Topic: Sony PCM-M10 or the Olympus LS-11

[earmonger]

I don't get the value of the Wingfield audio test for those of us who record music and don't care much about recording speach. I wouldn't waste 5 minutes comparing mics on it. I'd rather hear samples and other tapers' opinions of these mics recording music, particularly loud music.

Me too, which is why I pointed out that those tests are "just for speech."

There are samples here:

http://www.frequencycast.co.uk/olympusrecorders.html

But they don't say if they're LS-10 or LS-11.

The reviewer also says:

"The frequency response of the built-in microphones does not go any lower than 70 Hertz on the LS-10 and 60 Hertz on the LS-11."

[jboyzh]

Just some updates:

Price: Here in Switzerland, the lowest prices for the LS-11 and the M10 are about the same.

Noise floor: wingfieldaudio - even if they are mostly about speech, there has been made the point in this thread that the LS-11 sounded less quiet than the M10 in their samples - just updated the noise floor samples, where the LS-11 now is quieter than before.

LS-11 to LS-10 bass improvement, now found officially confirmed by Olympus: "With the LS-11, the frequency response has been extended to lower frequencies, delivering richer and more powerful bass and mid-tones."
Source, complete with graph comparing LS-10 to LS-11:
http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/products/voice_recorders/linear_pcm/ls11/

[earmonger]

That frequency-response graph shows a pretty steep bass roll-off below 100 Hz. 100 Hz is slightly sharper than the A-flat an octave-and-a-fraction below middle C.

Remember, the lowest note on a piano is 27.5 Hz.  With either microphone, that's coming in at -25dB, pretty meager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

Then again, we haven't seen similar graphs at all for the PCM-M10 mics.

[MikeMannZ]

Sony PCM-M10 ordered    I could research this forever.  I had to bite the bullet.  I think it gives me the most options.

Thanks everyone....I'll post up some tunes of my band as soon as I get it.

[jboyzh]

And here you can download the official Sony mic graph for the m10 ... pretty nice at 0 degrees but not going below 40Hz, though:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/product-PCMM10%2FB/ > Resources > Download, or direct link: http://bit.ly/aN318I

[chrise]

Source, complete with graph comparing LS-10 to LS-11:
http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/products/voice_recorders/linear_pcm/ls11/

That appears to relate to built in mics.  Obviously some mics will pick up more bass than others, and the internal mics on these units must involve some element of compromise.

HOWEVER, as I understand it, critically, the LS-10 applies a non-defeatable bass cut to the *external mic input*, so no matter what mic you connect, you lose bass.  I'm some situations this may be acceptable, or even  desirable.  But you don't get the choice.  This has been described by Guysonic - see: http://www.sonicstudios.com/ls10revw.htm

Fraid I'm still unclear whether the LS-11 mic input is similarly affected.

[MikeMannZ]

So 1st impressions...

Easy navigation
Fast start up
User friendly
really nice design overall

The plastic-ness of this unit is it's downfall.  I'll be surprised if the battery door stays on it's cheap plastic hinges.  At least you can load the memory card and never touch it again, that door would surely break after multiple uses.  One fall and this thing is done.  The edirol seems much tuffer. 

Aside from that I'm looking forward to trying it out and seeing how it performs.

[Ozpeter]

The manual actually specifies how to refit the battery door should it come off if dropped - in other words, it seems to be designed to detach rather than break.

Obviously accidents can happen, but personally I'd always handle anything small and expensive with some care!

And these days, plastics are (or can be) remarkably tough - for all I know, they've used polycarbonate same as the visors in motorbike crash helmets.

[fmaderjr]

So 1st impressions...
Easy navigation
Fast start up
User friendly
really nice design overall

Love the MR-10, but see if you think start up is quick after you put a 16 GB card in there.

Doesn't bother me though. I never record anything spur of the moment. I think for those who do, you can carry it around in record pause and it automatically goes into a power saving mode in a few minutes and instantly comes back to life when you need to record.

I agree with everything else. Love the large display too. Is very easy to see where your levels are peaking.

[chrise]

I never record anything spur of the moment. I think for those who do, you can carry it around in record pause and it automatically goes into a power saving mode in a few minutes and instantly comes back to life when you need to record.

Haven't tried leaving the PCM-M10 in record-pause.  However, I notice it goes to "sleep" if simply left powered on in stop mode.  And yes, wake up takes (I think) less than a second.

I haven't tried a big card yet - will be interesting to see if this significantly delays the wake-up time.

[fmaderjr]

Then there is no advantage to trying to put it to sleep when in record pause. It is in stop mode when it comes out of it anyway. But you can still start recording very quickly.

Great little machine.

[chrise]

Right - I see what you mean.

Basically, when out recording, I've just been letting it go to sleep, so it's ready to start very quickly (under one second).

Which is nice. 

And, a helluva lot faster than my MicroTrack (v1) which took at least 20 seconds to get ready to record...

[illconditioned]

So 1st impressions...
Easy navigation
Fast start up
User friendly
really nice design overall

Love the MR-10, but see if you think start up is quick after you put a 16 GB card in there.

Doesn't bother me though. I never record anything spur of the moment. I think for those who do, you can carry it around in record pause and it automatically goes into a power saving mode in a few minutes and instantly comes back to life when you need to record.

I agree with everything else. Love the large display too. Is very easy to see where your levels are peaking.

Yeah, two things I love about this unit.  One is it is just "always on".  Hit record and you're good to go.  The second thing is the level lights.  For ambient I use low sens, for (amplified) music I use -20dB setting.  Set the dial to about half way, then use the green/red lights for realtime setting of levels.

The only complaint I've got about this unit so far is the level controls aren't really linear (in dB levels).  In particular, I noted that there is very little gain change above level #7/10 or so.  Aside from that I have no complaints.  This is my go to rig!

  Richard

[jb63]

I see now that the LS-11 has taken the plunge to match the M10 price:

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-LS-11-Linear-Recorder/dp/B002RDWL9Q/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0#moreAboutThisProduct

[stancourtney]

On January 26, 2010 I bought the Olympus LS-11.  This week I received a refund check in full.

The LS-11 in mp3 or wma mode (even when using a 32 gb sdhc card) has a limit of 4 gb recording per session.  I bought the unit wanting to do extended length ambient nature recording. According to the chart in the LS-11 users guide it could record over a 1,000 hrs using the 32 gb. sdhc card.

Short story - in continuous mode the unit is limited to one file of 4 gb size.  After complaining since February that the unit was not working properly, the head office in Japan stated they would not change the firmware to allow the recorder to fill up the sdhc card. You must press the button after every 4 gb file.  I explained that was like buying a car with a 10 gal gasoline tank and then stopping every 10 miles to restart the engine.

After waiting almost 3 months for support to solve the problem, they agreed to refund my money which I then quickly bought the Sony PCM-M10 which does almost exactly what the Olympus LS-11 promised to do but failed to follow through on.

Stan Courtney

http://www.stancourtney.com/