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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: voltronic on December 30, 2022, 07:48:57 PM
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I have a 1m long, 12mm diameter stiff carbon fiber tube that was graciously given to me by Scott Shepherd of SRS Recording to trial DPA 406x clips he 3D printed. The center has a very nice printed 20mm section designed to clip into a Rycote shock.
Instead of buying an expensive 1m bar, I would like to repurpose this tube to mount full-size mics with bodies. Instead of shock mounting the whole rod, I would clamp the center to the top of my stand.
I'm looking for ideas on a secure way to attach my mic mounts that will be adjustable without slipping , not crush the carbon tube, and be as small as possible.
My initial thought was to use small clamps such as these (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1724362-REG/camvate_c2878_universal_super_crab_gripper.html), but I don't trust the little double-male 3/8" adapters I'd need to connect my shocks.
The closest thing I can find to what I want is this (https://www.camvate.com/products/camvate-15mm-single-rod-clamp-adapter-convert-to-3-8-16-mounting-screw-for-dslr-camera-cage-rod-support-2280), but I would need to cut some pieces of rubber tubing to make up the 3 mm difference. That's preferable to wrapping the rod in tape, anyway.
Does anyone have any better ideas?
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Is the rod threaded at each end? If so, maybe a one of these on each end: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1640838-REG/smallrig_mini_magic_arm_with.html
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https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-12mm-15mm-single-rod-clamp-for-bmpcc-6k-pro-cage-3276.html
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Is the rod threaded at each end? If so, maybe a one of these on each end: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1640838-REG/smallrig_mini_magic_arm_with.html
No, it's a plain hollow carbon fiber rod. Those arms are way more involved than what I'm looking for. Just something with 3/8" male attachment points.
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https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-12mm-15mm-single-rod-clamp-for-bmpcc-6k-pro-cage-3276.html
Well the mount itself with the reducing insert is right on the money of what I'm looking for. But the mounting plate needs to be oriented so it's perpendicular to the rod, and with 3/8" instead of 1/4" screw. (Again, I really don't want to trust adapters with the mics I'll be using.)
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https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1692280-REG/smallrig_3598_12mm_15mm_single_rod_clamp.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1434548-REG/camvate_c0979_convert_screw_adapter_1_4_20.html
Yes, I know that these are adapters. But with these video rod clamps 1/4 inch is the industry standard. So, you'll have difficulties in finding any small video clamps with integrated 3/8 screws.
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Ha, Voltronic we always seem to be working on similar projects. I'm building a bunch of custom superlight stereo bars and mounts, too.
Right now you're planning to clamp something onto the 1m tube, where the clamp has a 3/8" stud, and then screw the mic clip onto this stud?
Most mic clips are actually a 3/8" female nut, then a bolt/pivot point that uses a small machine bolt, then the part of the clip that grips the mic. Why not disassemble the clips via the machine bolt, and bolt them directly onto a tube clamp (skip the 3/8" nut and also the need to have a 3/8" stud)? Doing this means you just need to get a small nut onto your 1m tube, rather than a clamp and stud. Unless of course you want to be able to adjust the mics in two planes (so you really do need the 3/8" studs).
In that case, maybe something from this page?
https://www.mcmaster.com/tube-clamps/
Just be sure to check the actual inner diameter -- the 'nominal' size of pipes is never the actual size, and the difference is large (mcmaster will list both but you have to look). Your 15mm bar is just a bit larger than a 1/4" diameter nominal pipe (which is 0.54", despite the 1/4" name).
At any rate, DPA 406x weigh nothing... there should be a simple solution here that doesn't require a lot of metal clamps and adapters.
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https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1692280-REG/smallrig_3598_12mm_15mm_single_rod_clamp.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1434548-REG/camvate_c0979_convert_screw_adapter_1_4_20.html
Yes, I know that these are adapters. But with these video rod clamps 1/4 inch is the industry standard. So, you'll have difficulties in finding any small video clamps with integrated 3/8 screws.
Those would have worked, except for the non-removable locating pin.
I think I'm probably going to go with the ones I found and posted above that have a 3/8" mount already and removable locating pins. I just need to get the reducing inserts.
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Ha, Voltronic we always seem to be working on similar projects. I'm building a bunch of custom superlight stereo bars and mounts, too.
Right now you're planning to clamp something onto the 1m tube, where the clamp has a 3/8" stud, and then screw the mic clip onto this stud?
Most mic clips are actually a 3/8" female nut, then a bolt/pivot point that uses a small machine bolt, then the part of the clip that grips the mic. Why not disassemble the clips via the machine bolt, and bolt them directly onto a tube clamp (skip the 3/8" nut and also the need to have a 3/8" stud)? Doing this means you just need to get a small nut onto your 1m tube, rather than a clamp and stud. Unless of course you want to be able to adjust the mics in two planes (so you really do need the 3/8" studs).
In that case, maybe something from this page?
https://www.mcmaster.com/tube-clamps/
Just be sure to check the actual inner diameter -- the 'nominal' size of pipes is never the actual size, and the difference is large (mcmaster will list both but you have to look). Your 15mm bar is just a bit larger than a 1/4" diameter nominal pipe (which is 0.54", despite the 1/4" name).
At any rate, DPA 406x weigh nothing... there should be a simple solution here that doesn't require a lot of metal clamps and adapters.
This is an interesting idea, but I do need adjustability in all axes. Also, this project is going to be for 4006A's which are quite long and hefty. If it was for 406x mics, I'd just gaff tape them to the bar like I do with my modular carbon fiber kite spur stand.
This bar will be used for pipe organ recording, and up very high (likely 20ft or more).
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https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1692280-REG/smallrig_3598_12mm_15mm_single_rod_clamp.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1434548-REG/camvate_c0979_convert_screw_adapter_1_4_20.html
Yes, I know that these are adapters. But with these video rod clamps 1/4 inch is the industry standard. So, you'll have difficulties in finding any small video clamps with integrated 3/8 screws.
Those would have worked, except for the non-removable locating pin.
I think I'm probably going to go with the ones I found and posted above that have a 3/8" mount already and removable locating pins. I just need to get the reducing inserts.
Probably worth asking the manufacturer (SmallRig) whether or not they'd sell them separately (or if they could send you some samples).
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off topic but also maybe not:
https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Inanimate_carbon_rod (https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Inanimate_carbon_rod)
(https://preview.redd.it/2h9f3emjh4i31.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6f417d6f1845bc034f71d23e35f82bd3f0cd39aa)
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You inspired me to go down a rabbit hole I've been thinking about for some time because I wanted a wide stereo bar with flexibility for multiple orientations and multiple mics. I bought a 15mm, 61cm carbon fiber rod and two camvate right angle connector clamps which accept 15mm x 2cm rod that has a 3/8 thread for mic mount. I think it's a better solution than having the screw directly on the clamp as you can easily adjust the orientation of the mic by loosening the clamp. The flange on the 2cm rod keeps it from falling through the clamp while loose. I tried including some photos but they are not showing up in preview, will try to repost if it does not work.
With a 12mm rod, you may be able to find a 12mm ID, 15mm OD silicon tube which can be cut and used as an adapter. I did this with a 15mm ID, 20mm OD so I could use my Rycote shock mount to hold the bar, but I think I need a sturdier lyre.
Here are the links to products on amazon. If you're willing to wait you can get a lower priced / longer rod in 3-4 weeks.
15mm x 61 cm carbon fiber rod - https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Lightweight-Carbon-Fiber-1-5mm/dp/B07D6XK5TY/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=15mm+carbon+fiber+rod+24+inch&qid=1672962547&sprefix=15mm+24%22+carbon+%2Caps%2C119&sr=8-3
15mm right angle clamp - https://www.amazon.com/CAMVATE-Right-Degree-Rotate-Camera/dp/B07B1TCQ39/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=right+angle+15mm+rod+clamp&qid=1672962288&sprefix=right+angle+15mm%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-3
15mm x 2cm rod w/ 3/8 thread - https://www.amazon.com/CAMVATE-Micro-Female-Thread-Length/dp/B01LZ663R7/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3OPR333PW1QY6&keywords=15mm+rod+3%2F8+thread&qid=1672962491&sprefix=15mm+rod+3%2F8+threa%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-3
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That's a really neat solution, Marc.
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^^ Nice!
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Consider also the Rode Micro Boompole Pro for the basic rod substrate - $99 at B&H for 3x 3/8-16 threaded and socketed 29" sections.
Between your planned use sessions you have a very lightwieght and rigid 7' boom.
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That Rode pole does look nice, especially with all the threaded fittings.
If anyone is looking for a cheap source of carbon fiber rods, I have had great dealing with this sport kite supplier.
I used a model similar to this one for my modular 4061 stand:
https://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Sky-Shark-P400-XL__p400xl.aspx (https://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Sky-Shark-P400-XL__p400xl.aspx)
https://imgur.io/a/mGTcH (https://imgur.io/a/mGTcH)
Be sure to look under both Pultruded and Wrapped tube categories to see all they have.
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Hi,
Can someone help me understand the benefit of carbon rod over alumimum 15MM threaded rod? Weight? Seems a lot more expensive...
Thanks!
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Hi,
Can someone help me understand the benefit of carbon rod over alumimum 15MM threaded rod? Weight? Seems a lot more expensive...
Thanks!
Yes. It's a HUGE difference in weight, which potentially becomes more important the higher you go. You can also go very wide without adding much mass. The 1m bar I have is still extremely light.
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And its sexier!
My company builds two versions of an otherwise functionally equivalent product line, one from aluminum, the other carbon fiber. Folks like to talk about the weight difference, but in our case the real-world differentiator which all recognize but generally goes unmentioned is that the carbon fiber version is cooler and sexier.
I've been scheming for years on ways to build very small diameter / light weight telescopic mic-bar sections out of carbon fiber tubes to replace the repurposed TV telescopic antennas (black steel) used in my rig, mostly because doing so would eliminate folding-mode failure. Its only happened a few times over the course of decade and a half, but on a few occasions I've accidentally fold-kinked a telescopic section tube when hurriedly breaking down at the end of a session, retracting telescopic sections in haste. To continue using the rig prior to replacement of that arm I then need to reinforce the damaged area with a splint made from a split section of rigid plastic tube or a chopstick gaff-taped in place, after-which that section can no longer be fully retracted.
Nesting carbon fiber kite tubes would be perfect, except for the lack of end components that prevent over-extension and provide either sufficient friction (like the current TV antennas) or a locking mechanism sufficient to prevent rotation once deployed, as necessary to maintain the desired orientation of the microphones in the vertical plane.
Might even be able to run small guage coiled wiring internally.
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Daft question: I understand that pretty much all of these carbon fibre rods don't have any inner threading....
Would it be possible / reasonable to use superglue or epoxy to permanently fix some thread adaptors (similar to the K&M 215M10 or the K&M 217) to them?
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Yes. I'd use epoxy preferably. Proper prep with good fit, scuff sanding, solvent wipe, etc..
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Daft question: I understand that pretty much all of these carbon fibre rods don't have any inner threading....
Would it be possible / reasonable to use superglue or epoxy to permanently fix some thread adaptors (similar to the K&M 215M10 or the K&M 217) to them?
That's probably what Rode did with their carbon boompole mentioned earlier in the thread. Superglue is what the kite company recommended to me for internal carbon ferrules, but for attaching threaded rods I would use JB Weld.
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Nesting carbon fiber kite tubes would be perfect, except for the lack of end components that prevent over-extension and provide either sufficient friction (like the current TV antennas) or a locking mechanism sufficient to prevent rotation once deployed, as necessary to maintain the desired orientation of the microphones in the vertical plane.
These three companies have been mentioned a few times on GS Remote by people building telescoping carbon fiber assemblies for super-tall stands. Beware; the prices are painful.
https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/ (https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/)
https://dragonplate.com/carbon-fiber-products (https://dragonplate.com/carbon-fiber-products)
https://www.clearwatercomposites.com/ (https://www.clearwatercomposites.com/)
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Daft question: I understand that pretty much all of these carbon fibre rods don't have any inner threading....
Would it be possible / reasonable to use superglue or epoxy to permanently fix some thread adaptors (similar to the K&M 215M10 or the K&M 217) to them?
That's probably what Rode did with their carbon boompole mentioned earlier in the thread. Superglue is what the kite company recommended to me for internal carbon ferrules, but for attaching threaded rods I would use JB Weld.
I think these carbon fiber rods are the same as graphite shafts for golf clubs. Two part epoxy mixed properly should be super durable. Here is link to quick set (~30 min). A LITTLE heat from heat gun will help it cure better but not necessary.
https://www.golfworks.com/the-golfworks-maximum-strength-tour-set-plus-epoxy/p/vb1033/
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I mentioned JB Weld because it IS 2-part epoxy, and the strongest on the market: 5200 psi tensile strength. The 4500 psi of that Golf Works epoxy is probably more than enough for this application, though.
The carbon fiber I'm working with are tubes; not solid rods which I think club shafts are made of.
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Here is a post describing a reasonably-priced solution for end-mounting mics to a 6-foot carbon fiber bar:
https://gearspace.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-location-recording-amp-production/1355650-onno-pipe-4-mic-w-apes.html#post15522030 (https://gearspace.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-location-recording-amp-production/1355650-onno-pipe-4-mic-w-apes.html#post15522030)
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Nesting carbon fiber kite tubes would be perfect, except for the lack of end components that prevent over-extension and provide either sufficient friction (like the current TV antennas) or a locking mechanism sufficient to prevent rotation once deployed, as necessary to maintain the desired orientation of the microphones in the vertical plane.
These three companies have been mentioned a few times on GS Remote by people building telescoping carbon fiber assemblies for super-tall stands. Beware; the prices are painful.
https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/ (https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/)
https://dragonplate.com/carbon-fiber-products (https://dragonplate.com/carbon-fiber-products)
https://www.clearwatercomposites.com/ (https://www.clearwatercomposites.com/)
Thanks. Good to recheck every now and then. Looks like all those outfits continue to lack telescoping connectors for tubes smaller than about 1" OD. Some have small diameter tubes available, yet no end connectors for them. Will recheck the kite supply folks, as they tend to specialize in smaller diameter tubing.
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I contacted Scott at SRS Recording last week since to see if he could come up with a solution. I think what he designed is very slick - check it out:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/ADMVQ2BNJ/cf-fitting-sprue-12mm (https://www.shapeways.com/product/ADMVQ2BNJ/cf-fitting-sprue-12mm)
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I contacted Scott at SRS Recording last week since to see if he could come up with a solution. I think what he designed is very slick - check it out:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/ADMVQ2BNJ/cf-fitting-sprue-12mm (https://www.shapeways.com/product/ADMVQ2BNJ/cf-fitting-sprue-12mm)
verry slick, as you say. Looks very cool. He/they are good at this stuff.
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Here they are, in the flesh! Amazing work from Scott.
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.msg2390372#msg2390372 (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.msg2390372#msg2390372)
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Here they are, in the flesh! Amazing work from Scott.
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.msg2390372#msg2390372 (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.msg2390372#msg2390372)
Very nicely done!!
:clapping: