Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: rastasean on October 01, 2010, 01:23:43 AM
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continuation of 3 threads on discussion of the sony m10.
Part 3: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136665.0
part 5: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145955.0
Has anyone returned their m10 due to resetting the clock each time you power it on?
EDIT:
poll added so hopefully we can track the issue better. please vote if it pertains to you.
edit again:
it seems there may be speculation with the end user not actually saving the time prior to exiting the clock menu in the m10. please re-try setting the time and saving.
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Can you use the USB socket on the side to real-time record into an external portable drive of some kind?
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Can you use the USB socket on the side to real-time record into an external portable drive of some kind?
No, but why would you want to considering the inexpensive high capacity MicroSD cards available now?
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whats the longest take you could manage on an M10 then, fmaderjr...?
I tend to do BIG recording trips away without a computer- what the largest card size (at a decent format) it could manage do you think...?
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hang on- I've got the specs of the D50 here; do you think they are comparible...?
It's quoting the maximum time using the internal memory as 6hrs 25m @ 44.1K/16 bit. Does that sound accurate?
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If it is anything like the r44 (im just guessing as my M10 is in transit to me now). You should get ~4 hours on internal memory (4 gig) but then throw in a 16gb microsd and you get another 15+ hours @ 24/48.. or if you are a 16/44 guy you can run all day on 16gig.
Neil
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Thanks Neil- that's great!
Does the M10 accomodate a 16Gb card with no problems?
JimP
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Thanks Neil- that's great!
Does the M10 accomodate a 16Gb card with no problems?
JimP
I've had no problems recording with a Lexar 16 GB card on my M10.
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Mine ships next week (adoramacamera) they are on a religious holiday this week but starts shipping Monday. I see they have them for 199 now after I paid 213. Oh well win some lose some haha.. Really excited to have it in hand though.
Neil
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If it is anything like the r44 (im just guessing as my M10 is in transit to me now). You should get ~4 hours on internal memory (4 gig) but then throw in a 16gb microsd and you get another 15+ hours @ 24/48.. or if you are a 16/44 guy you can run all day on 16gig.
Neil
That sounds right. It doesn't matter what recorder you have-the record time will be with same with the same kHz/bit rate settings and the same amount of memory.
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Mine ships next week (adoramacamera) they are on a religious holiday this week but starts shipping Monday. I see they have them for 199 now after I paid 213. Oh well win some lose some haha.. Really excited to have it in hand though.
$199 is back! YESS! Now if they can just hold that line until my next paycheck... SBD > Sony here I come!
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Mine ships next week (adoramacamera) they are on a religious holiday this week but starts shipping Monday. I see they have them for 199 now after I paid 213. Oh well win some lose some haha.. Really excited to have it in hand though.
$199 is back! YESS! Now if they can just hold that line until my next paycheck... SBD > Sony here I come!
thought you had one of these already tom..
neil
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freaking love this deck...
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(From Part 3)
since there is still discussion which rec level setting gives 0dB of amplification from line in to line out, I pulled out my old Radio RIM PG 100 (a battery powered 1khz sine generator with attenuator and AC millivoltmeter). Calibration was checked against a Hameg HM8012 4 1/2 digit True RMS DMM.
Here are my findings:
0dB from line in to line out (1Ohm source resistance, 100k load resistance, Limiter and low cut off): Rec level at 6.2 (estimated).
While I was at it, I checked some levels at that setting:
-12dB on the level meter: approximately 245mV
-6dB on the level meter: approximately 490mV
0dB (FS) on the level meter: approximately 940mV.
Very interesting; thanks, Rainer! Were these voltages measured at the line-in or the line-out? The reason I ask is that Sony says the line-in minimum input level is 500 mV, which is about what you measured at -6dB on the meter. Seems to me (an electronics illiterate) that a voltage equivalent to the minimum input level should produce a meter reading lower than -6dB at unity gain? Is it possible that the M10 drops the level between the input and output (i.e. a "pro", or at least pro-ish, level input and a "consumer" level output)?
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$199 is back! YESS! Now if they can just hold that line until my next paycheck... SBD > Sony here I come!
thought you had one of these already tom..
Oh, you're quite correct. I need ANOTHER one for SBD's!! >:D
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Thanks Neil- that's great!
Does the M10 accomodate a 16Gb card with no problems?
JimP
Yes-I'm using one. The manual says that's as high as it goes though and Sony doesn't do firmware updates.
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continuation of 3 threads on discussion of the sony m10.
Part 3: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136665.0
Has anyone returned their m10 due to resetting the clock each time you power it on?
You do know u can just push play a bunch of times and get through the clock thing, right? It's annoying but really why the need to set the clock each use?
Barrett
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I don't have the issue but you're right, the clock isn't necessary for the recorder to work.
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As you can see by my number of posts, I'm the ultimate newb here. After many years of half a$$ed recordings, I want to up the quality on my recordings. (presently use an inexpensive Olympus recorder and some no name mics) I just want to say I have spent many many hours pouring over many many threads on this site and I have decided on the M-10. It sounds like a great piece of equipment and thanks for the tip on $199 from Adorama. I just ordered mine!
I've read so much on this little gem, I'm sure I've read the answer or answers to my question but it has gotten lost in the jumble of frequency testing, SD card types, overseas shipping fees info etc. I apologize in advance for no doubt repeating this but here it goes...
I plan on using this for loud rock concerts (Social Distortion, Motorhead, Dropkick Murphys, etc) in mid sized to large club type venues. I plan on getting CA 14's (one piece of info that a lot of people agree on) but I'm not sure if I need a battery box / preamp to go along with these or if the internal power is sufficient or proper for what I plan on using my rig for.
Man, things have come a long way since I snuck my old cassette recorder into Ramones concerts!!! You have a great community going here and it's great to see so much info being shared! :)
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I plan on using this for loud rock concerts (Social Distortion, Motorhead, Dropkick Murphys, etc) in mid sized to large club type venues. I plan on getting CA 14's (one piece of info that a lot of people agree on) but I'm not sure if I need a battery box / preamp to go along with these or if the internal power is sufficient or proper for what I plan on using my rig for.
Man, things have come a long way since I snuck my old cassette recorder into Ramones concerts!!! You have a great community going here and it's great to see so much info being shared! :)
Rich62, welcome to the community, you will feel always at home here wherever your whereabouts are.
Yes, you need a battery box or a pream and then go line in into the M-10. If you intend to purchase the C-14's then get the preamp 9100 from Chris as well.
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I love the ST-9100, but if you really are going to record nothing but loud concerts you also have the option of just getting a battery box to power the mics. I doubt if you'd notice an audible difference in your recordings if you went that route. You'd save some money and you'd get hundreds of hours more life out of the 9 volt battery powering it than you would with the ST-9100.
You can't go wrong with the ST-9100 though and you should have one if you are going to record quiet stuff even occasionally.
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So nobody has pushed Sony on the clock setting problem?
There are a lot of times when I have needed to get the recorder powered up and recording NOW, and a problem like that would be a real PIA and result in lost audio.
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I have 2 m10s and after initially setting the clocks a few days later BOTH needed to be reset.Its been 3 months now and both have units have held the clock info.
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The clock is useful, if not downright essential, on the PCM-M10 because it names the files for the day you record them, and of course they are time-stamped like other Windows files. If you leave it unset all your files are going to have duplicate--[EDIT: actually, just similar dated, as someone pointed out below]--names, and if, like me, you sometimes are tardy about uploading them, it sure is nice to have the date to jog your memory.
If it's not working I would consider it defective and get it replaced. There's no reason to live with that defect. Mine has never had a problem.
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And meanwhile, on Rich62's battery box question...a battery box is all you'll ever need for loud music. Save the extra $$ for beer or other experiential enhancements.
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The clock is useful, if not downright essential, on the PCM-M10 because it names the files for the day you record them, and of course they are time-stamped like other Windows files
How does the recorder prevent file overwrites in the event of a duplicate date?
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The clock is useful, if not downright essential, on the PCM-M10 because it names the files for the day you record them, and of course they are time-stamped like other Windows files
How does the recorder prevent file overwrites in the event of a duplicate date?
Agree with Earmonger on all counts. Although, I may be lucky (for once here lately), haven't had any aforementioned issues as of yet... Maybe a bad lot on the internal rechargeables?
I'm sure this has been covered in previous threads, but I'm admittedly too lazy and inept to search soooo... what type of battery/chemistry keeps the vital statistics going on these things?
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Thanks Napo and fmaderjr for the advice!
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What's the genral consensus on the M10/D50?
Is the M10 good enough by itself, or so most people use it with offboard pre-amps? Is the D50 good enough by itself?
JimP
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So nobody has pushed Sony on the clock setting problem?
There are a lot of times when I have needed to get the recorder powered up and recording NOW, and a problem like that would be a real PIA and result in lost audio.
I sent Sony a mail about this, but I haven't heard back from them yet. I'd encourage others with the issue to do the same. The more reports they receive, the more likely they are to take action...I'll post their response when/if I get it...
In the meantime, my workaround for this is to just turn the recorder on and set the clock at home while I am getting my gear together and just leave it on until the show starts. With the incredible battery life, it's no problem even if the show starts hours later...
How does the recorder prevent file overwrites in the event of a duplicate date?
The filenames are in the format "yymmdd_number.wav". So if you already had a file called 101004_01.wav, a second file would be titled 101004_02.wav, so no overwriting. You can end up with two files with the same name, however, if you switch from internal memory to card (or vice versa)...
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What's the genral consensus on the M10/D50?
Is the M10 good enough by itself, or so most people use it with offboard pre-amps? Is the D50 good enough by itself?
That's the equivalent of asking how long is a piece of string. Having both units, I can say that their internal pre-amps are just fine in my opinion and do an excellent job with my CSB cardioid mics via a 9V battery box (M10/D50 plug-in power switched off, naturally). I was thinking of designing my own external preamp when I got the cardioids but after extensive testing came to the conclusion that the performance of the internal preamps are exceptional, even in extremely quiet passages of classical performances recorded at 96kHz/24 bit resolution.
In the end, it all boils down to what you're recording and what sounds good to you but for me, it's extremely versatile and clean without any need for anything beyond external mics and a battery box to suit.
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Thankyou Artstar, that's great info...
whilst recently trying to record striplight (tubes) startup sounds for a film project, I did a group test of all combinations of all the recording gear I own and came up with a Symetrix 302 pre-amp running into my Tascam DA-20 DAT deck to produce the lowest noise floor possible. This and the use of phantom powered mics, which a cursory measurement revealed a gain increase of 6dB alone, produced a result.
It's something I've never really thought about until trying to gather this footage recently but there was no way my standard rig had to the performance to get the result...
JimP
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Interesting application! In which case, I'd dare say that the D50/M10 probably won't have a sufficiently low noise floor for such a recording in which case, you'd want to go for an outboard preamp for sure.
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Oh- sorry- that is not illustrated as being indicative of the kind of thing I record every week- more something I was trying to do after replicating perhaps some of your own experiments to quantifyably establish performance...
what's your take on the Fostex FR2-LE?
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Keep in mind my purposes are somewhat more limited in that it's mostly live performances that I record with my unit. Generally, it's loud stuff as in metal gigs which allows me a little leeway in the S/N ratio but occasionally, I like to go to a classical performance or occasionally record a comedy act. The classical gigs obviously put the gear to the test in terms of the dynamic range. What I'd like to do is get my hands on the anechoic lab that my friend's university has and just perform some standalone recordings with the internal and external mics I have to see just how low the noise floor really is. From practical experience, the unit holds its own with the onboard preamps and sounds fantastic but so far, I've been pretty fortunate with my estimated recording level setting before the performance begins.
I'd like to hopefully account for perhaps having been a little too conservative on the recording levels and see if the noise floor would exceed a quiet passage in such a scenario but I don't want to find out the hard way either! Given on paper the S/N ratio is 87dB or greater as opposed to the PCM-D50's 93dB or greater (line levels, +4dBu reference), I can't imagine it would be that great a result if something like that did happen. In which case, push may come to shove and I would have to consider using the PCM-D50 in that situation instead if one approximates about a 10dB raise in the noise floor for mic inputs. Again, it's an extreme circumstance which I may never have to face but it's nice to know that I do have at least one recorder that could hold its own in that situation.
Perhaps one day some physicist will find the means to develop electronic components which have a guaranteed S/N ratio of 130dB to match human hearing along with the mics to suit! Until then, we electrical engineers will have to make do with whatever we can get from chopper stabilised amplifiers as far as ultimate performance goes.
The Fostex you mention is a nice unit and I have had a chance to play with one for a bit. On paper, it looks the goods and seems to be very much similar to the PCM-D50 in terms of its specs. Having listened to WAV's from both units, the difference is indiscernible. In which case, I'd rather go with the PCM-D50 because the unit isn't as bulky and runs for much longer on 4xAA's than the Fostex. The one thing that would sway me to the Fostex would be the balanced inputs as far as an all-in-one unit solution goes. Otherwise, I'd just get an outboard preamp for the PCM-D50 instead because either way, I'm no longer really portable in terms of stealthiness anyway. :)
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Yes- that's how I think about it as well in that the relevance of the S/N really depends on the type of footage you are gathering. However when I think back to the types of scenario I like to try and gather, they are more often than not, pretty quiet already!
It's something I've never really considered until that striplight thing recently- I was going to have to gate the footage in postproduction to get a useable result. I've never really thought "technically" about gear performance relative to a desired result. I've always been driven more emotively by trying to get what I want.
That's the figures I've got also for the M10 & D50 and at that point in the gain structure I think 6dB IS ALOT although that is at 24bit. I'm not sure given the amount of footage I tend to gather that I'd be using 24bit all the time. With my own current gear I think I was shaving 1.5/2.0 dB to establish a winning combination. However I see the FR2-LE has a quoted 95dB!!- I wouldn't mind the size of the FR2 actually; I quite like the reassuring solidity of serious location recorders. (unless they are made by Marantz)
It just seems a bit more professional- I could mabey work something out on the power side to keep it going.
Do you know what the largest flash-card it can handle is? and whether CF is generically regarded as a more stable format than Micro SD/Memory Stick?
JimP
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Keep in mind that's 95dB for the line in which is not far off the PCM-D50 sitting at 93dB. Again, the major benefit is the balanced connectivity that's built-in as opposed to requiring outboard preamps to do the same with the PCM-D50.
In terms of memory cards, largest I've seen so far is 64GB from Sandisk, Kingston and possibly Lexar. Not cheap but I do have a Sandisk one myself (Extreme Pro) for my dSLR camera as I tend to shoot in RAW and take a lot of shots before I get back to my laptop to pick out the keepers from the bunch.
For audio, unless you're doing multitrack work with it or don't have access to a laptop for days on end, I don't see the point in getting something so large. I use a Sandisk 16GB microSD in my PCM-M10 and the PCM-D50 got the Sandisk 8GB MS Pro Duo HG. Both serve me very well and far exceed my actual storage requirements for the purpose as I'm never without a computer whether it's out on the road or back home. I'm not sure what the maximum size is that the Fostex supports but I can't imagine 16GB being a problem for it considering I recall someone with the FR2 (not FR2-LE) using an 8GB card with it back in the day. That said, it would be wise to check with Fostex themselves for the latest list on tested and supported media for the recorder.
Is one format more reliable than the other? Not in my opinion. CF cards have the benefit of being easy to find in a stack of stuff given their size, compared to looking for a microSD-needle in a haystack. CF cards are indeed more robust as their contacts are deeply recessed into their housing. But with a little care (as has been the argument regarding audio connectors in this thread), there's no reason why any of the memory card formats should have any problem in the long term. CF cards also handle much faster transfer speeds which can only really be seen as advantageous by photo/video applications given the copious amounts of data being transferred with each shot/frame. Audio is a little more forgiving in that sense and even recording 192kHz/24bit samples on a microSD card would be just fine as the bitrate is about 8.8Mb/sec (about 1.1MB/sec) which fits within the lowest specification (level 2 - 2MB/sec write speeds). A Canon 5D Mk II dSLR camera can achieve write speeds of approximately 32MB/sec with a high end CF card.
My belief is the primary reason why professional market recorders use CF over other formats is purely for the fact that it is established as a professional media standard. With that standard in place, you have simplified the interoperability amongst other devices. As an example, suppose I'm shooting video with my dSLR (as a few models can nowadays) and I desperately need to record something on my audio recorder but being unprofessional as I am, I forgot to pack in a card for it. I could grab the CF card out of my camera and whack it straight into the recorder thereby saving my butt. Beyond that, I can't see any other benefits in having a CF-based audio recorder over anything else. Of course, if anyone else has any idea as to why this is so, I'm all ears and/or stand to be corrected.
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As far as audio recorders are concerned, I don't see any difference in CF and SD or microsd. For photography, perhaps CF cards are able to write much faster for those cameras like the nikon d3s (at only $5200 for the body) which have a very large buffer. as for audio, CF is probably the common style card simply because it was around first. It was the first one to the dinner table so it gets to be called professional.
there are three types of CF cards at 64GB to choose from on b&h and there are also the same number for SD but they cost a bundle.
averaged out, those six CF and SD Cards came to $341 so I would look into get a combination of memory cards adding up to that much. For example, on SD, you could get three of the best rated 16 gig cards for $348 yielding nearly 48 gigs of recording data. These specific cards have a rebate right now so you would get money mailed back to you.
My bottom line would be not to concern yourself with the largest available card and buy a number of multiple smaller cards.
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Yes- your right-
I'm not really imagining myself going for 64Gb CF cards and doing a weeks worth of recording on them and thinking it would transfer no problem; I'm just interested in the upper limits of file-size performance as a means to establishing a safe ceiling lower down. Even without ANY computer knowledge I can see the sense in many smaller capacity pieces of media. Having said that- I would be travelling without a computer.
That's interesting about the cost actually although it wouldn't sway me- I've been sticking my neck out for years to get the recording gear I want in the face of adversity!- My first full-size MD recorder was nearly £1000 back in '93!!!
I wonder which of the two formats is more widely available now in terms of being at the end of the road whilst travelling and trying to source more media? I spent a hilarious afternoon in Jaipur once trying to source MDs.
I think there's a 1U rackmount piece of Tascam gear that reads CF cards to transfer them to disc... Hmmm...
Thanks
JimP
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I think you're just as likely to find a CF card as you are a SD card, or said another way--if you can't find a CF card, don't waste too much time on a SD card. ;)
Seriously, if you're afraid of running out of media, buy many various sizes ahead of time online.
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B&H has the M10 for $199 shipped again. Just ordered one with a 16 gb card :)
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B&H has the M10 for $199 shipped again. Just ordered one with a 16 gb card :)
Awesome deal!
thanx for the tip & update
:)
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New to the forum!
Whew! 8 hours later, I've just completed reading all 4 parts to this thread non stop. Now I really want a Sony recorder, and I know I want the M10 or d50. But, I'm still stuck on which way to go.
Some background: I won't be doing concerts or clubs, so stealthness won't be an issue! I do like the idea of a hand-held unit though, and both fit that description. My use will include personal recording of my electric, and acoustic guitar, and I'm digging this ambient recording thing such as recording Florida thunder storms.
If you didn't have the need to conceal the unit, would most here go ahead with a D-50 purchase instead? I'm still unclear on any SQ differences between the two? I really like that $199 price, but the D50 keeps calling!
The things that have me looking hard @ the D 50:
1. The better all metal sturdy construction. I really appreciate that big time. Perhaps this isn't so inportant if it's going to be obsolete in a few years anyway?????
2. The metal Line and mike jacks. How big a concern is the plastic connectors on the M10?
3. Possible better internals / SQ
What I don't like:
1.The price, but I can deal with that
2. The Sony Mem stick
3.The fact that it's been out for a while. I would hate to buy it just as a new model was released!!!!!!
Guy's I know most here record bands, but there is barely any info on other types of field recordings. I'll have to ask here! So for non concert taping, and mainly ambient recording, whats your pick? D- 50 pricing is my limit, buy Mics, and accessories will come later.
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I own both as I am slutty. However, I mainly concert record with external mics and have very little experience with the internals on each unit. The battery life on the M10 is amazing! The D50 takes 4 AA's and doesn't have the sustain like the M10 does on 2.
I prefer the A/D on the D50 over the M10, but don't think it's worth the extra dollars.
I can't see the M10 being better than the D50 at half the price, but Sony may have outdone themselves.
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So for non concert taping, and mainly ambient recording, whats your pick? D- 50 pricing is my limit, buy Mics, and accessories will come later.
I heard you about what you're willing to pay, just consider that if you're truly serious about recording, the PCM-D1 is worth every penny and you don't need any extras with it, except maybe a windsock. That said, you will be making an excellent choice with the M10.
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d-50 = ;D
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the D50 keeps calling!
The D50 also has both digital in and out, if you think you might need that [i.e., for an external preamp with dig out].
The D1 only has dig out, and the M10 has neither.
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Dogmusic raises very good points. Given that I have both the PCM-D50 and the PCM-M10, I can truly say that the differences are barely audible. The D50 does run two ADC's in which one runs 20dB lower than the other so that when the limiter is in use, it will perform an intelligent crossfade in the event the input is exceeded. Very clever stuff. It is indeed built sturdier so if you're accident prone or use it in potentially harsh areas, the PCM-D50 will definitely hold up to a little more abuse. The mics of both units are fantastic for internals though the PCM-D50 are just that little bit better. More importantly, you can adjust your X-Y angles with them as well whereas they're in a fixed position on the PCM-M10.
On the other hand, as was stated before, you'll get a much longer run time off your batteries in the PCM-M10 and on half the quantity. That is a major bonus when you're out in the field. Other than that, I haven't bothered to look but back in 2008, there was nothing bigger than my 8GB Sandisk MS ProHG Duo card for my PCM-D50 which bought me plenty of recording time at 48kHz/24bit. If you need more recording time than that or want to record long sessions at the highest resolutions (96/24), then you may want to consider the PCM-M10 for the fact that you can use a microSD card and it can also cross-record from the external storage to the internal 4GB storage or vice versa. Could save your butt depending on your application.
Those would be the features I would be basing my decision on. Everything else is much of a muchness. If anything, I use my PCM-M10 more so because of the reasons above and its size but the PCM-D50 will always be well looked after as my backup unit.
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Well I made a move! I took advantage of the $199 sale, and free shipping, but upgraded to 2 day Air for a meager $6 extra !
In the end I decided it was important to learn more before making a "expensive" decision. With the the M10. I'm not risking much as I can still upgrade to something better later on, and use this as a " njce portable" backup. Seems like it would make a killer "IPOD" too. In the mean time, it appears I now have a great unit to dig in and learn a little more with.
I can't wait! Now I can read about other stuff like Mic's, and Preamps!
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with my 680 in the shop now for over a month
I'm starting to get acclimated to my M10 as a SBD source
and even with my Littlebox when ONLY running a single pair of mics
when I get the 680 back, it may be hitting the YS and I'm getting another M10 >:D
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the M-10 is now back up to $229 at B&H :(
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with my 680 in the shop now for over a month
I'm starting to get acclimated to my M10 as a SBD source
and even with my Littlebox when ONLY running a single pair of mics
when I get the 680 back, it may be hitting the YS and I'm getting another M10 >:D
Whats the deal with the Doc, got a flu? probably been congregating too much with other dr 680s.
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the M-10 is now back up to $229 at B&H :(
I think that is still a little less than what I paid. ::)
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$213 on Amazon!
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Well I did find one little issue. Dam that screen scratches easy! :( I only handled it a little this weekend, but wiped the screen clean every time it got a little smudged. Well I happen to put on some reading glasses to see the screen a little better, and that's when I saw the 150 light little scratches I have managed to add to it. I was using a clean micro fiber too! Is the D50 lcd screen plastic too or glass? If plastic, I would never pay that much for it. At least the M10 was cheap. They're very light scratches, but this kinda bums me out.
BTW I know it's about the sound, but still.....
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with my 680 in the shop now for over a month
I'm starting to get acclimated to my M10 as a SBD source
and even with my Littlebox when ONLY running a single pair of mics
when I get the 680 back, it may be hitting the YS and I'm getting another M10 >:D
Whats the deal with the Doc, got a flu? probably been congregating too much with other dr 680s.
still no word on it... most likely hitting the YS when I get it back
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still no word on it... most likely hitting the YS when I get it back
but I mean WHAT HAPPENED? Did it quit turning on? did it stop recording? pre-amps failed to work, etc.
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still no word on it... most likely hitting the YS when I get it back
but I mean WHAT HAPPENED? Did it quit turning on? did it stop recording? pre-amps failed to work, etc.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=137231.msg1803734#msg1803734
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whoa, the doctor needs a heart transplant!
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Well I did find one little issue. Dam that screen scratches easy! :( I only handled it a little this weekend, but wiped the screen clean every time it got a little smudged. Well I happen to put on some reading glasses to see the screen a little better, and that's when I saw the 150 light little scratches I have managed to add to it. I was using a clean micro fiber too! Is the D50 lcd screen plastic too or glass? If plastic, I would never pay that much for it. At least the M10 was cheap. They're very light scratches, but this kinda bums me out.
BTW I know it's about the sound, but still.....
The minute I took mine out of the box. I took a left-over screen protector from my droidx purchase from verizon (They give you two extras when you buy a three pack). Cut it to the exact size of the screen and laid it on there. hopefully, it will keep it minty fresh. Although mine also has the clock issue. Turn it off and on its asking to set the clock.. bummer
Neil
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Ran my new M10 for the first time last night at Dylan. 4V > EAA > M10 @ 24/96. The few minutes I listened to at home after the show sounded really nice.
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Got my free M10 case yesterday in the mail. I loves me some free stuff.
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Has nobody pushed Sony on the clock issue?
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Got my free M10 case yesterday in the mail. I loves me some free stuff.
got mine tuesday... not a bad case
Has nobody pushed Sony on the clock issue?
I still don't have a problem with mine
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Has nobody pushed Sony on the clock issue?
go for it....
mine has no issues, but mine was also a refurbished unit so maybe the clock issue is what was refurborated.
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Has nobody pushed Sony on the clock issue?
go figure
i had the clock issue for about 5 months and now have not had an issue for 2
i wonder if there is a catch to setting and saving it that might be over looked and now i got it right
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I think you must push Stop after setting the clock for it to stick.
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Also if the internal battery was not holding charge and losing the clock setting why wouldnt all your other settings be lost as well?
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Also if the internal battery was not holding charge and losing the clock setting why wouldnt all your other settings be lost as well?
my other setting where never lost - just the clock
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Each time I change the microSD the deck switches to the internal flash.
I have to manually switch back to the card.
What am I doing wrong?
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I don't think the deck switching to internal when removing the sd card is a filure.Because if you removed the sd card and didn't replace it and the deck retained the sd card setting you wouldn't be able to record anything.
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I don't think the deck switching to internal when removing the sd card is a filure.Because if you removed the sd card and didn't replace it and the deck retained the sd card setting you wouldn't be able to record anything.
True that
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I don't think the deck switching to internal when removing the sd card is a filure.Because if you removed the sd card and didn't replace it and the deck retained the sd card setting you wouldn't be able to record anything.
True that
We're not talking failure. Just trying to figure it out.
- Deck is on, card is in, deck is switched to using card flash, working fine
- Deck is turned off
- Card is removed from deck
- New formatted card is inserted
- Deck is turned on
- Deck has switched to internal flash
That is the behaviour I see.
So:
Am I doing something wrong?
If so: what?
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hmm- that's interesting..
it would be interesting to see if the machine was powered down and the batteries removed (card not ejected) and then replaced whether it would also revert to internal memory as a precaution.
I think it just knows (even when it is apparently "off") that the card has been ejected and has this feature built in as a failsafe...
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Didn't test the batteries thing, yet.
But if the deck boots up it could check for a card. Card is there: use it.
Sounds safer to me.
Is this settable/tweakable?
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Hi there,
I've seen self-noise figures for the PCM-M10 of EIN = -122dB (A weighted), for example at the following:
http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2009/11/choosing-audio-recorder-for-ultimate.html
I'm trying to measure this noise floor myself. Now forgive me if this is a silly question, but whenever I record silence with the mic (e.g. with an external battery mic with the power off, or a stereo cable with nothing connected to the other end) I get a wav file (recording at 24/96) that has a noise level of -93dBFS at best when I process in Audacity using the stats.ny plug in (available here (http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=38134)). This best-case scenario occurs when I record at level 0 on mic or line input.
Can anyone tell me whether I could expect better than this? Is this really the EIN of the device at zero gain?
I know that as EIN is the noise floor of the recording + the analog gain of the recording.
So as the gain value increases, the noise floor won't increase as much so the EIN would be better at higher gain values. I was just expecting a better EIN than I'm seeing at lower gain values (e.g zero gain).
Specifically, I was hoping to find that the noise floor of any recorded file, whatever the gain value, to be better than the -93dBFS I'm measuring. Otherwise there would presumably be no point in recording anything at 24-bit resolution as this noise level is already higher than the quantisation noise of 16-bit recording (-96dBFS)
Have I missed something?
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Anyone send there M10 back to get the clock issue fixed? Thinking about picking one up, but the clock issue would bother me.
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Anyone sent there M10 back to get the clock issue fixed? Thinking about picking one up, but the clock issue would bother me.
There are a lot of times when I need to make a recording Right Now. Having to fumble with clock setting BS would be a deal breaker and would result in lost audio.
Have you verified it isn't something as simple as the need to press 'stop' or similar, as someone mentioned above?
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Not all PCM-M10 have a clock problem. Mine doesn't. Get one, try it, return it if need be.
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Had mine for 2 weeks and no clock issue here,
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Anyone send there M10 back to get the clock issue fixed? Thinking about picking one up, but the clock issue would bother me.
after having the clock issue for 4 months and not since the past 2
i think people are exiting out without actually saving the time
because as pointed out earlier if the internal battery isn't saving the time, then why is it saving all the other settings??
if it was something actually related tot eh battery not saving the time then it shouldn't save the other settings either
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I added a poll to the top of this topic. please vote if your unit has had any issues with the clock resetting every time you power it on.
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I added a poll to the top of this topic. please vote if your unit has had any issues with the clock resetting every time you power it on.
that's cool, but the poll really should be perhaps
what percentage of units even have this issue?
maybe this should be another sticky or even thread
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I added a poll to the top of this topic. please vote if your unit has had any issues with the clock resetting every time you power it on.
that's cool, but the poll really should be perhaps
what percentage of units even have this issue?
maybe this should be another sticky or even thread
yeah, it would have to be another poll: who has had the issue / who has not had the issue.
the reason I phrased it for those with the issue is because many, many people continue to ask about it and hopefully we can come to a conclusion that it is a real problem, or if it is an issue with the end user setting the time.
From my memory, I think about a dozen people (maybe less) posted an issue with the clock. Will was one of those people but now he believes it may have been an issue with not saving the clock settings prior to exiting the menu.
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go figure
i just checked my clock and it need to reset
now i am lost on my thinking
i went 4 months with a reset issue everytime i turned it on
then 2 months of it working fine
last week i checked it and it was saved, 2 mins ago it needs to be set
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My M10 still records. I'm indifferent on the clock and don't see it as that vital.
-
I got my M10 case from the Sony Rebate. It is a nice case, better than the camera case that I was using.
Glenn
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No clock issue here. I've had mine for 3 months now.
So far, everything works fantastic.
I was wondering how folks are doing with the 32G cards so far? I've got a few 16G cards and I kinda like the idea of not having more than one days worth of recording on one (just in case I loose it), but it would be cool to have way more space than I really need when the cost of the 32G cards goes down (as long as the upload time to my computer is about the same).
BTW I'm lovin' the Eneloop AA batteries for the M10 and all kinds of other stuff in my house.
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No clock issue here. I've had mine for 3 months now.
So far, everything works fantastic.
I was wondering how folks are doing with the 32G cards so far? I've got a few 16G cards and I kinda like the idea of not having more than one days worth of recording on one (just in case I loose it), but it would be cool to have way more space than I really need when the cost of the 32G cards goes down (as long as the upload time to my computer is about the same).
BTW I'm lovin' the Eneloop AA batteries for the M10 and all kinds of other stuff in my house.
i THOUGHT i read 16 was the highest you could use
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Just to weigh in.
I bought 3 PCM M10 units for work in the last 30 days. I am a heavy PCM D50 user, but the M10 was fine for work needs.
I bought 1 at Sweetwater and 2 at B&H.
ALL 3 have the clock issue. None will hold the time for longer than a day.
No Tech support seems to be able to figure it out and it looks like all 3 have to go back....
Wish this was an easy fix.
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vote in the poll.
are you certain you're saving the time upon exiting the menu?
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I bought a new M10 two month ago in France, no problem with the clock.
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I bought my PCM-M10 from Musician's Friend back in December 2009 and it hasn't skipped a beat. In fact, I'm still running on the first pair of lithium AA's. At any rate, I've put it to the test by removing the batteries for a week and after reinstalling the batteries, the clock was still intact.
The poll is hardly a fair one and to better determine how massive this issue may be, it should also have the option of "No, my unit is fine from day one."
At any rate, for those of you experiencing this problem, good luck with resolving it. Hopefully it's still too minor an issue to overshadow the real benefits of this recorder. Perhaps I should look for a screen protector for it as well even though it's still in pristine nick.
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This is going to sound odd (and excuse my ignorance btw) but would there be any way to protect the M10's internal mics from high SPL's?
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i THOUGHT i read 16 was the highest you could use
[/quote]
Check this thread and particularly the YouTube clip from the Sony guy,
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139888.0
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i THOUGHT i read 16 was the highest you could use
Check this thread and particularly the YouTube clip from the Sony guy,
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139888.0
[/quote]ahh nice
that might have been where i read about 16gb to begin with
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are you certain you're saving the time upon exiting the menu?
Not certain no.
I am not given an option to save it.
Once the date is entered (pushing the play button to move from Year>Month>Day>Hour>Minute>)
and pushing play after the last input, it goes directly to the record screen as expected.
There was no SAVE option.
Does yours ask you if you want to SAVE?
That might be part of the problem here....
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hmm- that's interesting..
it would be interesting to see if the machine was powered down and the batteries removed (card not ejected) and then replaced whether it would also revert to internal memory as a precaution.
I think it just knows (even when it is apparently "off") that the card has been ejected and has this feature built in as a failsafe...
In addition to this...what happens if there is a power failure during recording ? Do you lose everything ? Or does anything gets saved once it is recorded ?
I am asking because I am switching from HI MD to something else. I have had 3 power failures on 3 different recorders. And everytime there is a failure I have lost the entire recording. The last time it happened ten minutes before a concert was over and I lost a 2 hour show. So I am fed up with Minidisc now.
Also does the MZ RH1 remote works on this recorder aswell ?
Thanks for the info :)
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No, the remote socket is different.
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To save the time after entering the date you must push STOP to save.
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To save the time after entering the date you must push STOP to save.
I just attempted it a few more times, and hitting stop is not an option here.
After entering the date and time you must hit the PLAY button to advance.
It goes right to the record window, apparently without saving.
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If a handful of people have reported the issue here I doubt it is user error.
To save the time after entering the date you must push STOP to save.
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To save the time after entering the date you must push STOP to save.
Misinfomation. The 'stop' button CANCELS the setting. The play button saves the setting.
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what I've seen on mine is if there is a file on either the internal memory card or the card slot memory card the time will be displayed
if both of the cards are empty, the time will not display until a recording is started
YMMV :)
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Hopefully this is the right place to ask this:
I've avoided the M10 because of the annoying tiny memory card I'd have to buy which jacks the price up almost another $100.
What are the best bets for a card for one of these and how much should I expect to pay?
Thanks for any help,
j
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My 8 GB card give me 8 hours of recording at 24/48 and cost me about $20.
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http://tinyurl.com/2ema3s6
16 gig card for ~$25
Shop around because they are not expensive at all.
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I'm not sure why you'd need a card at all.
The internal memory records for 6 hours in WAV or 69 hours in MP3....
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I'm not sure why you'd need a card at all.
The internal memory records for 6 hours in WAV or 69 hours in MP3....
Perhaps he needs longer recording times at the higher resolutions? Perhaps he needs more storage space because he's not close to a computer that he can offload his recordings onto when out in the field or on long trips?
The real question here isn't why he'd need more memory but rather where did he find it would cost him another $100? I recall only paying about $30 or so for a 16GB Sandisk Mobile Ultra2 microSD card last December.
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The real question here isn't why he'd need more memory but rather where did he find it would cost him another $100? I recall only paying about $30 or so for a 16GB Sandisk Mobile Ultra2 microSD card last December.
I'm in NYC right now. "Home of the Bargains"
;-)
While B&H & Dale pro Audio are here, I didn't find any "deals" that might have tempted me into an M10
So far, it looks like the only way to get one for anything that resembles the prices in these threads is through the mail. Today, door-to-door, it is about (let's just go look...) uhm...
$206.91 shipped from J&R. (3-5 business days.)
$230.90 with the 16GB memory card.
Not too shabby. Lets say you order on a monday and it shows up on a friday, that's about all you could ask for in the $240 price range.
Pretty much beats everything else on the market.
Unfortunately it is saturday and my last 2 recordings in town will be Sunday & Monday.
Thanks for the help, you guys, hope the Amazon research helps someone out later...
What are you guys successfully running as far as shirt-pocket-sized preamps through this thing?
My only complaint about the M10... and the thing that always has me shopping for a PMD620... is that you can't modify it, you just need another piece of gear.
I really (stupidly of me) miss my old Oade Mod SBM1 > M1 rig, even though it meant too many cables and using the RCA jacks. I guess that's just me missing the old days, but now that we have the successor to the M1, what kind of (tiny) preamp color would you recommend?
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$206.91 shipped from J&R. (3-5 business days.)
$230.90 with the 16GB memory card.
[/quote]
http://www.jr.com/product/productListing.jsp?Ntt=m10&N=4294585549
where do you see m10 plus 16 gig card for $230? or do you mean the $200 from J&R and $30 from amazon.
is J&R a pretty reliable and dependable place or kinda shady?
-
i have got stuff from jr before through bing cashback
all was good
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$206.91 shipped from J&R. (3-5 business days.)
http://www.jr.com/product/productListing.jsp?Ntt=m10&N=4294585549
Use coupon code: GEICO10 for an extra $10 off.
Subtotal: $189.88
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What are you guys successfully running as far as shirt-pocket-sized preamps through this thing?
My only complaint about the M10... and the thing that always has me shopping for a PMD620... is that you can't modify it, you just need another piece of gear.
I really (stupidly of me) miss my old Oade Mod SBM1 > M1 rig, even though it meant too many cables and using the RCA jacks. I guess that's just me missing the old days, but now that we have the successor to the M1, what kind of (tiny) preamp color would you recommend?
Depends on what you're going to be using for I suppose. So far, I haven't needed to use any external preamp with my CSB cardioids as I've found the noise floor to be more than sufficiently low for everything from classical to rock gigs. When that time comes though, I'll be sure to design and build my own broadcast-grade preamp for a hell of a lot less than what's out there at the moment.
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$206.91 shipped from J&R. (3-5 business days.)
http://www.jr.com/product/productListing.jsp?Ntt=m10&N=4294585549
Use coupon code: GEICO10 for an extra $10 off.
Subtotal: $189.88
sweet deal!
;D
except the above link comes in at $229.00
and it appears to be out of stock ...
-
$206.91 shipped from J&R. (3-5 business days.)
http://www.jr.com/product/productListing.jsp?Ntt=m10&N=4294585549
Use coupon code: GEICO10 for an extra $10 off.
Subtotal: $189.88
sweet deal!
;D
except the above link comes in at $229.00
and it appears to be out of stock ...
199 plus coupon 189
http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_PCMM10B/
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What are you guys successfully running as far as shirt-pocket-sized preamps through this thing?
CA-9100
-
What are you guys successfully running as far as shirt-pocket-sized preamps through this thing?
CA-9100
littlebox
-
$206.91 shipped from J&R. (3-5 business days.)
http://www.jr.com/product/productListing.jsp?Ntt=m10&N=4294585549
Use coupon code: GEICO10 for an extra $10 off.
Subtotal: $189.88
sweet deal!
;D
except the above link comes in at $229.00
and it appears to be out of stock ...
199 plus coupon 189
http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_PCMM10B/
ahhhh that's super sweet - Awsome deal!
thanx
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Mine ships next week (adoramacamera) they are on a religious holiday this week but starts shipping Monday. I see they have them for 199 now after I paid 213. Oh well win some lose some haha.. Really excited to have it in hand though.
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try emailing asking if you can have your price amended in lieu of the cheaper price.
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Just got off the phone with SONY about the PCM M10 clock issue and here is what they advised.
First off, they have no record of ANY complaints on this matter. No service memos and no returns have been performed because of this clock issue. I told them I was in the interesting position of having 3 of them that do not work. They said it has an internal battery [rechargeable lithium] (BT301) that may be discharged from shelf life. I am to plug in the unit with the supplied AC power supply and let that internal battery charge for a night....and then see if the clock issue is resolved. I have started the 'charging' now and will see what happens to all 3 units.
If this doesn't work, they want me to send it in to the New Jersey facility so they can experience the new issue first hand.
We'll see.
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Just got off the phone with SONY about the PCM M10 clock issue and here is what they advised.
What? You actually called them? You do realize your time-consuming call may delay the M11? :P
Hopefully we'll finally get to the bottom of that issue.
Anyone see any pics of the m10's guts? Wonder what it takes to replace that battery, and those mics.
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Just got off the phone with SONY about the PCM M10 clock issue and here is what they advised.
First off, they have no record of ANY complaints on this matter. No service memos and no returns have been performed because of this clock issue. I told them I was in the interesting position of having 3 of them that do not work. They said it has an internal battery [rechargeable lithium] (BT301) that may be discharged from shelf life. I am to plug in the unit with the supplied AC power supply and let that internal battery charge for a night....and then see if the clock issue is resolved. I have started the 'charging' now and will see what happens to all 3 units.
If this doesn't work, they want me to send it in to the New Jersey facility so they can experience the new issue first hand.
We'll see.
Oh well....that didn't work either.
Plugged into the wall all night and day with the correct time entered before power down, and......upon turning it on it cheerfully says SET CLOCK
I will contact them again, but they will be wanting me to send it in now.
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I don't have the clock reset problem...but I am starting to think that the battery power remaining indicator is faulty since I have been using the same duracel batteries that I first put in my M10 and its still on full power a few months later and after using it just about twice a week to record my band rehearsals. ;D
M10 is WIN!
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First off, they have no record of ANY complaints on this matter. No service memos and no returns have been performed because of this clock issue. I told them I was in the interesting position of having 3 of them that do not work. They said it has an internal battery [rechargeable lithium] (BT301) that may be discharged from shelf life. I am to plug in the unit with the supplied AC power supply and let that internal battery charge for a night....and then see if the clock issue is resolved. I have started the 'charging' now and will see what happens to all 3 units.
Well, they didn't check their records too carefully. I mailed their service system some time ago (not sure of the exact date) with the following:
Every time I turn on my PCM-M10, I am required to reset the clock. This occurs even if charged batteries are kept in the unit. I know others who are experiencing the same issue. How can I stop this from happening? Is this a defective unit? Can a firmware update be issued to address this problem?
They responded on October 22nd:
Thank you for contacting Sony Support.
I'm sorry that the clock of the Linear PCM Recorder resets when it is turned ON. Based on the information you've provided, it appears that the unit require service. You can find the repair information and initiate a service at:
http://eservice.sony.com
Thank you for your time.
The Sony Email Response Team
C6ME
Ron
As I am traveling, and needed the M10, I have yet to respond (or send it back). Not sure what I will do about it, actually. Not that big of a hassle (although irritating)...
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Please respond to them. The more they know the problem exists, the more they will address it.
First off, they have no record of ANY complaints on this matter. No service memos and no returns have been performed because of this clock issue. I told them I was in the interesting position of having 3 of them that do not work. They said it has an internal battery [rechargeable lithium] (BT301) that may be discharged from shelf life. I am to plug in the unit with the supplied AC power supply and let that internal battery charge for a night....and then see if the clock issue is resolved. I have started the 'charging' now and will see what happens to all 3 units.
Well, they didn't check their records too carefully. I mailed their service system some time ago (not sure of the exact date) with the following:
Every time I turn on my PCM-M10, I am required to reset the clock. This occurs even if charged batteries are kept in the unit. I know others who are experiencing the same issue. How can I stop this from happening? Is this a defective unit? Can a firmware update be issued to address this problem?
They responded on October 22nd:
Thank you for contacting Sony Support.
I'm sorry that the clock of the Linear PCM Recorder resets when it is turned ON. Based on the information you've provided, it appears that the unit require service. You can find the repair information and initiate a service at:
http://eservice.sony.com
Thank you for your time.
The Sony Email Response Team
C6ME
Ron
As I am traveling, and needed the M10, I have yet to respond (or send it back). Not sure what I will do about it, actually. Not that big of a hassle (although irritating)...
-
Would someone mind to answer my earlier question :
In addition to this...what happens if there is a power failure during recording ? Do you lose everything ? Or does anything gets saved once it is recorded ?
I am asking because I am switching from HI MD to something else. I have had 3 power failures on 3 different recorders. And everytime there is a failure I have lost the entire recording. The last time it happened ten minutes before a concert was over and I lost a 2 hour show. So I am fed up with Minidisc now.
All I need to know is , do you lose the entire recording when there is a problem with the power ?
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Power failures are almost never a big deal when recording in WAV format. The data is written as it is recorded. How much effort it might take to recover - that depends on many factors, with emphasis on not a big deal.
You may only lose a few seconds of buffer, from right before power was lost. However, some recorders are designed to save and shutdown cleanly (SD 7xx).
-
Power failures are almost never a big deal when recording in WAV format. The data is written as it is recorded. How much effort it might take to recover - that depends on many factors, with emphasis on not a big deal.
You may only lose a few seconds of buffer, from right before power was lost. However, some recorders are designed to save and shutdown cleanly (SD 7xx).
Sounds awesome. Thanks.
Does this unit have a direct line out , so you can connect it to a hifi set ?
Also , when using mic in , is there a setting for -20DB ( I assume there is but want to be sure ). Does this setting ( -20DB ) stay as a default , or do you have to set it manually everytime ?
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Does this unit have a direct line out , so you can connect it to a hifi set ?
Yes.
Also , when using mic in , is there a setting for -20DB ( I assume there is but want to be sure ). Does this setting ( -20DB ) stay as a default , or do you have to set it manually everytime ?
Physical switch on the rear of the unit so there's no default to worry about.
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Thanks for the answers !!
Is the remote easy to deal with ? Judging on the pics it looks like you can't adjust the recording settings.
Are the recording settings manual or digital ( like 15-16-17 etc. ) ?
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Thanks for the answers !!
Is the remote easy to deal with ? Judging on the pics it looks like you can't adjust the recording settings.
Are the recording settings manual or digital ( like 15-16-17 etc. ) ?
Remote is a piece of cake. No it does not have any ability to remotely adjust the levels.
The recording level setting is analogue, not digital. I think all your answers to any further questions are in the instruction manual. That's how I did my homework before I went shopping.
http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebServices/RetrievePublicAsset/StepID/SEL-asset-177805/original/PCM-M10%20Manual.pdf
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Thanks for the answers !!
Is the remote easy to deal with ? Judging on the pics it looks like you can't adjust the recording settings.
Are the recording settings manual or digital ( like 15-16-17 etc. ) ?
Remote is a piece of cake. No it does not have any ability to remotely adjust the levels.
The recording level setting is analogue, not digital. I think all your answers to any further questions are in the instruction manual. That's how I did my homework before I went shopping.
http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebServices/RetrievePublicAsset/StepID/SEL-asset-177805/original/PCM-M10%20Manual.pdf
Sure thing .
Here's a question that can only be answered by an user.
How does the backlight work during a concert ? Is it really bright ? can you watch it from different angles ?
I remember my old DAT , you really had to put it in a certain direction to be able to read the screen !
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Sure thing .
Here's a question that can only be answered by an user.
How does the backlight work during a concert ? Is it really bright ? can you watch it from different angles ?
I remember my old DAT , you really had to put it in a certain direction to be able to read the screen !
I recorded a concert of our church choir last saturday. Since it was a combination of music and light effects (Missa Lumen), the church was dark in the beginning. The backlight of my M10 was permanently on, and everything on the display was very good readable - this despite the fact that I am very myopic... BTW the backlight has a warm red-orange color that is easy on the eyes. The brightness is just right - if I need a flashlight, I pull out my LED one ;D
Greetings,
Rainer
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My M-10 was purchased in late June. Records fine.
Intermittent (i.e. not every time) loss of clock setting when:
1) sitting on a shelf with good NiMH batteries, in powersave/standby
2) sitting on a shelf turned off
3) when batteries removed and reinserted (least common)
4) after sitting <off> all night with AC cord connected (this AM)
5) after completing an upload or doanload via USB to a W-XP computer
I called Sony today (one of the longest voice mail runarounds I have ever had, with endless hold, hangups, etc._
eventually referred to the proper number which is
1-800-883-6817
which is "product operations support center" for pro gear
you will end up using <5> and then <1> as your voice-tree routing selections
I spoke to a friendly and apparently reasonably knowledgeable person. He said
1) the Li-ion battery stores ALL the settings, not just clock, so if the other settings are not lost, it probably isn't the battery.
2) the commands to control clock setting, retention, and readout are part of the EPROM, which may be the source of the problem
3) if there is something wrong with the clock oscillator that might be a prob. source
They have no current knowledge of or fix for the problem, as noted above. I told him they will be hearing about it from a bunch of other people, so I hope other users will add to the population of reported problems
The service rep suggested I send it in with proof of purchase and written description of the problem (no RMA is necessary)
to
Sony Service Center
123 W. Tryon Ave.
Teaneck, NJ 07666
He said they might replace the main circuit board, if they can't find and fix the problem, or else fix it and send it back with the original circuit board.
Turnaround time right now is about 7 days, but of course they have to make the problem occur first.
Regarding warranty, I was told that if the unit is physically submitted to them for service, and a problem case started while under warranty, then usually they will extend the warranty period to cover the time until it is fixed effectively.
Since the unit still records fine, and I don't know how long they will take, it's frustrating to be without it, but the rep suggested taking care of it ASAP rather than waiting for some kind of official recognition of the problem.
I will wait a few days to see if anyone else has a solution from SONY, and then send it in.
TG
-
I have 2 m10s and the clocks on both have held there setting for the past 5 months.
-
Thanks for the answers !!
Is the remote easy to deal with ? Judging on the pics it looks like you can't adjust the recording settings.
Are the recording settings manual or digital ( like 15-16-17 etc. ) ?
Remote is a piece of cake. No it does not have any ability to remotely adjust the levels.
The recording level setting is analogue, not digital. I think all your answers to any further questions are in the instruction manual. That's how I did my homework before I went shopping.
http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebServices/RetrievePublicAsset/StepID/SEL-asset-177805/original/PCM-M10%20Manual.pdf
Sure thing .
Here's a question that can only be answered by an user.
How does the backlight work during a concert ? Is it really bright ? can you watch it from different angles ?
I remember my old DAT , you really had to put it in a certain direction to be able to read the screen !
Your options are on, off, on 10 sec or 60 secs .I have no problem reading it.
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J&R is offering these with free shipping for $199. http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_PCMM10B/
Use coupon code: GEICO10 and get it for $189 shipped.
I think I might have to finally pull the trigger on one of these today.
edit - pulled the trigger :)
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Is the free case offer still going? I did a little searching but couldn't find much. B&H's site states a free case with purchase, but that's most likely their own offer.
I'm assuming, no.
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I'm assuming, no.
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Well after 5 months i just had to reset the clock.
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Hello :) this a is fantastic forum, i have learned a lot of things about this device (Sony PCM-M10) before to buy it.
But reading this thread i have several questions about the bug of the clock too... I write here if somebody knows deails.
Does the bug is a generall issue in all the machines? of in a concrete consignment of manufacturing ?, the last machines has the bug, or this issue has been solved? ???
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Hello :) this a is fantastic forum, i have learned a lot of things about this device (Sony PCM-M10) before to buy it.
But reading this thread i have several questions about the bug of the clock too... I write here if somebody knows deails.
Does the bug is a generall issue in all the machines? of in a concrete consignment of manufacturing ?, the last machines has the bug, or this issue has been solved? ???
not all of them have the issue or at least not everyone has experienced it
sony has yet to say that there is a issue and we are not sure if they do what can/will be done
there seems to be no rhyme or reason to when people have bought theirs on if they have a clock issue or not
for me the issue is small and not worth the headache of sending to sony for them to "research" the problem so from time to time i just have to rest it and it take 1 minute to do - with that said if recording time is an issue the clock does not need to be set, all it does is save the time in the file and since i change the file names when i get home anyway it doesn't make much difference to me
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I have two M10's. The clock only resets when I swap out the batteries. No problems when powering on after sitting for any length of time.
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I have owned my r09 since they first came out, and I've only ever had to set the clock once.
You shouldn't have to set the clock after changing the batteries. That's what the internal backup is for. Given all the reports here, I don't believe Sony when they say they don't know about this. Surely some of them actually use the recorder.
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My M10 has this problem.
It seems like if I am using the deck for a while it's OK, but after a few weeks in the drawer, it forgets the time&date.
I will call Sony and add it to the list of M10s that have this issue.
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Is the free case offer still going? I did a little searching but couldn't find much. B&H's site states a free case with purchase, but that's most likely their own offer.
I'm assuming, no.
B&H still has the free case offer on their site, but the price is $230 total w/free shipping (at some point it was down to $200 total on B&H). I'm thinking about getting one of these but the clock issue has tempered my enthusiasm a bit.
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B&H still has the free case offer on their site, but the price is $230 total w/free shipping (at some point it was down to $200 total on B&H). I'm thinking about getting one of these but the clock issue has tempered my enthusiasm a bit.
The clock issue has effected a very small number of people, maybe two dozen. If yours has the issue, contact B&H and tell them it is defective, they will issue an RMA and provide a shipping label for free. Its unfortunate that sony doesn't release firmware updates since this DOES seem to be an actual issue but perhaps if enough units are exchanged for another, some action will be taken.
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The clock issue has effected a very small number of people, maybe two dozen. If yours has the issue, contact B&H and tell them it is defective, they will issue an RMA and provide a shipping label for free. Its unfortunate that sony doesn't release firmware updates since this DOES seem to be an actual issue but perhaps if enough units are exchanged for another, some action will be taken.
It's odd and rather disappointing that Sony doesn't do firmware updates. But anyway, I will probably get one of these if I can find a nice deal like B&H had awhile ago ($200 w/case). Is this unit svelte enough to fit in a shirt breast pocket?
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The clock issue has effected a very small number of people, maybe two dozen. If yours has the issue, contact B&H and tell them it is defective, they will issue an RMA and provide a shipping label for free. Its unfortunate that sony doesn't release firmware updates since this DOES seem to be an actual issue but perhaps if enough units are exchanged for another, some action will be taken.
It's odd and rather disappointing that Sony doesn't do firmware updates. But anyway, I will probably get one of these if I can find a nice deal like B&H had awhile ago ($200 w/case). Is this unit svelte enough to fit in a shirt breast pocket?
Fits in a shirt pocket easy...
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Yeah but for how long will the vendor exchange it? We've read cases where the issue took a while to develop.
I think amazon is 30 days. It'll be interesting to see what sony does/says in the cases where folks have sent them in.
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Fits in a shirt pocket easy...
Excellent, thanks. Now just need to find a good deal...
edit: any problems with class 2 sandisk 16gb m2/microsd cards? class 4/6 unnecessary?
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I use 16 gig class 2 card, sandisk without any issue.
just note that when you power the unit on, it reads the internal memory and then the external. its never fast enough when you're not ready but otherwise, its very quick.
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I use 16 gig class 2 card, sandisk without any issue.
just note that when you power the unit on, it reads the internal memory and then the external. its never fast enough when you're not ready but otherwise, its very quick.
Cool, thanks. What do you mean by it not being fast enough when you're not ready? Do you mean it doesn't start recording prompty when you hit 'record' or... ?
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I was really being factitious. When you turn the recorder on, it takes 3-4 seconds or so to read the internal memory and external memory and you can't interrupt it during that time. I never have it on 3-4 seconds prior :(
The nice thing about the recorder is that if you leave it alone for 10 minutes (a time you can't change) and press record, it instantly wakes up and is ready to record as soon as you hit pause again to start recording.
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Oh I see, thanks for the info. With the reported battery life on the M10 and with a 8 or 16gb card, I imagine I'll just start recording well before the show starts and keep it in hold mode.
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I have had my PCM-M10 since last winter and have never had a clock problem.
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ditto...
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Yeah but for how long will the vendor exchange it? We've read cases where the issue took a while to develop.
And you're right. After just on 12 months (typical, outside of warranty), my clock has now started to lose it after a day in the drawer. I think I jinxed myself saying that I haven't had the problem. :)
That said, it's not a big deal but considering I noticed a few months ago it was actually running behind by an order of hours before losing time completely last week, I get the feeling that this could be an issue with a passive component gradually dying, perhaps a bad electrolytic cap gradually drying up.
I'll have to try and get my hands on a service manual for this to track down the clock circuitry, see how it's derived and what are the surrounding components.
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I assume the M10 has consumer line inputs?
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a correction on obtaining Sony service for the PCM-m10
Product support services had previously (incorrectly) referred us to the New Jersey repair center
When logging onto the Sony Professional Service website, it showed that Pro Audo goes to the LA Service Center, not NJ
I called the Teaneck, N.J. center and after 8 minutes on hold, got to speak with a tech rep (not a technicican; could not discuss technical questions, which the people at Product Operations Support Center will and can do)
He stated that the PCM-M10 should be sent to:
Sony Service Center
Sony Electronics Inc.
2706 Media Center Drive, Suite 130
LA, CA 90065
their phone number is (323) 352-5000
email: LAService@am.sony.com
He said that including transcripts of our posts concerning the problem 'couldn't hurt'. I will not include anyone's personal info if i do -- how do people feel about that?.
A RMA is not required, but he emailed me a Service Reqest Form.
For those of you who are not sure about whether to get this handled now under warranty, consider the following ominous words from the request form:
"Flat Rate Repairs
• Certain DVCAM and small-format units are repaired for a fixed charge which includes Labor, Parts and Return
Shipping. (Applicable State Sales Tax is not included in this Flat Rate)"
for out of warranty repairs
"ESTIMATES
• WE WILL PROVIDE A DETAILED ESTIMATE FOR YOUR APPROVAL.
• THERE IS A DIAGNOSTIC CHARGE OF $135 PLUS RETURN SHIPPING, INSURANCE AND SALES TAX FOR DECLINED ESTIMATES."
considering the cost of the unit, the cost of a 'refused estimate' for out of warranty work will be more than the unit is worth.
In the past I have had Sony quote me out of warranty repair charges (for a so-called Pro Walkman -- HA!) that were more than the unit was worth.
I asked about their policy on repairing intermittent problems and was told 'in that case they leave it on the bench longer'. Since our clock problems require human interaction (changes of battery, power state, USB communication, etc.) I'm not sure how that works out, and I wasn't talking to a tech.
Mine stopped giving problems after I found the receipt and got a box ready.......then it started again, so I guess it's off to sunny SoCal for an unknown period of time. Usual Sony turnaround was stated as "7-10 working days" which is pretty standard for routine electronic repairs. Intermittents take longer, of course.
I sure hope other people send their in as well, so Sony have to figure out a decent way to deal with this.
The Repair Request Form is not required, but 'might be helpful'. If you want me to I will post it (28K pdf). I didn't want to clutter the thread unless people want it. It might save you a phone call or surfing for the right Sony service website.
T
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He said that including transcripts of our posts concerning the problem 'couldn't hurt'. I will not include anyone's personal info if i do -- how do people feel about that?.
I think if you remove the people's usernames (especially as some are people's real names) it would be anonymous enough for people. But you're really planning on sending it in and paying almost the cost of the unit to have them maybe diagnose and fix the clock issue? AFAIK, the clock issue has been annoying to people but hasn't interfered in anyway really with the recordings that people have made. Well, if you do send it in, please share the findings (if they share them with you) here.
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you can include my info in anything you do
i don't see how it can hurt me in fact assist me if they find out there is an issue
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su6oxone said:
"But you're really planning on sending it in and paying almost the cost of the unit to have them maybe diagnose and fix the clock issue? AFAIK, the clock issue has been annoying to people but hasn't interfered in anyway really with the recordings that people have made. "
I agree. If it were out of warranty I would certainly not bother.
The initial 90 day warranty is "repair or replace", including parts and labor, after that, the small print says they cover parts, but not labor for the rest of the warranty year. I had not realized that, or I would have jumped on this sooner, since my unit did malfunction within the 90 day period. The tech rep I spoke to was not able to tell me if I would be charged or not. "I understand where you're coming from" was his reply to my statement that if they intend to charge me bench rates, it would be uneconomical to fix it. He suggested I email the Service department directly and ask.
I would be.....ummmmmm......seriously disappointed in Sony if they want to charge me for fixing an issue that should have been debugged before release. I have an email into Sony LA Service right now, which they have read, but not yet replied to.
I mentioned in my email this thread (with URL), and the fact that multiple users have had the problem, but nobody has yet sent in a unit, so of course they have not had a chance to deal with it in any practical way. If they know anything about making friends with high quality after market service, and the meaning of 'professional', they should treat us right. If not, the net makes it easy for others to become aware of the issue, so they can decide for themselves how important it is in their choice of gear.
I'm quite happy with the recording quality of the unit for my purposes. It won't record (i.e. initiate a file) unless the clock is set, so it seems unlikely one would 'miss' a recording due to unset clock. Nobody has yet reported loss of clock while the unit is actually recording. That's why I won't bother repairing it if they intend to charge me for within-warranty repair. It's a relatively minor functional issue, but the way Sony handles it will determine if I am likely ever to buy another Sony product. Many years ago when I was in the audio biz, I sold a lot of Sony gear. In those days it was well made, well designed, and well supported. We now have an opportunity to see if this is still the case.
TG
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I purchased my PCM-M10 at the end of June and only used it 2 times in July ...after seeing this thread I pulled it from the
draw and have the same clock issue...I bought mine from B&H ...I will call and ask if they will issue an RMA and replacement unit.
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Sony's service has dwindled since at least 15 years ago from what I can remember, when I had a WM-BF608 walkman whose audio output died in the left ear. I took it in to Sony Australia's service department to check it out (and thankfully before they had diagnostic fees to charge). When they got back to me with the quote, it was going to be $160. Hell no, considering the walkman cost me $250! It served me right for being a lazy electrical engineer who couldn't be bothered to fix his own prized possession.
I then bought myself the service manual for $20 and began my diagnosis, found a dry joint on the board, resoldered it and voila! A $20 repair job.
So I'm not surprised at their treatment of the issue outside of warranty which is why I'll be looking to diagnose the problem myself once I get my hands on a service manual for it. Once I have figured it out, I will let you all know the solution. Until then, hang tight. :)
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imo no one should be charged for a repair/replacement because its a defect
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imo no one should be charged for a repair/replacement because its a defect
:clapping:
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That is a steep diag fee for a $200 recorder. Fwiw, the reports I've read on Edirol's service suggest they are far more reasonable. I recall they've even done some stuff out of warranty.
I do a lot of field recording that is not a "show". Having an accurate clock means I can tell the day and time of a particular recording, and match it to photos or video I shot. That's fairly important.
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That is a steep diag fee for a $200 recorder. Fwiw, the reports I've read on Edirol's service suggest they are far more reasonable. I recall they've even done some stuff out of warranty.
I do a lot of field recording that is not a "show". Having an accurate clock means I can tell the day and time of a particular recording, and match it to photos or video I shot. That's fairly important.
you would still be ok as long as you set the clock
it doesn't reset right away, it takes a day or so
so although it is a pain you could still have the date/time on what you record
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There are a lot of times I need to start recording Right Now and don't have time to fuss with a clock. I haven't had to set the clock on my r09 in *years*.
It'll be interesting to see how Sony handles this. It isn't an end of the world sort of problem, but it isn't insignificant either. Especially considering their rather excessive diag fee.
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Here's the reply of Sony's Regional Service Manager for (West Coast) Pro Audio to my email requesting clarification of how my 'clock issue' problem would be handled. You will recall I had sent him a complete description of the failure modes, as well as the comments of other users here with the same problem, in multiple units, including those who had previously contacted Sony with the same issue, and the comments of Sony Product Operation Support regarding possible EPROM or clock oscillator problem source. His initial response to me had been 'we have never heard of this before, seems like an internal battery problem, send it to us' and I had again asked what it would cost for warranty service.
"[...] I have presented your situation to the sustaining engineer for the product and he has not heard of this problem either. He did ask to verify that you were following the precise steps for setting the clock. His comments:
"I have never heard of this as a problem but I have ran into this in the past and the problem was in not following the clock settings correctly. After setting the clock the user must press the ENTER (Play) key else if they press any other key prior to pressing the ENTER key the clock setting will be aborted. A proper clock setting must be executed in order for the unit to retain proper clock data."
Since the unit was purchased over 90 days ago, it is still within the parts warranty, but out of the labor warranty. The labor charge would be $90.
Regards,
Steve
==========================================================
Words fail me.
TG
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Yeah, you all are just doing it wrong. Your VCR is probably blinking 12:00 too :P
And if the clock is failing in the drawer, well, your kid must be playing with it.
Sometimes you need to kick companies to own up to their products' issues.
Suggestion: make a video that shows you following the instructions exactly, with the clock subsequently failing. Then you post it to youtube. You might include the instructions in the video, etc.
Call it "Sony, WTF?"
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The Service Manager is consulting with the Product Manager regarding warranty repair coverage of this unit. I told him there are a bunch of us with the problem, and even more of us watching, and the Internet is forever, and Sony has a chance to "make a lot of friends by handling this in a "top class" manner as they say in Morita-san's homeland" I thanked him for his continued help.
Stay tuned
TG
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The Service Manager is consulting with the Product Manager regarding warranty repair coverage of this unit. I told him there are a bunch of us with the problem, and even more of us watching, and the Internet is forever, and Sony has a chance to "make a lot of friends by handling this in a "top class" manner as they say in Morita-san's homeland" I thanked him for his continued help.
Stay tuned
TG
:clapping:
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I want a clear answer as I havent understood what I read from previous posts.
When the memory card is full and (using the cross memory feature) then the unit records in the built-in memory the audio files split.
I want to ask you if we lose some audio information at this very point and also if I merge the audio files in -lets say- audacity will I have a smooth result?
Thank you
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file splitting is seamless from internal to external memory without any issues. Yes, you can combine an internal recording with an external recording without any issues.
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If you prefer to just use a memory card can you choose to just record to that and not use the internal memory (I think I read something about this somewhere deep in the bowels of these massive M10 threads)?
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Yes, you can use internal or external memory and enable or disable cross memory recording.
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awesome, thanks.
clock issue notwithstanding, it sounds like the m10 is the near perfect small cheap recorder.
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Can anyone recommend a store selling the M10 in the Eurozone?
Cheers.
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PCM-M10-handheld-digital-recorder/dp/B0030BZPKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291497945&sr=8-1
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PCM-M10-handheld-digital-recorder/dp/B0030BZPKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291497945&sr=8-1
EURO-zone....
http://www.feedback.nl/recorders/sony/pcm-m-10
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Can anyone tell me if the official Sony carrying case's lid is attached to the case by a hinge, or if it justs comes on and off?
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Can anyone tell me if the official Sony carrying case's lid is attached to the case by a hinge, or if it justs comes on and off?
the one I received thru the rebate program is attached
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Can anyone tell me if the official Sony carrying case's lid is attached to the case by a hinge, or if it justs comes on and off?
the one I received thru the rebate program is attached
thanks!
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PCM-M10-handheld-digital-recorder/dp/B0030BZPKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291497945&sr=8-1
EURO-zone....
http://www.feedback.nl/recorders/sony/pcm-m-10
Thank you for the tips.
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Hi,
Im lucky owner of pcm-m10 from couple days.
I also have Zoom H4n for comparison.
The main use of those recorders for me is recording our VERY amateur gigs.
I recorded our gig with h4n, where you can hear how does it sound like:
http://www.box.net/shared/icea87xlg6 (http://www.box.net/shared/icea87xlg6)
Next week i also recorded with m10:
http://www.box.net/shared/dn8e7xuy3a (http://www.box.net/shared/dn8e7xuy3a)
Both were set on manual settings with average -12dB.
Both with internal mics only. Both in almost the same position on a mic stand.
Sony was set low sensitivity setting for mics.
The main difference was that h4n mics were set with 120 degrees, whereas sony doesnt allow such change of mics position and its fixed to 90deg only.
Go ahead and hear the difference.
For me h4n sounds much better, or maybe its adding something.
I wonder how its possible, because every comparison said that sony has better mics, preamp and overall quality.
Any suggestions how to get our records sound better on sony ?
thanks
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The main difference was that h4n mics were set with 120 degrees, whereas sony doesnt allow such change of mics position and its fixed to 90deg only.
Go ahead and hear the difference.
For me h4n sounds much better, or maybe its adding something.
I wonder how its possible, because every comparison said that sony has better mics, preamp and overall quality.
Any suggestions how to get our records sound better on sony ?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or the ear, as the case may be). Having listened to both sets of recordings, I find the Zoom sounds a little dull and bottom-heavy. Now bear in mind, there's nothing wrong with that but it's just not to my taste. The Sony, on the other hand, while its stereo imaging was a little lacklustre (which I attribute to the fixed mics), it was a more balanced recording overall. I dare say that a fairer comparison in terms of set up (obviously not budget) may be to use the Sony PCM-D50 with its mics adjusted 120 degrees as well or otherwise use the same external mics on both the H4N and PCM-M10.
How do you get it to record a better sound? Get some external mics.
If external mics aren't an option, I'd be opting to use a PCM-D50 over the PCM-M10 any day despite the price difference. Again, it all boils down to personal taste though and there is no single correct answer for everyone.
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Apologies if this has already been answered already in the thread (didn't fancy trawling 91 pages of posts to make sure)...
But what class of Micro SD card should I be looking at buying for the M10? The 8GB SDHC class 2 and class 4 seem very reasonably priced at the moment - would either of these be ok?
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Apologies if this has already been answered already in the thread (didn't fancy trawling 91 pages of posts to make sure)...
But what class of Micro SD card should I be looking at buying for the M10? The 8GB SDHC class 2 and class 4 seem very reasonably priced at the moment - would either of these be ok?
I've been told that class 2 are fine, but I went ahead and ordered a class 6 transcend 8gb ($20 at amazon) just to be on the safe side. I've had 'slow card' errors on my R-09HR in the past when using slower cards so I decided to play it safe.
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Thanks for that.
The Transcend 8GB Class 6 is only £10 on Amazon UK - I'll give these a go unless anyone has noted any issues with them.
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I opted for Sony M2 memory stick and ran a quick benchmark. Nearest I can tell, it clocks in something short of what would qualify as class 4.
(http://snpi.dell.com/snp/images/products/A3242267.JPG)
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The Sony, on the other hand, while its stereo imaging was a little lacklustre (which I attribute to the fixed mics), it was a more balanced recording overall.
The Sony M10 has closely spaced omni mics. It wouldn't matter which way you pointed them, you would still get a poor stereo image. In fact, that's about the only redeeming feature of that mic arrangement, because you can use it vertical or horizontal and it really won't make much difference.
If that mic arrangement was a good idea, it would appear in the technical literature on mic techniques. It doesn't. It leads in particular to a skewing of the stereo image based on frequency, with low frequencies clumping in the centre of the image, and high frequencies moving to the edges.
Sorry to repeat that, but I detect in the posts above that not everyone is aware of that downside with this otherwise fine recorder.
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Sorry, I should've been a little more elaborate and specified fixed omni mics but yes, that's the point I was making.
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with low frequencies clumping in the centre of the image, and high frequencies moving to the edges.
Perfect for band rehearsals.
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Why is that?
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the skin effect due to eddy currents . . .
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the skin effect due to eddy currents . . .
;D
(Wiping coffee off my PC screen)
You made my day.
Greetings,
Rainer
BTW it seems the angled omnis are perfect for recording interviews or meetings. We should always remember that the world of digital recorders does not revolve around us tapers...
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We should always remember that the world of digital recorders does not revolve around us tapers...
What the heck are you talking about? it totally revolves around tapers.....
:lol:
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To improve stereo separation and eliminate handling noise, is it possible that the internal mics of the PCM-M10 are extended on cables? Has anyone opened the PCM-M10 and can recommend if its possible. Would the actual cables increase noise?
P.S. no, I wont fare easier with having a pre-amp and external mics. I tape quite music in stealth and extra gear is not possible and i got more hiss when i did even with mics intended for clasical music. In addition the quite results of the PCM-M10 are fine with me. So please kindly refrain form this option- my question is different.
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Why is that?
You only need to point it at the kit to get a semi-mono, bass-in-the-middle snapshot of your band. In my experience, mono is the best way to check instrument balance, tempo, and generally whether the song cooks or not.
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To improve stereo separation and eliminate handling noise, is it possible that the internal mics of the PCM-M10 are extended on cables? Has anyone opened the PCM-M10 and can recommend if its possible. Would the actual cables increase noise?
P.S. no, I wont fare easier with having a pre-amp and external mics. I tape quite music in stealth and extra gear is not possible and i got more hiss when i did even with mics intended for clasical music. In addition the quite results of the PCM-M10 are fine with me. So please kindly refrain form this option- my question is different.
I tried something different: I took a piece of foam plastic for packing purposes (15cm diameter, 1cm thick) and cut a notch into it. Now it slides over the front of the M10 between the microphones and acts as a kind of "Jecklin disc". The stereo separation is much better now. For "Jecklin disc", look here:
http://www.josephson.com/tn5.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jecklin_Disk
Try it! I did not test how far i could reduce the size of the disc, but even at 10cm diameter, it should give an easily discernable improvement.
Greetings,
Rainer
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The post-production fix for M10 stereo problems is mentioned at http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.msg1769790#msg1769790
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I cannot use a disc for stealth.
My main concern is not stereo seperation only but handling noise.
My questions remains the same as above.
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anyone know the best site to order this international, had a look at a couple and cheapest i could find to new zealand was $50 for postage
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:D I promised an update on Sony's handling of the 'clock issue', so here it is--
For those who don't want to scroll endlessly for the story: my unit developed the clock issue after a few months. I waited until six months post purchase to call it in, after reading the thread here. I called around at Sony, and finally reached Sony Pro Audio support (scroll back for address and phone number). They initially told me they would charge me $90 under the 'parts exchange warranty', which I found ....ummm....unattractive. I explained the fact that numerous others had reported the problem, and sent them thread exerpts as evidence.
Steve Gill, the Pro Audio Service Mgr. in LA has stepped up and handled this for us in a way I think is pretty impressive. Given his position and duties, I am sure he has more pressing problems than teething issues on a $200 prosumer unit. However he went to the Sustaining Engineer, and the Product manager, and produced a solution, and they exchanged my unit.
I sent it back at my expense, and they shipped the replacement back at their expense. They sent a new set of batteries with it.
I now have in my hands a replacement unit. I don't know if it is new or refurb (sent bare in bubble wrap, without the imprinted screen cover) or new. If it is refurb, it is very clean, and I don't think it is likely to have suffered any mechanical damage. They even called me before shipping to see if it was ok to send a black unit instead of a red unit. Fine with me -- I'll take what I can get.
I set it up, put the flash card back in, and am using it. We shall see if the clock issue reoccurs. Since shipping and insurance to Sony was about $17 bucks I will probably just learn to live with it if it occurs again.
Relevant to the rest of you, here is Steve's explanation of current policy:
"Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. There was an internal glitch that has now been resolved. The original support philosophy for this model was supposed to be product exchange within the warranty period. This conflicted with the one year parts/90-day labor warranty that was assigned to the product. The product manager has now recognized the conflict and has changed the warranty to 1 year/1 year so we can proceed with an exchange. Before we do that, however, let me get one in my hands and I will notify you to send yours in for the exchange. If you know others who are having the same problem, they should be sending them in for exchange as well. If you still have the form I sent you, we will need that sent in with your unit and a hard copy of your proof of purchase.
Thank you for your patience,
Steve"
So the moral of the story seems to be, if you have a problem, Steve/Sony is interested in doing the right thing. Contact <LAservice@am.sony.com>, be courteous, objective, request the service request form (they will email you) and be patient in corresponding about the issue. They still have no idea what the problem is, since this "is a new unit" and mine is apparently the first actually sent to them with the problem. I asked the last person (not a tech) I spoke to if they would interrogate the EPROM to look for the problem, and he didn't know. If it's cheaper just to exchange the units, I don't know if they will look for the electronic problem unless and untill they get a bunch of them back.
I hope this helps some other folks. I told SONY there were a bunch of us looking for a solution. I hope some other in-warranty users will also obtain service. If there are enough units with the problem, maybe even post warranty users ('who didn't bother sending my unit in because I figured the parts exchange cost would be too great) might receive some consideration/adjustment.
My thanks to the other posters with this problem, who provided the additional evidence that may have helped Sony arrive at their current helpful policy decision.
TG
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Excellent news, glad you got everything taken care of and thanks for keeping us posted. Only thing, though, is that Sony isn't fixing the issue really and is just giving you a new unit that will probably have its clock malfunction at some point until it exceeds the 1year/1year modified warranty peroid and then you'll probably be stuck with it. I would have preferred if they had just fixed the issue and returned that one so you wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. Probably it's not worth the cost of repairing and it's cheaper to just send out some refurbs to appease the customer.
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If they repaired it, it would have taken a lot longer. First they would have had to get it to screw up....how long would that take? I'd rather have a unit, although like you I am curious about the cause.
You may be right, they may only exchange them.....Presumably eventually they put a new clock and/or motherboard in them, and turn them around as refurbs.
In truly 'professional' gear and contexts, (medical equipment, industrial equipment, famous audio studios, etc.) it's quite common for a 'top class' mfg to send a user a replacement unit, to avoid lost time which can have serious consequences.
To some degree it's up to us. If they get back a dozen or more units from us, they may decide it's too big a problem to leave in the firmware, or wherever the prob is, and they may actually take some of them apart and interrogate them or try to duplicate the problem.
They had to find a unit to replace mine -- it took several days for the LA Pro Audio office to find a unit for me. I don't believe they even have another replacement in hand right now, which is why they sent me a black one to replace my red one. That leads me to suspect that if they get a bunch of replacement requests it will cause them enough inconvenience to make it more worth their time to identifiy the cause of the problem, figure out a fix, or at least a way to prevent the issue in future production runs of the unit.
It also means it will require patience and tact on the part of users to get max cooperation from the service department. A word to the wise....
I hope other affected users will make use of the upgraded service policy -- that's the only reason I posted the story. The LA service mgr went out of his way to fix this, and a solution is possible under warranty at very nominal cost (shipping one way). They could haved told me to read the fine print and piss off, but they didn't. They stepped up and did the right thing. It's up to the user community to respond.
If my new one messes up, I will send them an email and say 'what do you think is appropriate'. At that point they would have a hard time classifying it as a random failure.....
I want to see what they do with our colleague with the three bad units.....that should make them take notice.
TG
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So far I really like the M10, it's a very nice little recorder. A bit plasticky, but overall nicer than the R-09HR/R-09 that I owned in the past although it falls a bit short of the Olympus LS-10 in terms of materials and build quality IMO.
One thing though, is there no adjustment of the backlight besides on/off? I've never seen a LCD/OLED screen on a recorder that didn't let you adjust the backlight brightness, but I can't seem to find anything in the menus. It's plenty readable in low light conditions and not too bright even in the dark, but I wonder how viewable it will be outdoors in the sunlight.
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not sure i want to deal with sending mine in for a refurb when setting the clock doesn't kill me and really is only now and then
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I picked up at Lowepro Ridge 20 at Sport Chalet for $7.99 the other day. It fits the M10 just barely and has room for a set of batteries and extra cards.
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I need a equipment case for this recorder, but I don't know if the Lowepro will work. I want to hang the M10 on/ off a tripod. So, The case needs to be a pouch with a small shoulder or hand strap of some kind. It also MUST have the ability to plug in a mike while it's in the case. A plus would to be able to plug in headphones too? I guess a Right angle adapter, along with a larger roomy case could better facilitate Headphone use? Thoughts? I also feel a top flap opening may be best? Something the unit could easily be slid in and out of while in use because, I don't think I could ever find anything allowing "in case" button operation! I already have the "Zune" case mentioned earlier, and while it's great for storage, the unit's not usable while tucked inside!
This setup will be for outdoor / storm recording.
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Get a lunch bag. It meets all the requirements you want.
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I was thinking for along the lines of a Tricorder case from Star Trek TOS ;D :D
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The Lowepro mentioned above comes with a strap, has multiple loops on the back for clipping or attaching to a belt, and zips open over the top of the recorder giving access to the mic/line in. It's definitely a solid little pouch.
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The lowepro is close to my needs, However I could see that zipper srcatching the M10 screen as it's repeatedly slipped in and out to make adjustments, set levels. A top load with small flap, and no zipper would prove better for this use I think.
Edit: I think I found it after looking at over 200 cases on Amazon! :P http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81Yotd-FLcL._AA1235_.jpg
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What make/model is that case?
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Here it is, but it's kinda pricey for what it is. If anyone knows of a cheaper way, let me know! http://www.amazon.com/Tamrac-5689-Compact-Digital-Black/dp/B001E3XLZS/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1292784653&sr=8-17
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And another question,
Has it been determined if the Line in completely bypasses the Mic pre stage, or if it only pads down the input? If it's the later, There would be no use adding an external pre for lowered noise levels.
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The Lowepro Ridge 30 is a little bigger than the 20, which leaves room at the side for the remote plug and at the top for mic/line in. The slot in the front flap--which I don't think the Tamrac case has--is perfect for the PCM-M10 remote. That's mostly what you're going to be using to control the recorder anyway. It's easy to let it hang open a little and see the green/red lights near the top if you're worried about levels, and you can reach in and turn the knob.
http://www.amazon.com/Lowepro-Ridge-Camera-Case-Black/dp/B000BH1GFK/ref=pd_cp_p_1
As for the zipper, put a screen protector on the PCM-M10 even if you do use a different case. Why take chances?
Here it is, but it's kinda pricey for what it is. If anyone knows of a cheaper way, let me know! http://www.amazon.com/Tamrac-5689-Compact-Digital-Black/dp/B001E3XLZS/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1292784653&sr=8-17
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Hi everyone,
I'm brand new to this forum - just registered.
I'm also a new owner of the PCM-M10 - it's an amazing piece of hardware.
I have a question that some might say is off-topic for this forum because it involves using the PCM-M10 for playback of files obtained from other sources rather than files recorded on the deck itself, but here goes...
There are a couple of sites out there from which one can download 96-Khz/24-bit FLAC files of mostly classical or jazz recordings.
I have converted some of these purchased recordings from FLAC to WAV (decompressing them, but leaving them at 96/24) using dbPoweramp software. Loading the WAVs to the PCM-M10, I then make use of its DAC for playback at 96/24 via the Line Out to feed a nice external headphone amp and headphones. The whole idea, here, is to achieve high quaility portable audio.
Obviously, there's a whole lot more choice available in 44.1-kHz/16-bit CD format, which leads to my question (to anyone who cares to answer):
In your opinion, would it be best, in terms of sound quality, to just convert 44.1/16 content to WAV for playback on the PCM-M10, without upsampling or increasing the bit depth (to 96/16 or 96/24, for example)?
I'm eager to learn so feel free to correct me if I say something ignorant here, but at the moment, I believe that a bit depth of 24-bit offers nothing over 16-bit in terms of improved sound quality on playback, because the dynamic range supported by 16-bit is more than sufficient for both our ears and our audio hardware. (I know, however, that even 32-bit can be of great benefit when recording.)
My question is more to the subject of sampling frequency - specifically, whether or not there's any benefit to be enjoyed (on playback), having upsampled a 44.1-kHz file to 88.2- or 96-kHz.
Which leads to another question: The specs for the PCM-M10 make no mention (that I've seen) of support for 88.2 kHz sampling. Does anyone know if it can play an 88.2 kHz WAV, even though it can't record at that frequency? If so, does anyone believe that upsampling from 44.1-kHz to 88.2 kHz would provide superior results on playback vs. upsampling from 44.1 to 96?
Lastly, to save space on my microSDHC cards, I'm thinking of using dbPoweramp to reduce the bit depth of the 96/24 content purchased online to 96/16 (without changing the sampling frequency). Does anyone think, again in terms of sound quality on playback, that I'd be better off leaving those files alone (as 96/24 WAVs)? Not so much to preserve the 24-bit dynamics, which I contend cannot be appreciated, but rather to simply avoid a possible loss in playback quality caused by "over-processing" the files - adding one more step to the workflow.
Thank you everyone, in advance. I'm looking forward to your responses.
Mike
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In my view any kind of upsampling isn't worthwhile as you can't magically extract something from the original audio which wasn't there in the first place.
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In your opinion, would it be best, in terms of sound quality, to just convert 44.1/16 content to WAV for playback on the PCM-M10, without upsampling or increasing the bit depth (to 96/16 or 96/24, for example)?
I'm eager to learn so feel free to correct me if I say something ignorant here, but at the moment, I believe that a bit depth of 24-bit offers nothing over 16-bit in terms of improved sound quality on playback, because the dynamic range supported by 16-bit is more than sufficient for both our ears and our audio hardware. (I know, however, that even 32-bit can be of great benefit when recording.)
My question is more to the subject of sampling frequency - specifically, whether or not there's any benefit to be enjoyed (on playback), having upsampled a 44.1-kHz file to 88.2- or 96-kHz.
1) The fast rule is, leave it in its original format for absolute fidelity. Only convert if the equipment doesn't support the original format.
2) To my ears, 24 bit is of a great benefit when recording for the purposes of a lower noise floor, allowing for easier post-production work that may require the floor to be somewhat raised without hopefully raising too much noise with it as well. In playback, I have perceived a slight difference but I'd consider it to be insignificant. Again, that's to my ears. Everyone perceives sound and vision differently so there's no fast rule to that either.
3) Upsampling is a waste unless it's for equipment that doesn't support the existing format, which is extremely unlikely in itself. Point being, you can't gain any higher spectral definition than the lowest common denominator, simply because it was never sampled with such a resolution to begin with. There is no benefit to upsampling whatsoever in my professional opinion. If you want to achieve the highest possible playback quality, then whatever the original format is, leave it.
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2) To my ears, 24 bit is of a great benefit when recording for the purposes of a lower noise floor, allowing for easier post-production work that may require the floor to be somewhat raised without hopefully raising too much noise with it as well.
24 bits does allow more resolution to be preserved when increasing gain in post, but it does not lower the noise floor.
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Ozpeter and Artstar,
Thanks for the quick response!
My gut tells me that y'all have this figured out and, believe me, I'm already concerned about the possibility of SQ damage done by converting FLAC to WAV without changing either the sampling rate or the bit depth. At the end of the day, when I finish researching this, I hope that the right answer is to just leave files as close as possible to the way I received them.
All that said, I've been doing a lot of reading about the filtering that is performed by DACs and although the finer points completely escape me in some of the material I've studied, I'm certain there are some smart people out there who believe there is a lot to be gained in the accuracy of playback (and lack of distortion) by upsampling before playback.
One argument is that a processor fast enough to perform DAC functions with recordings that were ADC'd at 96-kHz will be handling a 44.1-kHz stream twice as fast as a 44.1-kHz DAC would - if and only if that 44.1-kHz data were disguised as 96-kHz data. That's an oversimplification born of my lack of understanding all the stuff about anti-alias filtering and such, but it kind of makes sense to me.
One guy put it like this (paraphrasing): "If you are translating a foreign language to English, would't it be great if the person you are interpreting spoke at half the speed you're comfortable with? You're translation would be far more accurate."
If you've heard arguments like this before and can point me to a good reference that disputes this position, I'm still educatable. :-\
My other question hasn't been answered (or maybe it has) - What do think about reducing the file size of 96/24 recordings (obtained from Linn or HDtracks) by 33% using dbPoweramp to reduce the bit depth from 24 to 16? As I said earlier, I don't believe the loss of dynamic range can be detected audibly, but I'm concerned about over-processing the file. Do you have any insights to offer on this?
Again, I am a lump of clay at this point - willing to be taught if the argument makes sense.
Thanks!
Mike
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My gut tells me that y'all have this figured out and, believe me, I'm already concerned about the possibility of SQ damage done by converting FLAC to WAV without changing either the sampling rate or the bit depth.
???
Decoding a FLAC to a WAV results in a bit-for-bit identical copy of the original WAV file.
There is a potential issue with metadata inside the WAV. My LS-10 puts some Olympus-specific metadata in its WAV files. If I use the --keep-foreign-metadata option when encoding the original WAV to a FLAC, and then also use that option to decode the resulting FLAC back to a WAV, I will get an identical file back.
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$ ls -l
total 67420
-rwxr-xr-x 1 russ russ 68961280 2010-12-23 16:59 LS100274.WAV
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$ flac -8 --keep-foreign-metadata LS100274.WAV
NOTE: --keep-foreign-metadata is a new feature; make sure to test the output file before deleting the original.
flac 1.2.1, Copyright (C) 2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007 Josh Coalson
flac comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. This is free software, and you are
welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions. Type `flac' for details.
LS100274.WAV: WARNING: legacy WAVE file has format type 1 but bits-per-sample=24
LS100274.WAV: wrote 37096678 bytes, ratio=0.538
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$ mv LS100274.WAV LS100274.ORIG.WAV
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$ ls -l
total 103688
-rwxr-xr-x 1 russ russ 37096678 2010-12-23 16:59 LS100274.flac
-rwxr-xr-x 1 russ russ 68961280 2010-12-23 16:59 LS100274.ORIG.WAV
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$ flac -d --keep-foreign-metadata LS100274.flac
NOTE: --keep-foreign-metadata is a new feature; make sure to test the output file before deleting the original.
flac 1.2.1, Copyright (C) 2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007 Josh Coalson
flac comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. This is free software, and you are
welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions. Type `flac' for details.
LS100274.flac: done
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$ ls -l
total 171108
-rwxr-xr-x 1 russ russ 37096678 2010-12-23 16:59 LS100274.flac
-rwxr-xr-x 1 russ russ 68961280 2010-12-23 16:59 LS100274.ORIG.WAV
-rwxr-xr-x 1 russ russ 68961280 2010-12-23 16:59 LS100274.wav
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$ cmp LS100274.ORIG.WAV LS100274.wav
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$ sha1sum LS100274.ORIG.WAV LS100274.wav
cc8f9f361af5b1a605e865829597c8d0f8acbff8 LS100274.ORIG.WAV
cc8f9f361af5b1a605e865829597c8d0f8acbff8 LS100274.wav
russ@blackbird:~/flactest$
After encoding the original WAV, I renamed it and then decoded the FLAC to a second WAV file. The cmp command generated no output, which means the files are identical. I also ran SHA-1 checksums against both the original WAV and the recreated one, and those are identical as they should be.
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Hi RJP,
Decoding a FLAC to a WAV results in a bit-for-bit identical copy of the original WAV file.
Hence, the software titled "Exact Audio Copy." I was just trying to drive home the point that I am, at heart, a guy who prefers not to over-process files, in the belief that every operation can take its toll (nearly every operation, anyway). But thanks for putting in the effort to illustrate that we can trust the software you use for converting between FLAC and WAV.
With respect for your command of the subject, I'd really appreciate your jumping in on the questions I was asking, above. Any comment there?
Thanks,
Mike
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Exact Audio Copy is a CD ripper. It will try very hard to make a bit-perfect copy of the audio on the CD, and put it into WAV files. Converting the WAV files to FLAC will make them take less space, without compromising audio quality (and it will also allow you to add tags to the files, very handy for organizing them in a player like foobar2000). Decoding the FLAC will produce precisely the same audio stream that was originally encoded. Playback quality will depend on the playback equipment.
As for upsampling a file (WAV or FLAC), I don't see any point in it. The upsampler might try to interpolate the samples it adds, but "interpolate" is just a fancy word for "guess." It certainly won't increase the high frequency resolution, since higher frequencies (beyond what the original sampling rate can resolve) were never there to begin with.
My $0.02 is that sampling rates beyond 48 kHz aren't worth the extra space needed, unless you are: a) actually recording at the higher sampling rate, b) have equipment that accurately captures, passes, and plays ultrasonic audio, and c) are recording for scientific or engineering reasons that require ultrasonic resolution, or for an audience that can actually hear ultrasonic frequencies (such as dogs or bats).
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24 bits does allow more resolution to be preserved when increasing gain in post, but it does not lower the noise floor.
The noise floor is pertinent to the highest common denominator. Ergo, if the analogue stage has a noise floor lower than the AD can handle in terms of resolution, then the lower bit resolution will raise that noise floor as it is the highest common denominator. A higher resolution doesn't help to raise the upper limit, as that's 0dBFS. What the higher resolution offers is the ability to quantise levels lower than that of it's lower-resolution counterpart and consequently, have a reduced noise floor provided the analogue stage is up to the task as well.
So, if the OP has a 44.1/16 file, he obviously won't benefit from upconverting it to a 48/24 file (for example) as there is nothing in the source that will take advantage of the higher resolutions. Clearly, that won't raise the noise floor. I think we both agree on that.
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All that said, I've been doing a lot of reading about the filtering that is performed by DACs and although the finer points completely escape me in some of the material I've studied, I'm certain there are some smart people out there who believe there is a lot to be gained in the accuracy of playback (and lack of distortion) by upsampling before playback.
But you're still forgetting that it won't be any more accurate than the source material. Therefore, all you're going to do is chew up even more battery power for the processing required to deal with an upconverted format.
One argument is that a processor fast enough to perform DAC functions with recordings that were ADC'd at 96-kHz will be handling a 44.1-kHz stream twice as fast as a 44.1-kHz DAC would - if and only if that 44.1-kHz data were disguised as 96-kHz data.
Not at all, as the processor will simply work at a slower speed with lower sampling rates which will inherently consume less power. Better for your battery life. Otherwise, the processor will still only produce results that are as accurate as the source.
One guy put it like this (paraphrasing): "If you are translating a foreign language to English, would't it be great if the person you are interpreting spoke at half the speed you're comfortable with? You're translation would be far more accurate."
Therefore, both the foreigner and the interpreter are working at the same speed. In which case, that analogy proves that upconverted files are more strenuous since the foreigner is talking faster but provided the interpreter can keep up (and in turn consume more energy - Powerade?) the translation remains the same because the same words are still being spoken. Right?
What do think about reducing the file size of 96/24 recordings (obtained from Linn or HDtracks) by 33% using dbPoweramp to reduce the bit depth from 24 to 16? As I said earlier, I don't believe the loss of dynamic range can be detected audibly, but I'm concerned about over-processing the file. Do you have any insights to offer on this?
I think you answered your own question there. If you don't believe there is a noticeable difference going down to 16-bit, then you're not over-processing the file. Over-processing the file (ie. messing with the quality) suggests that you can perceive the difference in quality. If you can't hear the difference, then the conversion is transparent and you're a happy man.
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Thank you Artstar and RJP for explaining your convictions.
My search for truth is settled on this subject - nothing can be gained by upsampling.
I did my best to present a minority argument that I've read here and there on mutliple forums, but that school of thought just doesn't make sense. I'll stand with the majority.
And I like your position regarding my question about reducing the bit depth 24 to 16. As space is not an issue (yet), I think I will just allow my 96/24 files to stay as they are (for now).
Thanks again!
Mike
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My $0.02 is that sampling rates beyond 48 kHz aren't worth the extra space needed, unless you are: a) actually recording at the higher sampling rate, b) have equipment that accurately captures, passes, and plays ultrasonic audio, and c) are recording for scientific or engineering reasons that require ultrasonic resolution, or for an audience that can actually hear ultrasonic frequencies (such as dogs or bats).
two more for ya:
D) planning to slow the recording down several octaves in order to shift hypersonic information down to audible frequency range
E) desiring future-compatibility with systems like the Plangent Process wherein 192kHz-sampled analog tapes can be time-aligned to the tape head bias frequency. http://www.plangentprocesses.com/
I agree that upsampling is not advised, but I would strongly caution against bit reduction from 24 to 16. Perhaps your playback gear is not allowing you to hear the difference. It's rather dramatic, actually. Also, as an M10 owner, I've noticed that it's built-in D>A converters are not very good-sounding compared to my desktop computer's built-in audio. Very handy for portable use, of course, but doesn't sound like top-notch audiophile gear. YMMV of course.
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YMMV of course.
I guess so!
I love the way my PCM-M10 sounds with Line Out to a Meier Audio Corda Stepdance and I don't find it's headphone out to be shabby, either, but a far cry from the Stepdance. Perhaps there's something wrong with my ears.
:D
Mike
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Oh, I never noticed the Sony's line out being sub-par until I did an A/B. Let me clarify - it's fine, it's just not as good as my other option. It's easy to be happy with gear if you don't a/b, I do that all the time. I still play the sony in the car, and at other people's houses after shows to blow their minds!! 8)
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Got my M10 and just taped its first show, but now have a problem: when connecting to my PC via USB, it cycles between connected and disconnected rapidly, never staying connected long enough to even see the directory structure, much less transfer a file. Haven't had the problem with this PC and a PCM-D50.
Anyone seen this behavior or did I just get a dud unit?
EDIT: Problem solved. I was using the D50's USB cable, when I switched to the one provided with the M10 it worked.
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Just swapped batteries on both of mine last night at a show. Clocks did not reset.
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Got mine about a week ago and I love it. Haven't taped any shows but made some recordings around the house and it's easier to use than my old DR07.
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I finally caved in and bought a PCM-M10. It should be here any day. In the mean time, I've been reading these forums. Thanks all for the wealth of info being shared here. I am surprised about the clock issue. I hope mine does not exhibit that problem.
In my search for info, I discovered some photos on an M10 taken apart. Here's a link:
http://4ltrs.in/esem/?pcmm10
Darryl
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Thanks for that link to a great review!
I want to buy a dog whistle and try recording it.
Mike
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Thanks for that link to a great review!
I want to buy a dog whistle and try recording it.
Mike
Interesting. Can your dog let us know how well it records the whistle?
.
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Hey John,
That's a good one! No, I'm pretty sure my dog is not a registered member of this forum, so he won't be able to comment. ;D
Actually, I wrote that in response to the reviewer at the link I provided having said that the PCM-M10 allows you to bring the ultrasonic frequenicies down so that we can hear whatever's happening up there. :)
I suppose a lot of people would say, "been there, done that," but I'm a noob at recording stuff, so it's appealing to me.
Mike
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Mike,
I'll settle for him telling you . . . I'm actually more interested if it's possible to play it back at the same frequency--tweeters probably roll off too soon. Dunno.
I'm aware of the following site (re: animal/insect sounds . . .), which helped me choose the M10.
http://www.avisoft.com/
Have fun, enjoy!
John
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So i am definitely going to get myself one of these. Anyone know if there are still any sales for 200 or less I haven't been able to find any?
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this was cheapest i could find when i was looking for mine last week..
http://www.adorama.com/SOPCMM10BK.html
but then i went to sony store here in new zealand and guy gave it one for $400NZ instead of $500NZ so save the hassle for me anyway of shipping overseas + import tax and he chucked in some extras for me (headphones, batteries, etc)
Am so please i upgraded from an iriver-h320, been playing around with the sony and its so simple, cant wait to record with it.
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$229 for mine at Sweetwater. No case or dead cat. But hey! No tax and free shipping. And there was candy in the box too... some Smarties and Laffy Taffy. $200 would have been nice, but oh well...
So far I am loving it. Nice display. I like how you can add tracks either while recording or playing back. And I like the five second buffer. No clock problem at the moment. Firmware is still v1.00. I am using a Kingston 4GB class 4 microSD card.
Mine is a matt dark gray/almost black color. Not quite black. I thought I read that the standard black was really a glossy gray.
Darryl
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Always check for coupons online for whatever retailer you decide to go with. A quick google search can sometimes save you 10% or more.
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So i am definitely going to get myself one of these. Anyone know if there are still any sales for 200 or less I haven't been able to find any?
Ask zzounds.com - they offered 194.99, but that was with their price beating program; B&H had it for 199.99 at the time, I sent them that price and they offered 5 less. Another poster reported the 194.99 at zzounds - maybe write them and ask for that price.
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So i am definitely going to get myself one of these. Anyone know if there are still any sales for 200 or less I haven't been able to find any?
$202 + shipping at Full Compass.
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So i am definitely going to get myself one of these. Anyone know if there are still any sales for 200 or less I haven't been able to find any?
Ask zzounds.com - they offered 194.99, but that was with their price beating program; B&H had it for 199.99 at the time, I sent them that price and they offered 5 less. Another poster reported the 194.99 at zzounds - maybe write them and ask for that price.
I did that with Musicians Friend and had them match an out of stock price at J&$. I ended up getting it $194.something shipped.
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Found it at Amazon for $199. Requested a "seen a better price" quote from Music123. I got mine for $187.50 with free shipping from Music123.
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Bought mine in 2/2010 and it has the clock issue. If it's a matter of just resetting the clock once in a while, it isn't worth the $17 charge to me. Seems to work fine other than that.
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Read all the posts about the clock issue. My question is the following:
1. I usually turn unit on when I'm at my seat, I know many do this ahead of time, but it's my routine.
How does setting the clock or not setting it inhibit starting a recording? Will it not let you record until you set it?
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I usually turn unit on when I'm at my seat, I know many do this ahead of time, but it's my routine.
Dunno about your question (curious too though), but maybe it's time for a new routine. 8) I would just turn it on, leave it on record pause, and then hit record when you're ready to start recording.
I tested my M10 last week and it lasted 16 hours with 24/44.1 recording and the LCD on continuously before I finally turned it off (it was still going). I'll do a full battery test later, but I'm not surprised to hear 20+ hours from other M10 users. Even after 16 hours it did not warm up at all so all the more reason to keep it on IMO from before you get to the venue (and I mean like before you enter the venue, not from the night before).
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How does setting the clock or not setting it inhibit starting a recording? Will it not let you record until you set it?
You can not record until you set it. In a situation where you are trying not to draw attention to what you are doing, this is less than ideal. I agree that you should turn it on before you get to your seat in this situation. I've had the same batteries for 10 months and they are still showing 3/4 full. Granted I've only used it a handfull of times, but battery life is definitely not an issue.
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Hey all,
This thread is massive!
I know that the Line In on the M10 is much better than the Mic In after reading this post. What if I need to use TWO mics. I want to do some interviewing and while I know the Line In sounds great, what happens when I include two mics?
Any Suggestions?
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Hey all,
This thread is massive!
I know that the Line In on the M10 is much better than the Mic In after reading this post. What if I need to use TWO mics. I want to do some interviewing and while I know the Line In sounds great, what happens when I include two mics?
Any Suggestions?
Both line in and mic in are stereo. Place 1 mic with the interviewer and 1 with the interviewee and you'll get one person on the left channel and one on the right.
You could always mix the two channels in post if you want the final recording in "stereo" even though it would really be 2 channel mono.
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Hey thanks Fatah Ruark!
That was a quick reply!
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Luckily for you, I am a vampire.
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what is the screen size on this as I would like to get an invisible shield for it
Thanks
The Lowepro Ridge 30 is a little bigger than the 20, which leaves room at the side for the remote plug and at the top for mic/line in. The slot in the front flap--which I don't think the Tamrac case has--is perfect for the PCM-M10 remote. That's mostly what you're going to be using to control the recorder anyway. It's easy to let it hang open a little and see the green/red lights near the top if you're worried about levels, and you can reach in and turn the knob.
http://www.amazon.com/Lowepro-Ridge-Camera-Case-Black/dp/B000BH1GFK/ref=pd_cp_p_1
As for the zipper, put a screen protector on the PCM-M10 even if you do use a different case. Why take chances?
Here it is, but it's kinda pricey for what it is. If anyone knows of a cheaper way, let me know! http://www.amazon.com/Tamrac-5689-Compact-Digital-Black/dp/B001E3XLZS/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1292784653&sr=8-17
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30 hours of battery life is common. I had this recorder with me in really humid and hot conditions (Malawi 2010, February) and recorded 30 hours of spoken word/reportage during 30 days (@ highest possible MP3 rate) with one set of alkalines on one memory card.
Just two things to remember:
1. 44khz mp3 won't sync with 48khz video in most cases (if video sync is of any concern).
2. and the internal microphones need to be wind protected or an external mic is used.
Add a Juicedlink microphone preamp (if 48v or XLR interface is needed) and you are golden - next step up will be the NAGRA LB.
I still miss the feel of the D50 however < the best compact recorder someone could ever have.
T
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$199 in your cart on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PCMM10-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B002R56C4O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295121858&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PCMM10-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B002R56C4O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295121858&sr=8-1)
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Yep. Picked one up, they just got a new batch as this was out of stock for a few weeks.
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Just got mine in from J&R, $199 as well with shipping & taxes. Next up: tax refund and some new fancy mikes and a preamp. I think I'm gonna go with the dpa 4061's again. I'll grab a sd card tomorrow, this threads are massive, so I'm sure I'm asking a redundant question: what are the best/compatible micro sd cards with this unit? Otherwise, I plan on loading it up with mp3's to get a feel for the unit.
Oh: where can I get a sleek case and screen protector?
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Case I got
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/424455-REG/Lowepro_LP34721_0AM_Ridge_30_Case_Black.html
Screen protector I picked up an invisible shield for a digital camera screen
SD card I like the kingstons
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134807
Just got mine in from J&R, $199 as well with shipping & taxes. Next up: tax refund and some new fancy mikes and a preamp. I think I'm gonna go with the dpa 4061's again. I'll grab a sd card tomorrow, this threads are massive, so I'm sure I'm asking a redundant question: what are the best/compatible micro sd cards with this unit? Otherwise, I plan on loading it up with mp3's to get a feel for the unit.
Oh: where can I get a sleek case and screen protector?
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Thanks! I was looking for a slimmer case, something like what the iriver's have where the buttons are still accessible. I'll check out the Kingston cards, probably going to go for a 8 or 16GB card.
Case I got
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/424455-REG/Lowepro_LP34721_0AM_Ridge_30_Case_Black.html
Screen protector I picked up an invisible shield for a digital camera screen
SD card I like the kingstons
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134807
Just got mine in from J&R, $199 as well with shipping & taxes. Next up: tax refund and some new fancy mikes and a preamp. I think I'm gonna go with the dpa 4061's again. I'll grab a sd card tomorrow, this threads are massive, so I'm sure I'm asking a redundant question: what are the best/compatible micro sd cards with this unit? Otherwise, I plan on loading it up with mp3's to get a feel for the unit.
Oh: where can I get a sleek case and screen protector?
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that sd card at newegg is not a micro sd
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that sd card at newegg is not a micro sd
Yeah, that's good observation. The SD card is almost the size of the recorder. ;)
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Yeah, I picked up two transcend 8gb class 6 micro sd cards for $16 a pop, free shipping.
Next up: new mikes and a preamp to boot. Most likely a pair of dpa's.
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Does the m10 work w/ 32GB Cards ??? I have been thinking of getting one to run a super low-pro setup w/ my MBHO>TFORMER LB, and after doing some research this looks like the way to go. Im still getting it confused w/ the d50 tho. This JUST has analog INS on an 1/8" Stereo jack, correct ??? If so, I take it the ADC is pretty solid ??? I dont have time to search thru 60 pages of pcm-m10 threads so if someone could give me the LOW DOWN I'd really appreciate it 8)
TIA,
Bean
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the m10 is analog 1/8 in ONLY
the d50 has optical in but the lb is analog only too
the m10 i know works with 16gb cards and also has 4gb built in
the battery life is crazzzzzzy and runs on 2 aa
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Hi Bean!
Does the m10 work w/ 32GB Cards ???
snip
TIA,
Bean
Yes, the PCM-M10 works fine with this 32mb card, I'm currently using:
Transcend 32 GB micro SDHC Class 2 Flash Memory Card with SD Adapter TS32GUSDHC2
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042AJYOC
The Class 2 cards are really S-L-O-W at transferring files to your PC, compared to the Class 6 cards, but half the price for any given size.
I have also tested this Class 6 card in the PCM-M10 (borrowed from my digital camera, temporarily). It works fine, too:
Transcend - Flash memory card ( microSDHC to SD adapter included ) - 16 GB - Class 6 - microSDHC
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PLIG5Y
Enjoy!
Mike
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Here's an e-mail I received from Sony Customer Care, yesterday, in response to some questions I had asked about the PCM-M10. Dear Mr. Michael Davis,
Greetings!
We do apologize for the delay in our reply as we need to check with our counterpart.
Further, can you please confirm what type of DA converter is used inside the PCM-M10? Is it a mutlibit, R2R ladder DAC (like PCM1704) or delta-sigma design (like CS4382)?
--> PCM-M10 is using "delta-sigma design" DA converter.
Can the Line Out from the DAC deliver 96-kHz 24-bit playback to an external amplifier or is plyaback limited to 48-kHz 24-bit?
--> PCM-M10 does not convert 96kHz/24bit file.
So, if you recorded with 96kHz/24bit, then Line Out will be 96kHz/24bit.
Thank you for the compliments. Comments were passed to engineers and designers.
Thank you and we will wait for your reply.
I wanted to know, with certainty, that the PCM-M10's DAC actually plays 96/24 files at 96/24. I didn't doubt that the M10 can record at 96/24.
Mike
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Hi Bean!
Does the m10 work w/ 32GB Cards ???
snip
TIA,
Bean
Yes, the PCM-M10 works fine with this 32mb card, I'm currently using:
Transcend 32 GB micro SDHC Class 2 Flash Memory Card with SD Adapter TS32GUSDHC2
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042AJYOC
The Class 2 cards are really S-L-O-W at transferring files to your PC, compared to the Class 6 cards, but half the price for any given size.
I have also tested this Class 6 card in the PCM-M10 (borrowed from my digital camera, temporarily). It works fine, too:
Transcend - Flash memory card ( microSDHC to SD adapter included ) - 16 GB - Class 6 - microSDHC
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PLIG5Y
Enjoy!
Mike
Thanks man!
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finally got to make my first recording with the M10.....so easy to use...so happy to changed from the iriver h320...
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My record button is broken, i'm not really sure why. I can't press down on it anymore, is there anything I can do to get that fixed? Would I have to send it in?
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You could use the remote to initiate record mode.Good luck!
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FYI: NewEgg has a 8GB micro SD card for $9 shipped (after rebate). Might not be a bad idea to pick up a backup/extra card.
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-SlickDeals&cm_mmc=AFC-SlickDeals-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&Item=N82E16820220523
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After 5 weeks with the batteries out, I'm now getting the "clock set" error >:(
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^^^ If you hit "STOP" twice when the "Set Clock" screen comes up, you will go straight to record mode (the first press kills the set clock message and brings up the screen where you can set the time; the second kills that screen and takes you to the one you'd normally see after start-up). The files will be numbered Z0000001.wav, Z0000002.wav, etc. When you turn the recorder off, and then back on, the next file will be Z0000003.wav (in other words, it will not over-write existing files).
This comes in handy if you don't have time to set the clock, or don't feel like it, and takes almost no time...
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I've just had the clock set error after a period of some weeks non-use, though the rechargeable batteries seemed ok. No further occurrences in the last few days.
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if you hit the T-Mark while recording does it continue to record or do i have to hit record again ? from what i understand it pauses when you hit it in playback.
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Track mark does not interrupt recording. It does stop playback.
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Thank You
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I've just had the clock set error after a period of some weeks non-use, though the rechargeable batteries seemed ok. No further occurrences in the last few days.
You LEAVE your batteries IN your M10 when its just shelf taping ??? That's NOT GOOD to do. Wait til you rust the contacts :P
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My thoughts on the M10 include having the clock issue, find the built in omnis barely acceptable for anything other than capturing a riff on the fly in a live music setting when I am playing the music and just reach for the deck and hit record twice. Battery life is great using rechargeable duracell batteries and a good charger that discharges as well. I record mostly small club jazz, gypsy jazz, bluegrass and acoustic music and always need a pre for 30-40 db of gain. I use both the M10 and the R09hr and mix and match littlebox pre and 9100 (and now 9200) and can't really tell which deck I used one week after taping a show. I think the M10 feels better to hold and looks more rugged to me but the R09hr is easier to use in the dark without looking at the deck for me. Also easy to disable needless "stuff" with gaffer's tape on both decks so you don't need to worry about hitting things by accident.
Would be interested to know configs using M10 mic in with PIP on or off with CA-14's, 11's or CAFs for shows not loud enough to worry about high spl or needing to power those mics more than the deck does which I think is 3V ? Anyone using M10 like this within 15 feet of acoustic instrument sound sources ? The A/D converter is HQ in the M10 by reading other posts and if if enough gain could be had from the deck it seems one could possible use this deck mic in with relatively sensistive mics and be ok, yes? I am guessing unity not possible though since gain would have to be higher than 4/5. Any configs with the usual suspects making the M10 a stand alone would be appreciated or even links to already posted topics on this that I can't seem to find.
Thanks as always happy tapers!
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Just a quick question.
Might have a chance of a sbd feed tomorrow night and have never used the M10 for this before - I seem to have got the idea that the M10 can take a hot board output without attenuation - should I pack an attenuator anyway or am I really good to go with just an XLR to minijack cable?
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Bring the attenuator id say, you never know how hot the board feed will be. We got a feed to the m10 from a club we dont frequent and had the line level on the m10 set to 1. We should of had an attenuator.
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Thanks for that.
Didn't need one in the end but it was a very quiet gig. Very pleased with the results.
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You LEAVE your batteries IN your M10 when its just shelf taping ??? That's NOT GOOD to do. Wait til you rust the contacts :P
My second most important reason why I only ever use lithium AA batteries.
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Today (after months owning one) the M10 asked to set the clock for the first time ever.
I had used it only 24 hours before and then removed the rechargable batteries overnight.
i tried to read through this helpful thread but honestely posts by people letting us know when their "unit" will be shipped got me lost.
Whats the common take on this? press stop twice? or is there another solution?
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Today (after months owning one) the M10 asked to set the clock for the first time ever.
I had used it only 24 hours before and then removed the rechargable batteries overnight.
i tried to read through this helpful thread but honestely posts by people letting us know when their "unit" will be shipped got me lost.
Whats the common take on this? press stop twice? or is there another solution?
you can reset it or press stop twice
pressing stop twice will get rid of the reset menu but the files will not have date/time info connected to them so if you are not good at keeping track it might cause you a headache down the road
one person has sent theirs back in for a "new" one
i personally am not bothered by the clock issue enough to send mine in for a refurbished one or whatever it is they are doing about it
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I have not had a clock issue with mine for the 5 months I've had it and keep batteries in it
and I just bought another M10 as a backup ;)
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so just wondering about folks that had/ have the "clock issue"
as I was reading the operating manual and on page 14
under when to replace batteries then under Tips
there is a bullet
• When replacing the batteries, the clock continues moving for about 3 minutes after you remove the batteries.
which would make sense
so if you have 4 rechargeable AA's then 2 are at the ready to swap out in a expedient manner (under 3 minutes)
does the clock still reset?
thanx
--ian
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so just wondering about folks that had/ have the "clock issue"
as I was reading the operating manual and on page 14
under when to replace batteries then under Tips
there is a bullet
• When replacing the batteries, the clock continues moving for about 3 minutes after you remove the batteries.
which would make sense
so if you have 4 rechargeable AA's then 2 are at the ready to swap out in a expedient manner (under 3 minutes)
does the clock still reset?
thanx
--ian
Seems like if its under 3 mins, then the clock WILL NOT reset. I am getting an M10 w/ in the next couple months, and probably sell the R09/16gb SDHC Card to afford it
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I am new and have a microphone question. I just got the PCM-M10 and need to use it for speech (not music) with an external professional microphone. I need to be able to use this recorder with extension cables to a podium. The mic is on the podium and I sit elsewhere using the recorder to make marks while people speak at the podium. I have the extension cables and a Shure VP-64 with a standard XLR to mini plug that worked fine on my minidisc recorder. But now there is a hum and very low level when I use this with the PCM-M10.
I would rather not spend the money to get the expensive mic recommended in the manual the ECM-MS957 (I am not sure it can even be used with extension cables). But I would not mind buying a new mic that works with cables if they're not too expensive.
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First, I wouldn't recommend that mic anyway. ( MS957)
Secondly, have you checked the cable and made sure it was secure in both ends? Have you tried a different cable? Have you tried the mic in a different recorder? Is the hum always present? Since this is an omni mic, perhaps its picking up room noise. Since the VP64 is a dynamic mic, it doesn't need a pre-amp but if you have one, I would suggest testing it to see what it sounds like.
One downside of the M10 is the fact that it can't record mono so with the mno mic I have, I just use a stereo cable to have the audio on both channels.
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Rastasean--Yes, I would like to try a different cable. Not sure what to get though. Someone told me I might need an adaptor or low to high impedance transformer...?.
And to answr your question, yes, the set-up I have works fine with the mini disc recorder, no hum.
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I have used Sennheiser MD211 (omni) and AKG D200 (cardioid) dynamic mikes with my M10 without problems. I did not have to raise the recording volume so far that I got hum. There was room sound, depending on recording distance. Both mikes I used are low impedance professional mikes. I'm not familiar with your mike. Going Hi-Impedance mike into Low Impedance preamp causes loss of level, (and change in frequency response) if no matching transformer or circuit is used.
I use a Hosa XVM-105F, which is a short adapter cable, Female XLR to mini TRS. XLR Pin 2 is hot, and goes to tip and ring, Pins 1 and 3 are Ground, and go to Sleeve on the mini plug. This results in identical signals to each of L and R channels of the M10, which sums to mono. The M10 can not record true mono, IIRC. If for some reason your adapter cable does not provide signal to both channels of the Sony, and fails to ground one channel, you will get hum.
I also use a Hosa mini TRS stereo to dual XLR adapter cable to run from my external stereo preamp to the trs line input of the M10 for stereo field recording with phantom powered condensor mikes. It works fine, with no hum.
Dynamic mikes will have a worse S/N ratio than would phantom powered or self-battery powered condensor mikes, which put out more voltage by around 15 dB, but it shouldn't necessarily cause hum. I believe external mikes are unbalanced when run into the mike input of the Sony, which might increase susceptibility to environmental electrical noise, such as noise from dimmer switches, fluorescent ballast, halogen lectern lamp power supply, etc.
Have you checked the sensitivity setting on the M10? At least some mini disc recorders have a bit better S/N than the M10, but I don't think the difference should be enough to cause noticeable hum.
good luck with your problem. Simplest solution I can think of is a long XLR-XLR 3 wire cable run from lectern into an appopriate Hosa XLR to mini TRS cable/adapter, unless you have an impedance matching issue inherent in your mike.
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tgos--It would be great if if using the cable run with the hosa XVM-105F would solve my problem! Here are the specs on my mic:
http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/us_pro_vp64_en_ug.pdf
Do you think the HOSA would do it?
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I think it should work.
I checked the wiring diagram for my D200E AKG, and like your Shure, it has pin 2 and 3 as hot and return, with pin 1 to ground, so the same adapters that work for me should work for you.... However, the AKG diagram does not illustrate pin 3 and case connected, so that may remain an issue.
It looks like the Shure is set up to ground the XLR case and pin 3 together. I don't know if that is appropriate for your situation. You could try looking inside your current cable at the end that goes into the mike, and see if it the XLR is set up that way in the cable as well. If you decide to try another cable you could experiment on your current one, and try desoldering the connection between the XLR case tab (the little bar in the diagram) and pin 3. A bunch of old Neumann mikes were also set up that way on purpose, since it helps prevent environmental noise pickup on such mikes (but not all mikes).
If you do ground case and pin 3, i think it has to be that way at both ends, and I don't think the Sony is set up that way. You can do the experiment and find out, if you are able to put your current cable back the way it used to be.
Here's another issue that might be relevant. On my Sharp minidisc recorders, it is possible to engage a true MONO recording function, which i used to do when using one mike going in via TRS. This can not be done on the Sony M10. I don't know if your current adapter cable made use of the minidisc electronic summing to mono, and is failing to ground one side of the M10....I have my suspicions.
good luck
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Hello folks -
This is my first post and I'm hoping someone will be willing to take the time to help a Newbie. I am a still photographer, and bought a PCM-M10 to record interviews and background material to support slideshows (i.e. YouTube, etc.). I leave Friday to Nepal - China for a month where I'll document some non-profit work. I will try my hand at recording conversations with people I photo-document. I'm thinking that this PCM-M10 is a decent choice for size, battery life and that the omni mics will do well at recording interviews.
Here's my question: What is a recommended resolution for capturing tracks? LPCM 44kHz/16bit? or higher bit or sampling? I suspect that like photography, I'd want to capture at a high resolution & depth to enable low-loss editing later, even if the final product is MP3. I have a portable hard drive system for downloading from the microSD. Another thing I've been wondering if there is anything to do to quicken boot-up time. With the 16GB microSD installed it takes 25 seconds to boot, and without a card the boot time is 6 seconds. The 25 seconds can seem like forever if there's action I'm missing.
Any basic tips that I should know? I.e. rule of thumb for recording levels? I'm hoping that the internal mics will suffice, and I did buy a dead cat. It'd be great if I took time to practice, but I'm the kind who's always behind. Perhaps you know someone like that already, perhaps someone who spends too much time on forums....
Thank you! - Ralph (ralpheburns.com)
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record 24 bit 48 Khz and aim to have the levels reach -12 in manual mode, wave of course.
To shorten boot time, don't turn the unit off and let it go to sleep after 10 inactive minutes. When you're ready to record, hit the record button and there's virtually no delay. Please note that if you're using the 5 second pre-record feature, you will need to press record twice: one to wake up from sleep & two to start recording. I would make backups of the audio...keep it on the card, save it to your computer, save it to a flash drive, save it to the internet, I'm sure you already do this with your photographs.
just remember to update us when you get back.
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Hello folks -
This is my first post and I'm hoping someone will be willing to take the time to help a Newbie. I am a still photographer, and bought a PCM-M10 to record interviews and background material to support slideshows (i.e. YouTube, etc.). I leave Friday to Nepal - China for a month where I'll document some non-profit work. I will try my hand at recording conversations with people I photo-document. I'm thinking that this PCM-M10 is a decent choice for size, battery life and that the omni mics will do well at recording interviews.
Here's my question: What is a recommended resolution for capturing tracks? LPCM 44kHz/16bit? or higher bit or sampling? I suspect that like photography, I'd want to capture at a high resolution & depth to enable low-loss editing later, even if the final product is MP3. I have a portable hard drive system for downloading from the microSD. Another thing I've been wondering if there is anything to do to quicken boot-up time. With the 16GB microSD installed it takes 25 seconds to boot, and without a card the boot time is 6 seconds. The 25 seconds can seem like forever if there's action I'm missing.
Any basic tips that I should know? I.e. rule of thumb for recording levels? I'm hoping that the internal mics will suffice, and I did buy a dead cat. It'd be great if I took time to practice, but I'm the kind who's always behind. Perhaps you know someone like that already, perhaps someone who spends too much time on forums....
Thank you! - Ralph (ralpheburns.com)
Best of luck. Update us from China while youre there ;)
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tgos--It would be great if if using the cable run with the hosa XVM-105F would solve my problem! Here are the specs on my mic:
http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/us_pro_vp64_en_ug.pdf
Do you think the HOSA would do it?
Part of your problem may also be that those Shure mics are really low sensitivity (0.28 mV/Pa). By contrast, the MD211 mentioned by tgos3 has a sensitivity of 1.6 mV/Pa. Sony says in the M10 manual that the mic-in minimum input level is 0.9mV. That seems like a plausible explanation for the trouble you are having getting adequate levels...
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record 24 bit 48 Khz and aim to have the levels reach -12 in manual mode, wave of course.
To shorten boot time, don't turn the unit off and let it go to sleep after 10 inactive minutes. When you're ready to record, hit the record button and there's virtually no delay. Please note that if you're using the 5 second pre-record feature, you will need to press record twice: one to wake up from sleep & two to start recording. I would make backups of the audio...keep it on the card, save it to your computer, save it to a flash drive, save it to the internet, I'm sure you already do this with your photographs.
just remember to update us when you get back.
Thanks! So the sleep mode doesn't appreciably drain the battery? Would you leave it on all day long that way? If so I'd compare it to my big DSLR cameras, which I never turn off as they are so very power efficient.
Set me straight on levels: so do I keep the gain low enough that no peaks exceed -12? Or how about the majority of peaks at -12 with occasional peaks at -6? I'm thinking that it's just sinful to saturate but more signal to the same noise is good. Or is there poor accuracy whenever exceeding -12? I did a quick casual check and only ascertained that low gain sounded much more natural, leaving high gain a last-ditch compromise.
I'm also wondering how to hold it for interviews. I could stick it on a camera tripod, but it's much easier and less obtrusive if I just hand-held. I'm also wondering if I just prop it up on a table ideally with some soft article of clothing. Yessir, I'm unprepared but c'est la vie and I'll learn! Later I'll need to do some editing... I have a old copy of Goldwave (PC) .. another photographer recommended Audacity.
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I don't think letting it sleep will drain the battery too much but do take extra batteries with you.
Saturation with digital doesn't happen very often so having it peak at -12 to -6 should be fine since you can always drop it down in post.
Whatever way you choose to use it for an interview, it would be best if it could be quiet since the mics are omni directional and pickup sound all around the recorder; it is also advisable to not move the recorder in your hand or on the table but rather hold it still since noises on the recorder will be picked up.
If you have a minitripod, like a small table top bogen, I would recommend using that to have it on the table.
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Traded in the D50 for an M10!! 8) I need to get out this weekend for the maiden voyage.
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Traded in the D50 for an M10!! 8) I need to get out this weekend for the maiden voyage.
Nice going & good luck.
What is the main reason you're selling the D50?
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I keep if for the optical in/out and I'm running analog out of an MP2
Traded in the D50 for an M10!! 8) I need to get out this weekend for the maiden voyage.
Nice going & good luck.
What is the main reason you're selling the D50?
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I keep if for the optical in/out and I'm running analog out of an MP2
Traded in the D50 for an M10!! 8) I need to get out this weekend for the maiden voyage.
Nice going & good luck.
What is the main reason you're selling the D50?
Smart move :)
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O.k....My M10 has just arrived from the U.S, looking good except one small question.
The AC Power adapter is a U.S two prong unit
Input : AC120V / ca120V
60Hz/cc3V 5W
Output : DC3V/cc3V 1A
I also own a Sony Md Nh700 and the AC power adapter has the same fitting plug (yellow) and fits the M10, the info on the plug is as follows
Input : AC100-240V ~
50/60Hz 5W
Output : DC3V 1A
Both adapters came with the original Sony unit Here's my question.......
Can I use my MD adapter with my M10, I apologies if this is an obvious question but before I plug my beautiful new unit into the mains I want to be sure I'm not gonna fry it!!!
Thanks in advance
David.
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It *should* work, since theyre both 5W/1 amp. Anyone else agree?
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Update--I ordered the Hosa XVM-105F cable from Sweetwater and it fixed the problem! Thanks so much tgos3 !!!!
I think it should work.
I checked the wiring diagram for my D200E AKG, and like your Shure, it has pin 2 and 3 as hot and return, with pin 1 to ground, so the same adapters that work for me should work for you.... However, the AKG diagram does not illustrate pin 3 and case connected, so that may remain an issue.
It looks like the Shure is set up to ground the XLR case and pin 3 together. I don't know if that is appropriate for your situation. You could try looking inside your current cable at the end that goes into the mike, and see if it the XLR is set up that way in the cable as well. If you decide to try another cable you could experiment on your current one, and try desoldering the connection between the XLR case tab (the little bar in the diagram) and pin 3. A bunch of old Neumann mikes were also set up that way on purpose, since it helps prevent environmental noise pickup on such mikes (but not all mikes).
If you do ground case and pin 3, i think it has to be that way at both ends, and I don't think the Sony is set up that way. You can do the experiment and find out, if you are able to put your current cable back the way it used to be.
Here's another issue that might be relevant. On my Sharp minidisc recorders, it is possible to engage a true MONO recording function, which i used to do when using one mike going in via TRS. This can not be done on the Sony M10. I don't know if your current adapter cable made use of the minidisc electronic summing to mono, and is failing to ground one side of the M10....I have my suspicions.
good luck
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aaronji---I got the cable that tgos3 recommended and it works! You are right, tho, that the Shure mic sensitivity is low, so I boosted the record level on the m10 and everything is great now. Thanks for the input.
Part of your problem may also be that those Shure mics are really low sensitivity (0.28 mV/Pa). By contrast, the MD211 mentioned by tgos3 has a sensitivity of 1.6 mV/Pa. Sony says in the M10 manual that the mic-in minimum input level is 0.9mV. That seems like a plausible explanation for the trouble you are having getting adequate levels...
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O.k....My M10 has just arrived from the U.S, looking good except one small question.
The AC Power adapter is a U.S two prong unit
Input : AC120V / ca120V
60Hz/cc3V 5W
Output : DC3V/cc3V 1A
I also own a Sony Md Nh700 and the AC power adapter has the same fitting plug (yellow) and fits the M10, the info on the plug is as follows
Input : AC100-240V ~
50/60Hz 5W
Output : DC3V 1A
Both adapters came with the original Sony unit Here's my question.......
Can I use my MD adapter with my M10, I apologies if this is an obvious question but before I plug my beautiful new unit into the mains I want to be sure I'm not gonna fry it!!!
Thanks in advance
David.
Can anyone clarify this for me?
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aaronji---I got the cable that tgos3 recommended and it works! You are right, tho, that the Shure mic sensitivity is low, so I boosted the record level on the m10 and everything is great now. Thanks for the input.
My pleasure, of course. Glad to hear it's all working now!
Can I use my MD adapter with my M10, I apologies if this is an obvious question but before I plug my beautiful new unit into the mains I want to be sure I'm not gonna fry it!!!
You could also get a converter for the US plug. They're pretty cheap...Another option would be to just use batteries. The battery life is truly phenomenal, so you won't have to charge too often. As for the MD adapter, it will probably work, but only one way to know for sure!
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Seconded to using the batteries. They go, and go, and go.
The output of the adapter is what matters. The input is different because your mains are different.
If you look closely at the adapter you'll also see a diagram that looks something like a C with a dot, indicating the polarity of the tip and ring of the plug. As long as they are the same on your two adapters, and it's putting out the same DC current, you're fine. And they should be, since both the MD and the PCM-M10 run on the same two AA batteries.
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i just got my m10 and have been using it at a friends barn on jam nights. I record from the balcony about 30' back dead center, using the built in mics. the sound is really good. the only issue i have is any conversation going on in the balcony come through way to loud. The unit is placed in front of everyone on the handrail mic sensitivity on low. I am thinking this is because of the built in mics are omni's. I am waiting on a pair of sp c-4 coming in the mail. If i use the sp c-4 would this lower the background conversation? Would i need a preamp in this situation or just a battery box? i am thinking battery box since it is very loud. Another thing i am worried about is can being in a smoky room build up residue on your mics and how to clean it?
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Personally I would say get a pre-amp so when you're in quiet situations you can provide gain to the m10 and not have to worrying about turning the gain up a lot on the recorder. I'm certain smoke can build up on the mics since it builds up on my clothes in a matter of a few hours but I'll have to wait and see how people recommend cleaning the mics. Maybe compressed air or something. As far as the recorder, I would keep it in a bag so it doesn't absorb as much smoke.
Many years ago I bought a radio from someone on ebay and as soon as I opened the packaged, I could tell the person smoked cigars in the same place as the radio. Not pleasant at all.
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Personally I would say get a pre-amp so when you're in quiet situations you can provide gain to the m10 and not have to worrying about turning the gain up a lot on the recorder. I'm certain smoke can build up on the mics since it builds up on my clothes in a matter of a few hours but I'll have to wait and see how people recommend cleaning the mics. Maybe compressed air or something. As far as the recorder, I would keep it in a bag so it doesn't absorb as much smoke.
Many years ago I bought a radio from someone on ebay and as soon as I opened the packaged, I could tell the person smoked cigars in the same place as the radio. Not pleasant at all.
I'm pretty sure that would not be the way to go about it!
Using a windscreen seems to at least help with keeping the smoke out...
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I'm pretty sure that would not be the way to go about it!
Using a windscreen seems to at least help with keeping the smoke out...
I was assuming the sp c-4 would already have windscreens. How would you go about cleaning windscreens? If I would used compressed air, I would use common sense and not spray it directly on the mic but around it.
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Its DEFINITELY because they're omnis ;) You will need a preamp that has 48v phantom power to properly power the C4's. But once you get the C4's and a preamp[Naiant Littlebox_$250.00-ish], your recordings will get night and day better ;)
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And I second that you should ALWAYS use windscreens, indoors or outdoors. And clean them by soaking them in warm soapy water and letting them air dry :)
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I was assuming the sp c-4 would already have windscreens. How would you go about cleaning windscreens? If I would used compressed air, I would use common sense and not spray it directly on the mic but around it.
Even then, I think you would be running the risk of blowing a particle into your mic. I have read that you can use a very soft, dry brush to clean the grills (gently, with the mic upside down so that any dislodged particles fall out and not in) but I would be hesitant to try it myself. There is actually a product specifically for this, Microphome, but no clue how well it works...
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The Mic senstivity switch on the back of the M10 with a Hi/Lo setting, is this for the internal mics?? TIA
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The Mic senstivity switch on the back of the M10 with a Hi/Lo setting, is this for the internal mics?? TIA
For the built-ins and for externals run mic-in...
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So for line in it doesn't have an effect??
The Mic senstivity switch on the back of the M10 with a Hi/Lo setting, is this for the internal mics?? TIA
For the built-ins and for externals run mic-in...
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So for line in it doesn't have an effect??
Nope...
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Thanks!! 8)
So for line in it doesn't have an effect??
Nope...
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Thats why I clear taped the 3 buttons on the back of my M10
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I have a problem with my M10...I taped a Jazz Ensemble a while ago...since the band played witout amps...I had to use the full gain on the M10 and the tiny box. The result was a noticeable hiss.
After testing the eqpuipment ..I discovered that the actual problem is the M10. It pruduces a constant hiss and once in a while a noticable buzz as well....sounds like a grounding problem...
Has anybody else had the same problem so far. I have to send it back to Sony or B&H for reapir.
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I have a problem with my M10...I taped a Jazz Ensemble a while ago...since the band played witout amps...I had to use the full gain on the M10 and the tiny box. The result was a noticeable hiss.
After testing the eqpuipment ..I discovered that the actual problem is the M10. It pruduces a constant hiss and once in a while a noticable buzz as well....sounds like a grounding problem...
Has anybody else had the same problem so far. I have to send it back to Sony or B&H for reapir.
Damn man, that's a huge bummer. I can't believe you had both things MAXED OUT and still didnt get enough gain. I have had to crank my LB up all the way and dont hear a hiss at all. In fact, its just as quiet as my 722, at least IMO!
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I have a problem with my M10...I taped a Jazz Ensemble a while ago...since the band played witout amps...I had to use the full gain on the M10 and the tiny box. The result was a noticeable hiss.
After testing the eqpuipment ..I discovered that the actual problem is the M10. It pruduces a constant hiss and once in a while a noticable buzz as well....sounds like a grounding problem...
Has anybody else had the same problem so far. I have to send it back to Sony or B&H for reapir.
what microphones are you using with the tinybox?
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I am using DPA 4061 and the CA 14 in line with tinybox and the M10....but I recorded a Blues show last week and tested both mics prior to the show with my CA Ugly and CA 9100 ---> Edirol R09-HR...no problem...a fine recording and no hiss DPA 4061 CA 9100 and the Edirol R09-HR. I will send the M10 back to B&H or Sony for repair since I bought it with the 3 Year warranty. Just was curious if other users have discovered a simular problem.
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O.k, I've now replaced my R09HR for this lovely looking Sony M10 and it certainly looks sexy.
I've set the clock and so far no issues although having purchased via the U.S I don't think I'll bother sending back for a cosmetic
issue, I'll just reset the clock prior to going to the gig...
Just crawled through 4 threads looking for more detailed settings for people recording LINE IN
I'll be using CA11/14's > CA Batt Box > Sony M10 and setting the recorder to 24/48 Rec mode
I will be recording shows in small venues (300) and fairly loud, not Mogwai or My Bloody Valentine loud
but certainly "Rock" loud.
Now, if I'm correct going line in means that all the Mic sens/limiter settings are overridden?
I also read that unity gain is anywhere between 4 and 6, so 5 seems reasonable.
Anything else for me to think about? If you're using your Sony with this sort of set up I'd be interested in
what settings you're using, like I say I've been through all the posts and unless I've missed them there's very little
in the way posts relating to this. Before anyone says about checking levels to get best results...Yes I understand
that in time I'll come to use what works best for me but at this point I'm looking for what works best for people
using this set up here...
Here's something that I've never considered but I see that others record this way
Recording via MIC IN and using the same
CA11/14's > CA Batt Box > Sony M10 and setting the recorder to 24/48 Rec mode
I saw one post that said to turn off the PIP on the recorder and set the MIC SENS to LOW
Can anyone using this method please tell me how they set up via MIC IN and.....
What are the relative benefits/restrictions to both methods, I'm obviously new to this unit and
am using it on Wednesday for the first time so it's important for me to get to grips with the pro/cons of
both these methods, like I say I've always used LINE IN on the Edirol.
Very lastly I picked up a pair of CA1's, I read somewhere that they can be powered without the Batt Box,
obviously I'd need to turn on the pip on the recorder but again does anyone have any thoughts on this method,
personally I don't like to trust this as I'd prefer my mics to be getting some juice via a 9v batt box or pre (CA9100)
Much appreciated
David.
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I am using DPA 4061 and the CA 14 in line with tinybox and the M10....but I recorded a Blues show last week and tested both mics prior to the show with my CA Ugly and CA 9100 ---> Edirol R09-HR...no problem...a fine recording and no hiss DPA 4061 CA 9100 and the Edirol R09-HR. I will send the M10 back to B&H or Sony for repair since I bought it with the 3 Year warranty. Just was curious if other users have discovered a simular problem.
Out of curiousity, did you try mics > Church pre > M10?
In line-in, the mic sensitivity won't work, but the limiter still will. As for mic-in, the M10 is pretty quiet, so you can get good results that way too. If it is really loud, line-in is better (as you might overload the microphone input). Moderately loud, you can go either way. Quiet, go for mic-in. Also, for me personally, I find 3 or 3.5 is a good place to start with the M10's gain...
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I recorded saturday w/ my M10 at 3 or 4db gain, adding the rest of the gain from my LittleBox
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Ive taped about 5-10m from stack at a loud rock concert using sony ecm-717 > m10 using mic in and PIP on, had it set at level 3 (could of easily gone to 4 or 5 but i play it safe) and had no problems.
This weekend im planning on trying out my CA-14s that i got recently straight into the mic in with PIP on and see how it goes.
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Track down some specs. If I remember correctly, ECM-717 have rather low sensitivity. Their frequency response is 100-15000 Hz, which means none of the bass that can distort.
The CA mics are going to have a different sensitivity, and they pick up a full frequency range. Test your method with a loud stereo, or an opening act, rather than risk getting nothing but distortion from a set you want to keep.
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I am using DPA 4061 and the CA 14 in line with tinybox and the M10....but I recorded a Blues show last week and tested both mics prior to the show with my CA Ugly and CA 9100 ---> Edirol R09-HR...no problem...a fine recording and no hiss DPA 4061 CA 9100 and the Edirol R09-HR. I will send the M10 back to B&H or Sony for repair since I bought it with the 3 Year warranty. Just was curious if other users have discovered a simular problem.
Out of curiousity, did you try mics > Church pre > M10?
In line-in, the mic sensitivity won't work, but the limiter still will. As for mic-in, the M10 is pretty quiet, so you can get good results that way too. If it is really loud, line-in is better (as you might overload the microphone input). Moderately loud, you can go either way. Quiet, go for mic-in. Also, for me personally, I find 3 or 3.5 is a good place to start with the M10's gain...
I recorded some shows with mic in PIP off and had good results..in cases where the source was not loud enogh. I didn't test the church pre M10 since you can hear the hiss with your headphones ...without connecting any equipment.
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Just picked one up at B&H. This is gonna be fun.
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I just recently grabbed one! You'll love it.
Just picked one up at B&H. This is gonna be fun.
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Track down some specs. If I remember correctly, ECM-717 have rather low sensitivity. Their frequency response is 100-15000 Hz, which means none of the bass that can distort.
The CA mics are going to have a different sensitivity, and they pick up a full frequency range. Test your method with a loud stereo, or an opening act, rather than risk getting nothing but distortion from a set you want to keep.
Just because the ECM-717 is spec'ed to 100 Hz doesn't mean it's not picking up anything below that frequency. I am pretty sure that you could still distort it at/below that level...
As for sensitivity, I think the Church mics are pretty low sensitivity too (CA-11s seem to be around 6 or 7 mV/Pa). If that estimate's in the ballpark, they are 3 or 4 dB more sensitive than the Sony mic...
I recorded some shows with mic in PIP off and had good results..in cases where the source was not loud enogh. I didn't test the church pre M10 since you can hear the hiss with your headphones ...without connecting any equipment.
How'd you get it to record line-in without connecting anything?
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Checking in. I have 2 M-10's and both have the clock issue. Just did some speed reading thru all four parts and it looks like Sony will just blow this one off. No surprise there. ::)
To recap the options:
1). Send it to LA and probably receive a refurb that may fail in the future. ::)
2). Pound on the stop or menu button to exit clock setup screen and proceed with no clock. :o
3). Set the clock every time you turn it on. :laugh:
4). Set the clock before the lights go down and hope it sticks. ???
5). Or my favorite, leave the M10 home and take the 722. :o
Yes, I tend to agree the clock issue is not that big a deal. The unit is pretty slick. But the clock issue should have been resolved by now.
So Bean, how's my use of smileys!
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I have a theory about the reason for the clock problem (which I have not experienced). My guess, and again this is entirely a guess, is that there is a separate battery that briefly holds the clock settings. If that battery discharges completely--or, I don't know, stays discharged for X length of time--it does not recharge. So the clock settings don't hold. Perhaps if someone wanted to get into the guts of their PCM-M10 they could find that battery and see if it's replaceable. Not an experiment I would be willing to make, though.
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I have a theory about the reason for the clock problem (which I have not experienced). My guess, and again this is entirely a guess, is that there is a separate battery that briefly holds the clock settings. If that battery discharges completely--or, I don't know, stays discharged for X length of time--it does not recharge. So the clock settings don't hold. Perhaps if someone wanted to get into the guts of their PCM-M10 they could find that battery and see if it's replaceable. Not an experiment I would be willing to make, though.
That is old, proven tech and quite trivial. It is often accomplished by a lithium coin cell that lasts for many years. In other devices, there is a mechanism that recharges a cell. Yet this problem happens to folks who haven't left their m10's dead without power.
The most disturbing aspect of the problem is Sony's "eh, whatever" non-fix, non-response.
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Checking in. I have 2 M-10's and both have the clock issue. Just did some speed reading thru all four parts and it looks like Sony will just blow this one off. No surprise there. ::)
To recap the options:
1). Send it to LA and probably receive a refurb that may fail in the future. ::)
2). Pound on the stop or menu button to exit clock setup screen and proceed with no clock. :o
3). Set the clock every time you turn it on. :laugh:
4). Set the clock before the lights go down and hope it sticks. ???
5). Or my favorite, leave the M10 home and take the 722. :o
Yes, I tend to agree the clock issue is not that big a deal. The unit is pretty slick. But the clock issue should have been resolved by now.
So Bean, how's my use of smileys!
You get an "A" in my book :)
And I've been one of the lucky ones that do not have that issue.
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Checking in. I have 2 M-10's and both have the clock issue. Just did some speed reading thru all four parts and it looks like Sony will just blow this one off. No surprise there. ::)
To recap the options:
1). Send it to LA and probably receive a refurb that may fail in the future. ::)
2). Pound on the stop or menu button to exit clock setup screen and proceed with no clock. :o
3). Set the clock every time you turn it on. :laugh:
4). Set the clock before the lights go down and hope it sticks. ???
5). Or my favorite, leave the M10 home and take the 722. :o
Yes, I tend to agree the clock issue is not that big a deal. The unit is pretty slick. But the clock issue should have been resolved by now.
So Bean, how's my use of smileys!
You get an "A" in my book :)
And I've been one of the lucky ones that do not have that issue.
yea what a pita! Two units purchased about about 6 mos. apart and I have to deal with this crap. Good job Sony. :clapping:
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I've owned 2 units and have not had the clock issue :D :) ::) ;) :P ;D :-X 8) >:D ??? ^-^
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^^^ ...so far... ;)
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same, 2 different units (serials numbers not even close, purchased about a year apart) and no issues... 1st one was purchased the week of release from SweetWater
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^ lucky guys. god i wish this was a user malfunction, but i guess not. i think i'll buy another just to see what happens. 8) i wonder what the resale value is on m10's with bad clocks. :laugh:
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^ lucky guys. god i wish this was a user malfunction, but i guess not. i think i'll buy another just to see what happens. 8) i wonder what the resale value is on m10's with bad clocks. :laugh:
ebay it and list "as is"
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I've owned 2 units and have not had the clock issue :D :) ::) ;) :P ;D :-X 8) >:D ??? ^-^
I think Bean haxored darby's account. :o
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I've owned 2 units and have not had the clock issue :D :) ::) ;) :P ;D :-X 8) >:D ??? ^-^
I think Bean haxored darby's account. :o
;D
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What is a better recorder overal the Zoom h4n or the Sony pcm m10?
I was wondering what would be a good mic for the sony?
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What is a better recorder overal the Zoom h4n or the Sony pcm m10?
:banging head:
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What is a better recorder overal the Zoom h4n or the Sony pcm m10?
:banging head:
I was told to post all my new m10 questions here even though the answers will be biased.
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What is a better recorder overal the Zoom h4n or the Sony pcm m10?
:banging head:
I was told to post all my new m10 questions here even though the answers will be biased.
:tool:
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zoom = trash IMO
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For small recorders in that price range the m10 is the closest thing to the holy grail. I would have killed for one 30 years ago or even
10 years ago.
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Hi all,
maybe I can offer an explanation why some people have the RTC problem and others have not. After leaving my M10 on the shelf for about two months without switching it on (batteries were still fully charged!), I had to set the clock.
So I wondered what is going on. I pulled out the schematic of the M10s big brother, the D50.
The power supply section is rather complicated with lots of MOSFET switches and regulators, even one for the RTC battery. Checking the component values, I guesstimate that it takes about 30 to 40 hours to recharge an empty RTC battery - the state of the battery is in when you are asked to set time and date. If fully charged, you can expect 2000-3000 hours of RTC operation.
It seems to me that the D50 (and probably the M10) switch off completely when battery powered - not even the RTC battery is recharged!
So it depends on your use profile whether you have the dreaded "set date and time" problem or not. Regular use (best every day) keeps the RTC battery charged. in the future, I will let it go into sleep mode, and not switch it off. Another solution is to plug in the power supply before storage and let the M10 run for two days to top off the RTC battery, this should be sufficient for two months.
BTW if someone could send me a schematic of the M10, I could replace my educated guess with fact.
Greetings,
Rainer
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The power supply section is rather complicated with lots of MOSFET switches and regulators, even one for the RTC battery. Checking the component values, I guesstimate that it takes about 30 to 40 hours to recharge an empty RTC battery - the state of the battery is in when you are asked to set time and date. If fully charged, you can expect 2000-3000 hours of RTC operation.
It seems to me that the D50 (and probably the M10) switch off completely when battery powered - not even the RTC battery is recharged!
So it depends on your use profile whether you have the dreaded "set date and time" problem or not. Regular use (best every day) keeps the RTC battery charged. in the future, I will let it go into sleep mode, and not switch it off. Another solution is to plug in the power supply before storage and let the M10 run for two days to top off the RTC battery, this should be sufficient for two months.
+t!
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So it depends on your use profile whether you have the dreaded "set date and time" problem or not. Regular use (best every day) keeps the RTC battery charged. in the future, I will let it go into sleep mode, and not switch it off. Another solution is to plug in the power supply before storage and let the M10 run for two days to top off the RTC battery, this should be sufficient for two months.
There was speculation that it was something like that early on. Unfortunately, it is my recollection that frequent users, who only briefly had the batteries out, also experienced the problem.