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Offline adamz

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Update umbrella time
« on: June 30, 2022, 09:48:10 PM »
So I have a "big" umbrella, like normal size for a human.
Searched enough and am asking for tips where to find the small 12-14 inch diameter umbrellas to cover mics without taking up 2.5 feet of airspace around them. Guys at Apple Farm last summer had great small umbrellas. I have small umbrella envy... ???
If I get one, too, it won't rain so I definitely need one..
The posts here is from 2003..
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2022, 11:27:47 AM »
Ask ted of gakables. Search his handle, I do not know it offhand.
HE used to sell those umbrellas with stand mount adapters on the bottom.
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Offline vanark

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2022, 11:58:02 AM »
Ask ted of gakables. Search his handle, I do not know it offhand.
HE used to sell those umbrellas with stand mount adapters on the bottom.

It has been quite a few years since he sold them. He no longer has any.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2022, 12:00:47 PM »
Yep, Ted tiny umbrella man.

If he doesn't have them and you can't otherwise find them, here's an idea I've had stowed away in a dusty back corner of my head for years for a relatively easy to make DIY alternative option:

If 10-3/4" diameter is large enough for sufficient coverage, you can adapt a Ultimate-Frisbee sized flying disk (because it's generally the largest standard diameter frisbee) by drilling/cutting a small hole in center to attach threaded rod secured with wing-nut on top, other end of threaded rod attaches to mic-bar or light stand top thread/spigot adapter.  Even simpler- if you clamp your mics to the stand rather than attaching them at the top, you won't even need the threaded rod. 

Cool options:
1) You can offset the hole instead of placing it in the center to provide more overhang toward the front if that helps center the mics beneath the 10-3/4" diameter disk.
2) Can easily throw a rag, washcloth, or better- a circle of open cell filter material on top (also secured by the wingnut) to break up droplet impact and help quiet rain noise.
3) Could insert something acoustically absorbent on the underside to further reduce of rain impact noise from above and reflection of sound from beneath.
4) Still works as Frisbee (as long as options 2 & 3 aren't permanently attached) when its beautiful out and the sun is shining!

https://usaultimate.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Disc-Technical-Drawing.pdf
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2022, 12:03:34 PM »
Example of the filter material mentioned in 2) above, that disperses droplet impact energy without getting waterlogged and heavy.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline vanark

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2022, 12:30:48 PM »
I use as small a collapsible umbrella I can find - the kind you put in a briefcase or backpack. I hack off the handle and put the umbrella shaft into a windtech C clamp. Some models I need to compress a bit. The good part is it is small when collapsed and easily fits in my gear bag for those days where it might be needed. I also tend to just attach it when I'm outdoors but don't expand it until I need it.

To be honest, I'm not sure I want to run smaller than I am. It defeats the purpose as the rain generally does not come straight down. I'd rather run with a garbage bag over the mics than a smaller umbrella.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 12:43:04 PM by vanark »
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at LMA(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2022, 01:46:36 PM »
Cheap versions of those at Dollar Tree.  I keep a few in the recording box. Windtech clamp works well, and offsets center slightly.
Another option is sun umbrellas intended to attach to baby strollers.

One key for windy angled rain protection with any of these options is keeping them low, with the mics just peaking out from under the lip.

I was working on hydrophobic treatments for the windscreens with a shingle attached on the top last summer, but didn't get all the way there yet. The intent was a way of protecting each mic of a spaced array that is too large for a single umbrella, avoiding the need for an array of tiny umbrellas.

Mike Grace's tiny umbrella array-
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2022, 07:04:25 PM »
^ I've long been wondered where the heck he found those!

Offline mgtaper

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2022, 09:24:28 PM »
I ordered 3 of these a few months ago. https://www.saraglove.com/collections/clear-umbrellas/products/kids-clear-plastic-bubble-dome-rain-umbrellas?gclid=Cj0KCQjwtvqVBhCVARIsAFUxcRtDP9LZBrIw0dNQ1VIl3xENOQ9M5YtCFARXK_YjLk_ye5SIhxVUiVAaAgI3EALw_wcB

You need to be careful when opening these up that the metal rods are not tangled up.  I opened one up and one of the metal rods broke off and poked through the plastic, so I have 2 good ones left.

 I hack off the handle and put the umbrella shaft into a windtech C clamp also.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 09:30:11 PM by mgtaper »
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Offline checht

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2022, 03:49:01 PM »
I've still got the umbrella w clamp that was common 20 years ago, but don't use it much.

I found that the sound of the rain on the umbrella was super distracting. The material GB shared might take care of that. Looks a lot like washable air filter material to me. If it is, it does get a bit heavier when wet...

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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2022, 05:24:59 PM »
Gutbucket's DIY approach with open cell foam is essentially based on the same materials that are used for commercial solutions like the Rycote "Duck" or the Reinhard "Rain Hat" - just that those have a second layer at the bottom side that is to to drain off the water before it reaches the mics.

i think I've posted some links to articles and materials here before
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=173173.15

Offline adamz

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2022, 03:08:10 PM »
Thanks for all that, great ideas.
I’m understanding all the tech and attachment no problem.
I seek the small diameter umbrella like in those array pics.14” or so.
AZ

Offline fotoralf.be

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2022, 06:31:04 PM »
I've bought mine years ago from a place where they sell prams and baby stuff. Was originally sold as a parasol and I had to impregnate it to make it water-repellant.

This is what it looks like:



And this is what it sounds like:

https://aporee.org/maps/?loc=56681&m=satellite

Ralf
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2022, 08:02:55 PM »
Gutbucket's DIY approach with open cell foam is essentially based on the same materials that are used for commercial solutions like the Rycote "Duck" or the Reinhard "Rain Hat" - just that those have a second layer at the bottom side that is to to drain off the water before it reaches the mics.

Yes exactly.  The idea is a "baby duck" that would sit directly atop a water-repellent treated big ass Shure windscreen, like a funny little hat.  With it directly on top it can be smaller, requiring less overhang, but then also needs especially good droplet impact disruption.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Top Hat

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2022, 08:44:27 PM »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2022, 10:06:19 AM »
 :coolguy:
Extra style points for the mounting bar geometry and creative coverage option.
+T for helpful photography assistant.

Couple suggestions:
>Might consider partially overlapping the umbrellas. Can probably clip the edge of the underside one to the support arms of the top one. That should provide better central coverage with a less side overhang.
>Might want to shorten the arms to lower the umbrellas to further improve coverage and better deal with wind blown rain.
>Probably need to crank down on that wingnut to prevent the assembly from flopping over to one side in a gust.  Lower will present less lever-arm to the wind.  A bit of clothes-hanger wire secured to the upper hole in the support bracket extending out to hook around either umbrella arm can serve as support bracket.  That's how I support my folding telescopic antenna based mic bar arms in a horizontal orientation.

Trade-offs on having the umbrellas lower are potentially louder droplet impacts, and increased parabolic reflector effect. The parabolic reflector effect amplifies local chatter immediately surrounding the recording position, and can sometimes be heard as an upper-midrange/low-treble peak-filter tone in the ambient background sound floor.  A localized version of the under a tent canopy effect.  I was walking to lunch yesterday and passed under a new parking awning and this effect was immediately apparent both on the sound of my footsteps and the ambient background noise tonality of water moving in the adjacent waterway.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2022, 10:50:38 AM »
yes, from your picture you should try overlapping the center, some such idea will be necessary. We found out the hard way about water rolling into the array. Then we decided to use an odd 3 umbrella look for a wide array. attached just for your DIY thought processes:
music IS love

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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2022, 01:59:23 AM »
Gutbucket's DIY approach with open cell foam is essentially based on the same materials that are used for commercial solutions like the Rycote "Duck" or the Reinhard "Rain Hat" - just that those have a second layer at the bottom side that is to to drain off the water before it reaches the mics.

Yes exactly.  The idea is a "baby duck" that would sit directly atop a water-repellent treated big ass Shure windscreen, like a funny little hat.  With it directly on top it can be smaller, requiring less overhang, but then also needs especially good droplet impact disruption.

Picture of the commercially available Reinhardt "Rain Hat" with both a Movo WS50 and Rycote "Super Softie" mounted. As already mentioned, it's probably a lot cheaper to DIY your own custom versions. (Still, some near-coincident configs might not be practical with such a setup.)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Update umbrella time
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2022, 09:43:33 AM »
^ Thanks for that.

I'm thinking of cutting a plastic bottle into shape so that it's hoop-strength sort of spring-clamp grabs the windscreen, with filter material glued to its top side.  Will likely need to fashion some sort of drip edge lip.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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