Topic: how are the van den hul's different than hosa's?

[intpseeker]

I've read about cables here and still don't understand what the difference is between my Hosa's and the van den Hul set in the Yardsale.

Any help would be appreciated

[Roving Sign]

Basically, Hosa is affordable junk...Van Den Hul is high-end stuff...opposite ends of the spectrum

your hosas are copper...The VanDen Huls are silver and carbon (I think)

[boojum]

I find the difference between mic placements far greater than the difference between mic cables.  Until you can get the mics in the right place every time it is a waste of money.  As usual, YMMV.   

[Busman Audio]

It is not a waste of money.
Good cables are worth your money.

The van den Hul cables in the yard sale are worth the money. I find it funny how a few years ago people would easily pay good money for a good set of cables and now not. The audio magic cables x-streams or hyperconductors aren't even as good as the van den Hul cables and yet people used to buy those without blinking for around 200 or more a set.

Check out the van den Hul website for more info http://www.vandenhul.com/

Hosas will work but they are not high quality.

[Tim]

I find the difference between mic placements far greater than the difference between mic cables.  Until you can get the mics in the right place every time it is a waste of money.  As usual, YMMV.   

mic placement is arguably more important than even the mics themselves

good cables are worth the money up to a point. A couple of hundred bucks for high-quality cables for a rig that costs a couple of thousand or more is a worthwhile investment imo

[Belexes]

If high quality cables are a waste, I just wasted $110 in the yard.

[boojum]

^^^^  Your words; your thoughts. 

I said that mic placement was arguably more important than the cables.  I have yet to hear a difference between cables while I can easily hear a difference between various mic placements.  And before you all tell me that your high-priced Centrifugal Bandersnatch cables sound better than anything, prove it with a few double-blind tests.  If I wanted, I could say that the cables I make myself sound better than anything I buy.  With enough ego I would believe it.  But that would not make it true.   

[ero3030]

had a thought on this topic,  but must pass ed

[stevetoney]

Some blind cable testing was done maybe 5 or 6 months ago...if you want the results, they exist in the TS.com archives.  As I recall, they were conclusive in favor of silver-clad cables.  

Having said this, I wonder if I can help the original poster by telling my own cable story.

I joined this list several years ago but didn't get active until a year ago.  One of my very first questions involved the issue of cables and frankly I just didn't believe that cables could make a difference.  I'm an engineer and a skeptic.

After getting lots of non-answers and HEATED arguments between knowledgeable and respected people on this list...I couldn't come to any conclusions from their input alone, so I ended up deciding that I had to do some testing of my own.  I bought about 4 sets of cables...from the $35 copper pair with StarQuad wire up to a $175 pair of AudioMagic Hyperconductors.

What I discovered FOR MYSELF was this...the silver clad cables have a more transparent sound to them in A vs. B tests and to my ears just deliver an overall better and more open sound than the cheap cables.  The sound difference between cables is not, nor would it ever be like 'WOW those sound GRRREAT'.  But it's more like, 'OK they sound a little better'.  Transparency is probably the most apt adjective that I'm able to think of right now.

For purposes in investing in audio gear, I have no problem with the logic that people are presenting when they say that there are more important variables in the equation for getting a good sounding recording that good cables.  Of course, everyone should logically know already that there are any number of variables that go into getting a good sounding pull.

Lots of people are saying mic placement is the most important.  No, I would counter that the soundboard engineers ability to mix a good sounding show is _THE_ most important factor.  

But that's not the point.  The question was not, 'what's the most important variable to getting a good recording'...the question was 'does a cable make a difference?'  

So, to answer directly the question, because of my own testing in which I indeed convinced myself (much to my surprise, I might add) that the cable quality makes some difference, I personally came to the conclusion that, since I was spending over $2000 in a quest to obtain equipment that delivers a good sound, it was a justifiable investment to also buy better quality cables.  

Keep in mind, you don't need to break the bank here.  Good quality silver clad cables are selling on the Yard Sale for $70 to $100.  In addition, from what I've heard, I'm sure the Van Den Huls are worth the price being asked.  For my own rig, that price is a no-brainer for the sake of getting a 'OK it sounds a little better' sounding rig since I'd already invested over $2K.

I'm not claiming that this is the final word and answer to this debate...all I'm saying is that this is the reasoning that went into my personal decision making.  

[boojum]

^^^^ Please show me the "blind cable testing" that proves silver clads to be conclusively better.  More transparent does not mean the same thing to all people so, hopefully, the tests were clearer than that.  Just an incidence of say 80% identifying silver clad as conclusively better in a double-blind test would be interesting.  I searched for "blind cable testing" and found nothing.  Please help me out here.

Thanks

[stevetoney]

^^^^ Please show me the "blind cable testing" that proves silver clads to be conclusively better.  More transparent does not mean the same thing to all people so, hopefully, the tests were clearer than that.  Just an incidence of say 80% identifying silver clad as conclusively better in a double-blind test would be interesting.  I searched for "blind cable testing" and found nothing.  Please help me out here.

Thanks

OK, I found the test and linked to it below...sorry it wasn't a totally blind test like I thought that I remembered.  Nashphil did the cable comp but he identified the cables ahead of time so that people knew which were the more expesive cables.  Not really an unbiased and blind comparison. 

However I'd like to point out once again your statement above implies that I stated that silver was better.  Really, it's a subjective thing.  I think what the better conclusion would be that more people preferred the sound of the silver clads in this test...that doesn't mean better, it only means more people preferred one over the other.  I haven't re-reviewed this thread, but I do seem to recall a couple people saying that one of the less expensive copper cables were their preference. 

Beauty is in the ear of the beholder.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81975.0.html

[stevetoney]

To add to the ambiguity of this discussion, I should point out that I recall when I was debating for myself the merits of the more expensive cables, most people called the silver cables BRIGHTER instead of the word that I used...more TRANSPARENT.  Honestly, I'm not sure which is a better adjective...so the best answer is to listen to the comps and reach your own conlclusions.

One other thing...it also should be understood that people with low end playback systems aren't gonna hear the same thing as someone with higher end playback gear. I recall lots of toe-to-toe arguments on this cable subject, and in the end it was concluded that alot of the arguing resulted because one person was using low quality equipment and couldn't hear much difference, while the person with a super duper high end rig was claiming the difference was night-and-day.  YMMV.

[boojum]

That the folks listening knew the cable they were listening to before they heard it makes the test all but meaningless.  What does it prove?  We just saw that more expensive wines taste better.  I would not be surprised if more expensive cables test better.  But prove it in a double-blind test.  Otherwise all you are getting is led impressions. 

Or, let's cut right to the chase: how many professionals do you know who are using van den Huls or other super high-end cables as opposed to standard Canare star quad.?  I work with a guy out here on the coast who just laughs at high-end cables.  He was a musician on the road for years and now sets up sound systems up and down the coast.  He does not recommend the high-end, but will install them if you want.

[ghellquist]

To me cables makes a difference. I have never heard any sound difference between decent cables.

What makes a difference to me is how well their physical properties work during a long usage time. Will the twist and snake or stay straight? Will they keep on working even under abuse? Will they leave dark smears? Are the cables large and stiff or small and flexible? Does the contacts lock and unlock positively without force? Does the cable stay in the connector even after a bit of abuse?

Or to put it simply, will they simply work or will they create problems.

I have found that for me Neutric connectors are what works. I get them gold-plated in black simply because it looks good, the silver plated are probably a bit more long-lived. I then use Gotham cables and solder myself.
http://www.gotham.ch/products_en/en.htm
Gunnar

[Nick's Picks]

back to the original question.

taking ones ears out of the equation, and just digging in the wire itself...and you'll find that it is constructed with amazing quality.
silver plated copper wire.  thicker gage, better insulation. 

does it sound better than cheap Hosa ?
that's your call.