Topic: Mics similar to DPA 402x (a small FET, not actives with mic body)

[Javier Cinakowski]

Are there any mics out there that would be more ecconmoical than the 402x series?

I am aware of the actives on the market, but I want to get a set of mics that has no body's.  I am also aware of the many electrets.....

Anyone know of anyhting?

[JasonSobel]

there's the Schoeps ccm series.  no mic body involved, and very similar in size to the DPA 402x series.  but, on the other hand, I don't know how much more economical they are relative to the DPA's

[audBall]

Milab VM-44 Link ??  or are bodies in the equation?

[audBall]

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71321.0/all.html

good man!

[Javier Cinakowski]

T+ everyone.

Looks like DPA, Schoeps and Milab are about it.  These are all expensive.

[Todd R]

T+ everyone.

Looks like DPA, Schoeps and Milab are about it.  These are all expensive.

The Milab are very nice, but not bodiless.  They are an active system like the Neumann km140's or the Schoeps mk4+CMC6 (not like the CCM's).

[stevetoney]

Three weeks ago, you were selling everything because you owed your wife money, had none, and she was pissed.  This week, you have a new Oade 660 and you're thinking DPA mics. 

Wha'dja do?  Decide to sell the wife instead?

 

[Javier Cinakowski]

Well, I paid off the wife, and got the credit card in check.   Got the wife to spot me for the 660 until I get my work expense check. 

Now I want to sell all of my mics and go with some sort of active system.  I obviously can't come up with the $3000 for the DPA's.

I am just playing the debt game and robbing Peter to pay Paul......

[Todd R]

I have no idea how they sound, but Rode has an active system cardioid -- the NT6.  Again, like the km140s in that the system has a mic body and a separated active capsule head.  Looks to be $370 each new, or less (bhphotovideo say email for lower price).

The Rode mics don't have a very good reputation in the taping community.  I've never listened to any of their products, so I can't offer an opinion, but Rode seems to be the first lower cost mic company coming out with an active system (recent years that is).

[OFOTD]

Don't forget that if you are willing to accept having a body in the chain that the MBHO's are a great deal at a more affordable price than the DPA, Schoeps or Neumann's.

[Ryan Sims]

What are you really going for?  Small size?  The audix are very small and you could just throw a machined-down Hydra or similar set in there and be done with it.  Apologies if this isn't what you're thinking of.

[Javier Cinakowski]

What are you really going for?  Small size?  The audix are very small and you could just through a machined-down Hydra or similar set in there and be done with it.  Apologies if this isn't what you're thinking of.

Yeah, small size is exactly what I am looking for.  I want the best of both worlds, the size of an electret, but the sound of a true condensor....

Thanks for the Audix suggestion, that might be an option...

[bluegrass_brad]

You could also go with the AKG Blueline caps and a 3 wire BBox to power them if you are a DIY'er.  Poorlyconditoned (Richard) did this and it worked very well for him.  relatively inexpensive as well (cost of caps and materials for BBox).

[BobW]

AT E/S 943s are electret, but can be used with a BB or a P48 adapter
I wouldn't put them in the DPA or Schoeps league, but with a slight post EQ curve that takes out some of the schwizzle, they can be quite formidable.
http://www.archive.org/details/DDBB2005-07-28.flac16

<shameless_and_self-serving_plug>
Mine are up in the YS now since I've gone to actives
</shameless_and_self-serving_plug>

[John Willett]

Also worth looking at the new Sennheiser MKH 8000 series - they are TINY.

Take off the XLR connector and use the remote cable and they are even smaller - the mic. itself is only 19mm Ø x 41mm.

I'll be getting a pair soon.

[Gordon]

how about neumann 184's?  very small mic and a great one at that.  they go for around $800-$850 in the yard sale.

[OOK]

I have no idea how they sound, but Rode has an active system cardioid -- the NT6.  Again, like the km140s in that the system has a mic body and a separated active capsule head.  Looks to be $370 each new, or less (bhphotovideo say email for lower price).

The Rode mics don't have a very good reputation in the taping community.  I've never listened to any of their products, so I can't offer an opinion, but Rode seems to be the first lower cost mic company coming out with an active system (recent years that is).

Rode makes a good mic.  Many of the early SKB stage recordings were either a soundfield or Rode NT2's  both soounded fantastic.

As for the mic in question, I would not recomend it for our purposes.  The nt5's, nt55's and nt6's are all basically the same mic.  Let me rephrase that, the nt 5 was the first one to come out oh some many years ago.  It has a steep roll off from 10k to 20k of atleast 10db.  That will make the mic sound real dark, lack of highs for what we do, that is distant taping.  Now up close I mean onstage within a few feet that might sound fine, but again not for what we do as tapers.

The nt55 is the nt5 with exchangable caps(card and omni) and the nt6 is the nt5 as a active set up.  All share the same electronics and steep roll off.   I hope this helps.....JK aka OOK

[BobW]

Also worth looking at the new Sennheiser MKH 8000 series - they are TINY.

Take off the XLR connector and use the remote cable and they are even smaller - the mic. itself is only 19mm Ø x 41mm.

I'll be getting a pair soon.

Thanks for the req. John!
Any word on pricing or availability?
Not too many sightings on this side of the pond.

[F.O.Bean]

Murph, obviously, these are not bodiless, but judging that you are on somewhat of a budget, how about MBHO's Once I run mine thru a bunch of shows, I can give you an opinion of their sound thru my 722(which I think I know how it sounds by now). But the MBHO's are the cheapest active system on the market, also with the best capsule selection besides Schoeps, and have mini-xlr connectors for their actives. This might not mean much for most folks, but I am a good solderer and plan on making my own active cables. This could NEVER be done with Schoeps/Neumann/Milabs(?) proprietary active cables. much cheaper overall, and I think the MBHO's sound great. just like ANY mic, they shine in the sweet spot FOB/DFC. most folks like a warmer preamp behind them, and there are cheap options for that too. an MBHO active>mp2 would be a small yet stealthable setup, without breaking the bank for schoeps capsules(around 1200/pair) when MBHO capsules can be had for around 3-400/pair and the engineer/owner/founder/whatever you want to call him worked with Dr. Schoeps for many years, so Im sure he knows how to build a great sounding, yet affordable mic system, with actives taboot Def might want to check them out bud and you can borrow mine anytime. Thats the beauty of having 2 sets of mics I'm sure one pair or the other will be out on loan Anyone in Team Pittsburgh is welcome to my gear, especially you Murph

The MBHO's are definitely WAY overlooked IMO and I dont know why I hope they are the right match with my 722 tho

[Roger Gustavsson]

Yeah, small size is exactly what I am looking for.  I want the best of both worlds, the size of an electret, but the sound of a true condensor....

Thanks for the Audix suggestion, that might be an option...

The DPA 4020-series are electrets, not condensor. Their maximum SPL is limited to 110 dB. Schoeps CCM 2 are condensor mics. Both are expensive. Milab VM-44 Link are cheaper, about $ 700/each here in Sweden, but they are not that small. Sennheiser MKH 8000 will probably be very expensive... MBHO MBP 648 A are $530/each, http://www.atlasproaudio.com/mbho.html.

Roger Gustavsson

[Javier Cinakowski]

Thanks everyone!

[Todd R]

The DPA 4020-series are electrets, not condensor. Their maximum SPL is limited to 110 dB.

No, actually the listed maximum SPL level for the 4022 is 145db before clipping.  DPA uses 110db at the SPL at which they spec their THD figure, but they can take a much higher SPL.

[Roger Gustavsson]

That is correct but the Schoeps CCM 2 will allow 130 dB at 0.5% THD. DPA 4022 are on par with the Church modified Panasonic capsules (he states 114 dB at 0.3% THD). I never record at these levels, only recording acoustic music and never near field pickup.

[thegreatgumbino]

DPA 4022 are on par with the Church modified Panasonic capsules (he states 114 dB at 0.3% THD).

Maybe in terms of db on paper.  Big difference between $$$$ DPA's and Chris' mics.  Not a dig against Chris' mics at all, as they are great for the money, but they aren't on the same level as the DPA's.  Just wanted to clarify for those less informed. 

[Roger Gustavsson]

Yes, you are probably right! Difference in price? Yes!

[John Willett]

Also worth looking at the new Sennheiser MKH 8000 series - they are TINY.

Take off the XLR connector and use the remote cable and they are even smaller - the mic. itself is only 19mm Ø x 41mm.

I'll be getting a pair soon.

Thanks for the req. John!
Any word on pricing or availability?
Not too many sightings on this side of the pond.

First production run at the end of this month I understand.

UK price is £745 each (£1,395 a stereo pair) as opposed to £1,067 each for the MKH 40 (pro-user price ex-VAT).

At least it should give you a clue as to how the US price will work out.

[Ryan Sims]

$2800!

Weren't we looking for something significantly less expensive than the DPA 402X?

[Todd R]

$2800!

Weren't we looking for something significantly less expensive than the DPA 402X?

Probably worse than that -- I'm assuming John provided pricing for the MKH8040 mics, and you'd have to add the optional remote (active) cables to them to achieve what we're talking about.  Based on Neumann pricing, I'd guess that would mean an additional $5-600 for the pair. 

Still, I'm curious to hear more about these mics as they become available.

[BobW]

That is correct but the Schoeps CCM 2 will allow 130 dB at 0.5% THD. DPA 4022 are on par with the Church modified Panasonic capsules (he states 114 dB at 0.3% THD). I never record at these levels, only recording acoustic music and never near field pickup.

The DPA 402x mics are pre-polarized condenser capsules with a VERY conservative max SPL of 145db

Any comparison of the DPAs to the $2 Panasonic capsule probably is not very realistic.

Those DPA 402x series are some of the finest microphones made, IMHO
The DPA 406x series are electrets, but their sound is markedly better than any incarnation of the Panacapsules to my ears.

Harmonic distortions can be euphonic and are generally considered to be inaudible up to approximately 2 to 3 percent.
THD is certainly a factor to consider, but it can be far from the entire story.

Both the Schoeps and the DPAs are mics to be quite proud to own and are in a class by themselves.

[audBall]

The DPA 406x series are electrets, but their sound is markedly better than any incarnation of the Panacapsules to my ears.

I'm starting to think that's what he meant all along, not '4020'.  Does DPA mention that they are, in fact, electrets?  A quick scan saw 'condenser'.

[Roger Gustavsson]

The DPA 402x mics are pre-polarized condenser capsules with a VERY conservative max SPL of 145db

Any comparison of the DPAs to the $2 Panasonic capsule probably is not very realistic.

Those DPA 402x series are some of the finest microphones made, IMHO
The DPA 406x series are electrets, but their sound is markedly better than any incarnation of the Panacapsules to my ears.

Pre-polarized condenser = electret? Of course, we cannot compare mass produced low price ones with the DPA, AKG, Earthworks etc.