Topic: Mono sbd feed

[Chanher]

When I do sbd/aud matrixes with my R4 I'm thinking of just using a single channel for the sbd feed. I know the bands sound guy and they don't run stereo.

Basically I would have my main audience stereo pair, a mono sbd channel, and I'd use the extra channel maybe to fill in a lead guitar or lead vocal.

Would there be any benefits to recording the sbd in stereo? Will there be polarity/phase issues if I try and convert the mono track to stereo?

[caymanreview]

i think that sounds like a great plan. if the sbd is mono anyway, why not record it on one channel and use the 4th channel for something else.

ive done a little bit of taking a mono recording and making it stereo with soundforge, i never had a problem, but my experience was limited...

[Chanher]

I guess I'll have to experiment in the field. But maybe someone has tried?

[Nick Graham]

I've encountered several mono board feeds the last few months (I started a thread about it in the Computer Recording forum), and the advice I was given was to add a very slight (a millisecond or so) delay to one of the channels after converting it to stereo. It's still technically mono, but the delay does give some sense of seperation.

[Shawn]

I've taken mono SBD feeds to do matrix recordings before, and haven't had any problems. Although I don't bother to convert the SBD to stereo.

I haven't done it in a while, but if I get the chance and can get the approval I would like to use the 4th channel to run a single mic on stage. a sub card would be great, but since I don't have a sub-card I'll probably try an omni. could make for a very interesting and  mostly accurate recording. You'll capture what's coming through the PA, what's coming from the stage, and a mix of both out in the room. stereo image will be all but dead, but if the band is running in mono then the recording just represents that.

[easy jim]

If you already have a stereo pair of mics + the SBD mono channel, don't worry about making it stereo in post.  Just mix as a 3 track with the mono channel panned center (or a 4 track if you take another direct feed, etc.).  You will get all the stereo imaging of the soundstage from your pair of mics.

Copying the mono track and adding a little delay to it to make a 2 track stereo source IMO should probably only be done if all you have is the mono source without anything additional.

[Chanher]

I've encountered several mono board feeds the last few months (I started a thread about it in the Computer Recording forum), and the advice I was given was to add a very slight (a millisecond or so) delay to one of the channels after converting it to stereo. It's still technically mono, but the delay does give some sense of seperation.

very interesting. I'll have to play around with that.

I've taken mono SBD feeds to do matrix recordings before, and haven't had any problems. Although I don't bother to convert the SBD to stereo.

I haven't done it in a while, but if I get the chance and can get the approval I would like to use the 4th channel to run a single mic on stage. a sub card would be great, but since I don't have a sub-card I'll probably try an omni. could make for a very interesting and  mostly accurate recording. You'll capture what's coming through the PA, what's coming from the stage, and a mix of both out in the room. stereo image will be all but dead, but if the band is running in mono then the recording just represents that.

I like the idea of a single onstage. I think your right though, it would have to be omni or subcard. Anything else could introduce phase problems. That also got me thinking of 3-mic mix + mono sbd for great sounding venues / outdoors.

If you already have a stereo pair of mics + the SBD mono channel, don't worry about making it stereo in post.  Just mix as a 3 track with the mono channel panned center (or a 4 track if you take another direct feed, etc.).  You will get all the stereo imaging of the soundstage from your pair of mics.

Copying the mono track and adding a little delay to it to make a 2 track stereo source IMO should probably only be done if all you have is the mono source without anything additional.

You think? I'll definitely try both. I guess I could go grab an old sbd recording, single out a track, convert it to stereo and try the delay.

[Todd R]

Chris -- I recently taped Fareed Haque onstage at Dulcinea's.  Ran a DIN stereo config onstage with my AKG/jklabs setup, ran a single CP C4 onstage next to the keyboard/keyboard amp, and mix in a mono soundboard feed panned to the center.  Even with the stage mics, the mix came out pretty mono-ish, but it sounded very good otherwise.

If the band/house is using a stereo soundboard, I'd probably take a 2-ch stereo soundboard feed, but if the board mix is mono, just grab that and pan it to the center.

[Chanher]

Chris -- I recently taped Fareed Haque onstage at Dulcinea's.  Ran a DIN stereo config onstage with my AKG/jklabs setup, ran a single CP C4 onstage next to the keyboard/keyboard amp, and mix in a mono soundboard feed panned to the center.  Even with the stage mics, the mix came out pretty mono-ish, but it sounded very good otherwise.

If the band/house is using a stereo soundboard, I'd probably take a 2-ch stereo soundboard feed, but if the board mix is mono, just grab that and pan it to the center.

very cool. do you think that C4 omni helped a lot? 

[Todd R]

Tough to say about how much the C4 added.  I had everything set up on stage with the center pair, the C4 on the left for the keyboard, and the other C4 on the right to better capture the tabla player.  Then I found out very last minute I could get a board feed, so I dropped the C4/tabla channel in favor of getting the board.

My initial concern was that I would not get enough of the keys and tabla that were on the far ends of the stage in my center DIN pair. Once I switched to having the board feed as well, I got plenty (perhaps too much) keys coming thru -- probably didn't need the C4 on the keys at that point.  If I had had more time to think it thru and rearrange onstage, I would've put that extra mic on Fareed's guitar amp so I could better add that into the mix.  Since it was a small club, the board feed did not have too much guitar in it, instead relying on the guitar amp for the room mix.  Since I had onstage + onstage keyboards + board, I ended up with a slight bit more keys in the mix than I would like, and a slight bit less of Fareed's guitar.

[firmdragon]

I've encountered several mono board feeds the last few months (I started a thread about it in the Computer Recording forum), and the advice I was given was to add a very slight (a millisecond or so) delay to one of the channels after converting it to stereo. It's still technically mono, but the delay does give some sense of seperation.

yea i first heard about this on dat heads a couple of years ago.  it should be in the archives somewhere.  something to do with multitap and wet/dry settings or something along those lines.  i wrote done the email somewhere and could probably dig it up if you can't find it.  the results are decent.  doesn't work as well with AUD recordings. 

[Chanher]

Predicting those board feeds can be difficult. I've had similiar experiences tryingto 4-track a jazz quartet.

[cyfan]

When I do sbd/aud matrixes with my R4 I'm thinking of just using a single channel for the sbd feed. I know the bands sound guy and they don't run stereo.

Basically I would have my main audience stereo pair, a mono sbd channel, and I'd use the extra channel maybe to fill in a lead guitar or lead vocal.

Would there be any benefits to recording the sbd in stereo? Will there be polarity/phase issues if I try and convert the mono track to stereo?

FWIW, I do this all the time. While I've graduated up to full multi-tracks (up to 12 channels anyway) I frequently ran a standard two guitar, bass, drum into four channels: SBD tape outs, guitar, guitar and bass. Panned the guitars to get some stereo separation.
I just figure as many channels as I can get recorded the more I have to work with in post.