Topic: Best 24 bit "bit bucket?"

[OFOTD]

Hard to justify the tascam for $700+ if the pda works and is stable for half the price and a fraction of the size. Never considered the microtrack. lack of 2GB splits is a deal killer for me, and it doesnt appear to be 100%  bit-accurate and reliable form what I've read on here

It looks like you already have you mind made up then.  For all of those people who would never use the MicroTrack there are a ton that would never go the way of the PDA.  Personally after using a borrowed PDA for a show a couple of years ago there is absolutely nothing that would ever make me use one again.

If you like the PDA good luck and go with it.  You already seem to like the VXPocket so why not stay with it?  Is 48 - 96 a big deal breaker for you?

Also look around and see how many folks actually run a PDA setup compared to a MT/671/HDP2/R4/R09/etc.  I do believe there is some validity in the fact that people seem to go for the bigger and slightly more expensive units over the PDA.   Why is that?  Reliability?  Ease of Use?  Software?  I couldn't tell you exactly.   It just seems to be that the folks in the PDA camp seem to be really die-hard about the format.   It makes me wonder why the rest of the taping community at large has not followed suit.

To me the absolute best thing about the R4 for example is that I hit record and that's it.  Truly.  Hit record and it works and with the lion batteries it works for 8 hours at 24/96.   If I had to learn Linux or some other software/OS that would be a pretty big difference than just hitting record.

Tell us in your experience why you feel the PDA is such a good option?  I know you've previously said price.  100% reliability is not one for most.  24/96?  Is that rate reliable on those systems?  Battery life?  How about the fragility of the components?  Wear and tear?   Are you going solely based on price?

 

[jerryfreak]

i never said it was my only choice or the best choice, I was asking a question, of those who use pda's, whether it is stable for them and they have actually tested it themselves.

I love the vx pocket, but have never had a relaible solution for capturing the ad2k at 2496 (again, I essentially stopped taping in 03). wanted to revisit and see if the pda is a viable option or not. The sheer size and expense of the marantz/tascam units really turn me off. but if there was a good, small, reliable solution under $500, I'd be all about it.

It looks like you already have you mind made up then.  For all of those people who would never use the MicroTrack there are a ton that would never go the way of the PDA.  Personally after using a borrowed PDA for a show a couple of years ago there is absolutely nothing that would ever make me use one again.

If you like the PDA good luck and go with it.  You already seem to like the VXPocket so why not stay with it?  Is 48 - 96 a big deal breaker for you?

Also look around and see how many folks actually run a PDA setup compared to a MT/671/HDP2/R4/R09/etc.  I do believe there is some validity in the fact that people seem to go for the bigger and slightly more expensive units over the PDA.   Why is that?  Reliability?  Ease of Use?  Software?  I couldn't tell you exactly.   It just seems to be that the folks in the PDA camp seem to be really die-hard about the format.   It makes me wonder why the rest of the taping community at large has not followed suit.

To me the absolute best thing about the R4 for example is that I hit record and that's it.  Truly.  Hit record and it works and with the lion batteries it works for 8 hours at 24/96.   If I had to learn Linux or some other software/OS that would be a pretty big difference than just hitting record.

Tell us in your experience why you feel the PDA is such a good option?  I know you've previously said price.  100% reliability is not one for most.  24/96?  Is that rate reliable on those systems?  Battery life?  How about the fragility of the components?  Wear and tear?   Are you going solely based on price?

 

[OFOTD]

i never said it was my only choice or the best choice, I was asking a question, of those who use pda's, whether it is stable for them and they have actually tested it themselves.

I love the vx pocket, but have never had a relaible solution for capturing the ad2k at 2496 (again, I essentially stopped taping in 03). wanted to revisit and see if the pda is a viable option or not. The sheer size and expense of the marantz/tascam units really turn me off. but if there was a good, small, reliable solution under $500, I'd be all about it.

Now we're moving along.  What are you feelings about new vs. used?  Are you still planning/hoping to use the VXPocket as well?  Is $500 your budget or just what you're shooting for?

What do you foresee for yourself taping wise going into the future?  Do you see yourself taping more, less or about the same?   How married are you to the AD2k?  Have you considered the Edirol R09? 

[Digital Quality]

I've used it since about Feb. I don't have another 24b bucket to capture for comparing so I can't really help you there. It's been very reliable since I got the initial kinks out. All of my problems have been flash media related. Either I forgot to format with the right cluster size, or I forgot to format after each show, or I cheaped out and tried to make it work with off-brand flash. I normally run 88kHz which gives a little over 2 hours on a 4GB SD card, 96kHz would yield a little under 2 hours once you format the card with larger clusters.

As for which pda it probably doesn't matter much as long as you have the 624MHz PXA270 chip. The Dells have a nice extended 2.2AH battery option and they have a little smaller form factor. The extended battery bulges out the back though so the standard cases won't fit. I have not run it to the end yet but it will probably do 5 hours or so. You have to charge the battery in the unit though so multiple batteries are probably not going to be as good as a power runner setup. It runs off 5V and there is a nice little adapter included for the car charger or whatever that you can use to charge off a battery.

I think the HPs are a little cheaper but I don't have any experience with them.

The PDA is my #1 recorder right now. I used to run the JB3 or IRiver as backup truncating to 16 bits but that's not possible over 48kHz so I dropped it and jumped to 88kHz once I felt comfortable.

[JasonSobel]

i never said it was my only choice or the best choice, I was asking a question, of those who use pda's, whether it is stable for them and they have actually tested it themselves.

I love the vx pocket, but have never had a relaible solution for capturing the ad2k at 2496 (again, I essentially stopped taping in 03). wanted to revisit and see if the pda is a viable option or not. The sheer size and expense of the marantz/tascam units really turn me off. but if there was a good, small, reliable solution under $500, I'd be all about it.

a PDA setup can work nicely, as Steam Powered mentioned above.  you're not going to get too much more info about PDA recording, because not too many people use it.  the reason why not a lot of people use it is because it requires a lot of knowledge and time to get it set up just right.  perhaps you are willing to invest the time and effort to get it configured and working just right.  many people don't want or have the time to do that.

> if there was a good, small, reliable solution under $500, I'd be all about it.

yeah, you and tons of other people.  the fact is, right now, the only sub-$500 recorder with a digi input is the MicroTrack (and maybe a PDA setup, depending on configuration).  As you noted above, the MicroTrack is not rock-solid, and doesn't do seamless splits at 2GB.  I owned one for 9 months and got good use out of it, but I never trusted it 100%.

you say you are turned off by the size and cost of the Marantz and Tascam units.  as for the size of them, well, you're already running a V2 and an AD2K.  so it's not exactly like you're going stealth here.  you could set up either of these recorders (PMD-671 or HD-P2) to run vertically in a bag next to V2 and AD2K.  I don't see the size as a big deal.  but maybe you do.  and then the cost.  yes, they cost more than a MicroTrack or a PDA setup.  but they are both 100% reliable, with no worries, no configuration problems, no kinks to work out.  just turn it on and press record.  most people are willing to pay a little more for a recorder that's worry free and absolutely easy to operate.

[jerryfreak]

thanks steam, thats the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I'm willing to hack a bit to make it work, as long as the results are good.

and with regard to the v2>2k already being big, I generally run FOB when I do tape, and when I had a rig I used to run 64>V3>2k>vxpocket fob, and it was surprisingly small, when I was using the tiny sony vaio u3, it all fit inside of a camcorder bag, with batteries. Another large unit is not in my future.

also from my perspective, the v2>2k are there because of their sound, and they are the size they are. A properly working bit bucket sounds the same as any other, and theres no justification for the larger size.

I wish I could borrow a pdaudio CF card, I have no problem throwing down for a pda, but would like to limit my spending till I'm comfortable with the setup.

again, i dont really have a rig now, just my ad2k and vxpocket. But with the right setup, an ad2k and compact bit bucket becomes a great patcher rig with all of those unused v3 xlr outs

I've used it since about Feb. I don't have another 24b bucket to capture for comparing so I can't really help you there. It's been very reliable since I got the initial kinks out. All of my problems have been flash media related. Either I forgot to format with the right cluster size, or I forgot to format after each show, or I cheaped out and tried to make it work with off-brand flash. I normally run 88kHz which gives a little over 2 hours on a 4GB SD card, 96kHz would yield a little under 2 hours once you format the card with larger clusters.

[Digital Quality]

Maybe put up an ISO in the yard sale. I bet there are some closet users that maybe didn't get it going smoothly and  would like to unload their card.

[jerryfreak]

yeah, I'd rather try it from len for a refundable $200 then buy one for $100-$150 and then be stuck with it.

Maybe put up an ISO in the yard sale. I bet there are some closet users that maybe didn't get it going smoothly and  would like to unload their card.

[OFOTD]

yeah, I'd rather try it from len for a refundable $200 then buy one for $100-$150 and then be stuck with it.

Don't count on that from Len.  Many many bad experiences with Len from many many different people. 

[jerryfreak]

well, i did try one in the past, and successfully got my money refunded, but it took several months and many many calls and emails.

So I would assume that if Len is flaky these days, that driver support for that device has ceased? linux alsa driver is probably maintained independently of him

Don't count on that from Len.  Many many bad experiences with Len from many many different people. 

[OFOTD]

well, i did try one in the past, and successfully got my money refunded, but it took several months and many many calls and emails.

So I would assume that if Len is flaky these days, that driver support for that device has ceased? linux alsa driver is probably maintained independently of him

Don't count on that from Len.  Many many bad experiences with Len from many many different people. 

Honestly a couple of years ago I though of getting back into using that PDA card.  In the people having problems to the number without problems the dissatisfied seemed to be staggering when compared to those that were happy.  If you like hacking and working on problems for days on end it might be right up your alley.  Again for me i've grown very accustomed to just hitting record.      

For the record Len has not gotten any better with his customer service.  probably worse.

Gorden Guidluck (sp?) I know is a big proponent on the PDA setup as he develops one of the software packages for it.  I think he goes by live2496 here I think.  He may have a bunch of specific answers for you as well.

[live2496]

Just caught up with this thread tonight.

To respond to a few things mentioned...

Is the driver ok?
We had problems with the driver initially, and also I had buffering problems in my application (as did others). I have, however, managed to have it recording bit accurate for about two years now or thereabouts. The pocket pc driver is from pocket pc 2002, but it works because the cpu's in these systems are the same architecture as the 206mHz iPAQ's.

RE: flac
I recommend it only for 16-bit recording right now. It's flac level '0' because anything higher brings the cpu to it's knees.  So, even if you record to flac and save, say 40% space, you might want to re-encode to a higher level later.

The 24-bit encoding isn't what it should be yet. Josh Coalson mentioned that it was an issue with the design and something about the rice coder. Anyway he has the code written to fix it, but he won't publish it until some hardware manufacturers make appropriate changes. He doesn't want to break anything, so that's good. However, meanwhile we wait.

formatting:
I recommend formatting right on the pda. I use a program called Storage Tools for that and it just takes a few seconds to format a 4gb drive on the pocket pc. The largest cluster sizes (64kb) are recommended for pocket pc recording. But step down to 32kb if you need to for your card reader (or maybe get a new reader).

reliability:
It works. Start, stop all you want to. It's robust software. And it stops on frame boundaries, does seamless splits on frame boundaries and so forth. One customer records the Dallas Symphony. He runs a Tascam DV-RA1000 and uses the pda as a backup at 88.2kHz. (They downsample for CD's). He told me that on one occasion when he had a glitch due to a bad DVD media that he used the pda's file to fixup the recording. Needless to say that made my day... He runs an X51v and 4gb Transcend 150x media.

Now you can turn the screen off while recording and split to a new file at whatever pre-specified interval you wish. Anywhere from 10mb to 4000mb. Or, you can press the button on the front to split. It has a file fixup feature which fixes wav header information of any files on the current path.

The pocket pc may not be for everyone. But many of those that have them seem to like them.

What's my favorite pocket pc? Well, I have tested a few of them. The X51v, the hp hx2795, and the H2210 in that order. The X51v has the nicest display of all and 2200mAh battery option.

[meatling]

mine, which was bought shortly after launch by its original owner (i'm the 2nd), has performed flawlessly at 24 bit.  it sounds like your problem *could* of been related to a faulty adc on your particular box? 

I doubt it, because playback using the recorder was comparatively fine. It was just when you played the same files with anything else that you noticed something's wrong. Maybe you never exported your files to a DAW and that's why you didn't notice the flaw?

got any links?

No, I don't have any links. I still have some recordings I made back then, though.

m

[Digital Quality]

What's my favorite pocket pc? Well, I have tested a few of them. The X51v, the hp hx2795, and the H2210 in that order. The X51v has the nicest display of all and 2200mAh battery option.

The X50v works the same for recording, it has half the space for programs and the gfx are a little less awesome but the core processor is the same. Batteries and stuff are interchangeable between the 2 as well.


+t for good software.

[sygdwm]

mine, which was bought shortly after launch by its original owner (i'm the 2nd), has performed flawlessly at 24 bit.  it sounds like your problem *could* of been related to a faulty adc on your particular box? 

I doubt it, because playback using the recorder was comparatively fine. It was just when you played the same files with anything else that you noticed something's wrong. Maybe you never exported your files to a DAW and that's why you didn't notice the flaw?

got any links?

No, I don't have any links. I still have some recordings I made back then, though.

m

i seriously doubt that tim never looked at the wavs in an editor. again, thats 3 units between us that have had NO issues.