Topic: Setting up a new DR 680- the things to know

[ShawnF]

im aiming for 60% aud and 40% board would I be better running SBD>UA5>SPDIF instead? or use channels 3+4

panning will give me that ratio? I know channel level will.

and im a little confused the way the tracks are labeled once recorded but thats a learning curve

If you use SPDIF, you can't monitor that signal and the mic signal at the same time. I don't think that it will even record as part of the mix channel, so if you go that route, definitely plan on mixing in post.

[Gutbucket]

I'd just use 3&4 (or whatever analog input pair you like) and skip the UA5 >digital input.  Especially the first few times until you are comfortable with the recorder. Use the UA5 >SPDIF input when you need more than just the 6 analog input channels.

The pan control pans each mono-track in the stereo mix, you'll probably want to hard pan the mics Left and Right.. same for a stereo board feed.  If the board feed is bad on one channel or unbalanced, you could pan the good channel to center or adjust balance.

The level contol adjusts the mix ratio (it's independant of rec trim) by setting the output level of each channel to the stereo mix buss.

[chinariderstl]

Marking thread.

[MULETAPER]

its a very small room maybe 200+ small stage and a SMALL SBD. I dont think this will be an issue. recordings Ill sync,so that wont be an issue. I do understand your delay theory if your wayyyy back in a room and recording a sbd as well. Most of the SBD stuff ive done in the past is usually in small venues.

Gutbucket I will heed to your advise,it sounds dead on what my thoughts were at first. Ill play around during soundcheck to make sure it right.

[Gutbucket]

If you use SPDIF, you can't monitor that signal and the mic signal at the same time.

Yes you can do this.  See the Note in my earlier post above.

I don't think that it will even record as part of the mix channel, so if you go that route, definitely plan on mixing in post.

Not sure about this one..
You can record the digital input to either the stereo channel or to 5/6.
I always have recorded the digital input to the stereo channel.  In that case you cannot also record an internal stereo mixdown.
It might be possible to record a digital input to 5/6 and do an internal stereo mixdown to the stereo channel. But I've never tried it.

[MULETAPER]

>>>>Marking thread

that why I start this,its extremely helpful.

sometimes whats in the manual is not how it works in the field. and running any new unit gives ya the gitters... its nature.

but for useful info, and a quick resource. Not just for me,but those who go thru all this down the line.

I can see a surge of dr680 users coming. best bang for the buck IMHO!! the pre's sound as good as my Oade-ACM 661,maybe cleaner.

if anyone else has issues they have encountered,please write about them here.Thats why I started this yes, to help me set it up. but for future reference for those who get new units.. this place is a well full of knowledge. we might as well share it.

sully, greenfeild tomorrow?

[ShawnF]

If you use SPDIF, you can't monitor that signal and the mic signal at the same time.

Yes you can do this.  See the Note in my earlier post above.

I don't think that it will even record as part of the mix channel, so if you go that route, definitely plan on mixing in post.

Not sure about this one..
You can record the digital input to either the stereo channel or to 5/6.
I always have recorded the digital input to the stereo channel.  In that case you cannot also record an internal stereo mixdown.
It might be possible to record a digital input to 5/6 and do an internal stereo mixdown to the stereo channel. But I've never tried it.

I think we're actually in agreement about the monitoring--you can't monitor both the SPDIF and analog signals at the same time (that is, simultaneously).  You have to switch between MIX MON and DIN MON, as you mentioned.

You can indeed record a SPDIF signal to 5/6 and a stereo mixdown, but my point was that the SPDIF signal won't be part of the mixdown--it's just the analog channels.  At least, I'm pretty certain that's the case.

[Gutbucket]

I think we're actually in agreement about the monitoring--you can't monitor both the SPDIF and analog signals at the same time (that is, simultaneously).  You have to switch between MIX MON and DIN MON, as you mentioned.

If you mean you cannot monitor the SPDIF input and the stereo mix channel levels at the same time, your are correct.  However you can monitor the 6 individual analog inputs and the SPDIF input at the same time when set to DIN MON.

You can indeed record a SPDIF signal to 5/6 and a stereo mixdown, but my point was that the SPDIF signal won't be part of the mixdown--it's just the analog channels.  At least, I'm pretty certain that's the case.

Never tried that so I don't know.  But if you are able to record record SPDIF to 5/6 along with a simultaneous analog stereo mixdown of the other 4 channels, I'd be suprised that you can't see levels for all those things at the same time.  Does it not show SPDIF input levels sent to 5/6 on the 5/6 meters?  If not, and SPDIF input levels are always displayed on the stereo meter regardless of which channels SPDIF is selected to record to, then I understand why both could not be monitored simultaneously.  However even if that is indeed the case, you should be able to switch between showing SPDIF 5/6 levels and showing the stereomix levels by going to the quick menu and switching from DIN MON to MIX MON while recording, you just wouldn't see both at the same time.

I'll have to play around with that sometime.

I don't mean to beat this into the ground, just trying to clarify.  Muletaper, don't let us confuse you with these arcane details which are unimportant to getting started with this recorder!

[achalsey]

Okay mine just showed up and did not come with a manual.

"mix trim," "mix pan," and "rec trim."  Do I want to pan the left full left, and right full right?  I don't think I want to but will leave that up for advise.  Mix level, what is that?  1/2 arrived at 75, 3/4 at 0.  Thats all I'm using for now so whats the deal?  Rec trim I put everything to 0.

[DATPAT]

If your doing a board feed and running mic's from that location you just need to adjust the delay time on your audience. It's worth doing and getting the hang of it cause if you do many matrix's you'll have to know how to do it. What i do is load all 4 channels in your daw. I have used wavelab or soundforge. I look for a section where there isn't any music just a sharp transient such as a drum or a single note that was played I'll then zoom in and see exactly how many ms difference between the 2 sources and then i'll go to the beginning of the recording and cut out that exact amount of time from the audience. As long as the two recording are made from the same recorder(clock) (which you are) then you only need to do it that one time at the beginning. If your using recordings from different decks it gets trickly because you'll generally have to do the same thing at the beginning of every song or every other song depending on how much drift there is. The rules of thumb are this:The casaul listener can't notice anything less than 20 ms of delay, and you generally get about .9ms of delay per foot. So for example, if your in a small club and the board is 40 ft back from the stage your audience source from the board will have about a 36ms delay from the board source. It's really not that hard to correct and as i said if you go to a small club frequently that gives the board access freeley it's a good thing to be comfortable with manually syncing your sources.

 

im going to be running 1+2 with MC930's

I will be running sbd in to Line on 3+4

and have it set up to record mix.  sounds right...

Sounds like you're in good shape.  Just a thought, though--if your mics are back near the soundboard, is there going to be a large time lag between the sbd patch and the mics that would render recording the mix useless?  I mean, you can still monitor the mix even if you don't record it (no SPDIF in for this gig, it sounds like), and if you know in advance it's not going to be usable, why record it?  Of course, if you are close enough to the stage so the time lag isn't a problem, or even think it might be usable, go for it.  I find I almost always get better mixes in post, though--just hard to dial it in precisely during the performance when you're in the same room. 

Panning just controls left/right placement in the stereo image.  If you're concerned about sbd/mic ratio in the mix channel recording, it's the "MIX LEVEL" button on the front that you want.

Good Luck

[Chuck]

Just to add to what DATPAT said...

Also check to make sure the phase is the same. Sometimes the phase of the SBD feed is 180 degrees different than the phase of the AUD recording. That's easy to spot as one WAV will go up and the other will go down when aligned properly.

[achalsey]

Just to add to what DATPAT said...

Also check to make sure the phase is the same. Sometimes the phase of the SBD feed is 180 degrees different than the phase of the AUD recording. That's easy to spot as one WAV will go up and the other will go down when aligned properly.

Okay, this is off topic, but I do a lot of sbd/aud mixes and this seems to happen a lot and I've never corrected it/didn't know it was anything out of the ordinary.  To fix you just invert one of the sources in post?

[Chuck]

Just to add to what DATPAT said...

Also check to make sure the phase is the same. Sometimes the phase of the SBD feed is 180 degrees different than the phase of the AUD recording. That's easy to spot as one WAV will go up and the other will go down when aligned properly.

Okay, this is off topic, but I do a lot of sbd/aud mixes and this seems to happen a lot and I've never corrected it/didn't know it was anything out of the ordinary.  To fix you just invert one of the sources in post?

Yeah, just invert phase on the SBD feed in post. I change the SBD tracks, because I know the phase of my mics are correct.

[kirk97132]

As for panning on the deck.  I don't gang channels so I then record in mono.  I then do any panning in post.  I also would just forget about any kind of 60/40  25/75 90/10 ratio ideas.  Just mix in post to taste.  You won't really be making any serious mixdown to your stereo track, if you record that at all IMHO.  most peeps that do that do it as a lets see how this stuff works or as a quick down and dirty first impression mix.  But they do not try to do that as a final mix.  That's the reason and beauty of having those tracks to take home and get it JUST RIGHT.  Otherwise you could just be using your UA-5 and doing on the fly matrix's without spending the money on a 680.  Depending on how hot a mic sounds or whether a SBD is sending you consumer or professional line levels are all going to affect how "loud" things sound.  Not to mention that all SBD feeds are not equal.  Might be the SBD feed has only vocals since the place is small and the band is plenty loud on there own.  Or like a lot of feeds in mid sized rooms you'll find the vocals WAY out in front of the instruments.  Remember the sound guy/girl is mixing for the room, not to give your board feed a nice even sound.  And if you have ever tried to mix  a matrix on the fly at a show you'll know how hard it is to accurately hear your mix in the headphones plus the 680 does not have a lot of gain on the headphones anyway.  And speaking of matrixing and mixing mic & sbd.  Anything past 5-6 feet and you really should sync the tracks.  Even when I run mics at stage lip unless it's a really shallow stage I can zoom in and see the two sources are not perfectly aligned.  Even syncing that tiny little difference will help yield a mix that is crisper and better sounding.  I"d suggest record track mono, mix in post to taste.  Record an on the fly mix for fun but not as a final product.  Repeat until you can run your deck without a flashlight in the dark

[kirk97132]

Just to add to what DATPAT said...

Also check to make sure the phase is the same. Sometimes the phase of the SBD feed is 180 degrees different than the phase of the AUD recording. That's easy to spot as one WAV will go up and the other will go down when aligned properly.

Okay, this is off topic, but I do a lot of sbd/aud mixes and this seems to happen a lot and I've never corrected it/didn't know it was anything out of the ordinary.  To fix you just invert one of the sources in post?

Yeah, just invert phase on the SBD feed in post. I change the SBD tracks, because I know the phase of my mics are correct.

Adobe Audition actually has a phase meter that you can look at and see if something is out of phase.  I use it all the time when mixing.  And as you get deeper into multitrack recording you'll find there are times you want to run things out of phase to make it sound better.  IE: mic'ing top and bottom of a snare drum or doing the top and bottom of a Leslie cabinet.  But we are getting a little off topic now