Topic: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?

[jmz93]

Hi.

I sold my pair of 4060's just before the Pandemic, but kept my MMA-A interface.

I'm ready to return to taping.

Do you still recommend 4060's Core for stealth/low profile, and handling a wide range of SPL's?

I usually just run the two cables down the back of my shirt and tape the mics to my shoulders, no windscreens if I'm indoors.

I'm about to upgrade my phone, meaning I'll be USB C instead of Lightning®. Can I feed the MMA-A with USB-C to USB-B Mini without issue?
I believe it expects B mini... it's the little connector with two little bumps on one side.

Please PM or reply here if you wish. All my contact info on here is incorrect and I can't seem to figure out how to edit my profile.


Thanks

[jmz93]

I forgot to also ask which iOS app you're using for recording. I don't remember what I used to use with the MMA-A years ago. Simpler the better please, as long as it will save 24/96 wav.

[WiFiJeff]

I would suggest you try DPA for an answer, but my experience with them is not too hopeful.  The included micro USB to lightening cable is NOT a standard cable, when I had to replace it I found that ONLY the very expensive DPA cable or the cable that came with the Saramonic Smart V2M (an oafish clumsy rip-off that sorta looks like the MMA-A, but was sold online in places for a bit more than a DPA cable!) worked.  Even those cables that fit into the smallish MMA-A micro USB port and claimed to be "on the go" type failed.  DPA US didn't know anything about what cable you needed, and Saramonic never answered.  Maybe a simple lightening female to USB C male adapter for the end of the DPA cable will work, but I'd want to try it to be sure (maybe Apple has someone who will know if this should work, you need to power the MMA from the phone).  I vaguely recall that you could replace the included MMA-A USB micro to USB A cable with no problem, so I think this is an Apple thing.

The program I use is Apogee Metarecorder (the Rode Recorder program broke with an update to iOs and they never fixed it as far as I know).  This records 24/96 but you should save as CAF files since the program shuts down after 2 Gig when recording as wav.  I use Audacity to break out the CAF to wav files, which is pretty quick and easy.

By the way, it won't help in getting answers from DPA that the MMA-A was discontinued earlier this year.  I haven't seen a new product announced yet (but some places that carried the MMA-A and still have stock have raised the asking price).  If they come up with a 32 bit float version and/or 4 channels I'll be happy.  Anyone hear anything about a successor to the MMA-A?

[stl_oni]

I still love the DPA 4060/4061 with the DPA D:VICE MMA-A as a stealth taping device; it can't get any more smaller and the mics do an excellent job.

Instead of using some kind of adapter to USB-C (never tried it so far, good luck with that) you should try to find an old iPhone 5/5s or an old iPod touch you solely use for recording; they should be really cheap by now. That way you avoid any kind of interruption or distortion while recording and you can just start recording and leave the iPhone in your pocket.

I also use Apogee Metarecorder, highly recommended and you can record 96/24 with that in .caf format.

I have already broken two original usb-to-lightning cables for the DPA D:VICE MMA-A. Normal, cheap micro USB to Lightning cables do not work. What works (tested several times) is the SHURE AVM-LTG Micro-USB to Lightning cable (available in various lengths). This is very well available (at least in Germany) and costs a third of the original DPA cable. The cable also has the advantage that the Lightning connector is more stable than the original DPA cable.

Have fun and good luck with your return to taping.

[AdamHuston]

I still love the DPA 4060/4061 with the DPA D:VICE MMA-A as a stealth taping device; it can't get any more smaller and the mics do an excellent job.

Instead of using some kind of adapter to USB-C (never tried it so far, good luck with that) you should try to find an old iPhone 5/5s or an old iPod touch you solely use for recording; they should be really cheap by now. That way you avoid any kind of interruption or distortion while recording and you can just start recording and leave the iPhone in your pocket.

I also use Apogee Metarecorder, highly recommended and you can record 96/24 with that in .caf format.

I have already broken two original usb-to-lightning cables for the DPA D:VICE MMA-A. Normal, cheap micro USB to Lightning cables do not work. What works (tested several times) is the SHURE AVM-LTG Micro-USB to Lightning cable (available in various lengths). This is very well available (at least in Germany) and costs a third of the original DPA cable. The cable also has the advantage that the Lightning connector is more stable than the original DPA cable.

Have fun and good luck with your return to taping.

Agreed.  Love using mine.  Have not ran into an issue with the cable so far.  Will look into grabbing one of the Shure cables as a back up.

[Scooter123]

I've never recorded with an iPhone, and certainly not with quality microphones.  So I am following this thread with some interest, as I'd like to replace the recorder with an easy to stealth iPhone.  I owned the 4060s 15 years ago, and they were great omnis, perfect for small clubs, but for larger shows, one had to do stack tapes, as room and crowd noise was too prevalent.  So I have similar questions to the OP.

1.  Ideally, a pair of small cards (I own several Schoeps) would be perfect.  Is there anything smaller that is of equivalent quality?

2.  Cards generally require phantom power, so would the next gear in the chain be a small preamp?  I own a couple NBoxes and a Baby NBox, but I would need an interface from the Mikes to the Preamp.  Nick made me a Schoeps cord, but if a smaller cardioid is used, I suppose he could make me one.

3.  Next in the gear chain is the iPhone App.  Ideally record at 24bit in wave, but floating 32bit would be a bonus.  Also being able to access the levels and start the recording using an Apple Watch would also be a bonus for stealth purposes. 

[Gutbucket]

Scooter,  I'm not the OP, but will do my best to answer your questions-

1. The d:Vice MMA-A was specifically designed for use with the DPA miniature microphone line, and is the smallest high-quality recording arrangement I'm aware of.  In addition to the miniature omnis (4060/4061/4063, etc), DPA's miniature microphone line also includes their miniature cardioids and supercardioids.  Most of those are intended for mounting to instruments, some are podium and choir microphones.  Beyond proximity effect range those miniature directional tend to have somewhat reduced bass response, but sometimes that's just right, and other times I've had no problem boosting the bass a bit, as its there and smooth, just picked up with less sensitivity.  I use those in my main open rig, but in combination with the omnis.  For stealthing I like omnis and have not used the miniature directionals on their own, but others here at TS do and I like what I hear from their recordings.  That's one option for cardioids.

2. Sometime after the introduction the MMA-A, DPA changed their standard microphone line to make it modular, with separate caps + choice of a few different microphone amplifiers, similar to the way Schoeps CMC line works.  Most of those modular microphone amplifiers have a balanced XLR output requiring phantom power, but one is extremely compact and features and integrated cable terminating to microdot for low voltage powering.  The capsule end looks more or less like a side-exit Schoeps active cable.  Because all DPA microphones are pre-polarized electrets, even the larger line of capsules require only a low voltage supply to power them and don't require a high-voltage polarizing voltage from the microphone amplifier, which is the primary thing the NBox is providing.  This amplifier allowed use of the main line of DPA microphones with the MMA-A.  That makes for a rig consisting of microphone caps > mic-preamp-cable > MMA-A > phone.  So that's another option for cardioids, supercards or any pattern offered by DPA, using their primary line of high-quality caps.  This option will be about the same size as an active Schoeps setup at the microphone end, but with the smaller MMA-A in place of the NBox and a phone in place of the SD-card recorder.  You can't power your Schoeps caps with the MMA-A though.  It's only able to directly power pre-polarized capsules.

3. Recording in 32 bit float format will only be advantageous if the ADC doing the digitizing is a specialized multi-staged design capable of greater dynamic range.  Either the recording app would need to be designed to work specifically with an outboard multi-stage ADC (which could happen in a followup to MMA-A) using a digital connection between preamp/ADC and phone, or the analog input of the phone itself would need to be a multi-stage ADC, but since direct analog input to phones was never great and is for the most part discontinued (Grrr, just give me a headphone jack so I can used wired phones without an adapter) the second option is a dead end.

By the way, it won't help in getting answers from DPA that the MMA-A was discontinued earlier this year.  I haven't seen a new product announced yet (but some places that carried the MMA-A and still have stock have raised the asking price).  If they come up with a 32 bit float version and/or 4 channels I'll be happy.  Anyone hear anything about a successor to the MMA-A?

This is the first I've heard of the discontinuation of MMA-A.  I never got on the bus, primarily because I really didn't want to give up two of the four channels I'm currently recording to DR2d, and secondarily because I'm not an iphone user.. but would've bought an older one just for recording use if 4 or more channels were supported.  I'd be OK with a requirement for use with an external USB battery if necessary to power it and the phone in support of the additional channels if necessary.  Will be watching for what comes next.

[Gutbucket]

Do you still recommend 4060's Core for stealth/low profile, and handling a wide range of SPL's?

Getting back to you OP!

Yes, the DPA miniature omnis remain one of the better miniature omni options I'm aware of.  My DPAs are all the legacy versions. I've not used the newer CORE version but would if ordering new, and will whenever I need to replace my current miniature DPA omnis and directional mics.

Of the miniature omnis, 4060 is most sensitive, has the lowest self-noise and will have the hottest output. 4061 is less sensitive with a higher max SPL before distortion/clipping but with a somewhat higher self-noise.  I think the output level of 4061 is best matched to the MMA-A if you are mostly recording amplified stuff.  4060 will be the better choice for really quiet stuff like small ensemble classical stuff.

The CORE versions changes that relationship a bit.  As I recall, the new CORE 4060 appears to have about the same high SPL distortion threshold as the legacy 4061, although I think the max clipping threshold is still somewhat lower than 4061.  So in some cases, one might be able to use the new CORE 4060 in place of legacy 4061 and benefit from the lower noise floor.  But for most folks here at TS with a focus on recording amplified music in venues that have a higher ambient noise-floor, the CORE 4061 is probably the best fit.

As mentioned above in reply to others, DPA also offers miniature directional microphones now in addition to the miniature omnis.  They are about the same size as the omnis , except for a tiny interference tube in place of the interchangeable short/long grid on the omni.  I've noted a few different interference tube lengths, depending on the specific model and pattern of the mic.  The ones on my supercardioid-ish 4098H choir mics are maybe 1-3/4" to 2" long and are about the longest ones I've seen.  These are mostly intended for clamping onto instruments.  They are very clear with the typical DPA sound, but will have somewhat reduced bass response compared to some other cardioids, definitely so in comparison to the omnis.  They are smooth and can be easily EQ'd as needed though.  In a boomy room with over-active subs, the reduced low frequency sensitivity may be just the ticket.  Not as many tapers use the miniature DPA directionals as the omnis which have been around far longer.  One complication is that the directionals tend to be integrated into clips specific to instrument mouning, or include a miniature integrated flexible gooseneck section, and require a bit more creative adaptation for typical taper uses.

[Gutbucket]

The DPA 4063 miniature omni is the interesting one..  It has the same sensitivity and max SPL as 4061, but requires a powering voltage of only 3V (rather than the others needing about 2X that voltage) which enables it to work directly into some recorders providing PIP, without using an external battery battery box or preamp that supplies 6-9V.

I'm very curious about the possibility of using 4063 into the new, very inexpensive SoundProfessionals SP-SAPM-1. which provides PIP powered stereo microphone input to either USB-C or lightning connector.  That's MMA-A like functionaly for only $50.  I don't expect DPA quality from it, but who knows.  It doesn't produce enough PIP voltage to properly power 4060/4061, the miniature DPA directionals, or the premium DPA capsules, but should work with 4063's.

Waiting on more reports about it from TS members. One thing is certain. 4063 > SO-SAPM-1 > phone (USB-C) would be smallest and easiest to stealth external mic rig I've ever come across.

[rocksuitcase]

I still love the DPA 4060/4061 with the DPA D:VICE MMA-A as a stealth taping device; it can't get any more smaller and the mics do an excellent job.

Instead of using some kind of adapter to USB-C (never tried it so far, good luck with that) you should try to find an old iPhone 5/5s or an old iPod touch you solely use for recording; they should be really cheap by now. That way you avoid any kind of interruption or distortion while recording and you can just start recording and leave the iPhone in your pocket.

I also use Apogee Metarecorder, highly recommended and you can record 96/24 with that in .caf format.

I have already broken two original usb-to-lightning cables for the DPA D:VICE MMA-A. Normal, cheap micro USB to Lightning cables do not work. What works (tested several times) is the SHURE AVM-LTG Micro-USB to Lightning cable (available in various lengths). This is very well available (at least in Germany) and costs a third of the original DPA cable. The cable also has the advantage that the Lightning connector is more stable than the original DPA cable.

Have fun and good luck with your return to taping.

Seconded for MEta Recorder. kindms uses it for live recording and I have it as an app on my phone so we can share raw files.

Scooter: yes, you need a pre-amp or the type of mics Gut is speaking of to go into an iPhone. kindms is using a Sonasax M2D2 which is also very small and makes for a REAL small rig. (so he goes: mics > sonasax > iPhone}|metarecorder)

[Gutbucket]

The Sonoax M2D2, the DPA MMA-A, SoundProfessionals SO-SAPM-1, and presumably a few others including the Saramonic Smart V2M WifiJeff mentions all fit into the category of providing [preamp>ADA>digital-output-to-phone] in one small unit, which is very convenient for recording into a phone. Beyond that their quality and capabilities range rather widely.

The M2D2 is very cool in that it provides phantom power and balanced inputs, allowing you to use pretty much any high-quality phantom powered balanced output mics you like.. with Sonosax build and sound quality.  Not surprisingly, its the most costly.

The DPA D:VICE MMA-A is intended to be specific to DPA mics, but others have used it to power alternate microphones.  It's an unbalanced 2-wire connection providing low voltage power.  So it can be used with DPA mics.. or possibly things like 2-wire miniature ATs, miniature Senns, and other small 2-wire lavaliere type mics if they are adapted to its microdot inputs, and may additionally require some other adaptations. I know its use with some non DPA microhones requires a resistor to present the correct impedance to the MMA-A. The miniature Neumann cardioids are one example of that.  Its something like half the cost of the Sax.

The other two are cheapo's.  I know little of the Saramonic Smart V2M other than recalling it from conversations here, and fully accept WifiJeff's assessment of it being oafish.

The SoundProfessionals SO-SAPM-1 is the newest one.  I've only briefly heard one sample of it, posted recently to TS using Church Audio mics IIRC.  I didn't do any critical listening, but on a brief listen the recording sounded like a typical well made Church Audio mic recording with no obvious problems. That alone piqued my interest as it's just $50.  It basically looks like a wired headphone adapter - just a short TRS jack cable extending from a small fob box at the phone connector end.  I'd definitely want to use a short USB-C or Lightning extender cable to eliminate stress on the phone's port though.

[detroit lightning]

Former D:vice user here...lots of good info thus far.

All I'll add is that I'd stick with the 406x line. I tried the 606x line when they were released, and while they were good...the even smaller size was really unnecessary. So that, plus the additional cost...I'd just keep rolling with the 4061s.

Hoping they have an iphone usb-c solution...but if not, make sure to snag as new of a phone with a lightning port as you can (you should have a good bit of time)! You can always use a magsafe charger to keep it juiced up if the battery starts to go.

[Gutbucket]

All I'll add is that I'd stick with the 406x line. I tried the 606x line when they were released, and while they were good...the even smaller size was really unnecessary. So that, plus the additional cost...I'd just keep rolling with the 4061s.

Thanks for that. I've been interested in following up with you about your thoughts on 606x ever since you posted about going that route. Your comment confirms my initial assumption, but I didn't really have anything to base that on other than speculation until reading this.


..And my apologies to the OP for going OT with the discussion of alternates to MMA-A.

[kindms]

id simply add that the sonosax M2D2 serial above 00300 (im almost positive thats the correct #) has the ability to now power electrect mics by changing the power output in software if thats of value to folks

i really dig it and its become my go to rig. the V3 is getting jealous

[WiFiJeff]

Hoping they have an iphone usb-c solution...but if not, make sure to snag as new of a phone with a lightning port as you can (you should have a good bit of time)! You can always use a magsafe charger to keep it juiced up if the battery starts to go.

I have a portable magsafe charger, works fine.  But with my old iPhone Xr I get about 11 hours recording at 24/96, have never needed to use external power.  When the internal battery dies, and no lightening iPhones still roam the earth,  I hope an update to the MMA-A will come along.

[detroit lightning]

Thanks for that. I've been interested in following up with you about your thoughts on 606x ever since you posted about going that route. Your comment confirms my initial assumption, but I didn't really have anything to base that on other than speculation until reading this.


..And my apologies to the OP for going OT with the discussion of alternates to MMA-A.

Yeah, I never got too scientific with the comparison - but my high level view was ultimately that I preferred the 4 series sound more than the 6, although it was pretty close / potentially dependent on the circumstances of the recording.

The size of the 6s was pretty mind blowing, but like I said earlier…for our purposes it wasn’t really necessary.

[aaronji]

I hope an update to the MMA-A will come along.

While I have zero evidence, I suspect that they will come out with a new model. The writing was on the wall as far as Apple's transition to USB-C, so I would guess they might do a re-design around that. I think the MMA-A sold pretty well and DPA must see the value in expanding their market beyond iPhones. Pure conjecture, though.

[WiFiJeff]

  I vaguely recall that you could replace the included MMA-A USB micro to USB A cable with no problem, so I think this is an Apple thing.

Just tested this out with my android LG phone, any old micro USB (that fits into the MMA-A enclosure) to USB C cable works fine, using USB Audio Recorder Pro I can record at 24/96.  But without the MMA-A app (iPhone only) you can't reset levels on the MMA-A, you have to use an iPhone to lock the levels you want first.  I haven't played around with this ever.  By the way, this summer's update of USB Audio Recorder Pro lets it record 32 bit float, if your device outputs that (hint to DPA?).

Jeff

[Scooter123]

I would love an Apple App that records at 24 bit with four channels, so I can record an audience with either an ALD or and IEM and have them synched.  Is that possible?  Bonus for an interface with an Apple Watch to start the recording and change levels. 

[Gutbucket]

Possible, yes quite. Hopeful, check. Its the additional channels that I is the most wishful part.

How would I redesign it?  DPA, are you lurking?

1) Arrange the inputs parallel to each other rather than radial (simple).
2) Two USB-C ports.  The second used for battery input..
3) ..and for chaining multiple units together for additional channels, 2 channels each unit. Stack them. Battery input to the last unit in the chain.
^^^ This, this, this!

That's it.

Ok, might as well add a few nice to have but not really necessary things:
5) Locking stereo mini-plug TRS input as alternate input option in addition to 2X microdot.
6) 32 bit float.

[jbell]

It would be nice if they did a new MMA that could be used with a phone or small recorder.

[Scooter123]

The SonoSax has XLR inputs, which is way to big for stealthing, at least in my experience.  Something along the lines of the Baby NBox is way smaller. 

[rocksuitcase]

The SonoSax has XLR inputs, which is way to big for stealthing, at least in my experience.  Something along the lines of the Baby NBox is way smaller.

mini XLR (TA3)    https://sonosax.ch/product/sx-m2d2/

Inputs / Outputs

    2x mic/line inputs on TA3, electronically balanced, with phase reversal, 48V phantom, LF cut and level control
    1x AES3/AES42 on TA3, transformer balanced input with phase reversal and level control
    1x line output on TA3, 2 channels analog unbalanced
    1x AES3 output on TA3, 2 channels transformer balanced with ASRC (48/96/192k)
    1x USB audio 2 channels input/output on micro USB type C connector
    independent line/headphones stereo output on mini-jack
   

[breakonthru]

Seconded for MEta Recorder. kindms uses it for live recording and I have it as an app on my phone so we can share raw files.

Scooter: yes, you need a pre-amp or the type of mics Gut is speaking of to go into an iPhone. kindms is using a Sonasax M2D2 which is also very small and makes for a REAL small rig. (so he goes: mics > sonasax > iPhone}|metarecorder)

1. when you mean sharing, do yo umean like airdropping?
2. as far as feeding other mics into a d:vice, if its anything that needs a special power supply like schoeps etc its kind of overkill (and expensive), vs a cheaper, smaller, more battery efficient, more reliable A10. the sax obviously has phantom and 5V PIP and thus can power basically anything with the right mic bodies (real phantom). but any of the active boxes like nbox/tinybox etc, d:vice cant do that (elegantly)

[Gutbucket]

Although I don't mean to speak for Rocksuitcase, pretty sure he means the ability to use the raw files that were recorded to one phone on another without requiring conversion. The method of transfer between the phones is irrelevant.

2. as far as feeding other mics into a d:vice, if its anything that needs a special power supply like schoeps etc its kind of overkill (and expensive), vs a cheaper, smaller, more battery efficient, more reliable A10. the sax obviously has phantom and 5V PIP and thus can power basically anything with the right mic bodies (real phantom). but any of the active boxes like nbox/tinybox etc, d:vice cant do that (elegantly)

That's very much an apples and oranges comparison, and incorrect or irrelevant in a number of ways.

First we should clarify what is meant by "active".  The only boxes that quality as being "active" in the way that term is used by Schoeps and around TS, are those which supply high-voltage to externally polarized microphone capsules, eliminating the microphone amplifier bodies.  Those include: nbox, baby nbox and tinybox (depending on configuration), maybe some other Naiant devices, and certain Schoeps preamps that I'm only vaguely familiar with and aren't really relevant here.  All of these are "active" solutions which do not require any power being supplied from the recorder. (FYI- depending on configuration, Naiant PFA can also be an "active" solution which eliminates the microphone amplifier bodies, yet requires phantom power from the recorder, making it irrelevant to this discussion)

The others, including MMA-A, are not "active" in the same sense, as they are incapable of powering externally polarized capsules, including Schoeps. MMA-A is not "overkill" for Schoeps mics, it is a "no kill" - it will not work at all because it is unable to power them.

MMA-A can, however, provide a very similar solution to "active" boxes for tapers using standard interchangeable DPA capsules. This is because all DPA capsules are pre-polarized and do not require any external polarization supply.  This requires a special DPA amplifier/cable that looks similar to, and essentially serves a similar practical role as an "active cable".
^
That's not the typical use of MMA-A though.  Most folks will be using DPA miniature microphones connected directly to the MMA-A.

The M2D2 is an entirely different animal.  Its a full featured external preamp/ADC, for use with complete microphones.  It is not "active" in that it is unable to provide polarizing voltage directly to capsules. Yes, you could plug a pair of PFAs configured to power an "active" microphone setup in to it, but that's not relevant to this discussion.

[Gutbucket]

Probably better to frame it differently-

One category is recording to a phone. This requires USB or Lightning output.  Examples: MMA-A, M2D2, SO-SAPM-1, Smart V2M

An separate category is active powering of microphone capsules. Examples: NBox, Baby Nbox, Tinybox.

There is no preamp of which I'm aware that fits both of these categories without additional gear. MMA-A + non-miniature DPA caps achieves this in a practical sense, but is constrained to using the new modular DPA mics and is not technically "active".  M2D2 can do it with the addition of appropriately configured PFAs but gets bulky and includes significant metal stuff.

[Gutbucket]

The tl:dr-
Currently, stealth recording to a phone requires microphones that operate from a low, PIP-like, voltage unless using DPA mics.  Stealth recording using externally polarized microphone caps requires an analog input recorder. 

[kindms]

The SonoSax has XLR inputs, which is way to big for stealthing, at least in my experience.  Something along the lines of the Baby NBox is way smaller.

the m2d2 is about the size of a pack of smokes

[jefflester]

The SonoSax has XLR inputs, which is way to big for stealthing, at least in my experience.  Something along the lines of the Baby NBox is way smaller.

the m2d2 is about the size of a pack of smokes

A little bigger than that, though still quite compact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en_bYgF1pTs

[WiFiJeff]

the m2d2 is about the size of a pack of smokes

Well, only if you smoke lead cigarillos.  It's pretty solid, plus you will need a couple of TA3-F to XLR3-F cables for most normal phantom powered mics.  I've worn it to feed an iPhone, but it's pretty massy and only for places with zero security.

[breakonthru]

Although I don't mean to speak for Rocksuitcase, pretty sure he means the ability to use the raw files that were recorded to one phone on another without requiring conversion. The method of transfer between the phones is irrelevant.

as far as a phone, yes. audacity opens .caf fine on any platform it runs on

2. as far as feeding other mics into a d:vice, if its anything that needs a special power supply like schoeps etc its kind of overkill (and expensive), vs a cheaper, smaller, more battery efficient, more reliable A10. the sax obviously has phantom and 5V PIP and thus can power basically anything with the right mic bodies (real phantom). but any of the active boxes like nbox/tinybox etc, d:vice cant do that (elegantly)

That's very much an apples and oranges comparison, and incorrect or irrelevant in a number of ways.

First we should clarify what is meant by "active".  The only boxes that quality as being "active" in the way that term is used by Schoeps and around TS, are those which supply high-voltage to externally polarized microphone capsules, eliminating the microphone amplifier bodies. 

well he said on the last page he owns schoeps and several active boxes, so thats what i was responding to, specifically

MMA-A is not "overkill" for Schoeps mics, it is a "no kill" - it will not work at all because it is unable to power them.

well i meant it is overkill because it can only serve as a line-in (or mic-in with no power). In that role it has no clear advantage to an A10 as i mentioned in that post. whoever is using it with schoeps is using it with an external power supply at minimum. the pre and ADC is probably better than any other handhelds (sax aside at twice the price), so for those who have the setup, it can work, but anybody with an nbox or tinybox or ipa with a decent clean gain stage would do just as well easier and cheaper dumping the line-in into an A10 than using an mma with an iphone which is two pieces with extra cabling and less reliable than an a10... at 1/3 of the price.

[breakonthru]

I would love an Apple App that records at 24 bit with four channels, so I can record an audience with either an ALD or and IEM and have them synched.  Is that possible?  Bonus for an interface with an Apple Watch to start the recording and change levels.

the go-to metarecorder has an apple watch app. there are several 4(+) channel recording apps for ios but your problem is the interface. nothing small exists. smallest multichannel ios interface i can think of is the teenage engineering unit. the rest are all desktop/halfrack units like the motus. between the phone and the interface you are back to the tascam dr-2d which is compact, reliable, and (nowadays considered)bulky but mostly plastic.

[Gutbucket]

well i meant it is overkill because it can only serve as a line-in (or mic-in with no power). In that role it has no clear advantage to an A10 as i mentioned in that post. whoever is using it with schoeps is using it with an external power supply at minimum. the pre and ADC is probably better than any other handhelds (sax aside at twice the price), so for those who have the setup, it can work, but anybody with an nbox or tinybox or ipa with a decent clean gain stage would do just as well easier and cheaper dumping the line-in into an A10 than using an mma with an iphone which is two pieces with extra cabling and less reliable than an a10... at 1/3 of the price.

Agreed.  Just to clarify for others reading, use of MMA-A as line-in or mic-in for microphones other than DPA is a hack and doesn't reflect its intended standard usage, so be aware of the implications and potential complications there.  I only aware of one taper using MMA-A in that way, primarily in support of hacked miniature Neumann cardioids (with a quite clever and well implemented solution).  I'm unaware of anyone using it with Schoeps, which as you say.would require a separate power source such as nbox, tinybox, etc. ahead of the MMA-A used as a line-in device.  Such non-standard arrangements can be made to work for folks adept in messing around with this kind of stuff, but its not a plug-n-play solution that works out of the box.

[Gutbucket]

[snip..] but your problem is the interface. nothing small exists. smallest multichannel ios interface i can think of is the teenage engineering unit. the rest are all desktop/halfrack units like the motus. between the phone and the interface you are back to the tascam dr-2d which is compact, reliable, and (nowadays considered)bulky but mostly plastic.

The world is in need of a small no-frills multichannel USB interface!  It could rather easily be packaged as a small dongle with several inputs. Doesn't need any physical controls on it.  We can handle the mic powering separately.  Essentially what the DR2d offers, which unfortunately remains unique.

[kindms]

the m2d2 is about the size of a pack of smokes

Well, only if you smoke lead cigarillos.  It's pretty solid, plus you will need a couple of TA3-F to XLR3-F cables for most normal phantom powered mics.  I've worn it to feed an iPhone, but it's pretty massy and only for places with zero security.

my point was guys get much larger rigs in to shows all the time. i dont stealth and have mine in a sled but its still pretty small

[grawk]

small heavy things aren’t particularly hard to get past venue security.

[jmz93]

Thanks everybody for all the great replies!

Since nothing exists that is quite as low profile as what I have now, I am going to keep my iPhone 8 Plus simply for taping, and invest in another pair of sub-miniatures. psst. Anybody selling Core 4060's or 4061's?
I'll look for a couple replacement cables as well to replace the DPA Lightning-to-USB ccable, again based on your recommendations.

[AdamHuston]

Just had a cable fail 3 songs into show the other night.  The cable that failed was the original that came with the MMA-A.  I will be ordering multiples of the Shure cable recommended. 

[jmz93]

I emailed DPA asking about the D:Vice MMA-A and USB_C. Here's what they said.

"If the customer prefers not to change the setup, I would strongly recommend sticking with the current version of iPhone. While we haven't had the opportunity to test the new iPhone 15 yet, we anticipate that with the microUSB-to-USBC cord, the MMA-A will operate as a sound card for the iPhone - just as it does when used with computers and iPads. However, please note that the app for the iPhone may have limited or no functionality.

Please be aware that the MMA-A was discontinued in June 2023. As a result, DPA will not be releasing any further updates for the device or the app."

So does that mean you just won't be able to adjust gain?
I don't remember the DPA app actually doing much.

Then I asked Shure about USB-C cable options for the Motiv accessories, since someone here recommended their cable as a more rugged cable than the one that comes with the MMA-A. They said:
"Thanks for contacting Shure. We offer our AMV-USBC already! It is readily available for purchase here: https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/amv-usbc15?variant=AMV-USBC15

So, what happens if you use that cable with an iPhone 15 and the MMA-A? Will the DPA app refuse to work with the MMA-A because it doesn't detect a lightning port?

[flohma]

As a new owner of the iPhone 15 with USB-C and longtime owner of an MMA-A, I have the same issue and just tried the Amazon Basics Micro USB to USB-C cable and the dpa 4560 binaural headset. While it gets a signal into Metarecorder, the dpa App for MMA-A is not responsive. I don‘t know whether to put that down to the cable or the app but will experiment further. Has anyone else tried other cables with the above combination?

[tapeman]

The DPA 4063 miniature omni is the interesting one..  It has the same sensitivity and max SPL as 4061, but requires a powering voltage of only 3V (rather than the others needing about 2X that voltage) which enables it to work directly into some recorders providing PIP, without using an external battery battery box or preamp that supplies 6-9V.

I'm very curious about the possibility of using 4063 into the new, very inexpensive SoundProfessionals SP-SAPM-1. which provides PIP powered stereo microphone input to either USB-C or lightning connector.  That's MMA-A like functionaly for only $50.  I don't expect DPA quality from it, but who knows.  It doesn't produce enough PIP voltage to properly power 4060/4061, the miniature DPA directionals, or the premium DPA capsules, but should work with 4063's.

Waiting on more reports about it from TS members. One thing is certain. 4063 > SO-SAPM-1 > phone (USB-C) would be smallest and easiest to stealth external mic rig I've ever come across.

I was thinking about going with something like this and the SO-SAPM-1 is on sale right now, but I don't have the budget for the 4063 at the moment. Do you happen to know of some cheaper alternatives that only require 3V?

[Gutbucket]

Not sure. I always use a preamp or PFA with them myself.  Search around TS for mics folks are successfully using direct into handheld digital recorders, as typically the PIP voltage they provide is going to be right around what the SO-SAPM-1 provides.

Sound Professionals has mics that will work, but not sure how they compare in terms of quality.  Maybe check the powering requirements of the miniature Sennheiser omnis (MKE2 and the like) which have good quality and might operate correctly with lower voltage powering.

Generally, if they do work, before the mics stop working at a low enough supply voltage they will loose headroom and distort at lower max SPL . 

[breakonthru]

i dont think the 4063 is as much as they claim. its a bit de-rated for the lower voltage (6dB less on max spl vs the same sensitivity 4061 in current CORE version) , not really convinced it works any better with the common 2-2.5V PIP than the 5V versions at a given SPL

[aaronji]

i dont think the 4063 is as much as they claim. its a bit de-rated for the lower voltage (6dB less on max spl vs the same sensitivity 4061 in current CORE version) , not really convinced it works any better with the common 2-2.5V PIP than the 5V versions at a given SPL

Any evidence to support that or just shooting from the hip?

[breakonthru]

i dont think the 4063 is as much as they claim. its a bit de-rated for the lower voltage (6dB less on max spl vs the same sensitivity 4061 in current CORE version) , not really convinced it works any better with the common 2-2.5V PIP than the 5V versions at a given SPL

Any evidence to support that or just shooting from the hip?

how would you propose testing this? i have 4060,4061, and 4063 and a handful of the 2-2.5V PIP recorders, but no calibrated loud sound source

[aaronji]

Right, so purely speculative...

[breakonthru]

well yeah, based on specs and the common understanding that lower voltage reduces max spl i dont think thats a stretch

assuming this mic that wants 3V would work any better with a 2-2.5V PIP vs a 4061that wants 5V is also completely speculative, absent actual testing.

just saying anybody who invests in these thinking it will work better with those inputs, should understand that at present that is an untested combination.

And even if they worked completely to 3V-powered spec will still never handle the SPL a 4061 can, per DPA's own spec

[aaronji]

well yeah, based on specs and the common understanding that lower voltage reduces max spl i dont think thats a stretch

assuming this mic that wants 3V would work any better with a 2-2.5V PIP vs a 4061that wants 5V is also completely speculative, absent actual testing.

just saying anybody who invests in these thinking it will work better with those inputs, should understand that at present that is an untested combination.

And even if they worked completely to 3V-powered spec will still never handle the SPL a 4061 can, per DPA's own spec

Even by the specs, the difference in SPL handling isn't so huge. 10% is a lot. The 1% numbers (I think max SPL is usually spec'ed at either 0.5% or 1%) are a lot closer (no difference for the legacy and 2 dB for the core). Not a real concern anyway, unless you are close mic'ing a pretty loud instrument.

Not untested. Presumably, DPA tested it. Sure, manufacturers aren't always completely honest, but probably more reliable than "some dude speculating on the internet".

[breakonthru]

i dont recall having that opinion before i had one so perhaps i did test it when i got it and it didnt do what i expected, thats neither here nor there

i will stand with my original point that i dont "think" and "am not convinced" it works any better with PIP input. something that DPA certainly did not test as none of the handheld recorders have 3V. No tapers are using the 3-5V transmitters they were designed for, so as of now... that setup is most certainly untested

ill tell ya what... i have a 4063 (several hundred dollars). why dont you pony up $19 for the 3.3V SP dongle mentioned earlier in the thread so some dudes on the internet can generate a real test?

[aaronji]

i dont recall having that opinion before i had one so perhaps i did test it when i got it and it didnt do what i expected, thats neither here nor there

i will stand with my original point that i dont "think" and "am not convinced" it works any better with PIP input. something that DPA certainly did not test as none of the handheld recorders have 3V. No tapers are using the 3-5V transmitters they were designed for, so as of now... that setup is most certainly untested

ill tell ya what... i have a 4063 (several hundred dollars). why dont you pony up $19 for the 3.3V SP dongle mentioned earlier in the thread so some dudes on the internet can generate a real test?

Well, the reasonably popular MixPre recorders from SD spec 3V on the 3.5 mm input. The PMD620 is somewhere between 3 and 5.

"ill tell ya what": you're the one speculating on the web. Why don't you convince everyone that DPA is full of crap and internet speculation guy is right?

[breakonthru]

I'm not sure why you're responding in such a hostile manner. i never asserted DPA is "full of crap" or even that their specs were at all erroneous, thats quite an odd thing to make up. ill repeat what i said, for clarity:

"not really convinced it works any better with the common 2-2.5V PIP than the 5V versions at a given SPL"

none of the recorders you mention are anything like the ones i mentioned, the discussion was entirely about using 4063s with handheld/stealthable recorders with PIP under 3V, not those bricks. was talking about the A10/R07/DR2D/R09/LS10, etc

im sure those mics work to spec with the 3-5 V PIP in the large recorders you mentioned, but that's pretty immaterial to the discussion we were having

[aaronji]

Well, immaterial to the discussion you are having...

I am not being hostile. All I wanted to know is if you had anything to support your assertion or if it was purely speculative. The answer is pretty clear.

Any evidence to support that or just shooting from the hip?

[daspyknows]

This dialogue sure reminds me of someone else. 

[breakonthru]

This dialogue sure reminds me of someone else.

eh just garden variety trolling, esp harping on the same thing after i told him three times it was speculation

no harm, no foul, heres a test with an A10

the L/R channel test was 4063core on the left channel while 4061 legacy on the right, using a microdot Y to 1/8" stereo adapter. the 4063 performed admirably


the single channel test was a 4060 core that was already wired to miniplug

[breakonthru]

another test with a sony voice recorder that i believe is 2.2V? id have to measure

complete fail on the 4063

[daspyknows]

This dialogue sure reminds me of someone else.

eh just garden variety trolling, esp harping on the same thing after i told him three times it was speculation

You know who/what I am talking about. 

[breakonthru]

No interest in whatever that is.

Here's M10. Some slight asymmetry in 4061 but more or less same as 4063

[Grimod]

What's the current status of efforts to get the DPA MMA-A working with an iPhone 15?

Thanks

[flysquirrel]

I have a partial answer to the "What's the current status of efforts to get the DPA MMA-A working with an iPhone 15?" answer.

I have an MMA and use it regularly with my iPhone 13.  This week a buddy of mine let me play with his new iPhone 15.  Here is what I learned.

A standard USB Micro to USB C cable connected between the MMA and the iPhone 15 did not allow the DPA app to see the MMA device.  The DPA app was basically locked out and no controls worked.  However, when I then launched the Shure MoTiv app that app did register the MMA device and the mics plugged in.  That set up though uses the default mic pre settings on the DPA app, so the gain was by default set way too high for a high SPL concert recording.

I tried the same test using my regular DPA cable and a lightning to USB C adaptor.  Exact same results.  The DPA app didn't see the MMA, and therefore I could make gain changes, select filter presets, or engage the filters.  But again, downstream, the Shure Motiv app recognized the external USB device and I was able to make a clean recording.  Unfortunately though, the gain is set to high in the DPA app by default for this to be a workable solution.

[grawk]

if you set the gain lower and turn off the low cut, and then plug it into the iphone 15, do the settings stick?

[flysquirrel]

if you set the gain lower and turn off the low cut, and then plug it into the iphone 15, do the settings stick?

The challenge is that without the DPA app detecting the MMA, the app interface doesn't respond to anything.  So, in my limited testing, there was no way to turn down the default gain in the DPA app with or without the MMA attached.  But, as noted above, other apps did see the device and registered level.  Very annoying! 

[grawk]

I mean, set the MMA up on another phone, then move it to the iPhone 15. Theoretically the gain will be whatever you left it at.

[flysquirrel]

I mean, set the MMA up on another phone, then move it to the iPhone 15. Theoretically the gain will be whatever you left it at.

Because I always have my MMA set at 0 gain if your hypothesis was correct t wouldn't have appeared at higher gain when I connected it to the iPhone 15.  I don't think the app is a reflection of the existing hardware settings, but rather the other way around,  the app dictating the gain.

[opsopcopolis]

Interesting. I’ve just been using my recorder app to set gain for the MMA, but wonder if that just means I actually have it set to 0 on the device itself