Topic: iso Mic Placement Recc's (live classical)

[TenoRichards]

Ok, I've been piddling around w/ my new toys for a while and am getting serious about making a demo. Here's what I'm using:

dpa4060's>mic2496>transit or audiophile usb>laptop

I'll be taping in the Columbia Artists Building which has a nice recital hall in it with little street noise, thank God. The space is aprox 50X75 w/ a raised stage where I'd stand w/ piano to record from. Room is nice wood floors/plaster walls. Good and ringy for my tastes.

I've been dickin' around w/ my rig to get a feel for it, and am learning by trial and error. You can hear some clips at http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorichards. These are mp3's, apologies, no space for lossless. Find the Faust Coaching Folder if you care to listen. These clips are actually the mic2496's signal into a jb3, so again, not optimal. For the ensuing demo, will go to laptop w/ Wavelab (gotta love wife's educators discount!)

My question: So far, I'm only clipping the mics to a music stand, which is only a 2ft split. Please give me your input on how wide the optimal split will be and how far from the source I should plan on placing them. In the above clips, the more clear ones are about 4 feet away, the other crappy sounding recordings (in a terribly live room) are at about 12 feet away. (That space was WAY to live, but wanted to hear how it would sound w/ more ambient sound.) Or, should I look into Moke's DIY mini j-disc?

be gentle to the N    B. Thanks you all. I continue to learn a lot.

[pfife]

paging Moke

[TenoRichards]

paging Moke

I ALREADY bug him too much!

[Tommy E.]

What about trying the Healy technique? 


you                piano

         <-------
         -------->

<, denotes the mic capsule   

[spcyrfc]

i recorded a classical quintet in healy recently.  i was back about 15 feet from the wind quintet and 20-25 from the piano.  i was pretty pleased with the outcome and on my playback system (a shotty boombox) there seems to be stereo seperation.

i am not sure how far you should be from the piano, but you should definently be in front of the piano.
it might be helpful to have a helper to tell you which distance sounds best, or self conducted sound check.

i dig the healy and from what Moke has told me in the past, i think it is next best to the Jecklin disc.  but there may be other options with widly split omni's

luke

[TenoRichards]

Andrew,

just you and the piano?

How much separation do you need/want?
I'd say that the J-Disc would be useful in providing a solid degree of stereo separation, but if its just you and a piano, what are you separating? Do you want to be in a single channel, and the piano in the other, or are you after a blending of signals?
The separated / spaced omnis will never be truly separated in signal, more so, that you will experience time delay, and signal intensity differences that help in placing a sound source in the recorded soundfield.
Two mic stereo recordings will never give you complete isolation booth separation capablility, just by the nature of techniques, (two mics in the same space, receiving same/similar signal).

With the J-Disc, and the mics tight to the face, you will at least achieve a nice tight stereo image of what you "portray" to it in the soundfield.

As per usual, I can't recommend the baffled omni techniques enough.

example of j-disc placement;

you     piano
      |
  j-disc baffle




Sarge is pestering to go to breakfast. I'll check back in a bit.

Hey guys, thanks for the comments. I really appreciate it. Hard separation doesn't seem like the best way to go. The soundfield is static and there are only 2 instruments (voice/piano). I want to create a simple stereo image, rather than orchestral where you'd want to pinpoint differing instruments. I want to get a nice mix between the instruments and the room's reverb, where no clarity is lost (e.g. too much room).

With the Healy, can you guys tell me how I would position the mics and how I might mount them to something to get the mics placed correctly. Can I afix them to basically any surface (like a music stand) w/ the dpa 4060 clips with the capsules facing outwards, or do the need to be in close proximity to each other?

Again, is there a ball park ratio that you guys use when going split omnis? Width to Distance from source? I think I can get them to about a 6 ft split.

Moke, btw. I got permission for you to tape the concert in March in San Diego. Looking forward to meeting you if you make it.

All the best to you guys. Much app'd
A

[TenoRichards]

I'm just going to wing it here, and say 6'-8' out and 2' split and about shoulder high. that height should keep you from getting floor reflection, get you a "view" into the piano, and be on level with your voice.
You are going to have to do a few takes though, to find your balance between voice, and instrument. The piano is going to be plenty loud. I think that will be the greater challenge, (though I do realize that you could likely relocate the piano using your voice alone,... ).
And if I was coming to set up for the circumstance, I would most certaainly be using the baffled option.

Interesting observations, Moke. Ok, then I'm going to baffle and see how they work. To clarify, I'd place the 4060 capsules facing forward, or do you recc. facing them out as you do on your j disc pix? (did you EVER get a digi camera yet? Dood! They would make yer life so EZ!) Can you explain what you mean by "Vertically Oriented Diaphragm?" Meaning the diaph. of the mic is going perpidicular to the cord? Just checking.

"Move piano w/ voice?" Hardly. I have YET to cause damage with my voice. My STAGE props are a different matter. Last month in Italy, I literally stabbed Carmen in the final scene. She yelped when we were staged that I was to FAKE...I repeat...FAKE stab her. But NOOOOO! I had to stab the poor woman in the thigh for REAL. Curtain came down then she lifts her skirt and had blood running down her. Holy Shit! Her husband nearly killed me. Several stitches later.....and lots of flowers from moi....she recouped. Singing is NOT a safe business!

[TenoRichards]

I can't help wondering what this might render:


GRAND PIANO (lid open in V direction)
 
<mics>

SINGER (singing in /\ direction)

What kind of stereo image would that sound like, do you suppose? If mics are so highly omni, wouldn't that give me  the highest amount of balance adjustment between singer and piano? (e.g. closer to piano, further from singer, and vice versa? Of course, I am wanting the final product to be mainly played on listeners speakers, not headphones. (I have a vision of some "blue hair" as we lovingly call our 'normal' listener in the classical industry w/ headphones on, and somehow it just doesn't quite jive.... But again, this recording is mostly for those that hire me, not for public release beyond my immediate fan base.)