40° angle between the mics from that position, so desired spacing would be ~35cm?

TIA.

For this I would probably go x/y and have them facing the left stack or not bother and just enjoy the show.

Short shot guns might be helpful but would still be a tough spot.

[stevetoney]

If you're way outside the center, recording with two mics is more about capturing ambience than anything, so i'm not sure your config in that situation is all that important. 

One radical method seldom mentioned here but it really can be effective in resurecting a stereo train wreck is is to take the better sounding of your two cjannels..ie the one pointed at the closer stack.  Copy that to each track, offset one track from the other by a msec or so and then eq each track individually.  You can create a simulated stereo image that can be quite convincing using this technique.  I've had to use this technique now and then if I have a channel drop out issue.  This can be handy when you have only one good track.

[page]

when outside the center or in line with just one stack like in that pic, I'd go for a wider spacing and just AB them at the good stack. The odds it's in stereo is small anyway.

[cashandkerouac]

sometimes the sweetspot isn't where you think it is.  get creative.  some of my best recordings were made is unnusual locations.  those folks in the OTS don't know what they're missing sometimes.   

i used to blindly go to the OTS or a "traditional" FOB position, and sometimes that works out just fine.  but i've also come to learn (with some help from a good friend) there are lots of other good spots (sometimes much better spots) for getting the best pull if you're willing to put in the work.

[F.O.Bean]

sometimes the sweetspot isn't where you think it is.  get creative.  some of my best recordings were made is unnusual locations.  those folks in the OTS don't know what they're missing sometimes.   

i used to blindly go to the OTS or a "traditional" FOB position, and sometimes that works out just fine.  but i've also come to learn (with some help from a good friend) there are lots of other good spots (sometimes much better spots) for getting the best pull if you're willing to put in the work.

Im all about getting the best pull with minimal chatter, said and done!!!!  99% of that time its FOB/DFC in the sweet spot. But I do have a few OTS tapes that rival my FOB sources of the same mic/pre/adc/recorder sources