Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording  (Read 1338 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3587
Even though the examples used in this site are Classical/Concert music, I think anyone who does any sort of music recording will learn a lot from these beautifully done experiments of Kazuya Nagae at Nagoya University of the Arts in Japan.

http://kazuyanagae.com/

Each installment under The Experiment of Recording has illustrated photos and diagrams where you can switch recordings of the same performance between different mic positions, heights, widths, orientations, arrays, etc. Each are done with top-level performers, instruments, and recording chains. These are "proper" comparative recordings that many of us could only dream of doing. For example, imagine having six pairs of DPA 4006 set up all at slightly different heights and distances and having that many choices to select from in post!
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
MOTU M2 ~ KRK Rokit RP5 ~ Sennheiser HD 650 ~ Etymotic ER4XR  |  iZotope RX ~ Reaper ~ foobar2000 (SoX linear)


Team Line Audio

Offline EmRR

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 727
    • ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2022, 08:26:30 PM »
nice!
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50

Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
  • Gender: Male
  • David
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2022, 10:16:05 PM »
Thanks! I love this kind of stuff.
Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); CA-14(c); JVC M510; Naiant X-R (h); Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D; Tascam DR-5; Tascam DR-2D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Naiant MidBox

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 14803
  • Gender: Male
  • "and the rowers keep on rowing!"
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2022, 09:26:04 AM »
Very cool. Thanks for linking this!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline jcable77

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Gender: Male
  • Needs to stay in more...
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2022, 10:44:57 AM »
Definitely going to delve into this. Thanks for the link. I've been starting to try and develop more of an understanding of this type of recording and sound reinforcement. Speaking of 4006's here are some pics of a recent trip to the Kimmel center in Philly. Pictures are kind of distant so you cant see them so well, but there were at least 8 4006's arranged over and around the Orchestra with 2 more pointing outward. Stands with lav mics we're arranged all over in different sections for closer miking. The last one is my mother in law taking a picture of me taking pictures of microphones. She asked my wife "what the heck is he doing"? Just being his normal nerdy self taking pictures of microphones. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 10:53:07 AM by jcable77 »

Offline jnorman

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 135
  • I'm a llama!
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2022, 07:50:03 PM »
Nice find, volt!

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3587
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2022, 09:03:01 PM »
Definitely going to delve into this. Thanks for the link. I've been starting to try and develop more of an understanding of this type of recording and sound reinforcement. Speaking of 4006's here are some pics of a recent trip to the Kimmel center in Philly. Pictures are kind of distant so you cant see them so well, but there were at least 8 4006's arranged over and around the Orchestra with 2 more pointing outward. Stands with lav mics we're arranged all over in different sections for closer miking. The last one is my mother in law taking a picture of me taking pictures of microphones. She asked my wife "what the heck is he doing"? Just being his normal nerdy self taking pictures of microphones.

I do the same thing at concerts, but I'm often too far away to make out what they are. When omnis are used, 4006s seem to be the most common at the concerts I go to.

There are a couple mics visible in your last picture that are something else - I see two 4006s, but then the two to the left look like Gefells(?).

I can't see the section spots well, but they would not use lav mics. They are likely one of these, with the appropriate cardioid or hyper modular capsules.
https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/floor-stand-with-modular-active-boom-for-mmc-capsules
https://schoeps.de/en/products/accessories/floor-stands-tubes/colette-tubes.html
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
MOTU M2 ~ KRK Rokit RP5 ~ Sennheiser HD 650 ~ Etymotic ER4XR  |  iZotope RX ~ Reaper ~ foobar2000 (SoX linear)


Team Line Audio

Offline jcable77

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Gender: Male
  • Needs to stay in more...
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2022, 06:08:19 AM »
Definitely going to delve into this. Thanks for the link. I've been starting to try and develop more of an understanding of this type of recording and sound reinforcement. Speaking of 4006's here are some pics of a recent trip to the Kimmel center in Philly. Pictures are kind of distant so you cant see them so well, but there were at least 8 4006's arranged over and around the Orchestra with 2 more pointing outward. Stands with lav mics we're arranged all over in different sections for closer miking. The last one is my mother in law taking a picture of me taking pictures of microphones. She asked my wife "what the heck is he doing"? Just being his normal nerdy self taking pictures of microphones.

I do the same thing at concerts, but I'm often too far away to make out what they are. When omnis are used, 4006s seem to be the most common at the concerts I go to.

There are a couple mics visible in your last picture that are something else - I see two 4006s, but then the two to the left look like Gefells(?).

I can't see the section spots well, but they would not use lav mics. They are likely one of these, with the appropriate cardioid or hyper modular capsules.
https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/floor-stand-with-modular-active-boom-for-mmc-capsules
https://schoeps.de/en/products/accessories/floor-stands-tubes/colette-tubes.html
Good eye, yeah those two you mentioned might be Gefell's? Im guessing thats why I took that picture because I couldnt figure out what those were. As far as my lav statement, your correction with those dpa's you linked make complete sense. Again, I had no idea what they were and wasnt quite close enough to see. That link you posted is amazing, Ive been drooling over those recordings. I couldnt imagine having 6 pairs of 4022's, 12 4006's, 6 pairs of cmc64's, mk22's, 140's all over the place, running 3x8 channels of grace pre's, or those manipulated philips pre's, crazy converters, etc. Those guys arent messing around, they calibrated all of their microphones to be matched. Like multiple b+k's, schoeps, neumann, to all be exact. Pretty cool stuff. We're heading to Symphony Hall tomorrow to see the Boston Symphony Orchestra, Ill see if I can get some better pics of what there set up is like.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 06:12:22 AM by jcable77 »

Offline jcable77

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Gender: Male
  • Needs to stay in more...
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2022, 01:10:19 PM »
A shot of Symphony Hall in Boston. Similar mic placement.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2022, 01:14:04 PM by jcable77 »

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (35)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3212
  • Gender: Male
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2022, 06:54:43 PM »
It's wild to see that multi-multi-mike arrangement there. I was a student at New England Conservatory in the late 1960s and early 70s, and went to concerts of the BSO rather often. They were miked by WGBH-FM with four Neumann omnis (KM 83, which are diffuse-field equalized) that hung down from the main ceiling. The main L and R mikes were placed about six feet behind the conductor's podium, and two others toward the back of the hall picked up ambience. That was it!

I assume that the treble was pulled down at least a little somewhere along the line, since those mikes typically sound hard/harsh when used at ordinary miking distances if that isn't done, and the broadcasts sounded very well balanced.
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3587
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2022, 09:33:50 PM »
It's wild to see that multi-multi-mike arrangement there. I was a student at New England Conservatory in the late 1960s and early 70s, and went to concerts of the BSO rather often. They were miked by WGBH-FM with four Neumann omnis (KM 83, which are diffuse-field equalized) that hung down from the main ceiling. The main L and R mikes were placed about six feet behind the conductor's podium, and two others toward the back of the hall picked up ambience. That was it!

I assume that the treble was pulled down at least a little somewhere along the line, since those mikes typically sound hard/harsh when used at ordinary miking distances if that isn't done, and the broadcasts sounded very well balanced.

Every symphony concert I've been to in the last 20+ years has been spot-miked out that wazoo, even if those spots end up rather low in the mix. I think at some point the expectation became that the recording should have that close sectional reinforcement of fine detail in addition to the overall sound of the ensemble and hall. Then there are the multiple flown arrays which I suppose exist for purposes of surround mixes. Personally, I think all of that belongs in film score recording, but for symphonic music meant to be enjoyed on its own I much prefer the way you remember BSO being recorded.
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
MOTU M2 ~ KRK Rokit RP5 ~ Sennheiser HD 650 ~ Etymotic ER4XR  |  iZotope RX ~ Reaper ~ foobar2000 (SoX linear)


Team Line Audio

Offline JiB97

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2586
  • Gender: Male
    • My Archive Bookmarks
Re: AMAZING Educational Website: The Research on Classical Music Recording
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2022, 01:31:48 PM »
Thank you for posting this, I love reading through stuff like this, especially when they have pictures for dummies like me!!!
AKG ck3/ck8 | c460b  + Naiant Actives | PFAs
Audio Technica u853r (omnis/mini-guns)
Tascam DR-70D

My Archive Links

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.051 seconds with 35 queries.
© 2002-2022 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF