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Author Topic: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)  (Read 131672 times)

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Offline gewwang

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Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
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Offline KenH

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #242 on: October 25, 2017, 09:23:46 AM »
Didn't realize "they" made XLR pair > 1/8".  Thanks!    :coolguy:
retired

Offline Niux

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #243 on: October 25, 2017, 02:31:59 PM »
Hi to all!
I'm new to the game, hopefully starting with a PCM-M10 if I manage to buy one.
I've read dozens of posts in these threads, but maybe with some questions I can find answers easily.
- What is the best windshield for the PCM-M10? I can't find the Sony one anymore, but online there are for exmaple Rycote 055442, Gutmann MWS-M10, Movo WS-R10/Movo WST-R10....of course the Rycote is more expensive, is it worth the money?
- What about the batteries? Does the PCM-M10 work with the modern rechargeable lithium ones (like these SOEKAVIA Rechargeable Lithium Polymer 1.5V Battery https://i.imgur.com/9UsHGz2.jpg) or better stay with the normal Ni-Mh?

Thank you guys!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 02:49:05 PM by Niux »

Offline lsd2525

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #244 on: October 25, 2017, 03:15:30 PM »
Hi to all!
I'm new to the game, hopefully starting with a PCM-M10 if I manage to buy one.
I've read dozens of posts in these threads, but maybe with some questions I can find answers easily.
- What is the best windshield for the PCM-M10? I can't find the Sony one anymore, but online there are for exmaple Rycote 055442, Gutmann MWS-M10, Movo WS-R10/Movo WST-R10....of course the Rycote is more expensive, is it worth the money?
- What about the batteries? Does the PCM-M10 work with the modern rechargeable lithium ones (like these SOEKAVIA Rechargeable Lithium Polymer 1.5V Battery https://i.imgur.com/9UsHGz2.jpg) or better stay with the normal Ni-Mh?

Thank you guys!

As great as the M10 is, unless you're going to be recording quiet acoustic music, you're going to want some external mics. If you're planning on running internals, you're probably going to be better off with another deck. That being said, I would think the Movo's are going to give you the best bang for the buck. I use a set on my AT4041's and love 'em. I wouldn't waste the money on the Rycote when the M10's mics aren't that great to begin with.

You should be able to grab a set of Church mics or AT853's and a battery box pretty cheap. And make much better recordings. Just my $0.02.
Mics: SKM184's; ADK A51s; AT4041; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-701D

Offline Niux

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #245 on: October 25, 2017, 03:38:11 PM »
You are right, in my post I forgot to specify that I will use the internal mics for field recording (so quiet nature sounds)...here comes the question about the windshield :facepalm:
Thanks anyway, I'm still deciding what external mics :cheers:

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #246 on: October 25, 2017, 04:24:53 PM »
You are right, in my post I forgot to specify that I will use the internal mics for field recording (so quiet nature sounds)...here comes the question about the windshield :facepalm:
Thanks anyway, I'm still deciding what external mics :cheers:

Get some mics with Primo EM172 capsules. They are superb low noise, high sensitivity capsules popular for nature field recordings.
Mics: Sennheiser MKH 8040, Sennheiser MKH 8020, AT BP4025, AT 853 cards, CA CAFS, CA 14 Omnis, CA 11 (Cards + Omnis), Soundman OKM II Classic
Battery Boxes: Sony XLR-1, CA 9200 Preamp, CA Ugly 2 Preamp, CA Ugly BB, Shure FP24
Recorders: Sound Devices MP3, Sony PCM-D100, Sony PCM-D50, Sony PCM-M10, Sony PCM-D10, Roland R-07, Tascam iXJ2

Offline mjwin

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #247 on: October 25, 2017, 05:54:35 PM »
Hi to all!
I'm new to the game, hopefully starting with a PCM-M10 if I manage to buy one.
...

A few thoughts if you're recording nature sounds...

The EM172 capsules are a great suggestion, and they're fairly low noise (14dBA iirc). If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can buy the capsules cheaply and make up your own external mics which will power from the M10's "plug-in-power" just fine.

Interestingly though, the M10's internal mics are themselves actually EM172 omni capsules!  The problem is that they're mounted too close together to give much spatial effect.  One simple DIY approach to improving matters is to make some kind of baffle to put between them. There are a few references to this online if you search.  I used a block of closed cell foam (about 4" square and 1" thick), with a central slit to push over the M10.  This arrangement is rather fiddly to use in earnest in the field, and you then need to fashion some kind of windshield fo fit over it all, but it helps to widen the image by reducing the correlation between the mic signals, and it makes for some interesting experiments.

For recording quiet nature you really have to keep some distance between yourself and the mics, as they really will pick up every breath & rustle of clothing.  Miniature tabletop tripods are useful, especially the ones with the flexible legs which can be bent around objects, as are the various types of clamp often sold for camera mounting

If you buy one of the furry windshields made specifically for the M10, you'll be stuck with the mics as they are with no baffle. I'm not sure there's much practical difference between the brands as, when fitted, you have the option of a) having them fall off or b) covering the display!  The  M10 isn't made for such things in the first place and there's no proper means of attachment.  Even the Rycote mini-windjammer which I used was quite useless from a practical standpoint.  I  found the best option was the aforementioned foam baffle with an old knitted woolen hat pulled over the whole machine!  The baffle also acts as a spacer to keep the fabric away from the mics. Use a dark coloured hat (or knit your own in a camo pattern) and it's ideal for leaving in the woods...

As for batteries, don't bother with the fancy lithium ones. A couple of Eneloops, or anything 2000mAh+ will power the thing for ever.

The M10 is a great little recorder to keep with you in case an interesting soundscape comes up. Just don't leave it out in the rain like i did with mine :(

Offline morst

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #248 on: October 26, 2017, 12:44:42 AM »
I would certainly not purport that this is the BEST option but I believe it is an effective solution, and certainly a good value if it works for you.

I use a regular cheap foam "Clown Nose" windscreen as a cap for the m10. If you want to see the meters, you have to place it just right. I've found that the built-in omni mics are not overly wind sensitive and so this has worked for me when I've used it. They are available in many colors, mine is black.




- What is the best windshield for the PCM-M10? I can't find the Sony one anymore, but online there are for exmaple Rycote 055442, Gutmann MWS-M10, Movo WS-R10/Movo WST-R10....of course the Rycote is more expensive, is it worth the money?
https://toad.social/@morst spoutible.com/morst post.news/@acffhmorst

Offline Niux

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #249 on: October 26, 2017, 02:39:43 AM »
Thank you guys! :bigsmile:

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #250 on: October 26, 2017, 07:37:12 AM »
A few thoughts if you're recording nature sounds...

The EM172 capsules are a great suggestion, and they're fairly low noise (14dBA iirc). If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can buy the capsules cheaply and make up your own external mics which will power from the M10's "plug-in-power" just fine.

Interestingly though, the M10's internal mics are themselves actually EM172 omni capsules!  The problem is that they're mounted too close together to give much spatial effect.  One simple DIY approach to improving matters is to make some kind of baffle to put between them. There are a few references to this online if you search.  I used a block of closed cell foam (about 4" square and 1" thick), with a central slit to push over the M10.  This arrangement is rather fiddly to use in earnest in the field, and you then need to fashion some kind of windshield fo fit over it all, but it helps to widen the image by reducing the correlation between the mic signals, and it makes for some interesting experiments.

For recording quiet nature you really have to keep some distance between yourself and the mics, as they really will pick up every breath & rustle of clothing.  Miniature tabletop tripods are useful, especially the ones with the flexible legs which can be bent around objects, as are the various types of clamp often sold for camera mounting

If you buy one of the furry windshields made specifically for the M10, you'll be stuck with the mics as they are with no baffle. I'm not sure there's much practical difference between the brands as, when fitted, you have the option of a) having them fall off or b) covering the display!  The  M10 isn't made for such things in the first place and there's no proper means of attachment.  Even the Rycote mini-windjammer which I used was quite useless from a practical standpoint.  I  found the best option was the aforementioned foam baffle with an old knitted woolen hat pulled over the whole machine!  The baffle also acts as a spacer to keep the fabric away from the mics. Use a dark coloured hat (or knit your own in a camo pattern) and it's ideal for leaving in the woods...

As for batteries, don't bother with the fancy lithium ones. A couple of Eneloops, or anything 2000mAh+ will power the thing for ever.

The M10 is a great little recorder to keep with you in case an interesting soundscape comes up. Just don't leave it out in the rain like i did with mine :(

Great post. I never realised the M10 capsules were the EM172's, that explains their good overall low noise performance. I've got some sheets of 1cm neoprene foam which I'm now going to experiment with to make a baffle. :)

I would still recommend making some mics with the capsules which would be very cheap, but if you're not handy with a soldering iron you can get get them made up. I'm in the UK and use this company, but I notice they deliver worldwide:

http://micbooster.com/10-clippy-em172-microphones

The advantage of having them separate is that they can give a better stereo separation.  Also the recommended voltage range is 3v-10v and the M10 is going to be supplying 3v, if you can add a battery box you will get better performance and lower noise floor. I have had the external mics out in a forest all night, with my M10 and battery box in a waterproof container.

When using my M10 in the field I use the same Rycote windjammer that I use on my Sony D100. It's larger and covers the whole unit, and I hold it in place with an elastic band, but I find it performs much better than when I just try and cover the mics.
Mics: Sennheiser MKH 8040, Sennheiser MKH 8020, AT BP4025, AT 853 cards, CA CAFS, CA 14 Omnis, CA 11 (Cards + Omnis), Soundman OKM II Classic
Battery Boxes: Sony XLR-1, CA 9200 Preamp, CA Ugly 2 Preamp, CA Ugly BB, Shure FP24
Recorders: Sound Devices MP3, Sony PCM-D100, Sony PCM-D50, Sony PCM-M10, Sony PCM-D10, Roland R-07, Tascam iXJ2

Offline DATBoy

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #251 on: December 13, 2017, 01:15:45 PM »
Perhaps redundant to ask here, but does anyone know if any inside info if Sony plans to replace the M10 with anything since they discontinued it? I wouldn't mind if they made a nice recorder the size of the Olympus LS-P2, just as long as it can handle extremely loud volumes through the internal and external mics with the battery boxes.

The M10 is a great machine. Such a shame that it's a legacy product now.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #252 on: December 13, 2017, 02:19:07 PM »
Afraid don't know but the problem is so many people use their phones as interview recorders that we may not see a replacement from Sony. 

Offline mrfender

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #253 on: December 06, 2018, 10:39:48 AM »
So I picked up one of these as people seem to be dumping them on ebay lately.  I've been using my DR05 and DR22WL for a couple of years and was surprised how small this really is.  I've always wondered if anyone mark tracks as they record?
DR2d, DR-05, DR-22wl, DR-40, DR-44wl, DR-608, PCM-M10, Roland R-07, PCM, PCM-A10
CA-14 card/omni, AT853 cards/omni, Nak CM-300 cards/omni, Line Audio CM4

Offline unidentified

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
« Reply #254 on: December 06, 2018, 10:54:29 AM »
Not me.

 

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