Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Roland r26  (Read 34989 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Chimney Top

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2013, 06:05:25 PM »
OK, however the R-26 has a setting for +4dBu (line level) and it is still distorting.

You should probably ask Roland directly...seems like quirk w/ the R-26's XLR inputs.  They'll take a week to reply though :-P

that's what I thought, so I tried the DR-100 XLR and it distorted as well...

However, the R-26 has a line level setting... I'll send Roland another e-mail.

Offline dallman

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Gender: Male
    • Clifford Morse
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2013, 06:41:54 PM »
OK, however the R-26 has a setting for +4dBu (line level) and it is still distorting.

You should probably ask Roland directly...seems like quirk w/ the R-26's XLR inputs.  They'll take a week to reply though :-P

that's what I thought, so I tried the DR-100 XLR and it distorted as well...

However, the R-26 has a line level setting... I'll send Roland another e-mail.
When using the XLR's on the Tascam DR100MKII, you have a line/mic option. Are you using the Line In option?
Support Live Music: Tape A Show Today!
Deck>possibly something here> Mics

Chimney Top

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2013, 06:55:54 PM »
OK, however the R-26 has a setting for +4dBu (line level) and it is still distorting.

You should probably ask Roland directly...seems like quirk w/ the R-26's XLR inputs.  They'll take a week to reply though :-P

that's what I thought, so I tried the DR-100 XLR and it distorted as well...

However, the R-26 has a line level setting... I'll send Roland another e-mail.
When using the XLR's on the Tascam DR100MKII, you have a line/mic option. Are you using the Line In option?


It's the DR-100.

Offline Todd R

  • Over/Under on next gear purchase: 2 months
  • Trade Count: (29)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4901
  • Gender: Male
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2013, 05:54:46 PM »
It's also a bit silly to compare the R-26 to a SD744T, considering 744T costs 8X as much.
i'm not comparing the R-26 and SD744 recorders as such.
i'm comparing Input Clipping Level of 2 recorders with the XLR inputs, <snip>

No, you're not comparing the clipping of the 2 recorders, you're comparing the sensitivity and maximum gain.  The numbers avisoft report are the ability of the recorder to get to 0dbFS using it's maximum gain.  As such, the avisoft numbers are really the sensitivity of the recorder, and they have nothing to do with clipping.  And for the numbers they report, lower is better, not worse. The 722 requires you to have a signal of at least -46dbu (3.8mv) in amplitude in order to record up to the maximum of 0dbFS, with the R26, you can record a signal as low as -70dbu (0.25mv) and still get the recorder to hit 0dbFS -- this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The 722 has a max input before clipping of +26dbu and the R26 has a max input before clipping of +24dbu.  The Olympus LS10 manual is a little unclear, but it looks like it has a max input of -6dbu.  So the R26 can take a max signal that is 32dbu hotter than the LS10, meaning the R26 can take a signal that is over 16Volt rms hotter than the LS10 without clipping.  2 different worlds, on this level, the R26 is pretty much like the 722 and the LS10 is junk.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2013, 05:56:27 PM »
It's also a bit silly to compare the R-26 to a SD744T, considering 744T costs 8X as much.
i'm not comparing the R-26 and SD744 recorders as such.
i'm comparing Input Clipping Level of 2 recorders with the XLR inputs, <snip>

No, you're not comparing the clipping of the 2 recorders, you're comparing the sensitivity and maximum gain.  The numbers avisoft report are the ability of the recorder to get to 0dbFS using it's maximum gain.  As such, the avisoft numbers are really the sensitivity of the recorder, and they have nothing to do with clipping.  And for the numbers they report, lower is better, not worse. The 722 requires you to have a signal of at least -46dbu (3.8mv) in amplitude in order to record up to the maximum of 0dbFS, with the R26, you can record a signal as low as -70dbu (0.25mv) and still get the recorder to hit 0dbFS -- this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The 722 has a max input before clipping of +26dbu and the R26 has a max input before clipping of +24dbu.  The Olympus LS10 manual is a little unclear, but it looks like it has a max input of -6dbu.  So the R26 can take a max signal that is 32dbu hotter than the LS10, meaning the R26 can take a signal that is over 16Volt rms hotter than the LS10 without clipping.  2 different worlds, on this level, the R26 is pretty much like the 722 and the LS10 is junk.

Thanks for your much better explanation than mine :)  I knew I wasn't crazy....
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline kenyee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2013, 10:08:43 PM »
So the R26 can take a max signal that is 32dbu hotter than the LS10, meaning the R26 can take a signal that is over 16Volt rms hotter than the LS10 without clipping.  2 different worlds, on this level, the R26 is pretty much like the 722 and the LS10 is junk.

Todd: can you please explain avisoft's dynamic range number?  If the R-26 can take that large a difference, why isn't the dynamic range bigger?

Offline Todd R

  • Over/Under on next gear purchase: 2 months
  • Trade Count: (29)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4901
  • Gender: Male
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2013, 12:38:06 AM »
So the R26 can take a max signal that is 32dbu hotter than the LS10, meaning the R26 can take a signal that is over 16Volt rms hotter than the LS10 without clipping.  2 different worlds, on this level, the R26 is pretty much like the 722 and the LS10 is junk.

Todd: can you please explain avisoft's dynamic range number?  If the R-26 can take that large a difference, why isn't the dynamic range bigger?

I suspect it is because the avisoft numbers are at max gain, and max gain between different recorders is different.

Say you have 2 recorders that have EIN of -120dbu. One recorder like the R26 can reach 0dbFS given an input as low as -70dbu. So this recorder has a dynamic range of 50db at max gain. The other recorder can on reach 0dbFS with a signal as low as -55dbu, so it has a dynamic range of 65db.

The second recorder on that basis sounds better than the first. But if you need to record a low signal that only reaches -70dbu (say a nature recording), and you want your ultimate recorded product to be at 0dbFS. With the first recorder, you just record the sound at max gain, and you have a recording at 0dbFS, and it has the dynamic range of 50db.  With the second recorder, you record the -70dbu signal at max gain, and your recording comes out at -15dbFS, since that recorder doesn't have as much gain. So in post, you boost the recording 15db, to get the recording up to 0dbFS. But in boosting the signal, you just boosted the noise of the recorder too. So you've effectively reduced the dynamic range of that 2nd recorder from 65db to 50db, since you boosted the recorded signal by 15db and by doing so boosted the noise from -120dbu to -105dbu.

Ok, late at night, but I think I got that right. At any rate, the difficulty is that it is difficult to compare across the numbers in the avisoft, since they depend on the recorders max gain, and the max gain varies across recorders.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Chimney Top

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2013, 05:40:32 PM »
Regarding the distortion issues using Mixpre > R-26, I e-mailed Shure and Roland and this is the response:

Shure: The FP-24 is line level out, the recorder needs line level input.
Roland:  The R-26 has a maximum input level of +24dbu (setting +4dbu line level)

Yet the signal is still distorted.

Shure:
"Strange indeed. The FP24 is an impedance balanced output.  Perhaps the device following the FP24 (Roland R-26) does not react well with an impedance balanced output. Assuming that is the case, I recommend trying a 1:1 transformer between the FP24 and the following device (Roland R-26)."


The Roland R-26 specs say the XLR/TRS inputs are 'balanced/unbalanced'.

Mixpre > Fostex FR-2LE worked ok, the FR-2LE inputs are balanced.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 06:05:35 PM by Chimney Top »

Offline trenino3

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2013, 06:04:55 AM »
Is it possible to split one mono input to two different mono channels in order to have them at different levels for safety? Something like the dual mono feature in marantz pmd661 and tascam dr-60d?

Offline trenino3

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2013, 05:43:33 PM »
nobody thought about splitting the mono? any ideas?

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: Roland r26
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2013, 06:41:16 PM »
nobody thought about splitting the mono? any ideas?

You could split a mono signal and throw a -20dB attenuator in front of one of the two; that would do it.  Of course, then you'd only be recording in mono.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.061 seconds with 35 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF