Topic: Critique a first-timer's stealth rig.

[bconnolly]

Mics:
SP-CMC-8 (With AT Mini Rotating Clips)

Power:
SP-SPSB-6 (With Bass Roll Off feature)

Cable Conversion:
SP-MICROTRACK-MINI-TRS (1/8" Stereo TRS to 2 x 1/4" Mono TRS for the Microtrack)

Pre, A/D C, Recording Device:
M-Audio Microtrack


TOTAL: ~$700 USD


I've been reading up on this for a few months and I finally have gainful employment that lets me buy frivolous toys like this.  Do you guys have any recommendations for me that would work better than the mics I chose?  I'm mostly recording in venues that hold less than a thousand people... small clubs and bars.  No concert halls or arenas.

[Aaron41]

looks good. i found the AT clips useless for my 831s. It depends where you want to put the mics though

Maybe consider a JB3 instead of a Microtracker. Much larger yes, but much cheaper. $150ish compared to $500 after memory purchases for the Microtracker. I'm still not 100% on that either. I want to be though and soon.

[bconnolly]

I already have a 1gb CF card (for my digital camera) so that will be good enough to start out.  I actually just ordered my MT from an online retailer for $347.00 USD (free shipping, no tax) so it's kind of a done deal.  The reason I like the MT over the JB3 is the built-in pre that it has and the small size.

Thanks for the note about the clips, though.

[fuzn]

Looks good man. You might want to upgrade that flash card when you get the funds. That's going to get around 1 hour 40 min with 1gig. (Running 44.1/16)

Make sure you get the cardoid pick-up pattern. I love how omni's sound but it's a pain to deal with talkers and yellers on tapes.

Also, you could also get soundpros to mod your sp-spsb-6 to make it even smaller. You'll just have the small casing for the battery, and a little mold for the electronics and the plug on the top. It's pretty convient. Then again, you'll lose your switches to choose roll-off but they'll set it to whatever you want. 107hz is pretty nice to me, and the other people i've asked. Just throwing it out there, since you wanted the MT to save space, this could save space too. You won't save THAT much space, but if you want to save space, I thought i'd tell you. It was very convenient for me when stelathing.

I was going to get that exact setup as well, but then I wanted to get phantom power. Then after I got through figuring out I needed, it came out to about the same cost it would be just to upgrade to some used DPA 4061s that don't even need phantom power to handle high spls. That's because I was able to just get the MT dongle and get one of the smallest setups around. However, I hate that they're only omnis, as I said, crowd noise is a problem.

Don't forget the taperssection discount!

Looks great man, enjoy.

[bconnolly]

Looks good man. You might want to upgrade that flash card when you get the funds. That's going to get around 1 hour 40 min with 1gig. (Running 44.1/16)

Make sure you get the cardoid pick-up pattern. I love how omni's sound but it's a pain to deal with talkers and yellers on tapes.

Thank you for this information.  Very helpful!

Also, you could also get soundpros to mod your sp-spsb-6 to make it even smaller. You'll just have the small casing for the battery, and a little mold for the electronics and the plug on the top. It's pretty convient. ... they'll set it to whatever you want. 107hz is pretty nice to me, and the other people i've asked.

I didn't know about the SP-SPSB-6 mod, but thanks for the tip.  When I order it I'll make sure I ask for that.  Also, thanks for the roll off frequency recommendation.

I was going to get that exact setup as well, but then I wanted to get phantom power. Then after I got through figuring out I needed, it came out to about the same cost it would be just to upgrade to some used DPA 4061s that don't even need phantom power to handle high spls.

If I were to run something like the DPA 4061s using the MT (with the phantom power dongle SP sells), that would eliminate the need for a battery box altogether wouldn't it?  Hm... would cut down on the size quite a bit.  Are phantom powered stealth mics a rarity? Everything I've seen is battery box powered.  Also, what is the verdict on the MT's phantom power capabilities in regards to battery life?

Thanks for mentioning the TapersSection discount.  I didn't know SP offered that to us.

EDIT:

I just noticed this device: SP MT Mic Power

I realize that this battery box doesn't have bass roll off, but if I used this in conjunction with the MT and the SP-CMC-8s... could I ditch the SP-SPSB-6 battery box altogether?  That would be sweet.  Such a tiny set up!

[fuzn]

Actually, I use this dongle for my DPA 4061s http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MIC It takes the 4.5v from the 1/8 mic-in of the microtrack and uses the 1/4 line-in for everything else. There is also the Mic-Power dongle http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MIC-POWER that you linked to, but that gives 12v, and that is too much for DPAS, (I think, anyone know for sure?). You COULD use that for CMC-8 mics, but you won't get bass roll-off which those mics would probably need.

The DPAs don't need phantom power or bass roll-off, as they can handle bass right on without the need of rolling off. Phantom Power with the MT is cool, but it isn't worth it for how much time you lose. You only get like 2:30 hours battery life with phantom power on. The DPA 4061s have no real gain when using phantom power, as they operate on full power with the right power specs. (As far as I know)

But yeah, it really is the most tiny setup ever. I LOVE it. I can't fluff this setup enough. I have a sample of a show I taped with this setup in the kickdown, it's the NIN show that has a sample in there. The whole setup was around $400 for mics (Used on ebay, they're on sale all the time), $400 for MT, and $100 for dongle. Not too bad for such an great sounding, and very small setup to me.

So it's either if you want to spend the few hundred more for better mics, or just go with cmc-8s. You really can't go wrong any way.

[bconnolly]

Actually, I use this dongle for my DPA 4061s http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MIC It takes the 4.5v from the 1/8 mic-in of the microtrack and uses the 1/4 line-in for everything else. There is also the Mic-Power dongle http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MIC-POWER that you linked to, but that gives 12v, and that is too much for DPAS, (I think, anyone know for sure?). You COULD use that for CMC-8 mics, but you won't get bass roll-off which those mics would probably need.

The DPAs don't need phantom power or bass roll-off, as they can handle bass right on without the need of rolling off. Phantom Power with the MT is cool, but it isn't worth it for how much time you lose. You only get like 2:30 hours battery life with phantom power on. The DPA 4061s have no real gain when using phantom power, as they operate on full power with the right power specs. (As far as I know)

Yeah, at the moment DPAs are out of my price range.  Thanks for the suggestion, though.

But now that you mention that the SP MT Mic Power dongle gives too much juice for the DPAs, would it be too much for the CMC-8 mics?  I'm not really an expert at audio recording (as it should be obvious) and the realm of powering mics is really confusing to me.  Is the Mic Power dongle built for mics like the CMC-8?  I imagine SP sells such a dongle because they want to accommodate those people who purchased their cardiods and need a low-profile power source (and I bet they sell the other model for people who have mics like the DPAs).

Also, is bass roll off a must for recording with these mics?  I thought it would be nice to have the option on the battery box but I didn't think it was a requirement.  Willl it ruin my recordings to not be able to roll off the lower frequencies?

EDIT:

The page on SP's site says that the SP-SPSB-6 provides 9 volts of power (in addition to the MT's 5 volts of plug-in power... or in place of it?).  However, the description on the page for the SP MT Mic Power dongle says that it gives the mics 12 volts of power.  Since the SP-SPSB-6 is offered as part of a package on the page for the CMC-8 mics (and the SP MT Mic Power dongle is not), does that imply that the SP MT Mic Power dongle is not made for these mics?  Is 12 volts going to ruin my recordings (or, worse yet, my mics)?

[fuzn]

As far as I know, that is MADE for those types of mics. It will actually benefit from that power and handle higher spls. It does not take any power from the MT, just 12v from the dongle. However, you will lose the bass roll-off.  I would recommend getting the battery box instead. If you get the modded sp-spsb-6, it'll be just about the same size as the dongle, and the roll-off is almost required for these mics as far as I know. Also, yes... both of those do not take any power from the MT, only the MIC one I pointed out does. If anyone else has any experience, fell free to chime in.

So. I would do one of two things if I had to choose.

The exact setup you have up there already, except using the modded sp-spsb-6 box to cut down on some size.

Or...

Using this SP MT interface, http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-INTERFACE . All this one does is just convert the 1/8 to 1/4. So, it replaces this thing you have http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MINI-TRS . But it's smaller and cuts down on size, as it's shaped in a easier way to deal with. (In my opinion). Then just add everything else, and the modded sp-spsb-6 battery box. That is probably the smallest solution to me with that setup. I like my stuff as easy to deal with as possible, for when setting up in a stealth situation, it cuts down on time needed.

Those are just some suggestions... The stuff I suggested is just small things that you may or may not care about, you can figure out what works best for you with that hopefully.

If you have any other questions, call soundpros personally and ask for Chris. He will help you with EVERYTHING for planning out your rig and can do any special requests you may have. Seriously, he is an awesome guy to talk to and definitely knows his stuff. Say you're from taperssection and he'll give the discount over the phone.

[F.O.Bean]

for stealth, id get hypers personally, YMMV of course

get cards AND hypers and youre all set, omni stealth tapes 9 times out of ten leave me weak unless your in the 'sweet spot' but again YMMV and TRUST YOUR EARS

d/l some shows w/ those particular mics

and when you can afford it, if it even applies to your particular mics, get the 48v phantom option down the road, that gives you better dynamic range and overall a better recording since it can also handle higher SPL's as well

[fuzn]

Yeah, I would also say phantom power is great option. But I didn't feel the lost battery life (Almost 1/2) and extra stuff you have to add make it worth it (In stealth situations). I'd rather keep it to as little amount of gear as possible. This is what people told me and I definitely agreed with when I was looking at this exact same setup. Anyways, it's all up to you man, it's a pretty nice first setup, that is for sure.

[bconnolly]

for stealth, id get hypers personally, YMMV of course

get cards AND hypers and youre all set, omni stealth tapes 9 times out of ten leave me weak unless your in the 'sweet spot' but again YMMV and TRUST YOUR EARS

Hm, I'd never heard that hypers were the best to use with stealth recordings, but I also have no proof to discredit the advice.  What hypers are recommended for stealth situations?  Are they going to bump up my price a lot more than if I just got the CMC-8 mics?

[audBall]

Also, is bass roll off a must for recording with these mics?  I thought it would be nice to have the option on the battery box but I didn't think it was a requirement.  Willl it ruin my recordings to not be able to roll off the lower frequencies?

First off, bass-roll is not a requirement to simply just run the mics.  And, no you won't ruin them w/o it.  In certain situations, having the ability to roll-off can be helpful, IF (I repeat) IF you find that your recordings are too bass heavy. 

I have run the CMC-8s many times, often with omnis, and have never once used roll-off...and I'm glad I didn't.  Others on here who tape louder/harder music than I have noted that it has been helpful, but I've found that the SP roll-off features are either cutting too much bass off, or not enough.  The only reason I could think of needing it, is if you're a stack taper. 

Of course, the 'actual' roll-off will be determined by your recorder (that's another topic...has someone added the 'actual' roll-off values for the MT ran w/ the SPSB-6??).  These are my experiences w/ a JB3.  I'm sure someone can explain this a little better than me.

That'll be a nice setup.  These mics are sweet and can pull some pretty amazing tapes.  Good luck with the purchase and let us all know how it goes.

 

[audBall]

there's no need for hypers IMO. 

Purchase them with the omnis.....that's just my opinion.   

[setboy]

]That'll be a nice setup.  These mics are sweet and can pull some pretty amazing tapes.  Good luck with the purchase and let us all know how it goes.

 

QFT

[setboy]

Purchase them with the omnis.....that's just my opinion.   

i am soon to have omnis and hypers


if you tape in lots of bad sounding rooms go with the cards or hypers

there's no need for hypers IMO. 

maybe, but it shure is fun having them

[bconnolly]

So I've decided to go with my original list of parts after all the discussion.  Thank you very much for all of the advice and answers to my questions.

One more question: for the "Tapers Section" discount, do I just mention it in my order notes that I'm a member of this forum?  Same for the SP-SPSB-6 battery box modification mentioned earlier?

[fuzn]

So I've decided to go with my original list of parts after all the discussion.  Thank you very much for all of the advice and answers to my questions.

One more question: for the "Tapers Section" discount, do I just mention it in my order notes that I'm a member of this forum?  Same for the SP-SPSB-6 battery box modification mentioned earlier?

It would be easier to just do it over the phone in that situation. Especially if you want the battery box mod, so you could both be sure what you're getting. However if you want to try online, right when you're about to pay, you should see a coupon box or something and just put taperssection in there and it should take off 10% to some parts. They take off for most SP products I believe. Sometimes they don't when it should, like the dongle wouldn't do it for me online, but he did it on the phone. This is another reason why calling them and asking for Chris is easier. Congrats man, enjoy.

[audBall]

So I've decided to go with my original list of parts after all the discussion.  Thank you very much for all of the advice and answers to my questions.

One more question: for the "Tapers Section" discount, do I just mention it in my order notes that I'm a member of this forum?  Same for the SP-SPSB-6 battery box modification mentioned earlier?

It would be easier to just do it over the phone in that situation. Especially if you want the battery box mod, so you could both be sure what you're getting. However if you want to try online, right when you're about to pay, you should see a coupon box or something and just put taperssection in there and it should take off 10% to some parts. They take off for most SP products I believe. Sometimes they don't when it should, like the dongle wouldn't do it for me online, but he did it on the phone. This is another reason why calling them and asking for Chris is easier. Congrats man, enjoy.

Yeah, what he said.  Do it over the phone.  Chris is a smart guy and is very familiar w/ what we're doing.  From my experiences, going the online route, the order may not be 100% correct.  I had to go back and forth w/ my CMC8 purchase to get the right batt. box sent to me.  I wish I woulda just dealt directly w/ Chris on that one.  Not bashing SP whatsoever...great company, they worked hard to alleviate the issues I had and did so successfully....just letting you know.

[bconnolly]

Yeah, what he said.  Do it over the phone.  Chris is a smart guy and is very familiar w/ what we're doing.  From my experiences, going the online route, the order may not be 100% correct.  I had to go back and forth w/ my CMC8 purchase to get the right batt. box sent to me.  I wish I woulda just dealt directly w/ Chris on that one.  Not bashing SP whatsoever...great company, they worked hard to alleviate the issues I had and did so successfully....just letting you know.

I ordered last night on the web, but I took your advice and called.  Must have caught them after they closed (damn time zones!) so I left a message.  Thanks for the tip.  From now on, I'll call and ask for Chris.

EDIT: Also, cool link in your sig Aud... getting those Hartford tapes from the ftp! +T!