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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: Tim on March 25, 2005, 08:30:33 PM
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this thing has a mind of it's own.... I will skip tracks manually with the remote and occasionaly it will just replay the previous track, I will skip 3-4 tracks and the music never changes but the display track does. turning the unit off and on seems to remedy the situation.
also, it will occasionaly just stop working... I'll be listening for 10 minutes or 4 hours, doesn't matter it's totally random and sure enough the thing will just stop for no reason. press play and start the track over and the unit will work just fine.
totally f'in bizarre... anyone else had these issues?
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I had a taper-made DVD-A that threw my H/K into a tailspin.
Wouldn't play it, when I hit eject, it played one track, eject again, next track. Eject twice and it would open the transport !
All other discs, CD and DVD-A are OK, so I'm not sure what's up yet.
Have you tried several discs and different types ?
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oh yeah, this behavior occurs with any kind of cd that gets thrown into it.
seems to do okay with dvd's though.
I'm not really losing any sleep over it, it's a bit annoying but it's a cheap machine so I'm not terribly heart-broken :)
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My 3960 has some quirks...nothing that bothers me too much for what it does. Mostly tracking problems like ya said....if I put a disk in, hit play, and leave it alone it does OK. :) It also doesn't like to open very quickly sometimes....keeps wanting to "load".
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I dont recall ever experienceing any issues with mine. Maybe a finicky disc once and a while, but nothing that sticks out in my mind.
fwiw...
the 3960 made Stereophiles list of recomeneded componants.
Class D I believe.
still, thats saying something to make the list!
There were a lot of inexpensive products on that list. Most of the reviews I had all ready read, but it was cool to catch up. Lots of integrated amps and DVD universal players (marantz had two models) under $1800 new that were class A rated.
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You get what you pay for, imho.
Too bad it's acting up on you though, my attitude towards any cd/dvd player is that it should work flawlessly at least ten years. My brother had this Pioneer cd player circa December 1992 and that sucker read everything and anything regarding cd's (cdr's included). It actually never broke, i just wound up upgrading it to a 5 cd changer/1 md deck. Now i use a Music Hall cd-25 and i love what it does with my headphone rig.
Is the Toshiba firmware upgradeable?
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You get what you pay for, imho.
thanks for that insight.
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Too bad it's acting up on you though, my attitude towards any cd/dvd player is that it should work flawlessly at least ten years.
Ten years? I don't give anything with moving and/or electronic parts more than 3 years of flawless performance. Too many things going on when you add moving parts and electricity to not develop problems.
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How come no one is questioning how he knows how flaky a 15 yr old valley girl is? :P
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How come no one is questioning how he knows how flaky a 15 yr old valley girl is? :P
It's a given. :)
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Too bad it's acting up on you though, my attitude towards any cd/dvd player is that it should work flawlessly at least ten years.
Ten years? I don't give anything with moving and/or electronic parts more than 3 years of flawless performance. Too many things going on when you add moving parts and electricity to not develop problems.
I agree with you Brian, when we are talking about electronics made, say, post-1997 or so. Things since then just seem to be made so cheaply that you are right. I think it has something to do with adding so many features while trying to keep the price down. Turntable CD players never seem to last that long...
On the other hand, the first CD player I ever got - a single disc sony player, lasted for 8 or 9 years - prolly got it sometime around 92 or so.
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Gotta disagree with you guys strongly about the quality of cd players. If you buy a quality unit from a company that specifically builds sources it will last years down the road unlike a cheap dvd/cd player unit like the Toshiba mentioned in this thread that comes off of a assembly line.
"thanks for that insight."
Anytime. ;D
People always prop up cheap components and hail them as the next best thing and when they fall apart in a short period of time and people act surprised. Do yourself a favor and invest in something that was built to last and not mass produced.
I've owned my Sony 7506 headphones and those work flawlessly after four years of operation. My Grado SR-60 headphones are working flawlessly after 4 1/2 years. It's all about mass production. Buy something that comes off of an assembly line and be prepared for defects.
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with the technology curve that we have seen of CDs->DVD-A->SACD and the upcoming new DVD formats,. you will be lucky if the transport you buy today is even technically feasible in 5 years...10 years, it will be heavy doorjam
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with the technology curve that we have seen of CDs->DVD-A->SACD and the upcoming new DVD formats,. you will be lucky if the transport you buy today is even technically feasible in 5 years...10 years, it will be heavy doorjam
IOW, I should hold off on purchasing a universal disk player as long as possible?
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with the technology curve that we have seen of CDs->DVD-A->SACD and the upcoming new DVD formats,. you will be lucky if the transport you buy today is even technically feasible in 5 years...10 years, it will be heavy doorjam
IOW, I should hold off on purchasing a universal disk player as long as possible?
no, if you try to wait out technology, you will never buy anything...
I was just pointing out that the 10 year argument is flawed due to this...and that is why I am ok with buying cheap transports, that sound good, rather than paying a bunch of money for something that will be outdated....
anyone remember what the tascam cd-writers were going for??
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with the technology curve that we have seen of CDs->DVD-A->SACD and the upcoming new DVD formats,. you will be lucky if the transport you buy today is even technically feasible in 5 years...10 years, it will be heavy doorjam
IOW, I should hold off on purchasing a universal disk player as long as possible?
no, if you try to wait out technology, you will never buy anything...
I was just pointing out that the 10 year argument is flawed due to this...and that is why I am ok with buying cheap transports, that sound good, rather than paying a bunch of money for something that will be outdated....
With the word "upcoming" - I was under the impression that there was something coming within the next year or so... I'd wait for that if it were a significant development... overall though, I do agree with you... I think Gloco and I, when we talk about our old cd players, are talking about time period from when cds came out to about 2000 or so (widespread CD-R burning/DVDs) that the technology was basically at a plateau, where all you had was store-purchased CDs.
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keep in mind, there is Blu-Ray and HD-DVD on the horizon...I dont care how much you spend on a transport today, when these come out you will have to replace it...
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keep in mind, there is Blu-Ray and HD-DVD on the horizon...I dont care how much you spend on a transport today, when these come out you will have to replace it...
that's exactly what I'm worried about. I don't know anything about these things, unfortunately... never heard of them. Looks like I'll have to go do some reading! Is that HT stuff, or a higher quality 2 channel format?
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you will have to replace it...
... to support the new media and formats.
I think a good current model universal player will not be any less viable after these new formats are released. The bulk of commercial software will still be offered in CDDA for many years to come. All the current software you own will still be playable for many years. If you want a multiformat player now and intend to upgrade in 12 months, buy a toshiba unit as a throw away solution today and retire it to the bedroom when the new ones come around. I don't have any worries that my current player will become insufficient for many years because my library is all CDDA and DVD.
About the only thing that would drive me to buy one of the new players at this point is if I bought a new monitor and needed the video protocol support or more advanced interpolation for high res monitors. Every new media is initially expensive, so I wouldn't convert my shows on CD and DVD to the higher density formats until the new media drops in price anyway and that is several years out.
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So am I crazy for ordering a $1600 UDP this week? I don't think so! Yes Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are on the horizon, but this is just going to be another format war (VHS vs. Beta, DVD-A vs. SACD). There will only be so many titles released at first and the players will still be around $1K+ when we first start to see them in the fall. Do you really think the video stores and Best Buy will carry them. Not at first they won't. Also, I don't think these players will have as good of a picture as current players on the current media, which I have a decent collection.
I probably won't get into this newer technology until the format war is over or when 1080P front projection systems are reasonably priced ($4K).
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agree with both of you...I was just making the argument that it is a trade off between price and keeping up with the technology curve....
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ah, ok... this is more for video, as opposed to audio.... I'm only really interested in updating my 2 channel audio, so I'll bow out... ;)
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agree with both of you...I was just making the argument that it is a trade off between price and keeping up with the technology curve....
Yeah, but you like being out there at the head of the curve. ;-)
I'm not really an early adopter.
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Yeah, but you like being out there at the head of the curve. ;-)
I'm not really an early adopter.
sometimes yes, sometimes no :P
usually I am not an early adopter either....hell, I bought the V3 over 2 years after it came out..
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"thanks for that insight."
Anytime. ;D
People always prop up cheap components and hail them as the next best thing and when they fall apart in a short period of time and people act surprised. Do yourself a favor and invest in something that was built to last and not mass produced.
Hmmm... maybe I wasn't clear enough last time. BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS
who's suprised? not me. I was just posting so other people would know about the issues I had.
I'm sick of your condescending attitude. I've got plenty of money in my playback system, it's pretty clear that I understand the value of nice gear - ASL, B&W, Bel Canto (not exactly low end stuff), not to mention my recording rigs: u89s, Apogee, Grace, Oade. Any of these ring a bell?
EDIT: Maybe I can lecture you on the obvious shortcomings of your taping rig? Since you seem to enjoy lecturing others I'm sure you would love it...
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Hmmm... maybe I wasn't clear enough last time. BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS
who's suprised? not me. I was just posting so other people would know about the issues I had.
I'm sick of your condescending attitude. I've got plenty of money in my playback system, it's pretty clear that I understand the value of nice gear - ASL, B&W, Bel Canto (not exactly low end stuff), not to mention my recording rigs: u89s, Apogee, Grace, Oade. Any of these ring a bell?
Don't hold back Tim, tell us how you really feel. :)
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I've tried to be subtle, that didn't work :)
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FWIW, a simple perusal of the net would demonstrate that Tim is not the only one "propping up this model"
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ah, ok... this is more for video, as opposed to audio.... I'm only really interested in updating my 2 channel audio, so I'll bow out... ;)
This discussion is very applicable to audio. I have a Denon 2900 and it isn't even attached to a video monitor. I use it for CD and DVD audio playback only. I expect that blue-ray and other new formats will be nice because of the density they provide - entire show(s) at 24/96 on one disc instead of 2 discs, fall tour flacs on one disc eliminating a stack of CDs.
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my 4960 won't spin dvds/cds anymore. it worked great for a couple of months tho.
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anyone remember what the tascam cd-writers were going for??
Tascam? When I bought my Fostex CR-200 back in 1998, the msrp was $2195. Now they go on ebay (new) for $300. The D/A is sweet tho; one of the best redbook players I have heard. Fantastic transport too. Ooops, starting to ramble, sorry for the brief hijack - please resume ;)
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I was just pointing out that the 10 year argument is flawed due to this...and that is why I am ok with buying cheap transports, that sound good, rather than paying a bunch of money for something that will be outdated....
anyone remember what the tascam cd-writers were going for??
I didn't buy a tascam but I did buy a Sony RCD-W1 (component cd player/recorder) when they first came out.....set me back about $500. :-\ Think that gets much use now? :P
I have no problem spending $$ on stuff like amps and speakers because they will last and will not be lost in the dust of a newer higher resolution format. For $70 I'd rather buy a handful of 3960s than one "good" universal player.
I also just remembered my JVC 3 head casstette deck (remember when 3 head decks were THE shit?) that crapped out on me after a bout 2 years. Another "good" (read expensive) media player gone quickly.
Hey....if ya got the $$ to buy a $500-$1000 tape/cd/dvd/8-track/whatever player every few years because it either breaks or becomes outdated......have a ball.
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my 4960 won't spin dvds/cds anymore. it worked great for a couple of months tho.
I had this happen with mine once. The chassis in the 4960 REALLY needs to be dampened, as it creates a lot of vibration. Open the unit up, dampen it, then pull out the connecting ribbon and reattach it to the psb. My guess is you will be golden. Otherwise, the other answer is if the unit is still receiving power, there is a loose copnnection probably do to a bad solder joint somewhere. I would take a look. If it is entirely worthless to you, and you still have it, I will take it and fix it!
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with the technology curve that we have seen of CDs->DVD-A->SACD and the upcoming new DVD formats,. you will be lucky if the transport you buy today is even technically feasible in 5 years...10 years, it will be heavy doorjam
IOW, I should hold off on purchasing a universal disk player as long as possible?
no, if you try to wait out technology, you will never buy anything...
I was just pointing out that the 10 year argument is flawed due to this...and that is why I am ok with buying cheap transports, that sound good, rather than paying a bunch of money for something that will be outdated....
anyone remember what the tascam cd-writers were going for??
This logic makes no sense. I own a MusicHall cd-25 which plays cd's and hdcd's. It also plays cdr's. It's quite a solid cd player and very upgradeable if need be. DVD-A and SACD are outta here thanks to lack of public interest, so yeah, whoever bought into those formats is screwed royally. I don't consider myself a audiophile, but a audio enthusiast who loves music and thinks the redbook format ain't going anywhere fast, so why not splurge a little and get a cd player that sounds sweet.
Now, on the other hand there's audio enthusiasts who are looking for a budget source that sounds great and there's some out there. My argument is that these budget sources are probably not as well built and will probably fail far sooner than a well-built, albeit more expensive, unit.
I'll never understand why people settle for a budget source when there's plenty of stellar sources that cost some dough, but will last the test of time unlike these budget sources that fall apart. Plus, i'm a believe of source first, therefore garbage in>garbage out is something i believe in as well. If you're willing to dump thousands on speakers and amps, why not get a source that's equal in terms of quality?
Now interconnects (or audio cables of any kind) are a different story, i'm not sold on those yet.
"FWIW, a simple perusal of the net would demonstrate that Tim is not the only one "propping up this model""
I know, people are raving about it over at head-fi among other forums i imagine as well. Lets say i've always been concerned about budget sources that are all the rage then after a year or two they start to display problems. I hate that and have been burned by it, so i steer clear of budget equipment that's supposed to give you the best bang for the buck.
"Hmmm... maybe I wasn't clear enough last time. BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS"
LOL, Tim, relax man. I have no beef with you at all. I wrote a very honest reply and you drag it down to personal insults?
"I'm sick of your condescending attitude. I've got plenty of money in my playback system, it's pretty clear that I understand the value of nice gear - ASL, B&W, Bel Canto (not exactly low end stuff), not to mention my recording rigs: u89s, Apogee, Grace, Oade. Any of these ring a bell? "
I'm very familiar with those brands. I could sit here and be an asshole and start tossing out names of companies no one here has probably never heard of, but that would be very petty. What i was trying to say is that your rig would probably be better off with a higher quality source. I mean, we all love kick ass budget sources, but they tend to be flaky and fall apart and that's what comes with the low price. For example, i purchased a Rio Karma mp3 player, which is always being ranked up as the best mp3 player. I decided to jump on it and buy one for the low price of $180...it's a 20GB model. Now, the unit has it's problems (hd failures, faulty buttons, etc etc). So far so good for me and it features a great EQ that apparently rivals any other (parametric eq). Now, if the unit dies on me six months from now, who can i blame? No one but me. I knew the sucker had faults and at that price, i enjoyed it while it lasted.
"EDIT: Maybe I can lecture you on the obvious shortcomings of your taping rig? Since you seem to enjoy lecturing others I'm sure you would love it..."
Absolutely. When i trade my recordings, i always love to hear positive and negative feedback. There's nothing wrong with it. My preamp is ok, the dat is what it is and the mics, well, they sound rather decent. I have a pair of Audix 1290C that i'd like to take out for a trial and let them do their magic. I got to test them out briefly and they sounded freaking sweet, heads and shoulders above the soundpro's.
No harm done and i think i probably came off the wrong way earlier, my apologies if i did so. Hopefully this post will clear things up.
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DVD-A and SACD are outta here thanks to lack of public interest, so yeah, whoever bought into those formats is screwed royally.
screwed royally? there are many great SACDs and DVD-As out there that imo are better than their redbook compliant siblings...while it is true that SACD and DVD-A have not taken off, the recordings that have been released in this format are fantastic...as a result, having a player that plays them is important to me.
I'll never understand why people settle for a budget source when there's plenty of stellar sources that cost some dough, but will last the test of time unlike these budget sources that fall apart. Plus, i'm a believe of source first, therefore garbage in>garbage out is something i believe in as well. If you're willing to dump thousands on speakers and amps, why not get a source that's equal in terms of quality?
Now interconnects (or audio cables of any kind) are a different story, i'm not sold on those yet.
not all budget sources fall apart....some just arent built as well as others. Hell, I have had high end televisions that have given me nothing but problems. I agree that there is some truth to you get what you pay for...but honestly, that is not a hard and fast rule...and those that think it is in my experience are just trying to justify their $$$ spent. Now this doesnt mean with dollars you cant get a smoking <insert whatever the product is here>, but it also means you can get overpriced garbage (see Bose) that is easily outperformed by something that is within its price class, or even lower.
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Isn't DVD-A the only way to spread 24 / 96 recordings? Everything I've gotten from Bos and Damon has been this format.
Are Gloco and Markham meeting at the flagpole - DRider style? Maybe Sam Malone needs to buy them a round???
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Isn't DVD-A the only way to spread 24 / 96 recordings? Everything I've gotten from Bos and Damon has been this format.
it is one way...using DVD Audio Creator, you basically make a DVD-V disc playable in any player that will output 24/96...
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DVD-A and SACD are outta here thanks to lack of public interest, so yeah, whoever bought into those formats is screwed royally.
screwed royally? there are many great SACDs and DVD-As out there that imo are better than their redbook compliant siblings...while it is true that SACD and DVD-A have not taken off, the recordings that have been released in this format are fantastic...as a result, having a player that plays them is important to me.
Yeah, people will be screwed because they bought into a format that will be dead. I personally own just a few sacd titles and they do sound quite nice, but i don't consider them to sound leagues above their redbook counterparts. The lack of good software has also hurt each formats chances of surviving.
I'll never understand why people settle for a budget source when there's plenty of stellar sources that cost some dough, but will last the test of time unlike these budget sources that fall apart. Plus, i'm a believe of source first, therefore garbage in>garbage out is something i believe in as well. If you're willing to dump thousands on speakers and amps, why not get a source that's equal in terms of quality?
Now interconnects (or audio cables of any kind) are a different story, i'm not sold on those yet.
not all budget sources fall apart....some just arent built as well as others. Hell, I have had high end televisions that have given me nothing but problems. I agree that there is some truth to you get what you pay for...but honestly, that is not a hard and fast rule...and those that think it is in my experience are just trying to justify their $$$ spent. Now this doesnt mean with dollars you cant get a smoking <insert whatever the product is here>, but it also means you can get overpriced garbage (see Bose) that is easily outperformed by something that is within its price class, or even lower.
Sure, Bose is one of those companies that goes against what i said earlier. I personally stay away from these "flavor of the month" items that will typically fail to perform in the long run. I do agree with your logic thought, it's very reasonable and it's a damn shame we got stuck with dualdisc because the music industry is mired in fucking the consumer over. I personally plan on sitting out dualdisc and wait for something real to come across that can be a successor to redbook. Or maybe i should just upgrade to a killer vinyl rig :)
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Are Gloco and Markham meeting at the flagpole - DRider style? Maybe Sam Malone needs to buy them a round???
Not sure what DRider style means, but i can go for a beer...or two. 8)
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to say "you get what you pay for" w/the 3960 is foolish.
you get A LOT more than you paid for, but only in the sound out of the deck. Certainly not in the construction quality of a $60 DVD player. But it sounds better than a lot of players that approach 10x its price.
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would you say that even w/o the mods?
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Are Gloco and Markham meeting at the flagpole - DRider style? Maybe Sam Malone needs to buy them a round???
Aces High Motherfuckers!!!!!
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to say "you get what you pay for" w/the 3960 is foolish.
you get A LOT more than you paid for, but only in the sound out of the deck. Certainly not in the construction quality of a $60 DVD player. But it sounds better than a lot of players that approach 10x its price.
That's precisely my point. On the other hand, i have my doubts that it sounds better "than a lot of players that approach 10x its price."
I hear this all the time about equipment of all kinds; amps, cd players, tube amps and anything else under the sun. In most cases the people who say such things are proved wrong or at least the weight of their reviews are diminished over time as many people who bought into the hype start to see that these claims are full of hot air. On the other hand, i've never owned a Toshiba unit so i can't rule it out as something i wouldn't mind trying out to see how it stacks up to my current source. I'll go digging around head-fi and see how well the toshiba 3960 fares in comparison to other sources. It's been discussed a lot at head-fi as well.
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That's precisely my point. On the other hand, i have my doubts that it sounds better "than a lot of players that approach 10x its price."
I hear this all the time about equipment of all kinds; amps, cd players, tube amps and anything else under the sun. In most cases the people who say such things are proved wrong or at least the weight of their reviews are diminished over time as many people who bought into the hype start to see that these claims are full of hot air. On the other hand, i've never owned a Toshiba unit so i can't rule it out as something i wouldn't mind trying out to see how it stacks up to my current source. I'll go digging around head-fi and see how well the toshiba 3960 fares in comparison to other sources. It's been discussed a lot at head-fi as well.
If you have have no experience with the unit why are you even commenting? From what I've read your only contribution to this discussion is that your source is SOOOO much better and you doubt the the Toshiba could stack up. Did I miss anything?
I'll chime in a little bit on the Toshiba line, for the money I think they are an excellent value. I got the chance to compare my stock DV-563a with my brothers Toshiba 4900 with and without an external DAC and I thought the Toshiba outperformed the Pioneer without using the external DAC and was pretty similar with the DAC. I've also had a chance to compare it with my APL DV-563a and though the APL sounds better to my ears but the Toshiba definately performs much better than I'd expect from a player at it's pricepoint and would have no reservations recommending it as a budget player/transport.
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That's precisely my point. On the other hand, i have my doubts that it sounds better "than a lot of players that approach 10x its price."
I hear this all the time about equipment of all kinds; amps, cd players, tube amps and anything else under the sun. In most cases the people who say such things are proved wrong or at least the weight of their reviews are diminished over time as many people who bought into the hype start to see that these claims are full of hot air. On the other hand, i've never owned a Toshiba unit so i can't rule it out as something i wouldn't mind trying out to see how it stacks up to my current source. I'll go digging around head-fi and see how well the toshiba 3960 fares in comparison to other sources. It's been discussed a lot at head-fi as well.
If you have have no experience with the unit why are you even commenting? From what I've read your only contribution to this discussion is that your source is SOOOO much better and you doubt the the Toshiba could stack up. Did I miss anything?
I'll chime in a little bit on the Toshiba line, for the money I think they are an excellent value. I got the chance to compare my stock DV-563a with my brothers Toshiba 4960 with and without an external DAC and I thought the Toshiba outperformed the Pioneer without using the external DAC and was pretty similar with the DAC. I've also had a chance to compare it with my APL DV-563a and though the APL sounds better to my ears but the Toshiba definately performs much better than I'd expect from a player at it's pricepoint and would have no reservations recommending it as a budget player/transport.
Thanks. Was the 4960 stock as well?
+t
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Thanks. Was the 4900 stock as well?
Yes, the 4900 was stock as well. My brother is far from an audiophile so I didn't bother explaining to him the virtues of an upgraded power supply or chassis dampening. :)
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THanks. I've been considering purchasing a cheap shitty DVD player for a bedroom system (like $40) - but, if this is a seriously kick ass item, and Best Buy has it for $49, I might as well get one for my main system! It sounds like it will totally crush my current cdp.
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THanks. I've been considering purchasing a cheap shitty DVD player for a bedroom system (like $40) - but, if this is a seriously kick ass item, and Best Buy has it for $49, I might as well get one for my main system! It sounds like it will totally crush my current cdp.
Try it out, if isn't what you are looking for then you can return it to Best Buy with minimum hassle.
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exactly. Consumer loan! I'd prolly keep it anyways, I mean, I was going to buy a total POS anyways. I guess I always thought the toshiba was at least a hundo...
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would you say that even w/o the mods?
yes.
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Apparently the toshiba 4960 is a rebadged samsung dvd unit:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100799&highlight=toshiba+3960
I know my music hall cd-25 is also a rebadged unit, let me see if i can find the link for that as well. It seems that quite a few audiophile-like sources are coming out of China at rock bottom prices. Too bad the shipping costs far outweigh the potential cost savings.
A little older, but interesting nonetheless: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=64834&highlight=toshiba+3960
I'm gonna go dig more info up on mods in case anyone is interested...
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That's precisely my point. On the other hand, i have my doubts that it sounds better "than a lot of players that approach 10x its price."
I hear this all the time about equipment of all kinds; amps, cd players, tube amps and anything else under the sun. In most cases the people who say such things are proved wrong or at least the weight of their reviews are diminished over time as many people who bought into the hype start to see that these claims are full of hot air. On the other hand, i've never owned a Toshiba unit so i can't rule it out as something i wouldn't mind trying out to see how it stacks up to my current source. I'll go digging around head-fi and see how well the toshiba 3960 fares in comparison to other sources. It's been discussed a lot at head-fi as well.
If you have have no experience with the unit why are you even commenting? From what I've read your only contribution to this discussion is that your source is SOOOO much better and you doubt the the Toshiba could stack up. Did I miss anything?
I didn't say my unit is better anywhere in this thread. No where. Mind reading all my comments? You'll see that i haven't done anything to bait an argument, just posting my opinion based on experiences and at the beginning i was being tongue in cheek and that didn't seem to come through at all. I even disclosed (maybe not early enough) that i never owned one of these Toshiba units. What i said is that he could do better for the money based on the equipment he (Tim) owns, based from the list he provided. I don't think my tone of writing is coming off as hostile or condescending.
If you post something, expect people to post their opinions, whether or not you'll agree with them, there's no need to throw a fit. I doubt the hype behind the toshiba based on past experiences of owning similar budget equipment, that's why i decided to chime in. I'm not looking to be a jerk about it, just discussing other options. What i've read at head-fi from people who have more experience with source swapping is that the toshiba is good, but not a stellar unit like other people are making it sound like. People who come from cheap, low quality sources naturally feel the Toshiba decks are a great deal.
However, it sounds like a highly mod-able unit and that definitely is appealing for these bargain toshiba's. I like players that can be modded and i'll admit it sounds like an appealing unit, but the fact that its acting up is disturbing.
i ran a search for Toshiba 3960 on head-fi, here's all the hits:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/search.php?searchid=678031
Some mention other models close to it for a similar price. I still think it sucks that the Toshiba unit Tim owns is acting up. I still feel that sources should funtion perfectly for an extended period of time.
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I made a small mistake in my previous post, my brother's player is a Toshiba 4900 and not the 4960. The subsequent posts were modified for clarity.
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the samsung HD841 and the toshiba 4960 are just rebadged units
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to say "you get what you pay for" w/the 3960 is foolish.
you get A LOT more than you paid for, but only in the sound out of the deck. Certainly not in the construction quality of a $60 DVD player. But it sounds better than a lot of players that approach 10x its price.
I mean if you consider thats less then a person would spend in a night out drinking if the thing dies in a year you still got way more than your moneys worth
;D
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Yup. It seems to me that you get your moneys worth, as long as you keep in mind you didn't spend a shitload of money... just remember you didn't pay for the lexus of players, you paid about as much as you'd pay for any POS dvd player.
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Yup. It seems to me that you get your moneys worth, as long as you keep in mind you didn't spend a shitload of money... just remember you didn't pay for the lexus of players, you paid about as much as you'd pay for any POS dvd player.
Well said! +T
Edited: It seems that i'm being -T because I participated in this thread and may have offended someone with my words. If that's the case, grow up.
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Yup. It seems to me that you get your moneys worth, as long as you keep in mind you didn't spend a shitload of money... just remember you didn't pay for the lexus of players, you paid about as much as you'd pay for any POS dvd player.
Well said! +T
Edited: It seems that i'm being -T because I participated in this thread and may have offended someone with my words. If that's the case, grow up.
I think you're getting -T'd because
1. You whine... a lot
2. You have no experience whatsoever with this gear and continue to comment
3. You have a condescending attitude towards others on this board
4. You whine... a lot
I haven't -T'd you yet but I'm starting to think it could be fun to start since it seems to bother you so much.
You pulled this exact same crap with the Toshiba a few weeks ago when I posted a picture of my new amp and I handed you your ass then and thought that was the end of it. You mouthed off in this thread, I replied in a manner that I thought might convey to you that your input was not welcome and you couldn't take the hint. Maybe now you'll realize that I don't give a crap what you think about gear that you have never heard. If you're looking for a way to brag about your transport why don't you find a *positive* way to fluff your own gear instead of knocking other people's gear. It's really not that hard to show some deference or respect to other people but for some reason it seems to be impossible for you to participate in one of these threads without being completely condescending. You talk to people in here like we're a bunch of morons , no one in this thread believes that this $60 transport is the endall for high end redbook cd audio. Yet you act as though your prior experience with budget gear is giving you some tremendous insight about the quality of the Toshiba that everyone else seems to be missing. That is where you are wrong and that is where you become incredibly irritating.
You're the only person in the playback forum who acts that way and there are guys in here with systems that would lay waste to yours. Oddly enough though everyone else can discuss gear in a respectful manner, you seem to be the only one who thinks that his shit doesn't stink.
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Yup. It seems to me that you get your moneys worth, as long as you keep in mind you didn't spend a shitload of money... just remember you didn't pay for the lexus of players, you paid about as much as you'd pay for any POS dvd player.
Well said! +T
Edited: It seems that i'm being -T because I participated in this thread and may have offended someone with my words. If that's the case, grow up.
I think you're getting -T'd because
1. You whine... a lot
2. You have no experience whatsoever with this gear and continue to comment
3. You have a condescending attitude towards others on this board
4. You whine... a lot
I haven't -T'd you yet but I'm starting to think it could be fun to start since it seems to bother you so much.
You pulled this exact same crap with the Toshiba a few weeks ago when I posted a picture of my new amp and I handed you your ass then and thought that was the end of it. You mouthed off in this thread, I replied in a manner that I thought might convey to you that your input was not welcome and you couldn't take the hint. Maybe now you'll realize that I don't give a crap what you think about gear that you have never heard. If you're looking for a way to brag about your transport why don't you find a *positive* way to fluff your own gear instead of knocking other people's gear. It's really not that hard to show some deference or respect to other people but for some reason it seems to be impossible for you to participate in one of these threads without being completely condescending. You talk to people in here like we're a bunch of morons , no one in this thread believes that this $60 transport is the endall for high end redbook cd audio. Yet you act as though your prior experience with budget gear is giving you some tremendous insight about the quality of the Toshiba that everyone else seems to be missing. That is where you are wrong and that is where you become incredibly irritating.
You're the only person in the playback forum who acts that way and there are guys in here with systems that would lay waste to yours. Oddly enough though everyone else can discuss gear in a respectful manner, you seem to be the only one who thinks that his shit doesn't stink.
I posted a reply in the thread i locked. I couldn't pm you back.
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my 4960 won't spin dvds/cds anymore. it worked great for a couple of months tho.
I had this happen with mine once. The chassis in the 4960 REALLY needs to be dampened, as it creates a lot of vibration. Open the unit up, dampen it, then pull out the connecting ribbon and reattach it to the psb. My guess is you will be golden. Otherwise, the other answer is if the unit is still receiving power, there is a loose copnnection probably do to a bad solder joint somewhere. I would take a look. If it is entirely worthless to you, and you still have it, I will take it and fix it!
I am embarassed to ask this, since I've reviewed the Vinnie and Swenson mods, and searched audioasylum, headfi, and this forum for an answer, but...
How exactly does one "dampen" the chassis of a player? I gather that it may/may not involve caulk and/or adhesive linoleum tile. But where? How? Thanks!
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my 4960 won't spin dvds/cds anymore. it worked great for a couple of months tho.
I had this happen with mine once. The chassis in the 4960 REALLY needs to be dampened, as it creates a lot of vibration. Open the unit up, dampen it, then pull out the connecting ribbon and reattach it to the psb. My guess is you will be golden. Otherwise, the other answer is if the unit is still receiving power, there is a loose copnnection probably do to a bad solder joint somewhere. I would take a look. If it is entirely worthless to you, and you still have it, I will take it and fix it!
I am embarassed to ask this, since I've reviewed the Vinnie and Swenson mods, and searched audioasylum, headfi, and this forum for an answer, but...
How exactly does one "dampen" the chassis of a player? I gather that it may/may not involve caulk and/or adhesive linoleum tile. But where? How? Thanks!
I found this on google: http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?forum=digital&m=85598&highlight=3950
Hit CTRL+F and run a search for dampening. You'll read a comment about dampening "chasis with rope caulk."
A person here: http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=digital&m=85473
Discusses "I already applied the dampening mods to this Toshiba (sticky vinyl tiles inside the chasis)." Not sure how they exactly they do it.
This site discusses the 3950 (mentions dampening methods as well): http://www.audiosold.com/articles/toshmod.htm
Hope that helps a little!
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The sticky vinyl tiles are probably adhesive floor tiles. They'll dampen the chassis and sound barrier for transport noise. Better than flooring tiles is the adhesive deadening material that the car audio guys use. I think that is some kind of asphault panel with adhesive backing or a material like dynamat.
If you use this stuff, be sure not to cover the ventilation holes or block convection paths when the lid is secured. I've read some posts where people said that they used too much and it had a bad effect on the sound. I think that there are recommendations for size and placement of strips on some of the tweak pages.
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you mean that toshiba is only $60 and it plays dvd-a..? i might have to get one of those...
so what is the consensus life expectancy of the unit..?
Quote from: gloco on March 28, 2005, 07:49:21 PM
DVD-A and SACD are outta here thanks to lack of public interest, so yeah, whoever bought into those formats is screwed royally.
screwed royally? there are many great SACDs and DVD-As out there that imo are better than their redbook compliant siblings...while it is true that SACD and DVD-A have not taken off, the recordings that have been released in this format are fantastic...as a result, having a player that plays them is important to me.
qft.
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I'm under the impression that the 3960 does not play DVD-A... the 4960 does, but its a bit more expensive... $80 to $90
http://www.epinions.com/pr-Toshiba_SD-4960_DVD
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Is this 3960 a good choice for CD playback? or is it mainly for DVD playing?
I'm looking for a cheap, but descent quality CD player for my DAW.
One that has good analog outputs, since the amp I'm using now isn't digital.
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don't quote me on this, but i think i read once that the 3960 is bettery sounding than the 4960, however, the 4960 can do dvda/sacd playback where the 3960 can only do cd. again, don't quote me, but i think both units can be modded to sound better.
I never had the 3960, but did have the 4960, and I must say that i'd try to use them for audio playback moreso than video playback. I have an older samsung dvd player that i think the video was much better on, when comparing the two. plus i absolutely hate the remote for the 4960. however, my 4960 flaked out...but i think that might be partly my roommates fault and not the actual fault of the player.
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IS the 3980 the same basic transport as the 3960?
Can the 3960 mod be done in the same way on the 3980?
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don't take this for the gospel because I'm not familiar with the new models, but the thing that made the 3960's so attractive was the good chipset that was used in it (a Toshiba chip). After a while though, Toshiba quietly changed the chip in the unit to a bottom-of-the-line Zoran Vaddis 6 chip, without changing the model. It's quite possible then that the new models use this inferior chip, making it less of a steal at that price. This may or may not be true, and it's still a good price, but just a theory...
Also, the later 3960's with this chip are reported to have many more problems, so this might explain the original problems of the thread...
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the 3960 sounded rediculously good on redbook playback.
it rivaled my $2k Musical Fidelity CD-PRE24's sound.
When I bought mine ...I plugged it into the CD-PRE and did some A/B comparrisons of the transports and A/Ds. I could hear the difference w/the transports, but I could not hear any difference running ananlog.
so, I sold the CD-PRE and was happy.
Now I have a new Toshiba love.
4-5 years ago when SACD and DVD-A were new, Toshiba decided to embrace DVD-A and went with that format for their flagship deck, the SD-9200. This CD/DVD-A/DVD player costs over $2k new back then. I think it pushes 40lbs. BIG bitch...solid transport. Quality stuff. Stereophile gave it a class A rating.
So, you know its analog stereo performance kicks ass.
The best part is...this sucker runs for $450-600 used now.
winky winky!
I use my Sony as a DAC, so in my world it will be passing redbook and DVD-A LPCM. But if I ever go back to componants, or dont have a DAC...I know I wont really need one to get HQ sound from my playback. The 9200 should take care of that end with style. But'...we'll see.
:)
I was going to go w/the Denon 2900 as they are in the same ballpark in terms of used price. Did my homework for a week, and decided the Toshiba was a better choice for me.
Lots of them out there.
One on eBay now that is only $299 and has not been bid upon. I think it ends today!!
Too bad I commited to someone on agon or I would have bought it. $200 cheaper than the regular agon price.
FWIW...
Class A action for cheap. I love it.
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Apparently the toshiba 4960 is a rebadged samsung dvd unit:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100799&highlight=toshiba+3960
I know my music hall cd-25 is also a rebadged unit, let me see if i can find the link for that as well. It seems that quite a few audiophile-like sources are coming out of China at rock bottom prices. Too bad the shipping costs far outweigh the potential cost savings.
Music Hall is made by shanling out of China I believe. You can easily get the shanling version much cheaper as well if you look around. The onix player at av123.com is of the same breed, and mods, commercially speaking are coming from them and are availible from a secondary carrier on audiogon right now as well. I believe this would be perfect for DIY as well, and if interested, I can find the instructions...though I am not sure it would be worth the time and cost seeing as it is CD only and the 4960 would be universal.
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the 3960 sounded rediculously good on redbook playback.
it rivaled my $2k Musical Fidelity CD-PRE24's sound.
When I bought mine ...I plugged it into the CD-PRE and did some A/B comparrisons of the transports and A/Ds. I could hear the difference w/the transports, but I could not hear any difference running ananlog.
so, I sold the CD-PRE and was happy.
Now I have a new Toshiba love.
4-5 years ago when SACD and DVD-A were new, Toshiba decided to embrace DVD-A and went with that format for their flagship deck, the SD-9200. This CD/DVD-A/DVD player costs over $2k new back then. I think it pushes 40lbs. BIG bitch...solid transport. Quality stuff. Stereophile gave it a class A rating.
So, you know its analog stereo performance kicks ass.
The best part is...this sucker runs for $450-600 used now.
winky winky!
I use my Sony as a DAC, so in my world it will be passing redbook and DVD-A LPCM. But if I ever go back to componants, or dont have a DAC...I know I wont really need one to get HQ sound from my playback. The 9200 should take care of that end with style. But'...we'll see.
:)
I was going to go w/the Denon 2900 as they are in the same ballpark in terms of used price. Did my homework for a week, and decided the Toshiba was a better choice for me.
Lots of them out there.
One on eBay now that is only $299 and has not been bid upon. I think it ends today!!
Too bad I commited to someone on agon or I would have bought it. $200 cheaper than the regular agon price.
FWIW...
Class A action for cheap. I love it.
Nick, are talking about the stock 3960 here?
Mine has just started getting flaky... It's randomly stop passing signal in the middle of a disc... ???
Weird. I still like it though.
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Apparently the toshiba 4960 is a rebadged samsung dvd unit:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100799&highlight=toshiba+3960
I know my music hall cd-25 is also a rebadged unit, let me see if i can find the link for that as well. It seems that quite a few audiophile-like sources are coming out of China at rock bottom prices. Too bad the shipping costs far outweigh the potential cost savings.
Music Hall is made by shanling out of China I believe. You can easily get the shanling version much cheaper as well if you look around. The onix player at av123.com is of the same breed, and mods, commercially speaking are coming from them and are availible from a secondary carrier on audiogon right now as well. I believe this would be perfect for DIY as well, and if interested, I can find the instructions...though I am not sure it would be worth the time and cost seeing as it is CD only and the 4960 would be universal.
Indeed. I've been thinking about upgrading from my cd-25 to a universal player so i can enjoy some dvd-a and sacd titles out there. I'm sure i'll take the plunge sometime this year as well as upgrade the headphone amp.
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Seeing as I do all 24 bit, having a cd player only makes zero sense to me at the moment. That said, those with lots of cd titles swear by them, and I have no doubt they make a differnce.
Now, if I could just figure out how to set-up my new subwoofer, which weighs 90 freaking pounds, we will be in business!
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Apparently the toshiba 4960 is a rebadged samsung dvd unit:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100799&highlight=toshiba+3960
I know my music hall cd-25 is also a rebadged unit, let me see if i can find the link for that as well. It seems that quite a few audiophile-like sources are coming out of China at rock bottom prices. Too bad the shipping costs far outweigh the potential cost savings.
Music Hall is made by shanling out of China I believe.
other way around.
Shanling is made by music hall
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yes, that was a stock 3960 btw. I ended up sending it out for modifications...and then it sounded even better.
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I can dig the 4960, but man, it's pretty lame that it does this stutter thing at the track marks. Its pretty hard to convince a skeptic that this player is da bomb when it can't even do seamless track jumps - technology from like 15 years ago or so...
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Mine doesn't stutter, but mine is also modded almost to the point where very little is now stock. I have replaced almost every single cap on the board, and the next step is opamps. Maybe that has something to do with it? ???
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Apparently the toshiba 4960 is a rebadged samsung dvd unit:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100799&highlight=toshiba+3960
I know my music hall cd-25 is also a rebadged unit, let me see if i can find the link for that as well. It seems that quite a few audiophile-like sources are coming out of China at rock bottom prices. Too bad the shipping costs far outweigh the potential cost savings.
Music Hall is made by shanling out of China I believe.
other way around.
Shanling is made by music hall
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification! Maybe i should get one of those retro looking tube cd players from shanling :D
Looks very star trekish, in person especially.
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Mine doesn't stutter, but mine is also modded almost to the point where very little is now stock. I have replaced almost every single cap on the board, and the next step is opamps. Maybe that has something to do with it?
I don't see why that would have any effect on the stutter, the caps you replaced should be in the power supply and analog section, stutter would be an issue reading the information from the disc.
Does this thing stutter on all discs or just particular or CDR/DVD-Rs?
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I thought we already agreed that it was a caching/buffering issue...? Unless daryan put some new "RAM" in there I don't think that would solve it ;) :)
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I'm telling you, mine doesn't do this, I promise. :'(
Those shanling players on the gon are too cool, but dropping 2 g's on a cd player is just insane, as always, in my opinion.
Think it's possible to change out the RAM at curiosity?
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I thought we already agreed that it was a caching/buffering issue...? Unless daryan put some new "RAM" in there I don't think that would solve it ;) :)
Yup. I've also emailed a couple people who do mods on Agon and they said their mods wouldn't effect this problem. We also determined that I might have a bunk unit.
Concerning the cd type- I only have a bunch of Taiyos, so I don't know if its a disc problem... but the discs play fine in my other cd players, so its still pretty weak that it chokes on discs other players dont.
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I have the schematic, does anyone know what a ram buffer unit would lok like on the schematic for possible replacement?
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I have the schematic, does anyone know what a ram buffer unit would lok like on the schematic for possible replacement?
Why do you want to replace it? You said yours worked fine...?
I have no idea if it's "RAM" or even solid state memory, I just sort of threw that out there.. Hell it could be JK Flipflops made out of shoe string for all I know.. ;)
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I don't. I just thought I would look to see if it was possible for those that are having problems. I did a little research, and this problem is NOT inherent to all of the units.
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I did a little research, and this problem is NOT inherent to all of the units.
I dont think you understand the problem then because both of the outfits that do mods on audiogon acknowledge this is part of the design of the units. With CDs, when you fast forward a track, it will start the song a second into it. You will never notice it on most CDs, but on ones where the cuts are right at the start of the music you will. I have it with my stock HD841 which the toshiba is a rebadged unit, or vice versa. You will never hear it if you play discs straight through or if the songs dont start right on que
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I stand corrected then, as I guess I have never noticed it. That said, if it is a problem with the memory buffer, I bet it could be fixed and could be corrected. I just don't even know what to look for, but I have an inkling I know someone that does and ca find out if it is correctable.
Do you guys actually pay all that money to have this thing modded at curiosity?
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Those shanling players on the gon are too cool, but dropping 2 g's on a cd player is just insane, as always, in my opinion.
I dunno. A few years ago i would've dismissed those high priced audiophile players as a collector's item, but after hearing some high priced rigs, i liked what i heard. However, i cannot tell how much of that sound is just the speakers over the source. Hopefully in the near future i'll start getting more opportunity to swap out sources and see what works and doesn't, after all, it comes down to the sonic signature that attracts people like us to various sources.
Plus, it doesn't help that a few people on head-fi obtain a killer high end source and everyone that hears it falls in love with it :'(
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Do you guys actually pay all that money to have this thing modded at curiosity?
no, mine is stock...it is a gap filler til I can get a better unit....
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Do you guys actually pay all that money to have this thing modded at curiosity?
Not sure how you mean this, but I do believe you took a $250-300 receiver and and put $1400 into it. Pot calling the kettle black???
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yea....
how much did you put into the Panasonic?
can you say...'snake oil?
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Snake oil my ass ;D Let your ears be the judge. The panny was already extremely well built, and by putting that dough into it is turned into a world class 5 channel amp. The toshiba is plastic in comparision, so that's why I wouldn't do the mods if I couldn't have pulled them off for 100 bucks or so. I did want to post this link for you guys....
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/wonews/jun05/0605ngeek.html
It really is this easy, and turns the player into a giant killer. It's still got the platic chassis though, hence my comments about sinking all the coin into it.
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for the money and cost of what you have, you dont' think you could have bettered it in the used market?
shit, even a Sony 9000es would have been in that range. but there would be a lot you could have done.
i'm sure it sounds wonderful.
enjoy
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I honestly do not think so. Once I was able to actually a/b the two, the sound wasn't even remotely similar. I will be happy to let you listen to it nick. I will try to remember to send it to you next time I am out of town for an extended period.
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If you insist.
:)
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I do!!!! It will probably be sometime in July, I think I will be in Maryland for a bit!
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I have to say, I don't know about that model, but... the Toshiba SD-4900 is AWESOME. It's been discontinued though, probably because it does PAL>NTSC and can easily be all region hacked. It's played everything I have EVER tried on it, including dual layer DVD+R DL. Also, the quality is VERY great, Just a totally amazing player.
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motherfuckin' BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM