Topic: Best 24 bit "bit bucket?"

[Lexus507]

If I run a digi-mod UA5...what would be the best option to dump the data to in 24 bit? I know the iRiver and JB3 are 16 bit. What else that has optical or digital in is 24 bit besides the microtrack? and if so how much is it. Is there anything that would be around the price of an iRiver that can actually do 24 bit??

[Javier Cinakowski]

I don't think there is, but I hope so...

[Brian Skalinder]

AFAIK, the MT2496 is the lowest priced 24-bit bit-bucket available.

[kindms]

marantz 671
tascam HD-P2
Micrtrack2496
SD722
SD744t
SD702

these are the only 24 bit buckets I know of that have digital inputs under $4000 the SD744t might be more than 4k tho. there are others much more expensive as well

Edited to Add: none of the above are in the Iriver price range. theMT2496 is the closest which was previously mentioned

[OFOTD]

marantz 671
tascam HD-P2
Micrtrack2496
SD722
SD744t
SD702

these are the only 24 bit buckets I know of that have digital inputs under $4000 the SD744t might be more than 4k tho. there are others much more expensive as well

Edited to Add: none of the above are in the Iriver price range. theMT2496 is the closest which was previously mentioned

R4
R4 Pro

[bgalizio]

marantz 671
tascam HD-P2
Micrtrack2496
SD722
SD744t
SD702

these are the only 24 bit buckets I know of that have digital inputs under $4000 the SD744t might be more than 4k tho. there are others much more expensive as well

Edited to Add: none of the above are in the Iriver price range. theMT2496 is the closest which was previously mentioned

R4
R4 Pro

Well... the R-4 resamples the digi-in, correct? The R-4 Pro should still be fine.

[OOK]

In my opinion the HDP2 is the best hands down......but I am a little bias.  I can record at any bit rate without issue, auto split at user set 1/2 gig( don't quote me), 1 gig, 1.5gig or 2gig.  Very easy to use, power, set up blau blau blau.....with 8gig cards being cheap and large cards starting to come out it is a no brainer...  peace JK

[Nick's Picks]

and why is it better than the marantz?
its bigger...I know that.

[OOK]

and why is it better than the marantz?
its bigger...I know that.

Honestly....Its the only bucket that came out right the first time right out of the box....When all the other units hit the market there always seemed to be something, some glitch.  Granted Marantz now does seemless splits, can't remember if that was due to a firm wire update, the pres sucked unless mod'd.  But so does the Tascam, but I think they are a little better in the tascam.  But we are just talking a bit bucket though . The micro tracker I won't even go there, but that now seems stable, excepted true seemless splits.  SD's 722 is out of reach for most...But that to had issues when it first started, but its now the cream of the crop...  In my opion tascam got it right the first time.  again its just my opinion, that and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee.  T+ for playing devils advocate. JK.

[Brian Skalinder]

the only feature set advantage i can see that the p2 has over the 671 is it's ability to sync to another adc.

That's the big reason I'm going with one.  I also didn't consider the 671 as I've seen numerous reports of having to send the 671 back to Marantz for firmware updates.  Ship back to Marantz?  For a firmware upgrade?  PITA, no thanks.  Though perhaps that's no longer required.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

When I was shopping P2 vs. 671, I decided on the PS mainly because of the nicer view-screen.

As for sound, I can't comment.  I figured both from Oade would satisfy my listening needs...

As for "best", the MT2496 is still the cheapest with SPDIF.  The R09 would seem the "best" is you wanted an inexpensive 24 bit recorder, though it is only analog-in.

The P2 and 671 are the least expensive of the "pro" models.

And of course, you have the 7xx series etc...

"Best" is a relative term.  I was hoping to do UA5>MT2496 but decided on P2 instead.  The all-in-one solution of the P2 appealed to me more...

Terry

 

[pmonk66]

Best in the sense what you can afford (or willing to pay).

[thegreatgumbino]

the only feature set advantage i can see that the p2 has over the 671 is it's ability to sync to another adc.

That's the big reason I'm going with one.

Same here.  Although the other thing that sold me on the P2 is the fact that when going digital in, the P2 can do 24/96 while the 671 can only do 24/48.

Edit: to clarify that 24/96 via digital is possible on the 671.

[Nick's Picks]

i didn't know that...
I suppose that would make it the superior bucket

[johnw]

the only feature set advantage i can see that the p2 has over the 671 is it's ability to sync to another adc.

That's the big reason I'm going with one.

Same here.  Although the other thing that sold me on the P2 is the fact that when going digital in, the P2 can do 24/96 while the 671 can only do 24/48.

Interesting - it's advertised as 24/96 capable.

[johnw]

the only feature set advantage i can see that the p2 has over the 671 is it's ability to sync to another adc.

That's the big reason I'm going with one.

Same here.  Although the other thing that sold me on the P2 is the fact that when going digital in, the P2 can do 24/96 while the 671 can only do 24/48.

Interesting - it's advertised as 24/96 capable but I guess that's only analog in?

[thegreatgumbino]

Analog in only is what I remember.  I can't remember where I found that, but it was the selling point for me.

[gratefulphish]

As far as a pure "bit bucket", the MT 24/96 is the cheapest by far, will get the job done, seems to be pretty stable now, and the only somwhat significant "drawback" is having to manually split the files at 2Gb mark.  The other cheaper decks, like the R-09 won't take the digi in, and just about everything else that has been discussed is really a standalone deck, rather than just a "bit bucket."  I have long wondered why a lot of people, including me sometimes, buy much more expensive machines, just for bucket purposes.  But other times, I just run the mics>deck, and that obviously makes the difference.  If you are only using it as a bucket, I would try the MT first, because even if you decide for some reason that you don't like it, you have not invested a lot, can get most/all of your money back by reselling it, and in the meantime, it is super small, easily stealthable, and very reasonably priced, especially if you pick up a used one in the Yard Sale.

[thegreatgumbino]

Same here.  Although the other thing that sold me on the P2 is the fact that when going digital in, the P2 can do 24/96 while the 671 can only do 24/48.

false.  the 671 can do 24/96 via its analog as well as its digital inputs.

http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=3689&Tab=Data+Sheet

Interesting.  When I was deciding on my purchase I read specific info that stated this wasn't the case.  Glad to see that it does 24/96.  Thanks for the link, Tim.

[Jimna]

hijack of the thread:

hey gumbino, how do you like the v3> MT 24/96 so far?  obviously you upgrading, but over all yea or nea?

would you recommend it to a budget burdened taper?

[thegreatgumbino]

hijack of the thread:

hey gumbino, how do you like the v3> MT 24/96 so far?  obviously you upgrading, but over all yea or nea?

would you recommend it to a budget burdened taper?

It's not bad, but definitely in a different class than running the 722 (I down sized).  For the money, I don't know that you can beat it.  Especially since CF media is getting so cheap as well as a the used MT market.  Add on top of that it takes up little to no room in the bag.

[Jimna]

hijack of the thread:

hey gumbino, how do you like the v3> MT 24/96 so far?  obviously you upgrading, but over all yea or nea?

would you recommend it to a budget burdened taper?

It's not bad, but definitely in a different class than running the 722 (I down sized).  For the money, I don't know that you can beat it.  Especially since CF media is getting so cheap as well as a the used MT market.  Add on top of that it takes up little to no room in the bag.

so how easily solved is the 2 gig file split problem?  also what type of battery solution are folks using, and whats the pros and cons to that consitering the internal battery?  also, has anyone pushed the battery life when recording on just the internal lion batt? 

any other real down sides to the MT?  im looking for a less costly bit bucket and want no surprises down the line. 

thanks for the insight

[willndmb]

imo there is no reason to buy anything other then a MT for a bitbucket
the others are a hell of a lot nicer but if you are n ot going to use the features
ie an all in one box
then its not worth it imo

if you were going to sell the ua5 then i would say i like the hdp2

[Nick's Picks]

imo there is no reason to buy anything other then a MT for a bitbucket

unless you know you will be recording anything longer than 2 hours...and want to do it at 24bit.  Let alone, 24/96.

[JasonSobel]

well, as long as this thread has some useful feature comparisons between the Tascam HD-P2 and the Marantz PMD-671, I thought I'd pop in and clear up a few things...

and why is it (i.e. HD-P2) better than the marantz?
its bigger...I know that.

actually, I wouldn't say that the HD-P2 is bigger than the PMD-671
from this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,62271.0.html

Marantz PMD-671 = 10.4" x 7.3" x 2"
Tascam HD-P2 = 9.6" x 7.4" x 2.36"

so, they're very similar in size.  the PMD-671 is nearly an inch wider, while the HD-P2 is only slightly taller and only slightly thicker.  I guess it all depends on which dimension is most important to you.

Same here.  Although the other thing that sold me on the P2 is the fact that when going digital in, the P2 can do 24/96 while the 671 can only do 24/48.

false.  the 671 can do 24/96 via its analog as well as its digital inputs.

http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=3689&Tab=Data+Sheet

yes, the PMD-671 does 24/96, but it can not do 24/192.  The HD-P2 can go to 24/192.  however, I don't think the ability to record at 24/192 is a major factor for most people.  that sure would eat up a lot of storage space.  but, on the other hand, with 16 GB flash cards getting cheaper (already under $300), 24/192 certainly is a possibility for a typical show.

personally, I used to own a Microtrack to use as a bit bucket.  had it for about 9 months.  and then sold it and bought an HD-P2, also to use solely as a bit bucket.  the seamless splits are really something I need.  and it has been rock solid as a recorder.  certainly more than the MT was at the time, although several firmware updates have become available since I sold the MT, and I hear it's pretty stable now too.

[AlexG]

I know it was mentioned here before but the ability to clock sync on the HD-P2 is awesome.  Right now I have a matrix rig that works like this

C4 Mics > UA-5 > Toslink > iRiver H120
                  |
                  v
              S/PDIF (Clock Source)
                  |
                  v
SBD Line > HD-P2

It just lines up and you are done, obviously this rig will not work for 24 bit but that could be easily addressed by replacing the iRiver with another 24bit "bit bucket"  The more I use my HD-P2 the more I realize how well thought out it is.  I also like the seamless power switch it provides, I can run Firewire Power, AC Power, or Battery power and switch between them on the fly and the thing just keeps running.  My biggest complaint with it is the buttons on the top are hard to use if they are in a bag. 

[Javier Cinakowski]

wow, AlexG that set up is sweet.  T+

[pmonk66]

The most superior bit bucket is the one you are using until you can afford something better!

[Jimna]

I know it was mentioned here before but the ability to clock sync on the HD-P2 is awesome.  Right now I have a matrix rig that works like this

C4 Mics > UA-5 > Toslink > iRiver H120
                  |
                  v
              S/PDIF (Clock Source)
                  |
                  v
SBD Line > HD-P2

It just lines up and you are done, obviously this rig will not work for 24 bit but that could be easily addressed by replacing the iRiver with another 24bit "bit bucket"  The more I use my HD-P2 the more I realize how well thought out it is.  I also like the seamless power switch it provides, I can run Firewire Power, AC Power, or Battery power and switch between them on the fly and the thing just keeps running.  My biggest complaint with it is the buttons on the top are hard to use if they are in a bag. 

yea, that effing rocks dude.  nice setup fo sho!! Big +T!  it so easy it almost takes the sport of of syncing track by track like ive been doing it..... 

who needs sport anyway.

[rowjimmy]

well, as long as this thread has some useful feature comparisons between the Tascam HD-P2 and the Marantz PMD-671, I thought I'd pop in and clear up a few things...

actually, I wouldn't say that the HD-P2 is bigger than the PMD-671
from this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,62271.0.html

Marantz PMD-671 = 10.4" x 7.3" x 2"
Tascam HD-P2 = 9.6" x 7.4" x 2.36"

so, they're very similar in size.  the PMD-671 is nearly an inch wider, while the HD-P2 is only slightly taller and only slightly thicker.  I guess it all depends on which dimension is most important to you

Because I'm like that... I did the math-
Marantz PMD-671 = 151.84   cubic inches
Tascam HD-P2     = 167.6544 cubic inches

[JasonSobel]

well, as long as this thread has some useful feature comparisons between the Tascam HD-P2 and the Marantz PMD-671, I thought I'd pop in and clear up a few things...

actually, I wouldn't say that the HD-P2 is bigger than the PMD-671
from this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,62271.0.html

Marantz PMD-671 = 10.4" x 7.3" x 2"
Tascam HD-P2 = 9.6" x 7.4" x 2.36"

so, they're very similar in size.  the PMD-671 is nearly an inch wider, while the HD-P2 is only slightly taller and only slightly thicker.  I guess it all depends on which dimension is most important to you

Because I'm like that... I did the math-
Marantz PMD-671 = 151.84   cubic inches
Tascam HD-P2     = 167.6544 cubic inches

nice 
it's that extra 0.36" of thickness that kills it for the HD-P2 

[meatling]

saying the 671 was faulty at launch is simply not true, it's had zero problems since release.

You are mistaken. The first 671s were defective by design: 24-bit samples were written with swapped bytes (3-1-2 instead of 3-2-1) resulting in unusable recordings with atrocious noise.

I wonder how such a flaw could get past quality control in the first place.


m

[sygdwm]

saying the 671 was faulty at launch is simply not true, it's had zero problems since release.

You are mistaken. The first 671s were defective by design: 24-bit samples were written with swapped bytes (3-1-2 instead of 3-2-1) resulting in unusable recordings with atrocious noise.

I wonder how such a flaw could get past quality control in the first place.


m

news to me. i have 2 (1 stock/1 oade mod). both bought as soon as they came available. zero problems with the firmware/hardware on either. ymmv.

[meatling]

The first 671s were defective by design:

news to me. i have 2 (1 stock/1 oade mod). both bought as soon as they came available. zero problems with the firmware/hardware on either.

That's bizarre. I had bought mine in April 2005, and the cause of the defect was crytal clear after examining the .WAV files and verifying the diagnosis by swapping the bytes back. I still can't imagine how this can be anything else but a firmware bug, which would have to affect every single recorder of the series. So, it's a mystery to me how you could receive yours intact.

Anyway, I'm glad that your experiences were more pleasant than mine. After having to deal with what Marantz chose to call "support" at the time, I'm not sure whether I will ever buy any of their products again.

m

[sygdwm]

incidentally, i fried a fuse in the stock unit one month after the warranty ran out by sending it reverse polarity from a rat shack power cord. marantz told me to get fuct. i was pissed for a minute, but i just run it on internal AA's now w/o so much of a hiccup. live and learn. i am considering getting a third fwiw.

[Digital Quality]

If I run a digi-mod UA5...what would be the best option to dump the data to in 24 bit? I know the iRiver and JB3 are 16 bit. What else that has optical or digital in is 24 bit besides the microtrack? and if so how much is it. Is there anything that would be around the price of an iRiver that can actually do 24 bit??

imo, your best option is a pda set up.  you can get one with all the needed components for under $500. 

buy a used "ipaq h2210" off ebay for ~$150 tops     http://tinyurl.com/3c4x3m
buy the pa audio card from core sound for $200       http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-cf/1.php
buy the software from forum member gordon aka "live24/96" for $50   http://www.gidluckmastering.com/live2496.html
buy two 4gb transcend 150x sd cards from newegg for $90 shipped.   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820163159

all you need is an optical cable to go from your ua5>pda and you're done.  seamless two gb splits and the ability to run 24/96 without worry.  you can switch cards at set break and you'll have enough space on a 4gb card for 24/96 every time as long as they play for less than two hours.  if you feel the band may play over two, run at 24/48, where you get four hours on a 4gb card.  the only drawback to the pda rig imo, is it's ONLY digi in, there's no built in adc for analog in.  however the other feature sets i outlined above far outweigh that one shortcoming.

I've been running something like this for a little while - it works nice once you get all the kinks out. I have a Dell Axim PDA instead of the HP though. The card also works on a coax signal which is handy. The Dell PDA uses a 5V charger too. I'm building a power cable to run the PDA and MR-1 off one battery.

The PDA always gets a lot of oohs and ahhs from the section hehe. My only gripe is that the capture card takes up the CF slot and leaves us the SD slot for storage. I wish it was the other way around but that would be a trickier design.

[JNT]

Overall I've been pretty happy running the PDAudio system as a bit bucket from my V3.   There is more of a learning curve with this set up when it comes to selecting the different components and type of media.  I have had a few glitches along the way but I have gotten them worked out.

My current set up is H555 dual expansion pack recording to either a Toshiba 5 gb PC card or the addonics external hard drive for festivals. I have been running 24 48 with good success.  I haven't tried 24 96 yet.

I'm planning to switch to a a different PDA with a built in CF and SD slot. i want to get rid of the bulky expansion pack and start recording to SD cards without the moving parts of the PC card drives. I think this will also help with battery life. The one downside to this is that afaik 4gb is the largest card I can use since the larger cards are SDHC which I don't think the PDA can use. This is only an issue for festivals.

I'm looking forward to trying the direct to FLAC recording so I can fit more on each card.

Joe

[Digital Quality]

The flac doesn't work so good. It's on too low of a compression setting so the files just wind up bigger than the wav version (for 24 bit anyway). I never got the auto-splitting working quite right either so I just let it record onto one file and split it in CDWAV. The new version handles up to 4GB files so it's pretty easy.

I run 88kHz most of the time. That will get a little over 2 hours on a card and it down samples to 44.1 nicely. The only hassle is you have to use the command line version of flac to encode 88kHz files.

The biggest gotcha is to always remember to format your flash media with at least 32kB clusters.

      format <vol> /a:32k

The default cluster size is really small so if you forget /a:32k the media will run too slow.

[JNT]

Yeah I'm ordering 1 or 2 4gb 150x transcend cards today. When its time for a festival I will either need to by a seperate box to dump the files onto or switch to the H555 with expansion pack and external HD.

Some of my problems involved the expansion pack and it just makes everything too bulky.

* sometimes the card wouldn't be found, reattaching the expansion pack would usually fix this
* one time I think I lost power in the expansion pack but the pda itself didn't

The flac doesn't work so good. It's on too low of a compression setting so the files just wind up bigger than the wav version (for 24 bit anyway). I never got the auto-splitting working quite right either so I just let it record onto one file and split it in CDWAV. The new version handles up to 4GB files so it's pretty easy.

Interesting  Can the compression be increased or does that increase the load on the processor too much?


Joe

[Digital Quality]

There isn't an option to change the encooder level except at compile time. It would be nice to have working just to take care of of some of the file header problems. Sometimes my headers are all messed up. I think it may happen when I try to shut down too fast. I can always get around it by reading/saving in other tools but it's a little annoying.

[Digital Quality]

Guess - I should upgrade, it's been a while.

BTW in case anyone is curious, my PDA is an Axim X50v. Dell quit making the Axim PDA a little while ago so all the accessories are super cheap right now. I think you can get an x50v for about $200 on ebay now. Meanwhile, the x51v is still pushing close to $500.

Edit: I upgraded and now I get 2Gb splits by default. Nice.

[jerryfreak]

hey guys, I am putting together a rig for this summer from mine and some friends' stuff.

I've been out of the game for awhile, and havent gotten much into the solid state recorders. I built a lot of the toshibas out there that the schoeps peeps are using with the vx pockets. if you've seen someone on a portege, chances are I built it

I was planning on running mk4>v2>ad2k>vx pocket at 24/48 this summer, but would like to get a robust 24/96 bit bucket, seems like the pdas have finally come of age.

I had mixed experiences with the pdaudio when I demo'd it back in 03. one recording I successfully made was here:

http://www.archive.org/details/sci2003-10-31.flac24

particularly, the windows driver support sucked, I literally had to learn linux (which I successfuly did for this sole purpose!) and run ecasound to have a pseudo-stable setup.

I'm looking for something that is 100% reliable, like the vx pocket? I've tested its bit-accuracy several times for 12-14 hours, (and 100's of times with double-DAT transfers inverted over each other to reveal digi decoding errors) to test various machines I've built around it, the most solid audio interface I've ever worked with, but unfortuantely limited to 24/48

My question for you: are the current pda solutions that rock solid? I'm willing to hack and tweak it if I can get solid performance that will work 100% of the time. has anybody done extended recording tests with sine-waves or other verifiable bitstreams to confirm absolute stability

and if so, what pda offers the most bang for the buck. I'd be looking for basic recording and playback only (Is digital playback is still a challenge?) looking for something that has decent output level, that can drive some etymotics (my rio karma is a good reference point of what I like for analog output).

Battery life and cost are huge factors. Ideally 3-5 hours per battery. Can you guys recommend me a system that is confirmed trouble free. What sort of battery life do you get?

[OOK]

I was planning on running mk4>v2>ad2k>

Add a tascam HDP2 and your done.......Its stable and reliable.....it would be the perfect addition to your rig.

I have no experience with a marantz 761 or Sound device 722 but they are the other go to decks. Agian stable and reliable.

I would stay away from the microtracker....some have worked with the qurks its has like no auto 2gig split...and other voodoo the machine seems to make....it seems semi stable but I just don't trust it....

[jerryfreak]

Hard to justify the tascam for $700+ if the pda works and is stable for half the price and a fraction of the size. Never considered the microtrack. lack of 2GB splits is a deal killer for me, and it doesnt appear to be 100%  bit-accurate and reliable form what I've read on here

Add a tascam HDP2 and your done.......Its stable and reliable.....it would be the perfect addition to your rig.

I have no experience with a marantz 761 or Sound device 722 but they are the other go to decks. Agian stable and reliable.

I would stay away from the microtracker....some have worked with the qurks its has like no auto 2gig split...and other voodoo the machine seems to make....it seems semi stable but I just don't trust it....

[OOK]

Hard to justify the tascam for $700+ if the pda works and is stable for half the price and a fraction of the size. Never considered the microtrack. lack of 2GB splits is a deal killer for me, and it doesnt appear to be 100%  bit-accurate and reliable form what I've read on here

Add a tascam HDP2 and your done.......Its stable and reliable.....it would be the perfect addition to your rig.

I have no experience with a marantz 761 or Sound device 722 but they are the other go to decks. Agian stable and reliable.

I would stay away from the microtracker....some have worked with the qurks its has like no auto 2gig split...and other voodoo the machine seems to make....it seems semi stable but I just don't trust it....

Again though PDA audio still suffers from a lack of support by this community.  It has struggled with and still struggles with from driver support, at least from the last I heard.  You said it yourself you had to go and learn a computer language just to get the thing semi stable..  The cost verses not having anything to worry about far outways the cost verses is the thing going to be stable and working when I need it too.  The tascam and Marantz models would be the way to go if you are looking for ease of use, reliability and being able to do 24/96. 

[OFOTD]

Hard to justify the tascam for $700+ if the pda works and is stable for half the price and a fraction of the size. Never considered the microtrack. lack of 2GB splits is a deal killer for me, and it doesnt appear to be 100%  bit-accurate and reliable form what I've read on here

It looks like you already have you mind made up then.  For all of those people who would never use the MicroTrack there are a ton that would never go the way of the PDA.  Personally after using a borrowed PDA for a show a couple of years ago there is absolutely nothing that would ever make me use one again.

If you like the PDA good luck and go with it.  You already seem to like the VXPocket so why not stay with it?  Is 48 - 96 a big deal breaker for you?

Also look around and see how many folks actually run a PDA setup compared to a MT/671/HDP2/R4/R09/etc.  I do believe there is some validity in the fact that people seem to go for the bigger and slightly more expensive units over the PDA.   Why is that?  Reliability?  Ease of Use?  Software?  I couldn't tell you exactly.   It just seems to be that the folks in the PDA camp seem to be really die-hard about the format.   It makes me wonder why the rest of the taping community at large has not followed suit.

To me the absolute best thing about the R4 for example is that I hit record and that's it.  Truly.  Hit record and it works and with the lion batteries it works for 8 hours at 24/96.   If I had to learn Linux or some other software/OS that would be a pretty big difference than just hitting record.

Tell us in your experience why you feel the PDA is such a good option?  I know you've previously said price.  100% reliability is not one for most.  24/96?  Is that rate reliable on those systems?  Battery life?  How about the fragility of the components?  Wear and tear?   Are you going solely based on price?

 

[jerryfreak]

i never said it was my only choice or the best choice, I was asking a question, of those who use pda's, whether it is stable for them and they have actually tested it themselves.

I love the vx pocket, but have never had a relaible solution for capturing the ad2k at 2496 (again, I essentially stopped taping in 03). wanted to revisit and see if the pda is a viable option or not. The sheer size and expense of the marantz/tascam units really turn me off. but if there was a good, small, reliable solution under $500, I'd be all about it.

It looks like you already have you mind made up then.  For all of those people who would never use the MicroTrack there are a ton that would never go the way of the PDA.  Personally after using a borrowed PDA for a show a couple of years ago there is absolutely nothing that would ever make me use one again.

If you like the PDA good luck and go with it.  You already seem to like the VXPocket so why not stay with it?  Is 48 - 96 a big deal breaker for you?

Also look around and see how many folks actually run a PDA setup compared to a MT/671/HDP2/R4/R09/etc.  I do believe there is some validity in the fact that people seem to go for the bigger and slightly more expensive units over the PDA.   Why is that?  Reliability?  Ease of Use?  Software?  I couldn't tell you exactly.   It just seems to be that the folks in the PDA camp seem to be really die-hard about the format.   It makes me wonder why the rest of the taping community at large has not followed suit.

To me the absolute best thing about the R4 for example is that I hit record and that's it.  Truly.  Hit record and it works and with the lion batteries it works for 8 hours at 24/96.   If I had to learn Linux or some other software/OS that would be a pretty big difference than just hitting record.

Tell us in your experience why you feel the PDA is such a good option?  I know you've previously said price.  100% reliability is not one for most.  24/96?  Is that rate reliable on those systems?  Battery life?  How about the fragility of the components?  Wear and tear?   Are you going solely based on price?

 

[OFOTD]

i never said it was my only choice or the best choice, I was asking a question, of those who use pda's, whether it is stable for them and they have actually tested it themselves.

I love the vx pocket, but have never had a relaible solution for capturing the ad2k at 2496 (again, I essentially stopped taping in 03). wanted to revisit and see if the pda is a viable option or not. The sheer size and expense of the marantz/tascam units really turn me off. but if there was a good, small, reliable solution under $500, I'd be all about it.

Now we're moving along.  What are you feelings about new vs. used?  Are you still planning/hoping to use the VXPocket as well?  Is $500 your budget or just what you're shooting for?

What do you foresee for yourself taping wise going into the future?  Do you see yourself taping more, less or about the same?   How married are you to the AD2k?  Have you considered the Edirol R09? 

[Digital Quality]

I've used it since about Feb. I don't have another 24b bucket to capture for comparing so I can't really help you there. It's been very reliable since I got the initial kinks out. All of my problems have been flash media related. Either I forgot to format with the right cluster size, or I forgot to format after each show, or I cheaped out and tried to make it work with off-brand flash. I normally run 88kHz which gives a little over 2 hours on a 4GB SD card, 96kHz would yield a little under 2 hours once you format the card with larger clusters.

As for which pda it probably doesn't matter much as long as you have the 624MHz PXA270 chip. The Dells have a nice extended 2.2AH battery option and they have a little smaller form factor. The extended battery bulges out the back though so the standard cases won't fit. I have not run it to the end yet but it will probably do 5 hours or so. You have to charge the battery in the unit though so multiple batteries are probably not going to be as good as a power runner setup. It runs off 5V and there is a nice little adapter included for the car charger or whatever that you can use to charge off a battery.

I think the HPs are a little cheaper but I don't have any experience with them.

The PDA is my #1 recorder right now. I used to run the JB3 or IRiver as backup truncating to 16 bits but that's not possible over 48kHz so I dropped it and jumped to 88kHz once I felt comfortable.

[JasonSobel]

i never said it was my only choice or the best choice, I was asking a question, of those who use pda's, whether it is stable for them and they have actually tested it themselves.

I love the vx pocket, but have never had a relaible solution for capturing the ad2k at 2496 (again, I essentially stopped taping in 03). wanted to revisit and see if the pda is a viable option or not. The sheer size and expense of the marantz/tascam units really turn me off. but if there was a good, small, reliable solution under $500, I'd be all about it.

a PDA setup can work nicely, as Steam Powered mentioned above.  you're not going to get too much more info about PDA recording, because not too many people use it.  the reason why not a lot of people use it is because it requires a lot of knowledge and time to get it set up just right.  perhaps you are willing to invest the time and effort to get it configured and working just right.  many people don't want or have the time to do that.

> if there was a good, small, reliable solution under $500, I'd be all about it.

yeah, you and tons of other people.  the fact is, right now, the only sub-$500 recorder with a digi input is the MicroTrack (and maybe a PDA setup, depending on configuration).  As you noted above, the MicroTrack is not rock-solid, and doesn't do seamless splits at 2GB.  I owned one for 9 months and got good use out of it, but I never trusted it 100%.

you say you are turned off by the size and cost of the Marantz and Tascam units.  as for the size of them, well, you're already running a V2 and an AD2K.  so it's not exactly like you're going stealth here.  you could set up either of these recorders (PMD-671 or HD-P2) to run vertically in a bag next to V2 and AD2K.  I don't see the size as a big deal.  but maybe you do.  and then the cost.  yes, they cost more than a MicroTrack or a PDA setup.  but they are both 100% reliable, with no worries, no configuration problems, no kinks to work out.  just turn it on and press record.  most people are willing to pay a little more for a recorder that's worry free and absolutely easy to operate.

[jerryfreak]

thanks steam, thats the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I'm willing to hack a bit to make it work, as long as the results are good.

and with regard to the v2>2k already being big, I generally run FOB when I do tape, and when I had a rig I used to run 64>V3>2k>vxpocket fob, and it was surprisingly small, when I was using the tiny sony vaio u3, it all fit inside of a camcorder bag, with batteries. Another large unit is not in my future.

also from my perspective, the v2>2k are there because of their sound, and they are the size they are. A properly working bit bucket sounds the same as any other, and theres no justification for the larger size.

I wish I could borrow a pdaudio CF card, I have no problem throwing down for a pda, but would like to limit my spending till I'm comfortable with the setup.

again, i dont really have a rig now, just my ad2k and vxpocket. But with the right setup, an ad2k and compact bit bucket becomes a great patcher rig with all of those unused v3 xlr outs

I've used it since about Feb. I don't have another 24b bucket to capture for comparing so I can't really help you there. It's been very reliable since I got the initial kinks out. All of my problems have been flash media related. Either I forgot to format with the right cluster size, or I forgot to format after each show, or I cheaped out and tried to make it work with off-brand flash. I normally run 88kHz which gives a little over 2 hours on a 4GB SD card, 96kHz would yield a little under 2 hours once you format the card with larger clusters.

[Digital Quality]

Maybe put up an ISO in the yard sale. I bet there are some closet users that maybe didn't get it going smoothly and  would like to unload their card.

[jerryfreak]

yeah, I'd rather try it from len for a refundable $200 then buy one for $100-$150 and then be stuck with it.

Maybe put up an ISO in the yard sale. I bet there are some closet users that maybe didn't get it going smoothly and  would like to unload their card.

[OFOTD]

yeah, I'd rather try it from len for a refundable $200 then buy one for $100-$150 and then be stuck with it.

Don't count on that from Len.  Many many bad experiences with Len from many many different people. 

[jerryfreak]

well, i did try one in the past, and successfully got my money refunded, but it took several months and many many calls and emails.

So I would assume that if Len is flaky these days, that driver support for that device has ceased? linux alsa driver is probably maintained independently of him

Don't count on that from Len.  Many many bad experiences with Len from many many different people. 

[OFOTD]

well, i did try one in the past, and successfully got my money refunded, but it took several months and many many calls and emails.

So I would assume that if Len is flaky these days, that driver support for that device has ceased? linux alsa driver is probably maintained independently of him

Don't count on that from Len.  Many many bad experiences with Len from many many different people. 

Honestly a couple of years ago I though of getting back into using that PDA card.  In the people having problems to the number without problems the dissatisfied seemed to be staggering when compared to those that were happy.  If you like hacking and working on problems for days on end it might be right up your alley.  Again for me i've grown very accustomed to just hitting record.      

For the record Len has not gotten any better with his customer service.  probably worse.

Gorden Guidluck (sp?) I know is a big proponent on the PDA setup as he develops one of the software packages for it.  I think he goes by live2496 here I think.  He may have a bunch of specific answers for you as well.

[live2496]

Just caught up with this thread tonight.

To respond to a few things mentioned...

Is the driver ok?
We had problems with the driver initially, and also I had buffering problems in my application (as did others). I have, however, managed to have it recording bit accurate for about two years now or thereabouts. The pocket pc driver is from pocket pc 2002, but it works because the cpu's in these systems are the same architecture as the 206mHz iPAQ's.

RE: flac
I recommend it only for 16-bit recording right now. It's flac level '0' because anything higher brings the cpu to it's knees.  So, even if you record to flac and save, say 40% space, you might want to re-encode to a higher level later.

The 24-bit encoding isn't what it should be yet. Josh Coalson mentioned that it was an issue with the design and something about the rice coder. Anyway he has the code written to fix it, but he won't publish it until some hardware manufacturers make appropriate changes. He doesn't want to break anything, so that's good. However, meanwhile we wait.

formatting:
I recommend formatting right on the pda. I use a program called Storage Tools for that and it just takes a few seconds to format a 4gb drive on the pocket pc. The largest cluster sizes (64kb) are recommended for pocket pc recording. But step down to 32kb if you need to for your card reader (or maybe get a new reader).

reliability:
It works. Start, stop all you want to. It's robust software. And it stops on frame boundaries, does seamless splits on frame boundaries and so forth. One customer records the Dallas Symphony. He runs a Tascam DV-RA1000 and uses the pda as a backup at 88.2kHz. (They downsample for CD's). He told me that on one occasion when he had a glitch due to a bad DVD media that he used the pda's file to fixup the recording. Needless to say that made my day... He runs an X51v and 4gb Transcend 150x media.

Now you can turn the screen off while recording and split to a new file at whatever pre-specified interval you wish. Anywhere from 10mb to 4000mb. Or, you can press the button on the front to split. It has a file fixup feature which fixes wav header information of any files on the current path.

The pocket pc may not be for everyone. But many of those that have them seem to like them.

What's my favorite pocket pc? Well, I have tested a few of them. The X51v, the hp hx2795, and the H2210 in that order. The X51v has the nicest display of all and 2200mAh battery option.

[meatling]

mine, which was bought shortly after launch by its original owner (i'm the 2nd), has performed flawlessly at 24 bit.  it sounds like your problem *could* of been related to a faulty adc on your particular box? 

I doubt it, because playback using the recorder was comparatively fine. It was just when you played the same files with anything else that you noticed something's wrong. Maybe you never exported your files to a DAW and that's why you didn't notice the flaw?

got any links?

No, I don't have any links. I still have some recordings I made back then, though.

m

[Digital Quality]

What's my favorite pocket pc? Well, I have tested a few of them. The X51v, the hp hx2795, and the H2210 in that order. The X51v has the nicest display of all and 2200mAh battery option.

The X50v works the same for recording, it has half the space for programs and the gfx are a little less awesome but the core processor is the same. Batteries and stuff are interchangeable between the 2 as well.


+t for good software.

[sygdwm]

mine, which was bought shortly after launch by its original owner (i'm the 2nd), has performed flawlessly at 24 bit.  it sounds like your problem *could* of been related to a faulty adc on your particular box? 

I doubt it, because playback using the recorder was comparatively fine. It was just when you played the same files with anything else that you noticed something's wrong. Maybe you never exported your files to a DAW and that's why you didn't notice the flaw?

got any links?

No, I don't have any links. I still have some recordings I made back then, though.

m

i seriously doubt that tim never looked at the wavs in an editor. again, thats 3 units between us that have had NO issues.

[meatling]

i seriously doubt that tim never looked at the wavs in an editor. again, thats 3 units between us that have had NO issues.

That's quite insignificant, statistically. Anyway, I tried Google ("PMD671 bugs") -- lo and behold -- here's from transom.org:

24-bit PCM files created by the PMD671 are unreadable on my PC or - at best - exhibit an abnormal (e.g. very loud) hiss (kind of what you get when most significant bits are messed up with the least significant ones...)
...
Same problem here. I'm using Wavelab 4 and Cubase SL2.....both cannot correctly read a PMD761 24/96k file. Hmmmmmmmm, a trend here??
I've google searched, and THIS seems the first forum to report this problem.
....
Marantz reply:

(reply from an email I sent to Marantz):

Hi Randy,
We are aware of the issue. It is currently being researched by our
engineers in Japan.

Just what I said 

m

[sygdwm]

i seriously doubt that tim never looked at the wavs in an editor. again, thats 3 units between us that have had NO issues.

That's quite insignificant, statistically. Anyway, I tried Google ("PMD671 bugs") -- lo and behold: 24-bit PCM files created by the PMD671 are unreadable on my PC or - at best - exhibit an abnormal (e.g. very loud) hiss (kind of what you get when most significant bits are messed up with the least significant ones...)

Just what I said 

m

i got through about half of that and saw this:

Alan Stockdale - 09:20am May 26, 2005 EST (#20 of 78) Reply

Solution?

According to a post on the Oade Recording forum it is a Microsoft-related issue. Apparently a solution is to "...open the Marantz 24/96 files in CD Wave, and then save them choosing "No conversion" and "alternate 24 bit format""

CD Wave is here (costs $15): http://www.milosoftware.com/cdwave/
More information in the CD Wave FAQ section.

also, wavelab5 has no problems w/ 24bit files from the 671. maybe tim and i are the only ones. here is a recording of mine in 24bit:

http://digitalpanic.org/bittorrent/showthread.php?p=119731

still going strong. see attachment.

[JasonSobel]

when the PMD-671 was first released, the 24-bit files it wrote were not standard, typical WAV files.  Marantz then offered a firmware fix (which you had to send it back in) to record to standard format 24-bit WAV files.  this problem and fix have been discussed here on taperssection, although it was quite a while ago.  Marantz fixed the problem to everyone's satisfaction, and many people are very happy with it.  The "loud hiss" is due to the less than great stock pre-amps.  if you use the recorder as a bit-bucket only, it's a non issue.  that's why most people who run mics directly into the unit choose to get the pre-amps modded, to lower the noise floor and to sound better.

[sygdwm]

there are so many variables to "my computer wont open 671 24bit files". are they computer/software literate? are they using shitty microdrives/cf cards?


edit: i never sent either of my units in for firmware updates.

[JasonSobel]

edit: i never sent either of my units in for firmware updates.

you probably bought them after the fix was released, and hence, the update was already on your unit.
it's discussed a bit here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,51243.0.html

[sygdwm]

its possible that the acm box has the latest firmware, but i got the stock one right out of the gate.

[JasonSobel]

its possible that the acm box has the latest firmware, but i got the stock one right out of the gate.

meatling, the symptoms you had with the 671 are because at introduction marantz used a new (at the time) microsoft protocol when the files were saved, called "e24".  it's not a *bug* with the recorder.  the majority of editing software available during that time period couldn't read the files properly.  there's nothing wrong with the files, you just couldn't edit them with whatever software you were using.  you can tell if your firmware has been updated b/c if it has then the "e24" option isn't available in the settings menu.

some discussion here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,38508.msg673840.html#msg673840
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,64570.msg904727.html#msg904727

yup, Tim summed it up there....

my only point in posting was that any info regarding unreadable 24 bit files is very much out of date, as that potential issue was resolved a long time ago.

[sygdwm]

my point exactly.

[meatling]

when the PMD-671 was first released, the 24-bit files it wrote were not standard, typical WAV files. 

Thank you for vindicating my description.

Marantz fixed the problem to everyone's satisfaction, and many people are very happy with it.  The "loud hiss" is due to the less than great stock pre-amps.

These two sentences in direct succession are quite hilarious.

M

[meatling]

my only point in posting was that any info regarding unreadable 24 bit files is very much out of date, as that potential issue was resolved a long time ago.

I have no way of knowing since I returned that recorder in 2005. However, my original post to this thread was a reaction to the claim that the 671 [...] had zero problems since release.

Now that's a claim that I find highly misleading. Of course it's true the 671 had zero problems since release. Its users had problems, however.

m

[live2496]

What's my favorite pocket pc? Well, I have tested a few of them. The X51v, the hp hx2795, and the H2210 in that order. The X51v has the nicest display of all and 2200mAh battery option.

The X50v works the same for recording, it has half the space for programs and the gfx are a little less awesome but the core processor is the same. Batteries and stuff are interchangeable between the 2 as well.


+t for good software.

Thanks! Yes, the X50v is on par with the X51v. Pretty much the same machine with a newer OS.

[meatling]

you wrote in the above post that the files have atrocious noise in them.

Yup. And unfortunately, your screenshot shows or proves absolutely nothing in this respect, because it is not evident what it should show. But look at this:
 


That's supposed to be silence, in other words, a flat line. And if that doesn't qualify as atrocious noise, I don't know what does.

m

[sygdwm]

are you using the stock pre-amps?

[Nick's Picks]

even the problems at launch were just a minor software glitch in how it reported a particular files...something that you could even fix/defeat w/a different setting if I recall.  I had one of those early units w/this bug.  I swear, maybe 4 day turn around shipping to and fro to D&M, and it fixed and 100% reliable.

there is a nice first hand report to add to the list.

[jerryfreak]

actually x50v is 520 mhz, x51v is 624 mhz

gordon, would that make a difference?

What's my favorite pocket pc? Well, I have tested a few of them. The X51v, the hp hx2795, and the H2210 in that order. The X51v has the nicest display of all and 2200mAh battery option.

The X50v works the same for recording, it has half the space for programs and the gfx are a little less awesome but the core processor is the same. Batteries and stuff are interchangeable between the 2 as well.


+t for good software.

[Digital Quality]

x50v is also 624MHz. It's the same processor core.

Edit: without the V is slower processors.

[jerryfreak]

yup, my bad. how do the x50 with the 524 mhz work?anybody got any experience? theres a ton on ebay right now for $150

x50v is also 624MHz. It's the same processor core.

Edit: without the V is slower processors.

[Digital Quality]

Ill run a test this weekend on the slower speed and see what happens. I can restrict it to 520MHz.

Edit: Be careful, there is an x50 520Mhz, and an x50 412Mhz. It's confusing.

[live2496]

Ill run a test this weekend on the slower speed and see what happens. I can restrict it to 520MHz.

Edit: Be careful, there is an x50 520Mhz, and an x50 412Mhz. It's confusing.

Yes, these are the non-VGA version. That may be a good buy. I haven't tested one though.

Using Live2496, the 400mHz H2210 or H2215 can record at 24-bit 96kHz to 150x flash memory. So, one could speculate that the 412mHz X50 may work nicely.

On my web pages I had posted that the X50 may not work. But as I recall this was very early and at that time we did not know to turn off the error reporting feature.

[Digital Quality]

I cant test this after all. I was thinking I could lock it down but it only sets the base speed. It always increases speed to meet demand.

I should also point out, you won't be able to use the software meters for setting record levels. The display update isn't fast enough. That's not an issue for me, but it needs to be said.

[meatling]

there are hundreds of recordings, probably thousands, from the past two years with 671's set to 24 bit that prove the problems you were having in 2005 are not happening anymore.

No contest. I stated a historical fact, and I clearly stated it as a historical fact.

If you choose to interpret this as a claim that today's PMD671s are junk, that's your prerogative. It's just not what I said.

the file system MICROSOFT created wasn't playing nice with editing software.  if you want to blame someone, blame microsoft.

Yeah, right Of course you wouldn't see Marantz ratnering that they simply didn't bother to research the correct layout of a 24-bit file, even if that were the case, now would you?

i don't know why you insist on re-hashing a topic that has no relevance on the actual reality of things now.

Once again, I stated a historical fact, and I clearly stated it as a historical fact. And I'm not in the habit of trying to appease people by admitting to be wrong when in fact I'm right.

Speaking of which, if you really want to continue the discussion and argue with me that it was not a bug but some mysterious "new format" for which Microsoft would be to blame, be my guest.

m

[sygdwm]

it is a fact that the 671 (modded or not) works right out of the box at 24 bit with no firmware updates. 

[Since85]

I agree. I have had an ACM 671 for a little over a year, and love it! I am pretty anal about my "mission critical" recordings, and I think the thing is flawless. It truly is "me" proof! I only wish it was a lot smaller than a D-5.

Just make sure you use a good quality CF card. Should not be a problem these days, the way prices are dropping.

Good luck!

 

[JNT]

RE: flac
I recommend it only for 16-bit recording right now. It's flac level '0' because anything higher brings the cpu to it's knees.  So, even if you record to flac and save, say 40% space, you might want to re-encode to a higher level later.

The 24-bit encoding isn't what it should be yet. Josh Coalson mentioned that it was an issue with the design and something about the rice coder. Anyway he has the code written to fix it, but he won't publish it until some hardware manufacturers make appropriate changes. He doesn't want to break anything, so that's good. However, meanwhile we wait.

Gordon,  I understand a new version of FLAC with better compression has been released.  Could this be used with live2496 to improve the 24 bit compression? 

Joe

[ford prefect]

If I run a digi-mod UA5...what would be the best option to dump the data to in 24 bit? I know the iRiver and JB3 are 16 bit. What else that has optical or digital in is 24 bit besides the microtrack? and if so how much is it. Is there anything that would be around the price of an iRiver that can actually do 24 bit??

imo, your best option is a pda set up.  you can get one with all the needed components for under $500. 

buy a used "ipaq h2210" off ebay for ~$150 tops     http://tinyurl.com/3c4x3m
buy the pa audio card from core sound for $200       http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-cf/1.php
buy the software from forum member gordon aka "live24/96" for $50   http://www.gidluckmastering.com/live2496.html
buy two 4gb transcend 150x sd cards from newegg for $90 shipped.   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820163159

all you need is an optical cable to go from your ua5>pda and you're done.  seamless two gb splits and the ability to run 24/96 without worry.  you can switch cards at set break and you'll have enough space on a 4gb card for 24/96 every time as long as they play for less than two hours.  if you feel the band may play over two, run at 24/48, where you get four hours on a 4gb card.  the only drawback to the pda rig imo, is it's ONLY digi in, there's no built in adc for analog in.  however the other feature sets i outlined above far outweigh that one shortcoming.

Sickness.  I have a Dell X51 (non-V) @ 520Mhz for work.  Just spent half my lunch break investigating this and it looks like UA-5 > PD-Audio CF > PDA is in my future.  What a slick setup.

Thanks,

Anyone need a JB3?   

[Digital Quality]

Cool - nab yourself a high capacity battery on ebay, a couple of Transcend 4GB SD flash cards on newegg, and a coax cable with a mini plug and you will be ready to rock. You can run optical in but the coax is more bomber and you'll have optical for backup or patchers.

Keep your JB3 and run a 16 bit truncated copy for backup, just in case, for a little while. Then, sell it when you are super comfortable with the PDA setup. With the right flash memory and the latest software it will be a lot easier than it used to be. Make sure you always format with at least 32KB clusters.

[live2496]

RE: flac
I recommend it only for 16-bit recording right now. It's flac level '0' because anything higher brings the cpu to it's knees.  So, even if you record to flac and save, say 40% space, you might want to re-encode to a higher level later.

The 24-bit encoding isn't what it should be yet. Josh Coalson mentioned that it was an issue with the design and something about the rice coder. Anyway he has the code written to fix it, but he won't publish it until some hardware manufacturers make appropriate changes. He doesn't want to break anything, so that's good. However, meanwhile we wait.

Gordon,  I understand a new version of FLAC with better compression has been released.  Could this be used with live2496 to improve the 24 bit compression? 

Joe

Joe
The code that Josh mentioned hasn't been released yet. It's not in 1.1.4 .
Implementing new flac code in my application isn't a minor thing, because I had to port the libraries myself. There is no makefile for flac the pocket pc like on linux or windows.

I will certainly look into getting this done though, because the gains for 24-bit encoding will be significant for users. A few like me are waiting on this. Reaper, for example. SoundDevices will want to use the newer code, I'm sure.

Gordon

P.S. There's a new pocket pc coming out that might be suitable for PDAudio. From Socket Communications. Dell will be selling them also.  http://live2496.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=236#236

[twoodruff]

incidentally, i fried a fuse in the stock unit one month after the warranty ran out by sending it reverse polarity from a rat shack power cord. marantz told me to get fuct. i was pissed for a minute, but i just run it on internal AA's now w/o so much of a hiccup. live and learn. i am considering getting a third fwiw.

and I think we should get a third, with mods, kinda shaky on the fr2LE

[sygdwm]

incidentally, i fried a fuse in the stock unit one month after the warranty ran out by sending it reverse polarity from a rat shack power cord. marantz told me to get fuct. i was pissed for a minute, but i just run it on internal AA's now w/o so much of a hiccup. live and learn. i am considering getting a third fwiw.

and I think we should get a third, with mods, kinda shaky on the fr2LE

done.

[jerryfreak]

FYI, I used the pdaudio with an axim x50v on the recent umphreys west coast tour.

Also tested it for prob 20-30 hours beforehand at a bunch of bit/sample rates.

couldnt break it. flawless when recording to wav. couldnt get flac to work for any 24-bit recording (drops samples), tho it worked great for 16-bit (even up to 96K).

Eagerly awaiting the new flac implementation.

Great support from gordon...

If you are in the market for a pda, and are shopping ebay, I highly recommend the x50 and x51 'v' versions. The x50v can be had for less than $250. Killer display, great for watching dvd's ripped to divx/wmv. awesome travel accessory.

[greppson]

i'm still undecided between the hd-p2 and the marantz 671. both would be modded in some way, but... yeah. i need to figure this out soon.

[greppson]

this may seem a bit like a stupid question, but how do you control the trim for each channel on a 671? all i see is a knob to the right that just looks to be the recording level.

[JasonSobel]

this may seem a bit like a stupid question, but how do you control the trim for each channel on a 671? all i see is a knob to the right that just looks to be the recording level.

the knob on the right that controls the recording level actually is two dials.  an inner and an outer dial.  it is setup like that, so it is very easy to control them both at the same time and have the same gain for both channels, but it is easy enough to hold one in place while adjusted the other knob, to fine tune the levels for each channel individually.

[edwardo_machino]

I use the Microtrack 24/96 with an AD-20.  Sounds absolutely fantastic, although the AD-20 limits me to 44.1 kHz.

EDIT: The AD-20 outputs a 20 bit signal so maybe this setup is irrelevant to you.

[jmz93]

Speaking of 24-bit recorders with S/PDIF in, I have a Microtrack 2496, Core Sound MIC2496 dual mic pre/adc, and a set of CSB's and battery box for sale. PM if interested.

[Digital Quality]

As for the PDA side of things - I ran my PDA on 512MHz two different shows and each time I got a dropout. The 2nd time I was even running 16 bits. I guess it could be a cable thing if I was messing around but from now on, I'm running at full speed.

[live2496]

As for the PDA side of things - I ran my PDA on 512MHz two different shows and each time I got a dropout. The 2nd time I was even running 16 bits. I guess it could be a cable thing if I was messing around but from now on, I'm running at full speed.

We recommend running the X51v full blast and to turn off the dynamic cpu speed adjustment.

[Digital Quality]

Update on the Axim recording scene:

Hackers have written a WM6 upgrade for the axim x50v (and I think x51v). The reason this is big news is that it provides us with SDHC compatibility and we'll be able to use up to 8GB SDHC cards.     

I'm in the middle of upgrading right now so I'll keeps ya'll posted how things work out.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1430712&posted=1#post1430712

[jerryfreak]

it works.

I used the v08oct06 version of live2496, and recorded 3 hours 57 minutes to 8gb patriot and ocz class6 sdhc cards.

tested the waveform, zero dropped samples, buffer never went above single digits

YMMV!
test it at home first

Update on the Axim recording scene:

Hackers have written a WM6 upgrade for the axim x50v (and I think x51v). The reason this is big news is that it provides us with SDHC compatibility and we'll be able to use up to 8GB SDHC cards.     

I'm in the middle of upgrading right now so I'll keeps ya'll posted how things work out.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1430712&posted=1#post1430712

[live2496]

That's really excellent news!

One word of caution to those that might read this. Read the thread that Steam Powered referred to very carefully and make sure that you follow the instructions. From the thread it seems that there is some risk of turning your pda into a "brick", so be careful!

[jerryfreak]

check out this:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/22/toshiba-announces-32gb-16gb-sdhc-cards/

::wets pants::

seriously, 8gb is working great. 4 hrs at 2496 is a lot of space, and when the new flac codec is incorporated into live2496, were prob. looking at 7+ hrs on a $60 card

[macdaddy]

does this work with the x51v..?

[Digital Quality]

There is a separate effort ongoing for the x51v (I thought they could use the same ROM but that's not the case, sorry)  http://tinyurl.com/2uw9to It looks like there is a preview release out but I'm not sure how totally done it is, check the last few pages in that thread.

[macdaddy]

There is a separate effort ongoing for the x51v (I thought they could use the same ROM but that's not the case, sorry)  http://tinyurl.com/2uw9to It looks like there is a preview release out but I'm not sure how totally done it is, check the last few pages in that thread.

thanks.

+t

[macdaddy]

so all i do is use bootloader and select/load this *.nb0 from a sd card..? do i need anything else..? i have wm5 installed...

thanks.

[jerryfreak]

read the thread carefully.

1.make sure youre using the right rom x50 is not an x50v is not an x51v you will brick it with the wrong one

2. copy the files to a freshly formatted fat32 sd card

3. when you try to get into image loader mode, hold the two buttons down and briefly tap the reset with your stylus while continuing to hold the two buttons for a few more seconds

4. give it time to find the nb0 files, it took several minutes on mine

5. test test test at home, dont be like steam powered and wait till you get in the field to find you have a problem. I will NOT take a recorder/build into the field without at least 20 hours of testing for dropped samples. This software and drivers was not designed for WM6, so it is on you to confirm that your setup works. I only run at full processor speed, but have tested at lower speed with mixed results. battery power is cheap, but lost bits are irreplaceable

so all i do is use bootloader and select/load this *.nb0 from a sd card..? do i need anything else..? i have wm5 installed...

thanks.

[macdaddy]

thanks, jf. i understand all of that - i just wanted to make sure i didnt need another file on the sd card (like some version/rom of wm6, that i might have to purchase somewhere else). it looks like all i need is the one file...

+t

[jerryfreak]

as long as youre already at wm5, you should be good to go with the nbo and crc provided on the site

thanks, jf. i understand all of that - i just wanted to make sure i didnt need another file on the sd card (like some version/rom of wm6, that i might have to purchase somewhere else). it looks like all i need is the one file...

+t

[macdaddy]

the crc is a checksum - does it have to be on the sd card, too..?

many thanks for all of your help.

+t

[Digital Quality]

Yes, put it on the card too. I actually haven't done this yet because I've been saving up for a sailboat and making do on the flash cards I already have. I did stay at a Holiday in last night though - and I just googled "axim rom update crc" hehe.

[Kevin Straker]

and why is it better than the marantz?
its bigger...I know that.

Better meters, better headphone amp(louder,no distortion), no issues with internal batteries being too big, Hold function does not lock out the margin reset, as it does on the 671. It actually doesn't use a margin reset since the meter displays the peak and then decays at a preset speed. The angled screen is easier to read in the bag. Hdp2 is less picky about cf brand.

[Digital Quality]

the crc is a checksum - does it have to be on the sd card, too..?

PS, +t for bleeding edge testing! Keep us posted how it goes now!!

[jerryfreak]

Ive been using the beta1 for weeks now - it works perfectly for recording.

I'm waiting until the final release before testing, theyre getting close

the crc is a checksum - does it have to be on the sd card, too..?

PS, +t for bleeding edge testing! Keep us posted how it goes now!!

[macdaddy]

this is "football's a03" that i am gonna try - it seems to be the latest...

so that's it then..? just put those two files @ the root of a sd card, and then follow the instructions with bootloader..?

i really want to record to those 8+ gig sd cards that you cant use with wm5. if that can work, and can be stable, i will be very stoked...

many thanks for all the help fellas. +t

[jerryfreak]

again, read the thread, do you have an x51v?

footballs roms are x51v, maglites are for the x50v

this is "football's a03" that i am gonna try - it seems to be the latest...

so that's it then..? just put those two files @ the root of a sd card, and then follow the instructions with bootloader..?

i really want to record to those 8+ gig sd cards that you cant use with wm5. if that can work, and can be stable, i will be very stoked...

many thanks for all the help fellas. +t

[Nick's Picks]

and why is it better than the marantz?
its bigger...I know that.

Better meters, better headphone amp(louder,no distortion), no issues with internal batteries being too big, Hold function does not lock out the margin reset, as it does on the 671. It actually doesn't use a margin reset since the meter displays the peak and then decays at a preset speed. The angled screen is easier to read in the bag. Hdp2 is less picky about cf brand.

I still like the "made in japan" aspect of the marantz, which uses higher quality parts inside (according to Doug Oade, who would know).
When he says something to the affect of "well, you can certainly tell which one was made in china, and which was made in Japan"...., there is a lot between the lines.

[macdaddy]

again, read the thread, do you have an x51v?

footballs roms are x51v, maglites are for the x50v

this is "football's a03" that i am gonna try - it seems to be the latest...

so that's it then..? just put those two files @ the root of a sd card, and then follow the instructions with bootloader..?

i really want to record to those 8+ gig sd cards that you cant use with wm5. if that can work, and can be stable, i will be very stoked...

many thanks for all the help fellas. +t

i thought i had stated that - i am indeed using a x51v. so i think i am all set to do this - put the two files on (the a0s and the crc) at the root of a sd card formatted to fat32, and run the bootloader to install the new rom..?

many thanks (and another round of T's)

[Digital Quality]

Yes - I believe that's it. Do you have a way back? I've not put any work into that - I wonder if we can load the current rom onto a card? Sorry to answer with a question but just been pondering that..