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Offline bkirby

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New Purchase...
« on: May 09, 2007, 03:25:31 PM »
Well, ya'll have become the death of me and I've bit the bullet and just purchased a Music Hall MMF-5 along with a couple of LPs, some record sleeves, an Oznow Zerodust stylus cleaner, and a Thorens cleaning kit. Just ordered today from Acoustic Sounds so the whole enchillada should be here next week.  I am essentially new to vinyl (minus some playing around as a kid) and I'm looking for just generic tips on setup, cleaning, storage, etc. Should I purchase a cleaning machine or just deal with the cleaning kit for now? How often should I deeply clean a record? Any help would be most appreciated...

For now, the MMF-5 will be going directly to the Outlaw 990 preamp (yes, it has a phono input) > Adcom GFA-5802 > VR2s. Once I get a little more comfortable with vinyl, I'll start looking for a relatively cheap but good phono pre.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2007, 04:48:17 PM »
Very cool.  I have just gotten into vinyl again and I am amazed at the imaging and overall sound quality that you can get with a clean record, when compared to the CD counterpart.  So my advice is based on limited experience, but what I am doing, based on advice here and other readings around the web is to deep clean the record once, then use a carbon fiber brush over it before I play it, and place the record in an antistatic sleeve for storage.  I also bought some outer covers for the album jacket, mainly because I am anal, but I believe that it will help keep dust as far away from the vinyl as possible and preserve the jacket for me. 

As for whether you need a record cleaning machine or not, that is a tough call.  I was using the D4 kit to begin with and found an amazing deal on a new Nitty Gritty cleaning machine on craigslist and jumped on it.  On new or rarely played vinyl, I am not sure I hear much of a difference when I take a disc that I had cleaned with the D4 kit and listened, then used the nitty gritty.  But on stuff that has seen some use, but still in great shape, it does sound a bit smoother to me to have a cleaned and vacuumed record.  The other thing is visually, there is a difference in my view when I look at a record that has been cleaned with the machine, it just looks cleaner, than when I do it with the D4 kit.  But as I told Chris last night, who knows I may be imagining it.  But even if I am, I can still get behind the theory behind cleaned vinyl, which is a great argument to me.

As for setup, it was pretty easy for me, but I have a different table, so I don’t know…I am sure someone else will chime in here…

And the best thing is you can walk in a record shop and walk out with 30 records for $60, and walk out with stuff that has never made it to CD!

Enjoy! 

Offline bkirby

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2007, 05:11:30 PM »
Thanks for the tips Nick +T. I am looking forward to getting everything set up and play around. Also looking forward to searching for used vinyl collections and/or hunting through shops and raiding friend's vinyl.

Also, curious if it's worth it to upgrade mats. Are they really worth it to keep records clean and static-free or just keep the felt for now?

I guess I'll be in search for a used or cheap cleaning machine. Most cost more that my TT which just doesn't seem right. Maybe I will look into building something like Carl did. Thanks again though...

Offline nickgregory

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2007, 06:31:19 PM »
fwiw, the nitty gritty record doctor I got sells new for $250....manual turning and cleaning, but has the vacuum and easy to use...nice price for what it does imo...

Offline nickgregory

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2007, 07:26:54 PM »

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2007, 07:37:17 AM »
nice Brad. 
as for inexpensive phono preamps...i've been very curious to hear how the Audio Experience phono pre is.  Seeing how awesome their line level preamps are (for the price), I can only imagin that the rest of their gear is just as good.

i'm in audio transit w/vinyl.  can't make up my mind.  I know its fun, I know it sounds great.  I know that you have to dump $100 into cleaning supplies every now and again.  thats the part I dont like. 
my other problem is I'm so in love with my Odyssey Cyclops amp...that in order to make analog work for me I have to buy a whole new rig as my Cyclops only has one input, and its being utilized by my digital front end.
so, for me to make it happen...I would have to go w/new Odyssey seperates (tempest pre, which does include MM/MC phono preamp stage) and stratos amp. 
We'll see....
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 07:39:58 AM by Nick's Picks »

Offline bkirby

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 09:32:10 AM »
nice Brad. 
as for inexpensive phono preamps...i've been very curious to hear how the Audio Experience phono pre is.  Seeing how awesome their line level preamps are (for the price), I can only imagin that the rest of their gear is just as good.

i'm in audio transit w/vinyl.  can't make up my mind.  I know its fun, I know it sounds great.  I know that you have to dump $100 into cleaning supplies every now and again.  thats the part I dont like. 
my other problem is I'm so in love with my Odyssey Cyclops amp...that in order to make analog work for me I have to buy a whole new rig as my Cyclops only has one input, and its being utilized by my digital front end.
so, for me to make it happen...I would have to go w/new Odyssey seperates (tempest pre, which does include MM/MC phono preamp stage) and stratos amp. 
We'll see....

Nick, I was on the fence for about a year as well and finally decided to say screw it and give it a whirl. I'm worried about the whole cleaning thing, but if I can get a cleaning machine at a decent price (or make my own), it may make things easier. For now, I'll see how it goes with the Thorens cleaning kit.

As for phono preamps, I have thought about the Bottlehead Seduction, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2, the Audio Experience Concerto, the Creek OBH-18, and the CIAudio VPP-1. Other possibilities are floating about as I would really like the PS Audio preamp, but it's still a bit high in price. FRor now, I will just use the phono pre in the Outlaw 990. I will have to wait and see how much I really enjoy this whole vinyl thing.

As for cleaning, if I can't find an inexpensive machine, then I may go my own route. I've come across these two sites that have some info., but this will just have to take a lot more research once I find out exactly what I want and need in a cleaning machine...

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/recordcleaner.htm

http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html

Thanks again Nick and Nick for all of the great info. Looking forward to hearing some Zeppelin vinyl ringing throughout my whole neighborhood...

Brad K.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2007, 09:35:35 AM »
Thanks again Nick and Nick for all of the great info. Looking forward to hearing some Zeppelin vinyl ringing throughout my whole neighborhood...

Brad K.

I cleaned and listened to Houses of the Holy last night and had to listen to it twice...the CD in this case pales in comparison to the vinyl. 

damn, just saw this...absurd deal...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1183934643

Offline bkirby

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 11:35:25 AM »
Thanks again Nick and Nick for all of the great info. Looking forward to hearing some Zeppelin vinyl ringing throughout my whole neighborhood...

Brad K.

I cleaned and listened to Houses of the Holy last night and had to listen to it twice...the CD in this case pales in comparison to the vinyl. 

damn, just saw this...absurd deal...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1183934643

Damn! I guess this just sold as I was reading through the "Team Vinyl" thread! Oh well...

Offline shane

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 02:22:41 PM »
Is a cleaning machine really necessary?  Except for old dirty records I can't see much of a need for one.  I have some stuff from the 70's that I just go over with my MoFi brush dry.  Seems to be all they need.  I do the same to new records.  only difference is the amount of dust and such that comes out.

Shane

Offline nickgregory

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 02:28:35 PM »
Some people swear by it.  I read somewhere some guys do it to every album before they play it, every time.  That is overkill in my opinion, but I can buy into cleaning the vinyl and then storing it properly and you should be good.

I am just not sure there is such a thing as clean vinyl anymore.  Old stuff has years of crap caught up in it and I have heard that even new records have crap caught up in the grooves from the processing activity.   As stated above I have heard improvements on older vinyl cleaned with the Record Doctor vs using the D4 system (getting rid of pops and a little less veiled), but for new stuff who knows.  But in theory I agree with the value at having a strong vacuum pulling all the liquid out of the grooves from cleaning and also left over residue that the brush cant get at.

Offline carlbeck

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 04:30:45 PM »
I only have a minute but trust me a machine is well worth it, night & day difference. Most of the pops & clicks is caused by dirt, get a good machine, just make one like I did & you will see. Your money back if not satisfied!
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2007, 07:17:31 AM »
wow..that sounds just like your Mom's guarantee.

Offline carlbeck

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2007, 07:38:08 AM »
wow..that sounds just like your Mom's guarantee.


Yep, it is hers, she knows if I don't satisfy your wife I will give her all YOUR money back

OK, so somehow I ended up with a minus T yesterday after I posted my thoughts on a vacuum, interesting. Anyway, you can make a record vac very cheaply. In fact you will spend more on chemicals then you will on the actual vacuum set up. I never realized how important the vacuum stage is but with normal cleaners all you are doing is pushing the dirt deeper into the grooves. With a good machine you can use the fluid to get the dirt into suspension then remove it instead of pushing it in deeper. It will take a record that is unbearable to listen to & bring it back from the dead.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline nickgregory

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Re: New Purchase...
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2007, 08:56:36 AM »

 

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