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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: phanophish on December 12, 2005, 08:35:18 AM
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I'm thinking of picking one of these up and am looking for some input from people who curently are using one. I've heard Doug Oade will be offering his pre mods, perhaps one on each input pair, but he did not respond to my email. What is the battery life & DC power requirements? Any more info that the review on Nick's Picks would be great.
Thanks
Brian
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There's a rather large thread with battery life test results. I think it was R4 Run times, but you'll have to search for it.
I got plenty of time off 9.6v rc packs. 6ah went something like 8 hours of record for me.
JAson
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Minidisco has these at a great price. Maybe not the absolute best price, but I think it's the best advertised price.
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here's a new point of data about the r4: mine won't boot up when it's cold. don't leave it in the trunk in december!
i spoke with roland about it and they told me i shouldn't be seeing behavior like that until the sub-zero temps, certainly not the 35 degrees we saw today. SO, note to any aspiring arctic field recordists: the edirol r-4 is sadly not the unit for you ;D
after 8 hours or so in my trunk today, it took 20 minutes or so of room temperature before it would boot again.
FYI. can someone try to reproduce this for me in the interest of science?
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I'll be running pedro's for awhile... (thanks)
really like it on first impression
build feels fine. looks easy to use..
I really want to run some comps with it soon...
and the perfect box for a matrix..
I'll also try and reproduce some vibration issues while some friends practice with full gear/amps...
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It resamples on Digi In, yeah??
teddy
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It does resample digi in from what I understand, but that is not too big of a deal IMO. I can't hear a difference on either of my systems. I'm considering this unit as well but am concerned about the hdd slow messages. The highest rate I would most likely record at would be 24/48, so maybe it would be stable for that.
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It does resample digi in from what I understand, but that is not too big of a deal IMO. I can't hear a difference on either of my systems. I'm considering this unit as well but am concerned about the hdd slow messages. The highest rate I would most likely record at would be 24/48, so maybe it would be stable for that.
not trying to dissuade you from the r4 -- it's a great machine, and i love it -- but i'm just saying that my first instinct when i saw the 'HDD SLOW' error during a live session was to ramp down from 24/96 to 24/48... and then i got 'HDD SLOW' all over again at 24/48.
tim, feel free to do any vibration tests with it as you can, just pad it nicely for the xmas jam! :-)
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The R4 would be the box to own if it wasn't for the hdd slow. I guess the CF boxes are where it's at. I really like the idea of a 40 gig hd. Seems like Edirol could fix this issue if they really wanted to.
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I have never had a media slow with the 722, even as I have let the HD get above 50% full. CF isn't necessary. The 722 does not do DMA to the hard drive. If it did, the transfer rates would be much higher. That is most significant when copying content off the device. The 4.5MB/sec rate is plenty for even 24/192.
I'm not sure what kind of drive is used in the R4 but I'm pretty sure this issue is R-4 and not the drive.
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I seem to recall a prior thread where the problem was traced to vibration from loud music and cured by padding. Or was that a different box?
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I seem to recall a prior thread where the problem was traced to vibration from loud music and cured by padding. Or was that a different box?
I thought that was the Fostex FR2? ???
Not positive on that though.
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If you run a 4gig memory card in the R4, can you transfer straight to the internal HD and clean the card?
not the best solution, but it might work....
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Problem with the R4 as I understand it is that you can't record to the CF card, only to the hd, which is another stupid design flaw.
From what I've read in old posts, it seems that some people have had no problems with the R4 and others have had a lot, with regards to the hdd slow errors. My instinct tells me that it is more of a HD tolerance issue, or lack of quality control. If you get one with a top notch drive then it's all good. I'm just guessing here.
With Minidisco's low price on this, I wish that I could know that it would be rock solid, I'd order one today. I'm on the fence between the r4, hdp2 and the 671.
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I would give edirol a call and ask them to explain wtf is going on. If they can't give you a clear answer or 'play dumb', well....
I refuse to believe that this is due to drive tolerances.
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since this thread is rolling along....
how about running the R4 vertically?
I have a laptop back pack with a inner foam compartment that I could put some more foam at the bottom of and bring the R4 up to the top.... would be perfect for carrying the extra crap I need for a long show plus be really padded from any vibrations...
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Most drives don't mind being run on their side but some warn against running upside down. I would try and find out the model of drive in the unit. Maybe you could find that out from windows when the unit is connected?
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since this thread is rolling along....
how about running the R4 vertically?
I have a laptop back pack with a inner foam compartment that I could put some more foam at the bottom of and bring the R4 up to the top.... would be perfect for carrying the extra crap I need for a long show plus be really padded from any vibrations...
I ran it vertically in the factory carrying bag, and never had any problems. It was only when laying flat that I got the HDD Slow message. FWIW, I only got that error once, and taped the exact same band, at the exact same venue, setup in the same place a second time, but ran a Check Disc prior to the show and the error didn't happen again.
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[/quote]
I ran it vertically in the factory carrying bag, and never had any problems. It was only when laying flat that I got the HDD Slow message. FWIW, I only got that error once, and taped the exact same band, at the exact same venue, setup in the same place a second time, but ran a Check Disc prior to the show and the error didn't happen again.
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Why did you move away from the R-4?
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Why did you move away from the R-4?
Size issue...I couldn't fit it in my bag, and was tired of carrying 2 sets of gear to every show.
It's a great unit, was amazing for doing matrixes, and 4 channel + 24/96 is impossible to come by for cheaper, but I was looking for as compact a rig as possible.
Oh yeah, and I'm a gear slut that's owned damn near every piece of gear ever talked about on this site at least once ;)
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Problem with the R4 as I understand it is that you can't record to the CF card, only to the hd, which is another stupid design flaw.
wow, i didn't realize this. you're absolutely right.
from page 70 of the manual:
"You cannot record directly onto a CompactFlash card, or play back files from a CompactFlash card."
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I'd pretty much decided to buy an R-4 and then I started hearing some negative comments about the analogue stage, and hearsay that NicksPicks had backed off a bit from his positive review. I may get it after all, but for the moment I'm again waiting to see how the new products turn out.
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honestly, Nickspicks reviews are all pretty much like that. They start out glowing, then a couple of months later he comes back with negatives. I've heard enough of it to know that it sounds pretty good to my ears.
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honestly, Nickspicks reviews are all pretty much like that. They start out glowing, then a couple of months later he comes back with negatives. I've heard enough of it to know that it sounds pretty good to my ears.
So, someone else besides me has realized this too?
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I'd pretty much decided to buy an R-4 and then I started hearing some negative comments about the analogue stage, and hearsay that NicksPicks had backed off a bit from his positive review. I may get it after all, but for the moment I'm again waiting to see how the new products turn out.
I've circulated a bunch of shows recorded on the R-4 with nothing in front of it. It sounds great without a pre. You can check archive.org to give it a listen.
JAson
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decisions, decions.
The r4 is really what I want, but the HD-p2 and 671 are tempting. I wish they had a hd to dump to like the 722.
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honestly, Nickspicks reviews are all pretty much like that. They start out glowing, then a couple of months later he comes back with negatives. I've heard enough of it to know that it sounds pretty good to my ears.
So, someone else besides me has realized this too?
To the extent that's true, he's in the company of plenty of professional reviewers, not limited to audio gear either.
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been playing with it all eve...
is it really this easy to use?
the box takes about 10 seconds to boot up, and then is ready to record...
just press record? and that's it? seems to simple...
what about saving the files at the end of a set? just press stop?
does a new file start right after, if I was to press record again?
I don't have the manual, but this seems almost to easy.....
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WHOA.
WTF!
Minidisco changed price for $1200 to $1550!
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been playing with it all eve...
is it really this easy to use?
yes! ;D
the box takes about 10 seconds to boot up, and then is ready to record...
just press record? and that's it? seems to simple...
what about saving the files at the end of a set? just press stop?
does a new file start right after, if I was to press record again?
I don't have the manual, but this seems almost to easy.....
sorry i really should have addressed some of these questions last night when i handed it over to you!
it is indeed that simple. just hit record! at 1:02:10 or so, it'll autostart a new file -- no need to do anything, and no samples are dropped.
and yeah, just hit stop when it's done!
at 2 channel 24/96, you've got 18 hours of record time. 4 channel 24/96, 9 hours.
and i'm assuming from your post that you found the phantom power switch -- left you a voicemail about that this afternoon.
call me tomorrow if you have any gametime questions!
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Cascade Media has a very decent price on the R4, includes free shipping
I am contemplating purchasing one.
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only major praise for the R4 after running it from 7pm to 3:30 am Sat night...
flawless performance. no HD Slow messages,
the 9 second pre-record kicks ass and save me a couple of time, getting someband intros I would have otherwise missed...
just press record at bam it's rolling..
nice meters
easy transfers...
sounds great so far
I am pretty much sold on the 24bit idea now
thanks pedro!
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I LOVE my R4!!!! no hdd slow issues yet (I always set it on a peice of 2" foam and almost never do a hd check for format). I have not been dumping the drive after each show. Pre's sound pretty damn good. Transfer is super fast. A wallyworld batt lasts forever... about 5 hrs I think. Levels are a little trickey to judge at first but you get used to them. Display, function, and use are well thought out and easy to use IMHO. I could care less about not recording to the cf as long as the hd works. I would never leave any sort of a hd in my car in the winter and then try to boot up before it was warm. I lost a hd on a pc that way once. I highly recommend the r-4.
Matt
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I've used my R-4 twice now. But a bit of background. I've got many years of recording experience, always with two mics (and long before digital!). Have gone from Sony PCMF1 through DAT, Alesis Masterlink (ML9600), and now also have an R-4. I used to use Schoeps mics, now use Earthworks for about 7 years (incredible mics). I have recorded many concerts (classical/choral type, not rock) and have released about 30 CDs (see http://www.dtrmusic.com for a list and audio samples).
I firmly believe that the most important quality aspect is to record at 24 bits. Great improvement in quality at any sampling rate and when you get to the final (CD) stage at 44.1/16 bit you are only at that quality level as the very last step.
The first time with the R-4 I recorded at 44.1/24 bit and had no problems. It was a quiet concert (16 voice madrigal choir, no instruments), so the levels were at about 12:30. Ran on AC power because the 1.5 or so hours off of the AA batteries doesn't cut it. The sound on the recording was very good.
The second time was actually two performances on the same day of the same concert, a continuous 1 1/4 hour performance. I was recording these at 96kHz/24 bit and was recording 4 channels in a surround sound setup with 4 phantom powered Earthworks mics. The first concert recording was a disaster because of Edirol R-4 power limitations. Between setting levels at the pre-concert practice and the start of the concert the external power plug had fallen out of the jack on the R-4, so I was (unknown to me) running on batteries. After about 18 minutes I saw the "low battery warning" flash. An odd message on AC power until I discovered the "non connection". I had read in the manual that you can't switch power sources, but took a chance (unfortunately) and plugged in the AC power. The R-4 immediately shut down and lost all of the 18 minutes. I then had to restart it and recorded the rest of the concert without incident.
I consider the fact that the R-4 does not seamlessly switch between battery (internal) and AC (external) power sources inexcuseable. Laptops have done that for many, many years. If the R-4 worked as it should then you could have batteries in the unit as a backup power source, so if the AC/external was lost it would work from the internal batteries, and vice versa. Obviously simple technology these days.
After being distressed by the loss of part of the first performance (the first time in many, many years I ever lost part of a concert, and this was a paid job), I was in a major panic during the second performance when after just over one hour I noticed that the big time display said about 3 minutes, rather than 1 hour plus. Then after the performance was over I tried playing back (keeping my fingers crossed) and could only play the last 10 or so minutes of the concert. Found out that the first part was saved in separate files, but for some reason they were not initially displayed in the find function. (I think I corrected later this through a system playback option.) I've been told it's somewhere in the manual, but I hadn't seen it, that the max file size is only 2 gig (which is just over an hour at 2496 stereo) and that the R-4 automatically switches to a new set of files. I was relieved when I found the recording was complete, but I think that users should be made very aware that this will happen and isn't a cause for panic.
Nick (nickspicks) has mentioned that the quality of the mic preamps leaves much to be desired. I think that while they can be improved, it is critical to avoid recording with the level controls set too low. I had to set the levels for recording the two performances, which involved a 150 voice choir, pipe organ, and brass group, to below 9 o'clock (below the 2nd tick mark) and I also used the limiter in the R-4. Later I learned that the limiter acts separately on each channel and therefore should be avoided. Nick mentioned that the line/mic switches just insert a 23 db pad early in the input chain and will work even when using phantom powered mics. It would have been better to select line on the input switches and then set the levels on the pots more in the 11 o'clock to 3 o'clock positions to be in the midrange of the preamplifier's amplification range (where the quality should be better and you have more control over the actual level).
Sometime I will try to record using external Earthworks mic preamps that truly are top notch and use both the R-4 and an Alesis Masterlink for the recording to compare quality.
I also think that Alesis needs an additional display mode where the entire width of the display is used for the 4 input meters (and, obviously, there are no output level meters) and the meters then use the added width to display more detailed levels. They currently are marginally useful for setting levels.
Be aware that Alesis reverses the polarity of the DC input jack from the "standard" if you get an external battery pack.
I consider the carry case useless except to transport the R-4 itself (with no AC power adapter, spare batteries, or anything else) and not something where you can run the R-4 while it's in the case.
The R-4 provides a lot in a small and inexpensive package. The inability to switch power sources automatically is a big failure. The meter displays need the additional option I described.
Bob
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I emailed oade bros about the price and mod, here's the reply:
"We get _____ for them and hope to have the upgrade ( TMOD ) available
the first of March."
With this news, I'm almost positive I'll be grabbing an R4 from Oade in the near future. It's going to be my dedicated onstage matrix rig (I have a regular gig with one band) and I'll run onstage mics + sbd > R4. I also inquired in the email about my specific situation to see if I could get one of the stereo inputs tweaked for line-in sbd, but as you can see they didn't acknowledge that. Although my dream matrix rig is a 744 with a v2 as the frontend, an oade R4 will be killer value.
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transfered 3.5 GB in 10 minutes
no issues w/ the file split
seemless
box kicks major ass
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http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=32435
another R4 source from a small club w/ a pretty nice sound system
lemme know what ya think
(already know I love this box :P)
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Had another great experience with the R4 on NYE; no issues at all just proping it up on the edirol carrying bag. I love the sound with the MG 210's > R4 via Line In. I used the RS 9v 6000mah battery for the first time on NYE and was abe to grab NMAS, Trey (52 minutes before I was shut down) and TBC, all with no powering issues. Keep it from vibrating and I like the R4 very much.
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FWIW, spoke with the Oade Bros today and they're planning a T mod for the R4: starting to try out components in early Feb, ready for sale in March sometime. I inquired about modding 2 ch T and 2 ch W, and they indicated it probably won't happen since the R4 doesn't provide enough power to the internal components for the W parts they usually use. Hmmmm...hoping they look for / find alternative W components - I'd love 2 ch each of T and W.
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hoping they look for / find alternative W components - I'd love 2 ch each of T and W.
You and me both.
JAson
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FWIW, spoke with the Oade Bros today and they're planning a T mod for the R4: starting to try out components in early Feb, ready for sale in March sometime. I inquired about modding 2 ch T and 2 ch W, and they indicated it probably won't happen since the R4 doesn't provide enough power to the internal components for the W parts they usually use. Hmmmm...hoping they look for / find alternative W components - I'd love 2 ch each of T and W.
now wait a minute Mr. "King of the Comps"! I thought about that to, but I had such a good time comping mics with the r4 the one time I have done it so far I don't think I would want different flavors.
BTW, I was really wanting to be the first to have it, but money is going to be tight for me for a while so I will spill the beans... busman2 is interested in doing a busman mod to an r4. I keep wanting to send mine out but I haven't yet seen the light of my financial funk, so if another non-oade r4 owner wants to contact him I think his mod would be pretty sweet. He also had an answer for the vibration/hdd slow issue that has plagued some of us. He wasn't overly confidant that he could fix the need for the line-in switch at shows but he was going to look at that for me too.
There are many ua5 owners on this board who have raved about his service and his mod so I think the r4 mods would be a good investment from him.
Matt
On another note... I did a recording 2 nights ago using internal AA rechargeables and they died just before the encore of the 2nd set. I don't know if this has been discovered already, but I lost the whole wav when it died. I was recording 2 chan 24/96. It left the name but it shows a -0- K file size and won't play from the r-4. I also tried the hd check feature and it didn't help.
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I would LOVE to get on the 24bit bandwagon with a busman2 R4! I don't have the funds for that yet (besides, I'd rather upgrade the mics before I move to 24bit), but I'd love to hear a busman2 R4 if/when this happens.
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I would LOVE to get on the 24bit bandwagon with a busman2 R4! I don't have the funds for that yet (besides, I'd rather upgrade the mics before I move to 24bit), but I'd love to hear a busman2 R4 if/when this happens.
I'm dying to hear it too. I like the r4 already, but I miss my v2... if a busman mod would bridge that gap I would be one happy camper. I'll just go on record saying that if anyone does this mod with busman, encourage him do do just one side intitially so we can have a comp of mod vs std. I will gladly ship out any of my mics for the mod if anyone has a like pair so we can get a good comp.
Matt
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I would LOVE to get on the 24bit bandwagon with a busman2 R4! I don't have the funds for that yet (besides, I'd rather upgrade the mics before I move to 24bit), but I'd love to hear a busman2 R4 if/when this happens.
What kind of funds and turnaround time, ballparkwise, are we talking about? My R-4 should arrive next week.
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I would LOVE to get on the 24bit bandwagon with a busman2 R4! I don't have the funds for that yet (besides, I'd rather upgrade the mics before I move to 24bit), but I'd love to hear a busman2 R4 if/when this happens.
What kind of funds and turnaround time, ballparkwise, are we talking about? My R-4 should arrive next week.
I dunno. Try sending busman2 a PM for his details. I can say that his UA-5 mod was very resonably priced and turnaround time was fantastic! At the time, he only needed a few days to work on/test the UA-5 to make sure everything was good to go. However, I'm sure turnaround time is dependant on his personal time and the amount of work he has coming in.
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I would LOVE to get on the 24bit bandwagon with a busman2 R4! I don't have the funds for that yet (besides, I'd rather upgrade the mics before I move to 24bit), but I'd love to hear a busman2 R4 if/when this happens.
What kind of funds and turnaround time, ballparkwise, are we talking about? My R-4 should arrive next week.
I dunno. Try sending busman2 a PM for his details. I can say that his UA-5 mod was very resonably priced and turnaround time was fantastic! At the time, he only needed a few days to work on/test the UA-5 to make sure everything was good to go. However, I'm sure turnaround time is dependant on his personal time and the amount of work he has coming in.
He has never cracked an r4 so he's not really sure if he can do it the same way as he would a ua-5. He implied that it would be more $ than a ua5 mod because the 4 pre's and he also cautioned he doesn't know for sure what or how much or how long until he gets inside of one. PM him. If you are serious you could send him some hi-res photos of the guts and he may be able to make a better estimation based on that.
Matt
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I'll keep it in mind. Wanna make a few tapes with it first and get a good handle on the sound.
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Well, I made the jump, recievd it today. Inital impressions are it's bigger than I expected, but I'm excited to break it in this weekend for the Yonder Mountain shows in Lawrence. I'm thinking I'll run both sets of my mics and do 24/96 one night and 16/44 the other just to play around a bit. I'll post my experience here once I have more to add.
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I would LOVE to get on the 24bit bandwagon with a busman2 R4! I don't have the funds for that yet (besides, I'd rather upgrade the mics before I move to 24bit), but I'd love to hear a busman2 R4 if/when this happens.
What kind of funds and turnaround time, ballparkwise, are we talking about? My R-4 should arrive next week.
I dunno. Try sending busman2 a PM for his details. I can say that his UA-5 mod was very resonably priced and turnaround time was fantastic! At the time, he only needed a few days to work on/test the UA-5 to make sure everything was good to go. However, I'm sure turnaround time is dependant on his personal time and the amount of work he has coming in.
He has never cracked an r4 so he's not really sure if he can do it the same way as he would a ua-5. He implied that it would be more $ than a ua5 mod because the 4 pre's and he also cautioned he doesn't know for sure what or how much or how long until he gets inside of one. PM him. If you are serious you could send him some hi-res photos of the guts and he may be able to make a better estimation based on that.
Matt
If anyone takes this apart, please send, or better yet, post pictures of the guts! Here is my guess: a discrete transistor front end plus a vanilla opamp behind with. In this case, perhaps changing the opamps won't make such a big difference. Anyway, I'd like to see what is really inside.
By the way, how does the sound compare to a stock UA5? I'm running a Presonus firepod and I *definitely* notice an improvement over the stock UA5. The Presonus has vanilla opamps, but I think the discrete front end plus running +-15V makes a big difference in sound.
Richard
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Just got done running YMSB this weekend. I am in love with the R-4. ;D I'll admit it, I was so wrong. I knew I'd like the device but, I really didn't think there would be a huge difference between 16/44.1 and 24.96. I am blown away. The sound is just so much more, smooth I guess is what I would say. It really did suprize me. Count me a believer. On top of that, the R-4 is just so nice to run. Very simple, easy to use, fast transfers. All I need now is a good workflow for tracking out the 24.96 stuff to DVD Audio. I'm still working on getting that just right. Any links to how tos for Wavelab? Other good options?
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Just got done running YMSB this weekend. I am in love with the R-4. ;D I'll admit it, I was so wrong. I knew I'd like the device but, I really didn't think there would be a huge difference between 16/44.1 and 24.96. I am blown away. The sound is just so much more, smooth I guess is what I would say. It really did suprize me. Count me a believer. On top of that, the R-4 is just so nice to run. Very simple, easy to use, fast transfers. All I need now is a good workflow for tracking out the 24.96 stuff to DVD Audio. I'm still working on getting that just right. Any links to how tos for Wavelab? Other good options?
I was struggling with the tracking on the 24bit files then I saw that cdwav had a new version out and it is nearly flawless. If you save to wav it isn't then possible to flac them... not sure shat that is about. If you go strait to flac the files are perfect. If I am doing global post in wavelab, I cut the files in half with cd/wav so I don't threaten the 2gb limit.
As for the general use of the r-4, I am a huge fan as well. I am so happy I bought one. It is slicker than shit.
Matt
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I was struggling with the tracking on the 24bit files then I saw that cdwav had a new version out and it is nearly flawless. If you save to wav it isn't then possible to flac them... not sure shat that is about. If you go strait to flac the files are perfect.
Tick the "Use Alternate 24-bit Format" checkbox when saving to WAV and you'll be able to FLAC afterwards at will.
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I was struggling with the tracking on the 24bit files then I saw that cdwav had a new version out and it is nearly flawless. If you save to wav it isn't then possible to flac them... not sure shat that is about. If you go strait to flac the files are perfect.
Tick the "Use Alternate 24-bit Format" checkbox when saving to WAV and you'll be able to FLAC afterwards at will.
OK brian... don't post in this thread again until you haved dumped your mt's and bought an r4! (actually... thanks for the tip!)
For the record. I have never had the slow hdd message. This last show was a total of 5hrs @ 4track 24/96 with a 1/2 full drive. I have always taken he advice of others (this would be quite the lie if I ended the sentence here!) and put a piece of foam under the unit to arrest vibrations, but that is all.
Matt
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fwiw...
I still think the R4 is a homerun box from Edirol. Just dont expect a "high end" audiophile sound out of its analog section. run a preamp in front of it, and that thing freakin' rocks HARD...the A/D is pretty solid, IMO.
recordings that I made using the stock preamps sounded good to me at first...then I started running a 248 in front of it, and that showed me exactly how those stock preamps sort of sucked. they are hollow souding.
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fwiw...
I still think the R4 is a homerun box from Edirol. Just dont expect a "high end" audiophile sound out of its analog section. run a preamp in front of it, and that thing freakin' rocks HARD...the A/D is pretty solid, IMO.
recordings that I made using the stock preamps sounded good to me at first...then I started running a 248 in front of it, and that showed me exactly how those stock preamps sort of sucked. they are hollow souding.
Nick, if you are running an analog pre in front of it, arent you still running through the R4 pre? If the pre's are lacking in dynamic range or in fidelity then you aren't changing that with your 248. If they are lacking in color, then I can see where the 248 could help. However, in my eyes, I would think a colored mic would have a similar effect. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Matt
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my ears tell me your wrong.
yes, i'm still running through the analog section, but its getting a line level signal that does not need any gain (other than provided by the 248).
the quality of that line level signal is way better than what happens after a mic level signal is routed through those ass preamps.
a note of interest.
all of the 16bit recordings i made w/the Marantz ACM660 totaly smoke every stock preamp R4 recording I did at 2496.
Proving to me that great 16bit is better then "eh" 24bit.
but a great 24bit signal is still the shit.
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the problem w/the r4 preamps (other than sucking)...
"mic" level, they are way too sensitive. you will find it impossible to record a rock show this way.
"line" level, then you have to crank the gain into the nether regions of noise that the preamps introduce.
no happy medium, unless you are recording quiet sources where you can run mic in and get decent sound because your not pushing the preamps too hard (they dont like it)
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my ears tell me your wrong.
yes, i'm still running through the analog section, but its getting a line level signal that does not need any gain (other than provided by the 248).
the quality of that line level signal is way better than what happens after a mic level signal is routed through those ass preamps.
a note of interest.
all of the 16bit recordings i made w/the Marantz ACM660 totaly smoke every stock preamp R4 recording I did at 2496.
Proving to me that great 16bit is better then "eh" 24bit.
but a great 24bit signal is still the shit.
Well... my warped logic is not the quality of your ears and playback setup I'm sure Nick, so I'll heed your word on this one! I'm trying to work out a comp of the two different mbho omni's and may be able to work in a comp with mbho cards > v3 (analog out) > r4 -vs- mbho cards > r4. (hint hint brian!). I guess we will have to see what happens, but that would sure tell the tale. I have noticed that the r4 gets really noisy with the gain knob up so that could be a big part of it. I'm not implying that the r4 has preamps equal to the quality of grace or an oade brick, but they sound better than previous edirol pre's from what I can tell without a direct comp.
Thanks for the words Nick!
"mic" level, they are way too sensitive. you will find it impossible to record a rock show this way.
"line" level, then you have to crank the gain into the nether regions of noise that the preamps introduce.
no happy medium, unless you are recording quiet sources where you can run mic in and get decent sound because your not pushing the preamps too hard (they dont like it)
I agree with this for sure... I really wish that happy medium was there. I'm sure if oade ever gets going on these, that will be solved. When you run your 248 do you then go mic in and keep levels low or use the pad and keep the r4 knob low?
Matt
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I'm trying to work out a comp of the two different mbho omni's and may be able to work in a comp with mbho cards > v3 (analog out) > r4 -vs- mbho cards > r4. (hint hint brian!).
Gimme time and place and we'll get it done. I'd love to run my Schoeps and AKGs through the R4, also, to see if I want to unload my T+ UA5 for an R4 (to be T-modded in the future). Maybe Goran at Metro this Fri? Though on-stage may not be the best comp.
I have noticed that the r4 gets really noisy with the gain knob up so that could be a big part of it. [snip] I really wish that happy medium was there. I'm sure if oade ever gets going on these, that will be solved.
When I spoke with the Oades a couple weeks ago, they plan on working out a T-mod for the R4 during Feb and hopefully offering it for field use in Mar. I asked about the + mod, and they indicated the R4 didn't really need a + mod, i.e. it's quiet enough as-is. If Nick's saying the stock preamps are noisy at high gain, then I'm not sure what to think based on the Oadess comments. While the UA5's straight T/W/P mod helped knock down the self-noise noticeably (it was still there at very high gain), the + mod removed it (audibly) entirely.
Hmmmm...looking forward to the comp, Matt!
Edit to add: Also wanted to mention the Oades are not considering a W-mod for the R4 at this point. Something about the R4's board voltage being too low for the W components they would like to use. Damn shame, I'd've loved 2 ch W and 2 ch T!
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There are a couple variances that make this a non-true comp:
Boa ran 24/48 and dithered down to 16/44 and I ran 16/44 originally
Boa was ~20' closer and ~20' more DFC than I was
Boa ran ~13' high, I ran ~8.5' high
And cards v. hypers, if I understand the MG model designations correctly (M20 = card caps, M210 = SMS2000 bodies + M21 hyper caps)?
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my ears ring and my stereo is modest, at best.
but you dont need the best of either to hear that the R4s preamps are not up to par w/the way you want them to sound. A V2 in front would smoke. yea, I'll say that they are better than the stock UA5, but not by a lot. It depends...they sound great at low gain. turn them up though...yuk. pad them and double yuk..and unfortunatly, if your a jam-band jocky then that is exactly how you have to run them.
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but you dont need the best of either to hear that the R4s preamps are not up to par w/the way you want them to sound. A V2 in front would smoke. yea, I'll say that they are better than the stock UA5, but not by a lot. It depends...they sound great at low gain. turn them up though...yuk. pad them and double yuk..and unfortunatly, if your a jam-band jocky then that is exactly how you have to run them.
Hopefully the T-mod reduces enough of the self-noise to allow running fairly high gain without trouble. Thanks for the feedback, Nick. Matt and I will see what we can do to get a comp out there so people may have a first-hand listen. I'm drooling over the prospect of the T-mod R4...2 x 2 ch recording for easy SBD + AUD or AUD + AUD (say hypers + omnis) mixing in post, etc.
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And cards v. hypers, if I understand the MG model designations correctly (M20 = card caps, M210 = SMS2000 bodies + M21 hyper caps)?
If we are being ultra technical here....the caps=m20,m21,m27
Bodies==MV200
bodies and caps together-=m210,m200,m270
SERIES===SMS2000 (this name serves the same purpose as the "Blue Line" OR "Colette")
Dirk at MG busted my chops a lot because I used to use the wrong names.
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[snip] Dirk at MG busted my chops a lot because I used to se the wrong names.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Proper references definitely don't hurt!
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so,
has anyone heard anything from the oades about the mods for this box?
loved using sleepypedro's
it's in the shop now for a tune up or replacement, but aside from that, it is just abreeze to use and transfer
would only be that much better to get at least 2 chanels modded
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it will be a great recorder w/a Oade MOD..for sure. and for you 24/96kHz and 4chan freaks, it will be the ultimate. for the rest who are happy w/lower sample rates (44.1 or 48khz for CF media) the W or T mod FR2 and ACM671 are better choices, IMO.
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has anyone heard anything from the oades about the mods for this box?
(Ahem!)
When I spoke with the Oades a couple weeks ago, they plan on working out a T-mod for the R4 during Feb and hopefully offering it for field use in Mar. I asked about the + mod, and they indicated the R4 didn't really need a + mod, i.e. it's quiet enough as-is.
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Brian,
I won't have the 2nd set of HO's by then and between us we don't have any like mics. I was hoping maybe we could comp your 414's vs my c-1's at goran ;D That is if you can stand running your 414's x/y on stage.
What does Matt D have? if he has a pair of like mics then we can go for it. I think on stage would be a great wasy to comp BTW.
Matt
**edit** othersise I was hoping I could use your v3 for the wu show on the 11th if you aren't using it. Sleepypedro said he would be able to send me his mbho's sometime around the 7th, and he is gone until the 18th so I can use them for over a week. He has card, hyper and the omni's with the presence bump.
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I have a pair of XLR splitters. One pair of mics split to 2 pre/ADCs = no problem. Besides, I don't think I could possibly run my 414s XY on-stage with Blumlein or split omnis begging to be run! Matt D has DPA 402x and a 722. The reason I don't think on-stage comps are good is because damn near *any* gear sounds mighty fine on-stage. But, shoot, we might as well give it a go - I'll bring the splitters. :)
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Brian,
I won't have the 2nd set of HO's by then and between us we don't have any like mics. I was hoping maybe we could comp your 414's vs my c-1's at goran ;D That is if you can stand running your 414's x/y on stage.
What does Matt D have? if he has a pair of like mics then we can go for it. I think on stage would be a great wasy to comp BTW.
Matt
**edit** othersise I was hoping I could use your v3 for the wu show on the 11th if you aren't using it. Sleepypedro said he would be able to send me his mbho's sometime around the 7th, and he is gone until the 18th so I can use them for over a week. He has card, hyper and the omni's with the presence bump.
not a given until i check in with someone (also on this board). probably not an issue, just don't count yr chickens yet yknow...
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I have a pair of XLR splitters. One pair of mics split to 2 pre/ADCs = no problem. Besides, I don't think I could possibly run my 414s XY on-stage with Blumlein or split omnis begging to be run! Matt D has DPA 402x and a 722. The reason I don't think on-stage comps are good is because damn near *any* gear sounds mighty fine on-stage. But, shoot, we might as well give it a go - I'll bring the splitters. :)
See... I know what it is! You're chicken! You know c-1's are gonna make the 414's sound like ass! ;D
Ok... we can use your spliiters! I will decided between now and then if I want to bring my Mackie rig too. You could just run the v3-r4 comp from the foh with your mk4's and go 414 > t+mod from stage.
Then I can run my mbho's on stage omni and my c4's on stage omni through my multi rig! Then we can have:
mbho vs c4 comp (yeah... I know. Kinda pointless)
v3 > r4 vs r4 comp
mk4 > v3 > MT vs mk4 > v3 > r4 vs mk4 > v3 > r4 > onyx for a 3way adc comp (assuming that the r4 passes the analog straight through)
That would give a perfect mic comp, a pre comp, a 3-way adc comp!
For single sources we could have
mk4 > v3 > mt
mk4 > v3 > r4 >onyx
mk4 > r4 > onyx
mk4 > r4
mk4 > v3 > r4
414 > t+mod
mbho > onyx
c4 > onyx
sbd > onyx
then, to top it all off. By utilizing everything that goes into the onyx we could have a 3,120-way matrix comp!!!!!!!
c4 + sbd matrix
c4 + mbho matrix
c4 + sbd +mbho matrix
c4 + mbho + mk4 > v3 > r4 matrix
c4 + mbho +sbd + mk4 > v3 > r4 matrix
c4 + mbho + mk4 > r4 matrix
c4 + mbho + sbd +mk4 > r4 matrix
c4 + mk4 > r4 matrix
c4 +sbd + mk4 > r4 matrix
c4 + mk4 > v3 > r4 matrix
c4 + sbd + mk4 > v3 > r4 matrix
c4 + mk4 > v3 > r4 mk4 > r4 matrix
c4 + sbd + mk4 > v3 > r4 mk4 > r4 matrix
mbho matrix
mbho + mk4 > v3 > r4 matrix
mbho + mbho + mk4 > r4 matrix
Awe fuck it! I just did the math 5 to the 5th power right? THEN we can post them all to the archive for everyone to enjoy! :realhappy: Or do you think that is overkill?
Matt
***edit*** actually I just thought maybe we could find a way to run your t+ into the onyx and that should give us another 43,000 possible matrix combinations (give or take)!
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Brian,
I won't have the 2nd set of HO's by then and between us we don't have any like mics. I was hoping maybe we could comp your 414's vs my c-1's at goran ;D That is if you can stand running your 414's x/y on stage.
What does Matt D have? if he has a pair of like mics then we can go for it. I think on stage would be a great wasy to comp BTW.
Matt
**edit** othersise I was hoping I could use your v3 for the wu show on the 11th if you aren't using it. Sleepypedro said he would be able to send me his mbho's sometime around the 7th, and he is gone until the 18th so I can use them for over a week. He has card, hyper and the omni's with the presence bump.
not a given until i check in with someone (also on this board). probably not an issue, just don't count yr chickens yet yknow...
no problem... see my responce to your PM
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Skalinder...
master of the obvious that slips right past mortals like me :P
thanks
hope this pans out....
would own that as soon as I could afford it...
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not my cup of tea, but may be the shiznit for someone else.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Edirol-R-4-Hard-Case_W0QQitemZ7379348056QQcategoryZ15199QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Matt
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not my cup of tea, but may be the shiznit for someone else.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Edirol-R-4-Hard-Case_W0QQitemZ7379348056QQcategoryZ15199QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Matt
not mine either, but it seems what they offer is it's just the R4 HARD CASE...
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not my cup of tea, but may be the shiznit for someone else.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Edirol-R-4-Hard-Case_W0QQitemZ7379348056QQcategoryZ15199QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Matt
not mine either, but it seems what they offer is it's just the R4 HARD CASE...
yeah... I thought some my be interested in that.
Matt
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yeah... I thought some my be interested in that.
Matt
there are only a very small handful of r4 owners on this board, and i bet zero of us could be suckered into a $200 hard-plastic case! :P
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yeah... I thought some my be interested in that.
Matt
there are only a very small handful of r4 owners on this board, and i bet zero of us could be suckered into a $200 hard-plastic case! :P
Yeah... never gave it too much thought. Just found a rare accessory for the r4 and posted it. I'm sure the UK factor has something to do with the price too.
Matt
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I have been debating investing in one of the R4 boxes because, well, just because. :)
For those of you that wonder what the stock pre's sound like compared to say, a V3, here is your chance for a guerilla comparison.
Compare my source and Boa's Black Crowes source from NYE '05 at MSG.
There are a couple variances that make this a non-true comp:
Boa ran 24/48 and dithered down to 16/44 and I ran 16/44 originally
Boa was ~20' closer and ~20' more DFC than I was
Boa ran ~13' high, I ran ~8.5' high
Even though the above variatons are present I still think it is worth a listen to compare the two pre/adc sections of the boxes. I have my own opinion but I would like to hear what others also think about how strong the R4 is, stock.
Boa:
MG M210 > R4 @ 24/48
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=21394
me:
MG M20 > ECMS-23 > V3 > JB3 @ 16/44
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=22034
Can you reseed this again (or someone else)? I'm getting Boa, but not yours.
Thanks,
Richard