Topic: KORG PROMO: TALK TO KORG

[aegert]

Hey
Please feel free to use this forum to ask any and all questions about teh Korg offer or Korg Products for recording in this thread.

The MR-2 Promotional 30% off thread is located here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153691.0

The marketing product managers will be checking in here to communicate and answer your questions.

The MR2 is a great product that will give you great pulls and enable you to go from 1bit to 24 or 16 with ease. It will also facilitate 1 bit dsd discs playable in some players and systems which enables production of your recordings so you can here them as never before!

I hope this becomes a great partnership for Korg and TS!

aegert (adam)

[drchen]

Thank you to aegert(Adam) for connecting TS'ers directly to KORG. What a concept!

I'm considering the purchase of an MR2, especially now that you offering TSers a special deal.
I wanted an MR1000 but didn't act fast enough before they were no longer available new.

I'd like to better understand aegert's comment:
"It will also facilitate SACD production of your recordings so you can here them as never before!"

Can one produce an SACD disc with recordings made from an MR2? If so, what is involved? Special software to "master" an SACD?  Hardware?  If this topic is discussed in another thread, please forgive me.

A related question is: What are my options to listen back to my DSD recordings made using the MR2?
 
I think one option is to convert it to PCM using your Audiogate Software and either burn to CD(less desireable due 16 bit--a decrease in audio quality) or computer playback in Hi-Rez PCM (24/96 or 24/192) via a USB DAC. But in the conversion process from DSD to PCM,  I'm fairly certain that some data(and sound quality) is lost.
 
The other option that I can think of is to play it back with the file still in the MR2 deck via the headphone out jack. But the DAC and headphone amp in the MR2 are not audiophile quality, IMHO.

Are there any other options for playback of a DSD?  Is there a USB DAC (or something equivalent) that can handle DSD files? (Under $5k) 

Thanks again to KORG and Adam.

[aegert]

There is an accompanying SW Called Audio Gate here is info on it and Download it:

http://www.korguser.net/audiogate/en/download.html


They are up to version 2. Its this sw that can burn DSD discs. My understanding it will author SACD(edit incorrect DSD discs not SACD):

http://www.korguser.net/audiogate/en/about.html

Read this and see about the 1-bit dsd discs playable on your SACD player:

Quote:

* DSD discs (1-bit; 2.8 MHz) created by AudioGate can be played back on players such as the Sony SCD-XA5400ES Super Audio CD/CD player, the Sony SCD-XE800 Super Audio CD/CD player or PlayStation®3 from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. DSD discs to be played on the Sony SCD-XA5400ES or the Sony SCD-XE800 require the following conditions. AudioGate meets these conditions. (As of August 21st, 2010, confirmed by KORG Inc.)

- Disc: DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, and DVD-RW, that are compatible with DVD-ROM specifications
- File extension: dsf
- Folder type: DSD_DISC folder
- Maximum size of a file: up to 4GB
- Channel: 2-channel
- Maximum number of playable files: up to 150 files per folder
- Maximum number of playable folders: up to 200 folders per disc
- Maximum number of playable layers: up to 8th layer
- Sampling frequency: 2.8224 MHz
* The availability of these products may vary by country.
* PlayStation is a registered trademark of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
　 Japan: http://www.jp.playstation.com/
　 US: http://www.us.playstation.com/
　 Europe: http://uk.playstation.com/country-selector/
　 Please check following URL for other countries.
　 http://www.playstation.com/country-selector/
* "DSD Disc Format" is a trademark of Sony Corporation.

A

[zowie]

I don't see any indication that it will author SACD.

There were some new $299 MR-2's on ebay last week.  I took a long look, but what kept me from pulling the trigger, for the time being, was lack of clarity about what one can do to have optimal quality playback in a more ubiquitous format than "DSD discs."

So Korg folks, my question is, what can a prosumer recordist or home audiophile do with DSD files other than play them off a computer, a few Sony's, or convert them into a format such as PCM that we could have recorded in natively?

(Not hating on the format.  Far from it -- a good answer, now or in a future evolution, will be a sale.)

[rjp]

Last time I checked, only pressing plants can make true SACD discs that will play in any SACD player; SACD is as much (if not more) about copy protection and control of distribution (read: locking out the little guy) as it is about audio quality. The players Adam mentioned are playing data discs with DSD files. Seeing as how Sony has a track record of removing functionality from the PS3 with firmware updates, I'm not sure it's worth the effort; there's no guarantee that a PS3 will continue to support DSD data discs, and no recourse for you if it quits doing so after you load your latest game.

You could submit your DSD masters to a pressing plant to make real SACDs, but I'm sure that would cost a small fortune.

[H₂O]

It won't author SACD only DSD Discs (specially formatted DVD-R's).

To do SACD you would need a SACD burner or pressing machine as it is a physically different format then anything in the consumer realm.

You can get a plugin for foobar 2000 as well that converts the DSD stream (as the PS3 does to 24bit 176.4Khz) to the highest format your PC's sound card - So a PS3 is not required.

But the recordings I have made with the MR-1 in DSD IMO are phenomenal and on par with the SD7xx if not slightly better (with the SD running 24 96Khz).

[zowie]

But the recordings I have made with the MR-1 in DSD IMO are phenomenal and on par with the SD7xx if not slightly better (with the SD running 24 96Khz).

Phenomenal when played back how?  As an SACD user I don't doubt that the DSD master sounds great, but what about converted to 24/96 so it can be played in the real world?

[jb63]

I often convert my DSDIFF files to 256kbps MP3s and they still sound great.
Most commonly, they are played 16/44.1 because that's the 'real' world.

I'm not sure what the real question here is, though?

How to burn an SACD or DSD disc?
I realize that I'll sound stupid here, but the Audiogate software is all you need to play a 2-channel recording.
Its not my favorite editing software, for that I mostly use Sound Studio, but with audiogate you can dither down to 24/96 and edit to your hearts content.

What would you use to burn a 24/96 disc?
I cannot really hear the difference between that and the original DSDIFF files I've made, but that's me.

My MR2 arrived today.
$367.50.
I'm not as excited as when I got my 3rd MR1, but I'm excited. In the end of the MR1 era, it became the "buy a replacement because you can't buy a new battery."

I will do some tests and take some pictures soon.
Its the smallest box footprint yet, and for that, me and my tiny workspace sure are happy!

[H₂O]

But the recordings I have made with the MR-1 in DSD IMO are phenomenal and on par with the SD7xx if not slightly better (with the SD running 24 96Khz).

Phenomenal when played back how?  As an SACD user I don't doubt that the DSD master sounds great, but what about converted to 24/96 so it can be played in the real world?

I played them back from the MR-1 and/or Audiogate > Denon AVR-3808

The SD files where played back through Computer > Denon AVR-3808

[aegert]

Sorry for my misspeaks regarding SACD. I have corrected my comments. In the end the recordings are better than on my sd722. The dissemination in audio gate is phenomenal. the one bit files have mor information and are more like analog recordings without the draw backs. Time will tell but I for one am glad my recordings are archived in dff high resolution. In time consumer editing SW should be more readily available. At that point I can produce better standard output. Until then playback from audio gate or my edited 24/96's are better than anything I pull using my 722.

Don't get me wrong I love my 722 and the I/O options but for a bit bucket, size and recoding technology there is not much better than the KORG...

The product manger should be checking in here soon so you will have a direct line to the factory... That for us as users is fantastic... I hope that this all works out well as I know there intensions are very good... We are lucky as users :-)

[RichF]

So Korg folks, my question is, what can a prosumer recordist or home audiophile do with DSD files other than play them off a computer, a few Sony's, or convert them into a format such as PCM that we could have recorded in natively?

Hi Zowie,

This is definitely a good question. As aegert pointed out, DSD discs that AudioGate can author can be played back on Playstations and a few SACD players, but if you're playing back from a computer, you'll always be limited by the weak link in the chain- the computer's audio interface. That being said, our proprietary algorithms do an excellent job (if we do say so ourselves) of dithering DSD audio to multi-bit PCM. As a test, I'd recommend recording the same source material in DSD and in PCM, then using AudioGate to dither the DSD file down to the same resolution you used to record the PCM. An A/B comparison there will hopefully be very telling.

Archiving is another big advantage of DSD. Theoretically, if tomorrow's format of the week is 56-bit 384kHz, you could take your DSD master file and convert down to that spec. It's essentially the same idea as archiving a 2-track tape for later remastering.

Hope this helps,
-Rich

[Colin Liston]

I have recorded a few shows this way. 

mics > V3 > digital out to  bit bucket
               > analog out to MR1

 One was Dickie Betts and another was Nickel Creek, and a few others I can't recall at the moment.  I'd be more than happy to send the files to anyone.

[zowie]

Thank you.
I appreciate the reply.

Hi Zowie,

This is definitely a good question. As aegert pointed out, DSD discs that AudioGate can author can be played back on Playstations and a few SACD players, but if you're playing back from a computer, you'll always be limited by the weak link in the chain- the computer's audio interface. That being said, our proprietary algorithms do an excellent job (if we do say so ourselves) of dithering DSD audio to multi-bit PCM. As a test, I'd recommend recording the same source material in DSD and in PCM, then using AudioGate to dither the DSD file down to the same resolution you used to record the PCM. An A/B comparison there will hopefully be very telling.

Archiving is another big advantage of DSD. Theoretically, if tomorrow's format of the week is 56-bit 384kHz, you could take your DSD master file and convert down to that spec. It's essentially the same idea as archiving a 2-track tape for later remastering.

Hope this helps,
-Rich

[dream]

Theoretically, if tomorrow's format of the week is 56-bit 384kHz, you could take your DSD master file and convert down to that spec. It's essentially the same idea as archiving a 2-track tape for later remastering.
[/quote]

I could do the same with an 8 bit 16kHz PCM file.

[Brian Skalinder]

Theoretically, if tomorrow's format of the week is 56-bit 384kHz, you could take your DSD master file and convert down to that spec. It's essentially the same idea as archiving a 2-track tape for later remastering.

I could do the same with an 8 bit 16kHz PCM file.

No, you couldn't -- you'd have to convert UP to the new spec, both bit-depth and sample rate, from a limited quality master.  And the limited quality master would, well, limit the value of converting up to the new spec.  For example, regardless of the format to which you up-convert, from an 8-bit / 16 kHz PCM master you'd never have more than ~48 dB of dynamic range, or higher than ~8 kHz frequency response.

That said, given my understanding of real-world analog components maxing out at ~21-bits of dynamic range, and human ears not hearing much above 20 kHz (if at all), I'm not sure what good it would do to be able to down-convert from DSD to something higher than 24-bit / 48 kHz (or 96 kHz, assuming this provides better anti-alias filtering).

However, I imagine having the raw DSD file could provide for audible improvements in the down-converted target bit-depth and sample rate due to advances in the process of converting from DSD to PCM.  Likewise, I imagine it's possible to perform higher quality editing in the DSD rather than PCM realm, but it's beyond my very limited knowledge of the formats, software editing algorithms, etc. to even guess at whether or not it might deliver audible improvements.

[dream]

Sure it was meant as a provocative joke. I just ask how much 'real' audio information is there to convert up or down?
Where starts this 'down conversion'? I cannot imagine any audio that could need 56 bit and 384 kHz. So the Korg rep must be joking too.
The question that popped into my head was: what PCM specification is equivalent in Rich's view to be equal in quality to DSD?
You just can name some impressing numbers and tell the audience you're down converting. If DSD can be 'down' converted to 56 bit 384 kHz
in a quality sense and not just as data conversions and manipulations, then it must be better than even this PCM equivalent. This would be then
a bold statement form a rep.

[aegert]

Sure it was meant as a provocative joke. I just ask how much 'real' audio information is there to convert up or down?
Where starts this 'down conversion'? I cannot imagine any audio that could need 56 bit and 384 kHz. So the Korg rep must be joking too.
The question that popped into my head was: what PCM specification is equivalent in Rich's view to be equal in quality to DSD?
You just can name some impressing numbers and tell the audience you're down converting. If DSD can be 'down' converted to 56 bit 384 kHz
in a quality sense and not just as data conversions and manipulations, then it must be better than even this PCM equivalent. This would be then
a bold statement form a rep.

the 1 bit stream is the first step in what most a/d converters do the next step is dissemination where the bits get 'dealt out ' from the single stream to words with a certain bit depth. 16/20/24 bit etc... this process involves Technology. As time moves on this process will get better. Better for 16 24 what ever... Higher Bit depths will start to sound more 'Analog'.  This is the Archival point to DSD. So all of your masters have the longest possible shelf life.

It's flexibility long term in a better sounding format... I would ask KORG to add more editing capabilities to AudioGate: maybe plug ins for Mid Side, Compression, Limiting Which would enable a more polished dsd end product... Then adding a more Itunes like media interface for playback.. At that point I could use the DSD's anywhere in my home listening system. I could use the MR2 as an ipod of sorts too.. :-)

A

[aaronji]

Sure it was meant as a provocative joke. I just ask how much 'real' audio information is there to convert up or down?
Where starts this 'down conversion'? I cannot imagine any audio that could need 56 bit and 384 kHz. So the Korg rep must be joking too.
The question that popped into my head was: what PCM specification is equivalent in Rich's view to be equal in quality to DSD?
You just can name some impressing numbers and tell the audience you're down converting. If DSD can be 'down' converted to 56 bit 384 kHz
in a quality sense and not just as data conversions and manipulations, then it must be better than even this PCM equivalent. This would be then
a bold statement form a rep.

the 1 bit stream is the first step in what most a/d converters do the next step is dissemination where the bits get 'dealt out ' from the single stream to words with a certain bit depth. 16/20/24 bit etc... this process involves Technology. As time moves on this process will get better. Better for 16 24 what ever... Higher Bit depths will start to sound more 'Analog'.  This is the Archival point to DSD. So all of your masters have the longest possible shelf life.

How will higher bit depths "sound more analog"?  PCM at, say, 24/96, already provides more bits than our gear can provide and goes way into ultrasonic territory.  It will take a whole lot of evolution before our ears/hearing (not to mention brain) can detect flaws in that audio...

And, really, why isn't this thread in the Retail Space?

[Gutbucket]

The dissemination in audio gate is phenomenal. the one bit files have mor information and are more like analog recordings without the draw backs..

..but for a bit bucket, size and recoding technology there is not much better than the KORG...

..this process involves Technology. As time moves on this process will get better. Better for 16 24 what ever... Higher Bit depths will start to sound more 'Analog'.  This is the Archival point to DSD. So all of your masters have the longest possible shelf life.

It's flexibility long term in a better sounding format... I would ask KORG to add more editing capabilities to AudioGate: maybe plug ins for Mid Side, Compression, Limiting Which would enable a more polished dsd end product...

Many unsubstantiated claims being made here as well as some outright errors.  I don't mean to quench your personal enthusiasm, but most of this is evangelical marketing hyperbole being presented as fact, some of it simply incorrect.

I’d also feel more comfortable with this thread moved to the Retail Space.

[Brian Skalinder]

And, really, why isn't this thread in the Retail Space?

I suggested placement of this thread here, and the MR2 deal thread in the Retail forum.  The MR2 deal thread is strictly a retail offering, and as such belongs purely in the Retail forum.  This thread represents more of a knowledge sharing / question asking & answering / informational thread about the unit, and therefore I feel it belongs in this forum.

[zowie]

To my ears, DSD sounds slightly different than hi-rez PCM.  I'll leave it to those more knowledgeable about the "Technology" but I think comparing them may be more like asking how far do you have to swim to equal to running a marathon.

When it comes to archiving, yes I want the highest reasonable quality, but I don't necessarily want it in a (seemingly) closed format with limited penetration.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't use DSD to record masters if it produced the best quality, considering costs and convenience, as a 2nd gen PCM.

[aegert]

Deleted to let the thread get back to where it needs to be. Your opportunity to talk to KORG My Opinions deleted..


A 

[hi and lo]

First off, cheers to Aegert and Korg for opening this discussion! Already seeing some great things come from it if MR1 owners can now get some replacement batteries.

However, I think I have to strongly, no, absolutely, agree with Gutbucket. The statement that most clearly rings with me as being an outright error is that a DSD recorder somehow translates to better long-term archival. That might be true in a perfect world and I'm not here to argue the merits of recording and archival formats, but I can definitively say that there is not a single DSD recorder on the market (accessible to tapers) with the same quality of analog mic and line inputs when compared to the best PCM recorders available. Simply put, unless every single piece of analog equipment upstream of the A/D converter is of the absolute highest quality, there is absolutely no benefit in recording to DSD when a linear PCM recorder with superior mic/line inputs and A/D exists. Any quality difference between DSD and 24/48 PCM is trumped exponentially by the preceding analog stages.

There have been a few comps, one fairly recently, pitting DSD recorders against the most well known and regarded A/Ds around. IIRC, most everyone preferred the PCM variants.

[Gutbucket]

I mean no personal animosity and I'm also happy to have any manufacturer posting here to discuss our needs and concerns- that's great!  It's just that this thread seems to play loose muddling factual information with opinions, and muddies the line between product marketing and enthusiastic independant end users.  I'm just raising caution flags for others who might be less discerning and questioning of the claims stated here.

I don't want to get into technical arguments on this, especially about opinion claims that can't be otherwise confirmed by objective testing or industry standard use, but suffice it to say that there are numerous experts who would argue against your claims of superiority of DSD for a number of reasons, inclulding the claim that it is superior for archival use.  The issues are not as simple as you make it out to be.  A big one is doing any editing to the files.  As far as I am aware, all editing outside of simple summing and fades (and even that on most sytems that can handle DSD processing) must be done in PCM format.  If DSD must be converted to PCM to do anything to the content, including simply playing it in many pieces of hardware, where's the advantage? If counting how many more angels fit on the head of the pin with future high res file conversion, there is essentially no difference in storing very high resolution PCM or very high resolution DSD.  There are various technical arguments to be made for the superiority of either over the other, but those have mimimal practical implications.  The practical issues are much more important and seem to me a difficult hurdle for DSD, starting with the issues at the very begining of the signal chain chain hi and lo mentioned, but also at almost every other step: storage, editing, playback, compatibility, etc.

A couple of the factual errors- I was not aware this recorder had a digital input? If it doesn't calling it a bit bucket is a misnomer.  DSD files do not have the ability to store more information than PCM files, both are ulimately limited by the data-rates of the files.  Higher bit depths do not sound 'more analog', if they did that would be an argument against one bit delta-sigma DSD encoding.  In PCM encoding, higher bit depth provides a format in which a larger range of possible signal levels can be stored.  It does not increase the resolution of information within the range covered by a lower bit depth. I won't begin to get into the claims about sounding closer to analog or audio quality, especially if the basics of digital audio are misunderstood.  The mathmatics behind sampling theorem are 100 years old, proven and beyond argument.  There are engineering tradeoffs made in it's application, but the mathmatics are beyond dispute.

These are good recorders that work well for many users here and help them to make great recordings.  That's the most important thing and I don't mean to detract from that, but they'll do that just as well without the hyperbole. 

Thanks for opening the dialog and bringing Korg onboard!

[aaronji]

In addition to the points raised by hi and lo and Gutbucket, I think it is also useful to consider the limitations of our hearing.  24-bit audio has a dynamic range of ~ 144 dB, while hearing has a dynamic range of ~ 140 dB (and that's under ideal circumstances).  Sampling at 96 kHz can reproduce frequencies up to 48 kHz, while hearing maxes out at around 20 kHz.  Even if you account for uncanny hearing or bandwidth required for filtering or the like, 24/96 will amply cover the range of what we can actually hear...I have yet to hear a compelling argument for why DSD would improve things in the audible range.

By the way, thanks, Adam, for setting this up!  Don't interpret natural (and, in my opinion, justified) criticism as "putting a target on your back"...It's a generally skeptical bunch here...

And, really, why isn't this thread in the Retail Space?

I suggested placement of this thread here, and the MR2 deal thread in the Retail forum.  The MR2 deal thread is strictly a retail offering, and as such belongs purely in the Retail forum.  This thread represents more of a knowledge sharing / question asking & answering / informational thread about the unit, and therefore I feel it belongs in this forum.

Fair enough; thanks for the explanation.

[RichF]

I was not aware this recorder had a digital input? If it doesn't calling it a bit bucket is a misnomer.

Just to clarify, the MR2 doesn't have a digital input. The rackmountable MR-2000S does include S/PDIF I/O, which is used primarily for multi-bit PCM formats, and for syncing multiple units together. With the MR2, you're either recording from the built-in mics or the line in.

Thanks,
-Rich

[Gutbucket]

Thanks for the clarification Rich... and for helping us out here.  Welcome to the forum.

[H₂O]

I think to say DSD is equivalent to 2 track analog master tape is an inaccurate statement as we are not referencing the type of DSD being involved.

There are many ways to represent audio in the digital realm with the primary 2 formats is multibit 2 dimensional (parallel) format as with PCM and a single bit or 1 dimensional (serial) format as with PDM/PWM (or DSD).

To compare the two you also need to understand modern AD topologies.  Most modern AD designs use two or more stages to generate a digital signal from the with the first stage being either a 1-bit serial modulation stage (PDM/PWM) or a multibit (2-4 bits for example) stage.

the V3 and MR-1 for example use Burr-Brown AD that has a 1 bit initial stage.  The 7xx series has a multibit initial stage

With DSD the next stages are not needed so the initial digital stream is preserved.  Thus less processing.

It is important to note that 1 bit PDM/PWM does require noise shaping up to a certain frequency (4-8x higher than the MR-1000) - but keep in mind most AD's that result in a 24 bit PCM will also have this noise shaping in the pipeline.

Go look up Delta Sigma Modulation on wikipedia to learn more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-sigma_modulation

[ArchivalAudio]

Hey
Please feel free to use this forum to ask any and all questions about teh Korg offer or Korg Products for recording in this thread.

The MR-2 Promotional 30% off thread is located here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153691.0

The marketing product managers will be checking in here to communicate and answer your questions.

The MR2 is a great product that will give you great pulls and enable you to go from 1bit to 24 or 16 with ease. It will also facilitate 1 bit dsd discs playable in some players and systems which enables production of your recordings so you can here them as never before!

I hope this becomes a great partnership for Korg and TS!

aegert (adam)

Adam,

thank you so much for passing this special deal on to the TS community!
This certainly makes it very tempting... I know there are already a bunch of users out there I hope that some will chime in with real world experience.

--Ian

[boyacrobat]

on a side note

i did some dsd rec last night an mr1
discovered left ch lost on headpone out only
also has weird static noise on left hp ch
line out to head phones works ok but not as loud
thats normal

question is where best to buy replacment unit mr2
the battery and now left ch prob sounds like a good reason
to upgrade to mr2

looking for new one shipped to melb oz
best price would be ??

but first to confirm this
is it true on 2 aa bat you can get 6 hrs rec time
that is awsome if true

thats the only question i have the batt

i love the dsd realm and want to remain there without power dramas
maby mr2 can deliver me a smile on this area

its well overdue


g

 

[jb63]

OK, so my new MR2 is sitting on my desk.
I like it.
The MR1 was nice, but I like the MR2 as well.

I'll put up a few pictures and ask a few questions.
Let's just see... one nice new thing is the memory card slot, which has no cover.
It took me 13 seconds to swap cards and be running again.

Also, no case this time, so get ready to get it all sticky with tape.

:-)

[jb63]

Now onto the tricky part.
I hope the pictures illustrate my point.

Its my first question directly to RichF, and don't let it get you down.

There are a lot more menu items to delve into, and I'm sure they're relatively well-thought out for the recording composer.
(things like including a tuner)
but it will take me a while to read and experiment with all of them.

The MR1 was a really simple recorder. It looked great on the face, had the only buttons you needed, and a good hold switch.
The MR2 will have a lot more uses, the main one being the internal mikes.
I know that everyone on this board says they'll never use them, but I am always, ALWAYS somewhere where the interview takes place without all my gear.
Either I've already torn down and the band is having drinks at the bar and I get pulled aside and I get a million questions I would love to record, or my daughter just decides its time to sing Christmas Songs in May, and I need something quick & dirty that's stereo (ie: not a phone) and that's where the built-ins come in.

I have a PMD620 for this now, and hope the MR2 will eliminate that from the bag.

So here comes my built in mic question:

There is a grid along the top, with the mics encased within, that allows them to rotate 180° so that they can (I imagine) point towards the front of the recorder, or rotate all the way to the back of the recorder. I imagine so that it fits in a breast pocket, with the faceplate facing either way.

The first 2 images are the internal mic dial as far as it will go in one direction. The mics sit on a small slab within the cage and it corresponds to the picture of the mic on the dial.
All the way forward lines them pointing straight up.

The 3rd image is where the questionable content begins.
After turning as far as I can go clockwise and getting straight up, the only other option is counter-clockwise, where I can now point the internal mikes down into the gear of the MR2.
Not very useful.
I can then continue to the 4th image to point the mics in this useless position.
So while I CAN rotate them, I can't really utilize the 180° path I should have.
Do I have a manufacturing flaw, or are they all this way?
Can I open it up and fix it myself-- it can't be all that difficult-- or do I have to spend further money sending it back and all that?

Finally, what exactly is the mic that is place in here, and what kind of power is it getting?

The last picture is the mics pointing at you through the screen.

Thanks!

[F.O.Bean]

I wish they would have taken out the internal mics[which prob sound like shit anyway] and just made it smaller

[jb63]

Seems like here's the place to put together the wishlist.

;-)

If all the space used for the internals was used for a digital in, I don't think they'd have sold batches and batches more of these, but they would have sold US a lot more.
But we were really only interested when they went below $400.

I really like having the internals, though, even though that is wasted real estate most of the time. If those were NON-ROTATEABLE, like the M10, and took up the top corners, then all the space inbetween were the COAX digi-in (that's right, right on top like a cyclops, this would be the perfect recorder.

I still haven't road tested it, though, just waiting to find out if these mics mean I have to return it for a swap.

[boyacrobat]

can someone confirm rec times on aa batt

g

[H₂O]

someone posted on a different thread the got over 6 hours record time on a higher mAh rechargable set of AA's with the MR-2

[RichF]

Hi jb63,

Sorry, I tried to reply to the thread before and for some reason it didn't go through.

It looks like your MR2 is working just fine. The mic is actually supposed to rotate 210 degrees, and when it's in the 8 o'clock position (fully counter-clockwise), it's pointed mostly towards the front, slanted slilghtly downwards.

This position would be ideal if you want to place the MR2 face-up on a table in front of you and record yourself speaking, while still being able to read the display.

Hope this helps,
-Rich

[jb63]

Hi jb63,

It looks like your MR2 is working just fine. The mic is actually supposed to rotate 210 degrees, and when it's in the 8 o'clock position (fully counter-clockwise), it's pointed mostly towards the front, slanted slilghtly downwards.

Hi Rich.
Somehow I don't think you understand what I was explaining with the pictures, because it is clearly NOT doing that.

;-)

Please look at the 3 side-view figures in my post above again.
Assume it is rotating counter-clockwise from the first picture to the last, and the mic is actually placed exactly as it is pictured on the dial. Yes, it appears that the total arc is about 210° or so, (I'd say slightly less, and you can measure well enough with the pictures) BUT its rotation seems to be off. One cannot utilize the grid in the back at all, and all of the angles I can set this at are useless except for about 45° between the "mic up" picture and the "mic down" one.

I think its quite clear that mics should do this:
Rotate 45° clockwise from the "mic up" picture, (they don't, that's as far as wheel turns) and stop about 45° BEFORE they rotate counter-clockwise to the "mic too far" picture.

I'd still like to know what kind mics are in it, as well.

Thanks,

j

[drchen]

Could someone from KORG tell me how long the special offer on MR2s will last(roughly)?

thanks!

[RichF]

Hi jb63,

Regarding the kind of mic, I'm sorry but we don't publicize our individual component sources.

Regarding the orientation, I think I see the problem. The gray line on the dial shows where the mics are facing. In your picture labeled "mics straight up" I see that the capsules are actually pointing towards the rear of the MR2, assuming we're looking at it from the front. In the picture labeled "mic up," it's pointing to the rear, and in the picture labeled "mic down," the mics are facing the viewer. So, the accurately-named "mics toward viewer" pic should match the "mic down" pic.

That little mic pictured on the dial is likely the culprit here. On a tabletop cardioid vocal mic similar to the one pictured, when it's upright, the capsule is pointing to one side. So when you see the mic standing straight up on its base, the gray line is pointing to the rear of the MR2, and that's where the capsules are facing.

Hope this helps,
-Rich

[jb63]

Hi jb63,

That little mic pictured on the dial is likely the culprit here. On a tabletop cardioid vocal mic similar to the one pictured, when it's upright, the capsule is pointing to one side. So when you see the mic standing straight up on its base, the gray line is pointing to the rear of the MR2, and that's where the capsules are facing.

Yes!
So the internal mics are cards, and the caps are not pointing straight up as in the picture on side.
That's confusing for cards, but I think it will make sense to anyone reading.

Thanks! That is what I needed to know!

Taking it out for a spin now, more later.

[RichF]

Great news, enjoy!

-Rich

[jb63]

So I just got 6 hours & 36 mins recording overnight in MP3 mode with 2 Sanyo Enloop batteries that I took out of my camera after being in there who-knows-how-long.
I imagine MP3 takes less of a drain than DSDIFF.

Also, I have thoroughly tested the internal mics now.
They are actually pretty good at "songcatching" and speech, which is what I want them for.

In the pictures on the scroll wheel to adjust them, the long raised notch that you use to turn the wheel is actually the indicator of where the caps point.
I don't know how I didn't get that.

On an un-related note, I went out of my way to go to the not-so-close-but-nearest Guitar Center and took the battery part number for my MR-1 and they told me they could not help me.
They said it had been discontinued and i could not get parts.

Is there a way we can get battery replacements through some kind of online source?

Thanks!

back to work,

jb

[H₂O]

Nice!!!

[jb63]

More MR2 stats:
Took it out last night and ran it 1:1 against the MR1.

DSDIFF files burn the battery down faster than the MP3 recording did.
I got a 2hr20min tape, then listened to about 20mins of it in the car before the batteries died.
Now these were older Enloops, so I'll report back after I have new ones.

I ran it along with an M10 & a PMD620.

The level adjusting on the MR1 & the M10 is really the best, but the Menu system on the M10 is awful, and so is the micro SD. Yuck.
I'll get used to the menu on the MR2, but the MR1 was a better menu/control system for live recording.

Being able to easily swap batteries on the MR2 pretty much makes the battery test moot, until I come across another band that likes to play for 3 hours straight.

Mr1s are starting to show up on ebay and I'm tempted to just keep buying those till they die off. Of course you never know how long the battery will last...

Gee, I wish I could get a battery replacement for the ones I have.

;-)

[twister]

Rich,
Can this promotion be offered on the MR2000? as well?
Bill

I was not aware this recorder had a digital input? If it doesn't calling it a bit bucket is a misnomer.

Just to clarify, the MR2 doesn't have a digital input. The rackmountable MR-2000S does include S/PDIF I/O, which is used primarily for multi-bit PCM formats, and for syncing multiple units together. With the MR2, you're either recording from the built-in mics or the line in.

Thanks,
-Rich

[RichF]

Hi jb63,

Your nearest Korg-authorized service center should be able to order and install the battery for you. The part number is 500520002900.  As of this post, we do have them in stock. You can use the dealer locator at http://www.korg.com/Dealers to find the nearest service center.

Thanks,
-Rich

[RichF]

Rich,
Can this promotion be offered on the MR2000? as well?
Bill

Sorry Bill, this promo is limited to the MR2.

[Colin Liston]

Hi jb63,

Your nearest Korg-authorized service center should be able to order and install the battery for you. The part number is 500520002900.  As of this post, we do have them in stock. You can use the dealer locator at http://www.korg.com/Dealers to find the nearest service center.

Thanks,
-Rich

They should but I've talked to two places and they won't install a battery.

[RichF]

Hi Colin,

Are you in the USA? Which service centers have you tried?

Thanks,
-Rich

[RTD]

Hi Colin,

Are you in the USA? Which service centers have you tried?

Thanks,
-Rich

Hi Rich,
where to go in Germany (I´m right now there)?

[Colin Liston]

Hi Colin,

Are you in the USA? Which service centers have you tried?

Thanks,
-Rich

I am just outside Jacksonville, FL.  I've tried Guitar Center and George's Music.

[tedyun]

I think Guitar Center and George's are dealers. You might have to check the service centers (it's under a different tab on the Dealer Locator page link)

Hi Colin,

Are you in the USA? Which service centers have you tried?

Thanks,
-Rich

I am just outside Jacksonville, FL.  I've tried Guitar Center and George's Music.

[twister]

still a sweet deal ! thank you

Rich,
Can this promotion be offered on the MR2000? as well?
Bill

Sorry Bill, this promo is limited to the MR2.

[drchen]

Korg site nor reponds that the MR-2 coupon code ("1BIT") for the TS discount has expired. Does anyone know if the MR-2 deal is available through another means?