Topic: PCM-D50 problems

[SClassical]

Just received my Sony PCM-D50 today and tried to feed it with a range of digital signals from my V3 (optical).

When I pre-set the recorder to 24bit it will always show 16bit when I send a signal from my V3...It seems as if it cannot record a 24bit signal from a V3 even though the recorder was pre-set to 24bit.

Also it will ONLY show 44.1kHz and 48kHz.

So the only settings the PCM-D50 show are 16bit 44.1 and 16bit 48kHz via optical with the V3 (nothing else!).

Anyone know what is going on here?

[WiFiJeff]

This is exactly what Joe found from high-end A/D, and I found using a Mic2496.  If you record the digital signal, you will see the clock moving way too fast, and the playback will be down an octave or so and slow, so you do record 96kH, the machine just thinks it's 16/48.  When I imported the signal into Audacity as raw data as stereo 24/96 with a 31 bit offset i could recognize the real me-voice.  This sounds much like what the MT II is doing to V3 and other coax digital input, and may be due to a similar bit flag problem.  M-Audio is supposed to fix this in new firmware, I don't know what Sony plans to do.  Joe did record some analog-in to one D50 at 24/96, and then fed this into another D50, and that worked fine, so whatever flag is missing form the V3/Mic2496/etc. the Sony is outputting it.  I seem to recall a similar problem with the Fostex FR-2 or Marantz PMD 671 at high res, they fixed it with a firmware revision.  Fostex and M-Audio do firmware upgrades online, the Marantz hads to be sent in to the service center and I fear the Sony may be the same.

Jeff

[SClassical]

I know Joe had a few words with them about this issue...What really p***** me off is that they were too arrogant to admit there's a problem with their D50.

If M-Audio fixes the problem before Sony with a new firmware (which I think they will) I might end up getting the MTII. That is sad

Sort of disappointed because the whole reason for me to get the D50 was to record @24/96 with my V3 without complications.   

[WiFiJeff]

Okay, well here's some good news on the D50.  I have run it several times now with a normal 8GB pro duo memory stick and it works fine, it runs for 3 hours 53 minutes and makes four files (2GB, 2GB, 2GB and the 1.57GB to media full) with seamless splits.  I intend to use the HG pro duo when it comes out, but it's great that the normal pro duo will run.

Jeff

[Jppiano]

Hey, Guys

More than had words with them - I gave them specific information as to what equipment was feeding the machine and pointed out to them that the exact same problem was evident no matter what the source. As Jeff has pointed out, my symptoms are exactly the same as Simon's. I am going to call them after the 1st - meanwhile, I have Prism finding out about the 24 bit flag; I'll keep the group posted....

Joe

[SClassical]

http://www.bradlinder.net/2007/12/unboxing-sony-pcm-d50.html


Looks like someone else in another discussion forum is having problems, too.... Sony told the guy it's not their D50 that has the problem but the external digital converter's fault (from M-Audio).

[anhisr]

Grace is also working on a fix for the problem with the V3 and the MTII.  Maybe this will also fix the problem with the D50.  Stay tuned.

[spyder9]

Okay, well here's some good news on the D50.  I have run it several times now with a normal 8GB pro duo memory stick and it works fine, it runs for 3 hours 53 minutes and makes four files (2GB, 2GB, 2GB and the 1.57GB to media full) with seamless splits.  I intend to use the HG pro duo when it comes out, but it's great that the normal pro duo will run.

Jeff

Were you feeding the D50 a 24/48 signal via analog?  That is good news on the 8GB card.  They go for $85.00 shipped on eBay.     

[mrsoul]

Okay, well here's some good news on the D50.  I have run it several times now with a normal 8GB pro duo memory stick and it works fine, it runs for 3 hours 53 minutes and makes four files (2GB, 2GB, 2GB and the 1.57GB to media full) with seamless splits.  I intend to use the HG pro duo when it comes out, but it's great that the normal pro duo will run.

Jeff

I am assuming that is 24/48 for the 3 hour 53 min times.  Thanks for the info.  I had an 8Gb but took it back in fear it wouldn't work.  I'll pick up one of those before the Wanee to go with my HG 4Gb.  Nice to have 16Gb for the 2 day fest!  I will probably go 16bit with SBM for the festival and not even need to download any during the weekend.  Thanks again for the info +T.
mrsoulMark

[WiFiJeff]

Okay, well here's some good news on the D50.  I have run it several times now with a normal 8GB pro duo memory stick and it works fine, it runs for 3 hours 53 minutes and makes four files (2GB, 2GB, 2GB and the 1.57GB to media full) with seamless splits.  I intend to use the HG pro duo when it comes out, but it's great that the normal pro duo will run.

Jeff

Were you feeding the D50 a 24/48 signal via analog?  That is good news on the 8GB card.  They go for $85.00 shipped on eBay.     

I was feeding a line signal (analog) in, at 24/96, which uses roughly 2GB an hour, so my 8GB card gave me nearly four hours.  It was fed from an FM radio, I checked the file joins in Wavelab carefully but only sampled the rest of the four hours.  Since the FM signal was dynamically compressed, I could see the waveform was pretty uniform at -4 dB, no glitches or excursions to 0dB, and what I sampled was fine.  24/48 should give 8hours on the card, I might check that tomorrow.

Jeff

[SClassical]

Just got a message from Michael from Grace Design and this is what he said:

Hello Simon,
We have been made aware of problems with connecting the V3 to the
M-Audio MTII and I suspect the Sony unit you have is suffering from the
same issue.  It seems that these machines are requiring sample rate and
bit depth sub-code data in the digital audio stream to configure their
recording parameters.  When the V3s firmware was originally written this
was not a requirement for any equipment that was available at the time.
 Jamie has revised the firmware so that the V3 will transmit these
codes and this should solve the problem.  We are in the testing phase
right now and should have new firmware upgrades available shortly.  This
will be in the form of a simple socketed chip replacement and should not
take more than a couple of minutes to do in the field.
We will keep you up to date with the status on this and will send you
the new firmware as soon as it is available.
Thanks for your patience,
Michael


Thanks Michael!

[mrsoul]

So, seems the problem is the source not the PCM-50

[Belexes]

New title of thread:

V3 problem

[SClassical]

I wouldn't say V3 has the problem. It's just that time has changed. New recorders (like PCM-D50 and MTII) all of a sudden requires sample rate and bit depth sub-code data in the digital audio stream. No one knew this will happen. So I guess it's good news that Grace Design is updating their firmware so that their AD can be used with some of todays recorders.

Maybe the problem lies upon Sony (and M-audio) not considering the old AD, which did not send out these data in the audio stream.

EDIT: I know MTII will have a new firmware soon that will address this issue so you can run it on new and old AD. But for the D50, who knows if Sony will ever deal with this issue. Maybe the only prof AD you will be able to run with the D50 is the updated V3.

[Jppiano]

And, BTW, I think this is bullshit. Why the hell cant these manufacturers agree on a standard, and not create problems of this sort? The standard for at least 15 years for both AES and SP/DIF has not included subcode Sample Rate or Bit Depth information. Why is this necessary? Are they trying to make the machines idiot-proof? I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars sending 30K worth of converters overseas so that the manufacturers can do this ridiculous upgrade. Well, I guess I wont be recommending this machine to any pros (THAT will cost Sony plenty.....)

Joe P (Obviously pissed off!)