Topic: R4 run times

[Nick Graham]

Well, I got the dreaded "HDD Slow" Error Message tonight! I ran a disc format beforehand, so that seemingly didn't help.

One thing I noticed, at lower decibels things are fine, as soon as any drums kick in, the error appears. Listening back it skips like hell whenever that message appeared, but the quieter parts are okay.

FWIW I was running line-in @ 24/96.

Would "Disc Check" have made a difference? Is that what stopped others from getting this error? I thought formatting was what I wanted to do...

[Nick's Picks]

what were the conditions?  were you close to the PA or something?  was there heat...vibration ?

i have still not had this problem...even in heat and vibration..and I run 24/96 constantly.
I also do a format/check before each use.  I think the check disc feature de-frags...and its something you want to do for sure.

[kgreener]

Nick, when you and others say that you do a format/check before each use, are you saying that you're transferring all of your data to a pc first, then formatting everything to have a clean drive at the next show?  If so, doesn't this kind of defeat the purpose of having a 40gb hard drive in the R4 for storing data?  On my JB3 I've tons of shows that I leave on there, and only delete them when I'm low on space and know I have them archived properly.

Or maybe the R4 can do a selective format, and format only parts of the hard drive that don't have data on it? (though I doubt this is the case).

Please let me know when you have a chance...thanks.

[Nick Graham]

Nick, when you and others say that you do a format/check before each use, are you saying that you're transferring all of your data to a pc first, then formatting everything to have a clean drive at the next show?  If so, doesn't this kind of defeat the purpose of having a 40gb hard drive in the R4 for storing data?  On my JB3 I've tons of shows that I leave on there, and only delete them when I'm low on space and know I have them archived properly.

Or maybe the R4 can do a selective format, and format only parts of the hard drive that don't have data on it? (though I doubt this is the case).

Please let me know when you have a chance...thanks.

Disc Check/Format are both built in options within the R4. Disc Check is essentially a defrag, where as Format does exactly what you think it would do - erases everything on the drive.

I tend to agree for the most part, if making sure the HD is empty everytime I record is a must, that sort of defeats the purpose of having a 40GB HD. FWIW though, both Boa and Boogie have been able to successfully record @ 24/96 with half full HDs by doing the Disc Check prior to each show.

what were the conditions? were you close to the PA or something? was there heat...vibration ?

i have still not had this problem...even in heat and vibration..and I run 24/96 constantly.
I also do a format/check before each use. I think the check disc feature de-frags...and its something you want to do for sure.

I was fairly close to the PA, and it was as hot as any packed club show in the Tennessee summertime heat, but still - if that was the culprit, then this is likely gonna hapen everytime - so I'm sending the fucker back. I've got The Dragonflys Monday night, so I guess Round 2 will be then. Got my fingers crossed....

[boa]

Well, I got the dreaded "HDD Slow" Error Message tonight! I ran a disc format beforehand, so that seemingly didn't help.

One thing I noticed, at lower decibels things are fine, as soon as any drums kick in, the error appears. Listening back it skips like hell whenever that message appeared, but the quieter parts are okay.

FWIW I was running line-in @ 24/96.

Would "Disc Check" have made a difference? Is that what stopped others from getting this error? I thought formatting was what I wanted to do...

Nick, I rec'd the same error on my 2nd attempt using the R4, and have not seen it since. I believe the reason is performing a "Disc Check" (defrag)  prior to each recording, whether you have data on the drive or not. This process has worked for me.

[Nick Graham]

Well, I got the dreaded "HDD Slow" Error Message tonight! I ran a disc format beforehand, so that seemingly didn't help.

One thing I noticed, at lower decibels things are fine, as soon as any drums kick in, the error appears. Listening back it skips like hell whenever that message appeared, but the quieter parts are okay.

FWIW I was running line-in @ 24/96.

Would "Disc Check" have made a difference? Is that what stopped others from getting this error? I thought formatting was what I wanted to do...

Nick, I rec'd the same error on my 2nd attempt using the R4, and have not seen it since. I believe the reason is performing a "Disc Check" (defrag) prior to each recording, whether you have data on the drive or not. This process has worked for me.

Cool man, much appreciated.

I've set up an extremely easy external battery pack for the R4. Looks like it'll run somewhere in the 8 hour range. PM me and I'll shoot you the details/part numbers.

[kgreener]

Nick, I rec'd the same error on my 2nd attempt using the R4, and have not seen it since. I believe the reason is performing a "Disc Check" (defrag)  prior to each recording, whether you have data on the drive or not. This process has worked for me.

if a simple disc check/defrag is all it takes, then that's great.  but a reformat of the drive each time is definitely not!

thanks guys.

[Nick's Picks]

Nick, when you and others say that you do a format/check before each use, are you saying that you're transferring all of your data to a pc first, then formatting everything to have a clean drive at the next show?  If so, doesn't this kind of defeat the purpose of having a 40gb hard drive in the R4 for storing data?  On my JB3 I've tons of shows that I leave on there, and only delete them when I'm low on space and know I have them archived properly.

Or maybe the R4 can do a selective format, and format only parts of the hard drive that don't have data on it? (though I doubt this is the case).

Please let me know when you have a chance...thanks.

the 40gb drive is not for archiving data.  its for "blank tape", and it needs to be de-fragged before each use for best results.  it gives you 19 hours of 24/96.  not 40gb of SHN files or old masters.  thats not the intended purpose of the drive, imo.
so yes..I transfer music off of it when i'm finished recording.  and then i scrub it clean before each use.  I"ve kept some stuff on their once or twice when recording something new.  but i have no need to..so why take the risk.
I dont believe that formating is crucial.  but like i said..I dont consider it like a JB3.  Its not like i'm dragging it around as a walkman..as you can w/the Nomad.  I kept my recordings on that indefinitely as well.

your jb3 is a little more forgiving because recording 16bit doesn't come close to taxing the drive inside.  24bit is another story.

selective format...
nope.

[Nick Graham]

Well, tonight's gonna be my 2nd attempt with the R4. Cross your fingers, wish me luck, and be on the lookout for some 24/96 Herring goodness tomorrow.

[Nick's Picks]

+T
give it some!

[sleepypedro]

what were the conditions?  were you close to the PA or something?  was there heat...vibration ?

i have still not had this problem...even in heat and vibration..and I run 24/96 constantly.
I also do a format/check before each use.  I think the check disc feature de-frags...and its something you want to do for sure.

i got my r4 last week, just like nick graham did.  my first recording session was 100% successful.  i ran 2 channels, stereo x1, at 24/96 and had no issues.  after transferring to my host PC and confirming md5 files, i formatted the drive.

tonight i ran my second session during an opening act.  4 channels, stereo x2 at 24/96.  every time the music would get beyond a certain dB threshhold, i got the 'HDD SLOW' error.  this happened during my fiirst write to disk since the format.

inbetween opener and headliner, i did two things, both of which i figured would remedy the problem: i ran a disk check, i turned my resolution down to 24/48.  as soon as all 4 channels started to reach the same dB threshhold, i again started to see the 'HDD SLOW' problem.

according to the anecdotes in this thread, a disk check should have prevented the problem.  not so in my case!

the resulting recording is absolute garbage during the 'HDD SLOW' sequences.

[udovdh]

Is the R4 recording to WAV or in some compressed format?
If it si WAV then the amount of data is constant oevr time and increase of sound volume should have no effect.
If it is some compressed format then the amount of resulting data coudl vary with sound volume, but even then: current media speeds are enough to keep up with a few megs/s...

Either way: it's a bug?

[Nick's Picks]

that sucks!
these decks...they strange in that some are bulletproof, and others are not.

[nickgregory]

is it possible vibrations to the unit from the db level increase is causing the issue?

[sleepypedro]

it's writing uncompressed.  it either writes stereo x1, stereo x2, or mono x4 in either wav or bwf mode.  in my case last night, it was writing stereo x2 in wav mode.

and yeah, it most definitely is triggered by sequences of sustained loud volume.  i was told about this over the weekend, and i too found it hard to believe, but not after last night.

i don't think it's an issue of vibration, but i can't rule that out without further testing.  i was about 30 feet from stage, in the soundbooth of the ram's head in annapolis md.  i mention this because it's relevant that it's a dinner-and-a-show environment... some music is louder than others, but never is it LOUD like a big rock club.

grrrrrrrr.

any suggestions on how i can test this? 

is it simply an issue of needing a more robust hard disc inside?  has anyone done any replacements / upgrades?