Topic: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII

[udovdh]

What is the recommended set of parameters to format a 4G SD card for the R09 with?
I mean FA-type, cluster size, backup FAT, etc, etc?
What gives the least chance of problems? (bigger clusters is better?)

[guysonic]

Actually the internal mic preamplifier is adequately quiet enough, but the internal mics themselves are NOT. The noise you hear are from the mics and maybe their power source, NOT the deck's preamplifier as far as I can tell.

See updated review for external input spectal graphs for this deck at: www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm

Interesting....which ones should I be comparing I'm confused

Regards Scott

You're not the first to find this comparison confusing.  All test were done with 1000 ohm dummy load at the inputs of R-09 mic jack and PA-3SX external preamplifier.

Best I can explain, the YELLOW trace is R-09 MIC input at 'HIGH" gain mode with REC level adjust setting at #22 (#30 is maximum) compared to best signal stage external preamplifier I know to design/build set at highest gain selection (PA-3SX external preamp is the green trace).  For the deck's preamp set in high mode and #22 REC level, both internal and external preamplifier are applying the same gain to the MIC input with REC adjust set at #18 when external preamp is connected. 

Under these conditions, if a mic was connected to either deck's mic input (the internal mic pre), or the external PA-3SX mic pre, the VU would read the same signal strength for identical loudness acoustic sound hitting the microphone, but the electrical input background noise (the electronics) would be at least 20 dB lower using the exteral preamplifier.   

Obviously, the external preamplifier is going into the deck's LINE input, while the internal MIC preamp of the R-09 is working from the MIC input on the deck. In other words, for the same applied mic input gain, the green trace shows the recorded background noise with custom designed external preamplifier verses the yellow trace showing the background noise of the internal R-09 mic pre with all input conditions being equal.

Same type comparison is done again with RED trace showing deck's internal preamp now set in LOW mic input mode with REC level adjustment set this time at #30 maximum, and now compared to the VIOLET trace made with PA-3SX pre set at lowest (of three) gain settings with adjusting the deck REC level setting to #18 so input signal gain is again equal for internal/external inputs.   This second set of traces (RED vs. Violet) shows at least 12 dB quieter input with the external preamplifier for equal applied mic input signal gain.

Even knowing much lower input noise is possible with special external preamp, the internal mic pre noise of the R-09 deck is NOT bad for general purpose recording with moderately high output microphones.

[tonyvt]

Actually the internal mic preamplifier is adequately quiet enough, but the internal mics themselves are NOT. The noise you hear are from the mics and maybe their power source, NOT the deck's preamplifier as far as I can tell.

See updated review for external input spectal graphs for this deck at: www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm

Interesting....which ones should I be comparing I'm confused

Regards Scott

You're not the first to find this comparison confusing.  All test were done with 1000 ohm dummy load at the inputs of R-09 mic jack and PA-3SX external preamplifier.

Best I can explain, the YELLOW trace is R-09 MIC input at 'HIGH" gain mode with REC level adjust setting at #22 (#30 is maximum) compared to best signal stage external preamplifier I know to design/build set at highest gain selection (PA-3SX external preamp is the green trace).  For the deck's preamp set in high mode and #22 REC level, both internal and external preamplifier are applying the same gain to the MIC input with REC adjust set at #18 when external preamp is connected. 

Under these conditions, if a mic was connected to either deck's mic input (the internal mic pre), or the external PA-3SX mic pre, the VU would read the same signal strength for identical loudness acoustic sound hitting the microphone, but the electrical input background noise (the electronics) would be at least 20 dB lower using the exteral preamplifier.   

Obviously, the external preamplifier is going into the deck's LINE input, while the internal MIC preamp of the R-09 is working from the MIC input on the deck. In other words, for the same applied mic input gain, the green trace shows the recorded background noise with custom designed external preamplifier verses the yellow trace showing the background noise of the internal R-09 mic pre with all input conditions being equal.

Same type comparison is done again with RED trace showing deck's internal preamp now set in LOW mic input mode with REC level adjustment set this time at #30 maximum, and now compared to the VIOLET trace made with PA-3SX pre set at lowest (of three) gain settings with adjusting the deck REC level setting to #18 so input signal gain is again equal for internal/external inputs.   This second set of traces (RED vs. Violet) shows at least 12 dB quieter input with the external preamplifier for equal applied mic input signal gain.

Even knowing much lower input noise is possible with special external preamp, the internal mic pre noise of the R-09 deck is NOT bad for general purpose recording with moderately high output microphones.

Hey Guy,

Thanks for the great review of the R-09 which is posted on your website. I have had my R-09 for just over a month now and found the line input to be very quiet. This is a great deck for patching from a board and it is also an excellent stealthing tool. It is great to see some figures and graphs that back up the great recordings I have made with it so far.

I have to admit that one of my greatest taping mishaps was selling a set of Sonic DSM's that I had purchased from you in the early/mid 90's. Those were some of the best made and cleanest sounding microphones I have ever taped with. Wish I still had them.

Keep up the good work!

Tony

[enaudible]

Having trouble with some .wav files. I know this has been addressed in a couple spots, but I was hoping for yet another explanation and maybe some corroboration of where the trouble is coming from.

I am running the Transcend 4 gb 150x card that has generally been trouble free from the sound of others' postings here. I am having an "unknown file type" issue when trying to open certain files in wavelab and other programs also having trouble. I tried using Audiohck to fix the header thingie but couldn't seem to get it to work (which may well be my ineptitude with it). Can someone direct me with either a simplified Audiohck walkthrough or suggestion for another program?

More details on the issue, if we can track it down for future reference... Most of my files are 24/48, some will open and play just fine. Occassionally I do get a "slow SD card" read on the R-09 at the beginning of the session, and I suspect this may be the culprit, though it did not occur to me to make note of which files that was happenning too. This does not always happen, and I'm not sure what is causing it. I was speculating that it may be when I boot up and go straight to record, perhaps the deck is still processing the card or something like that.

Also, I formatted to NTFS since it is supposed to be better for large file mgmt. Is this bad, is FAT32 better, is the R-09 definitely meant for FAT32? Sort of re-iterating another question posed above.

Anyway, the help and info I find here is awesome, so thanks ahead of time...

[udovdh]

More details on the issue, if we can track it down for future reference... Most of my files are 24/48, some will open and play just fine. Occassionally I do get a "slow SD card" read on the R-09 at the beginning of the session, and I suspect this may be the culprit, though it did not occur to me to make note of which files that was happenning too. This does not always happen, and I'm not sure what is causing it. I was speculating that it may be when I boot up and go straight to record, perhaps the deck is still processing the card or something like that.

Could part of the problem. I also noticed that a few seconds of waiting make a difference.

Also, I formatted to NTFS since it is supposed to be better for large file mgmt. Is this bad, is FAT32 better, is the R-09 definitely meant for FAT32? Sort of re-iterating another question posed above.

The R-09 does NTFS?
I did not yet know that.
I guess FAT32 is somewhat 'lighter' to handle?

Formatting the card before using it to record something could also help to avoid the 'slow SD card' messages.

[Nick's Picks]

fwiw...

beat a wand last night w/a r9 and battbox in my crotch.  wasn't wanded' right over the goods, but all around it.

[drewloo]

fwiw...

beat a wand last night w/a r9 and battbox in my crotch.  wasn't wanded' right over the goods, but all around it.

Nick, no one wants to hear about you beating your crotch wand, even if there was an r-09 down there..... oh, wait.  I misread it.  My apologies.   

It sounds like it might just be a true stealth recorder:

[gewwang]

My last time thru security using wands was with the R-09, Sax, interconnect and 4023s. The most metal is the XLRs on the mic cables and the wand doesn't ever go off. I've been stealthing like this with the R-1 instead of the R-09 for over a year and been thru at least 10 wands without a problem.

[prof_peabody]

My last time thru security using wands was with the R-09, Sax, interconnect and 4023s. The most metal is the XLRs on the mic cables and the wand doesn't ever go off. I've been stealthing like this with the R-1 instead of the R-09 for over a year and been thru at least 10 wands without a problem.

I think, after a few conversations about this with different tapers, that whether a wand detects your gear or not depends on how sensitive they set the wand.  FWIW I've set off the wands everytime at Verizon Wireless Theater in Houston with a few different rigs.  No one seems too intent on touching my crouch, so they let me in.

[olli]

So far, I had no problems with recording (Edirol R-09, 44.1 kHz, 16 bit, 2 GB Toshiba SD card).

Recently, while recording, the batteries (GP 2300 rechargeable NiMH) died after around 160 minutes.

I cannot open/play the resulting 1.7 GB wav file with the R-09, Windows Media Player, Real Player, Foobar2000, and Audacity; there was no problem transferring the file to the PC.

(1)  Is it normal that files are defective if a recording has been aborted like this?
(2)  Is there an EASY way to fix the file?

Thanks.

[udovdh]

Header was not (re)written. Import as raw.

[udovdh]

What is needed to make the display timer work?
I set it to 5 seconds, exit the menu and wait 6 seconds.
Nothing happens. 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

The display timer does not turn the display off.  It just dims the display to the lowest setting. You may not even notice the diff, especially if the display is already on dim.

It would be nice if the display could be dimmed even further than the current min, since it is pretty bright. And the ability to turn it completely off would be nice.

It is also pretty hard to see in bright sun.  Though I don't think I turned it up.

[udovdh]

Indeed.
If the range for dimming could be extended towards the darker direction...

What is the best way to contact Edirol with issues like these?
(just constructive info like the 4GB support that works almost 100%)

What about bigger than 4GB SD? Is it available?
If so: does it work?

[olli]

Header was not (re)written. Import as raw.

Thanks, sounds easy but is not for me (beginner): Any idea where I can find more info? Thanks a lot!