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Author Topic: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features  (Read 21814 times)

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Offline landshark

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Offline flintstone

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 03:10:27 PM »
Better battery life, too.  Seems like Zoom has re-designed the H2 in several ways.  The upgrade is welcome.  Zoom introduced the H2 in July 2007.

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Offline ben_r_

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 04:50:17 PM »
Zoom.... They just keep trying to jam more and more into their devices. Theyre all about marketing.

Offline illconditioned

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 05:14:24 PM »
This could be good, especially if the internal mics were replaced.

I've been tempted by the original H2, since it has four inputs.  I'm thinking two for mics (replace internals) and two for (attenuated) line input from SBD.

If anyone gets this, please let us see the internal mics.  I'm guessing they make the "side" channel with back-to-back cardioids.

  Richard
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Offline flintstone

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 09:09:08 AM »
A few more detials in this article
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/audio/hands-reviews/new-zoom-h2n-rewrites-book-portable-recording

I'm concerned about the ergonomics of this recorder.  It looks like the record button and transport controls are positioned at the bottom of the front panel, which makes them hard to reach when holding the H2n in your hand. Seems like Zoom expects you to mount the H2n on a tripod or video camera more often than running hand-held.

Offline Walstib62

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 09:55:36 AM »
At $200, if those mics sound decent, this would be a very easy way to do a 4 channel recording onstage, hanging overhead or stand mounted.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 10:52:18 AM »
Is there any software available for Mac that makes it simple to convert 4 tracks, such as from this H2n as well as the Tascam DR-2d, into surround sound audio DVD's?
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 03:17:13 AM »
This looks like it will trump the market for one-piece recorders - "mics that record" . 

The configuration of the mics seems to be the same as was first announced for the H2, but production models of the H2 lacked the MS facility. 

Given that remarkable recordings possible with the venerable H2, this new model should be a cracker. I guess my Sony M10 will be hitting eBay (I hate its lousy stereo imaging).

[Edit - just pre-ordered... heh, this is an expensive forum to read!]
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 04:33:12 AM by Ozpeter »

Offline hi and lo

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2011, 08:05:42 PM »
oh cool, a new Zoom product!

          

I can't wait to accommodate the idiot sbd patchers that show up 15 minutes before the headliner!





Offline easyed

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2011, 10:32:44 PM »
This looks like it will trump the market for one-piece recorders - "mics that record" . 

The configuration of the mics seems to be the same as was first announced for the H2, but production models of the H2 lacked the MS facility. 

Given that remarkable recordings possible with the venerable H2, this new model should be a cracker. I guess my Sony M10 will be hitting eBay (I hate its lousy stereo imaging).

[Edit - just pre-ordered... heh, this is an expensive forum to read!]

My experience with the Zoom is that it is a terrible worthless POS.  I think the gain might be digital, that is, it happens after the analog > digital conversion.  It's like a digital camera, take a shitty photo and then blow it up after the fact, you are just enlarging a grainy low resolution photo.  The only thing I would use a Zoom for is recording talking around a conference table or practicing an acoustic instrument in the living room.

See this article from August 2008 issue of Pro Audio Review about Prosumer Portable compact flash recorders:
http://www.jellyinajar.com/ProsumerPortablesInAProWorld.jpg
(I've scanned it as a jpg and uploaded it to one of my sites)

If you would give up a PCM-M10 for any Zoom device, I would snatch up the PCM-M10 in a heartbeat.  Seriously - you want to sell it, I'm interested.
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2011, 05:14:31 PM »
My experience with the Zoom is that it is a terrible worthless POS.  I think the gain might be digital, that is, it happens after the analog > digital conversion.  It's like a digital camera, take a shitty photo and then blow it up after the fact, you are just enlarging a grainy low resolution photo.  The only thing I would use a Zoom for is recording talking around a conference table or practicing an acoustic instrument in the living room.

Gain has always been digital in previous models. Reducing the level below 100 to keep the meters under 0 dB does not prevent distortion (at least on the H4 and H2).

I hate ZOOM recorders and am puzzled by Ozpeter's love for them, given how knowledgeable he is. I'm guessing he likes the built in mics for less than critical applications because the only plus I can see on previous ZOOM models is that the built in mics are pretty good.
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Offline flintstone

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2011, 08:45:40 PM »
"...puzzled by Ozpeter's love of [the Zoom H2]..."

I think it's because of results like this
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=93532.0

The H2 has strengths and weaknesses, like any inexpensive recorder.  Just because a recorder isn't the best fit for your needs doesn't mean it won't work for someone with different needs.

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Offline easyed

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2011, 10:04:36 PM »
"...puzzled by Ozpeter's love of [the Zoom H2]..."

I think it's because of results like this
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=93532.0

The H2 has strengths and weaknesses, like any inexpensive recorder.  Just because a recorder isn't the best fit for your needs doesn't mean it won't work for someone with different needs.

Flintstone

I think what this demonstrates is how important placement of mics and room's acoustics are, point being that placed in the right spot in a good sounding room even inexpensive recorders with serious design flaws (like digital gain) can make very useable recordings.

And yes if you fail do research the pros and cons of different recorders on the market and have already purchased one and you are happy with what it does, then good for you.  For people still researching with intent to buy, please don't buy Zoom!
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2011, 07:42:37 PM »
Thanks for digging up that old thread, Flintstone.  I'm staggered how long ago it was posted!  The samples still play.  Listening again just now I think the chief difference between the H2 recording and the "real" recording is a sense of "smoothness" in the latter, but considering the price and size difference between the two rigs, I would still describe the H2 recording as "remarkable".

Quote
I hate ZOOM recorders and am puzzled by Ozpeter's love for them, given how knowledgeable he is. I'm guessing he likes the built in mics for less than critical applications because the only plus I can see on previous ZOOM models is that the built in mics are pretty good.

Indeed it's a matter of "fitness for purpose" and therefore one can't generalise about what is the "best" recorder. 

I guess one could say that hand-holdable recorders have up to four overall uses -

- recording from built in mics (using the device as a 'mic that records')
- recording using external mics connected to the mic input
- recording from a line-level source (mixing board or mic preamp usually)
- recording from a digital source (such as a mic preamp having a digital output)

Of course not all devices are capable of accepting all these input types.

Perhaps the greatest differences between the various models are found in the built in mics.  Then comes the differences in mic inputs (chiefly in the matter of connector types and noise performance), then in line inputs (where IMHO the differences are pretty small compared to the mic and mic input differences) and lastly the digital inputs, where in theory there should be no differences between models.

In theory one could identify a recorder which has overall the best of all these four worlds, but many users are more interested in one aspect than another. 

In my case, I don't have much of a use for non-phantom-powered mic inputs (I have an R-44 and other devices for use with high quality mics), so if the mic input of the H2n turns out to be as noisy as that on the H2, I'm not that fussed.  It would be handy if it turned out to be ok, but for me no more than that.

I would hope that the H2n line input is acceptable because I usually run a backup stereo mix to a second device when using the R-44 or other main recorder, and if the H2n can replace my Sony M-10 in that role, it would be one less device to keep in the cupboard between gigs.

Neither the H2n nor the M-10 have a digital input, so there's no discussion there.

So, for me and for my purposes, the critical thing I'm looking for in a new small recorder is mic quality - in terms of frequency response, noise, and stereo image.  No point for me if the noise level is low and the frequency response is flat and wide if the stereo image is poor.

The stereo image - and variety thereof - obtainable from the H2n should be second to none (but we'll have to wait and see if it lives up to expectations).  Given that it's a surprising number of years since the H2 was released, the frequency response and noise levels should be better in the new model, and in that case I know I'll be pleased.  As I've often said, for me the stereo image obtained from the M10 is very poor, as I should have expected given the choice of mic type and mic placement within the case, which means that I can only use it (personally) as a line input device chiefly as a backup to the R-44.  It's a superb little recorder with a very nice mic input for those who want that, but for me it doesn't cover enough roles to justify its keep (though I might keep it just because it's such a well engineered device!).

I've been professionally recording live acoustic music since 1969 and I hate to think of the amount of gear I've heaved over all those years, not to mention the setting up and the laying of cables in trip-free locations, etc etc.  Often all that effort has been applied to the simple matter of deploying a single stereo pair, which is often all that's required for acoustic performances if correctly located.  The concept of being able to use a 'mic that records' with no need for all the rest of the stuff appeals to me no end, and I'd be delighted if that turns out to be possible before I finally hang up my headphones.  Will the H2n provide that possibility for appropriate occasions?  We'll see...

Which brings us to level setting.  On the H2 there were, really, only two levels although high, medium and low were available.  The setting for low-level audio was demonstrably no better in terms of overall signal to noise ratio than the middle level - using the middle level and applying digital gain in post production gave the same result as using the low level setting without digital gain.  The switch position for high level audio was on the whole appropriate for amplified music which I'm not normally involved with.  So for my purposes the middle setting was "set and forget".

That corresponds to my experience with using a high quality mic pair with a matching preamp.  Over many years of recording I came to realise that there was, for almost all acoustic music recordings, a single correct level which I marked with a red line next to the gain knob, and it was rarely necessary to adjust from there during a soundcheck.  Mic placement tends to look after level differences.  If recording, say, an acoustic guitar recital, the mic is usually placed pretty close.  For a (louder) string quartet the mics are further away, so the level at the mic is not that much different than for the guitar recording.  For a symphony orchestra, you're further away again, so even though it's radically louder than the guitar, the mic placement deals with that, and the preamp setting remains the same.  Obviously there's some exceptions but for the recording I do, gain setting is not much of a big deal, and so the crude gain setting of the H2 (using always the neutral setting of "100" for its digital gain setting) was actually no problem.

I am however slightly suspicious about the gain knob of the new H2n - it's carefully described as "analog-style" which could mean that it's an analog knob controlling digital gain.  Or it could be a conventional analog gain control, or it could be an implementation of digitally-controlled analog gain.  We may be arguing about which it is for months to come - the gain arrangements of the R-44 were similarly puzzling and hard to be sure about.

Obviously when this new recorder arrives I'll report back, though where I stand in the queue I have no idea - it could be in many reviewers' hands long before mine makes it across from the USA to Australia.

Sorry for length...

Offline cybergaloot

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2011, 03:52:56 PM »

Gain has always been digital in previous models. Reducing the level below 100 to keep the meters under 0 dB does not prevent distortion (at least on the H4 and H2).


This is not true! There is a three position analog gain switch on the side of the original H2 and then there is the digital gain. I almost never used the digital gain and just went with the closest switch position. Recording at 24 bit I could amplify it later.

I've all sorts of crap from all sorts of people about the H2 that isn't true. I've heard a lot of people call it a flimsy piece of crap but mine has been cranking along for four years and has been out on loan several times. It has has not been handled with kid gloves and it still works fine. The biggest drawback of the original is the crappy external mic input. I've run plenty of external mics through preamps into the line in port with no problems. And yes, I have gotten good recordings with the unit. I rarely use it myself anymore as I prefer my R-44 but I keep it as a backup. I wouldn't compare it to a more expensive recorder, you get what you pay for (hopefully), but it isn't as bad as all the detractors make it out to be.

At the current time though I would recommend that a newbie look around before purchasing in this price range simply because there are a whole bunch more available now. Four years ago this was the cheapest digital recorder on the market.
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Offline cybergaloot

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2011, 04:10:53 PM »

The configuration of the mics seems to be the same as was first announced for the H2, but production models of the H2 lacked the MS facility. 


I don't think so Peter. First off there are now five mics and the two stereo pairs seem to be both 90 degree XY. 
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2011, 12:36:52 AM »
Quote
First off there are now five mics and the two stereo pairs seem to be both 90 degree XY.
As far as I can judge from the videos and the press release, on the front face there is an MS array comprising one forward-facing mic plus a pair of side facing mics back to back imitating a fig of 8 mic, hopefully all three mounted in a column vertically for phase coherence.  On the rear face there's a phase coherent 90 degree pair definitely mounted one above the other. 

You have at least five if not six or even seven output options - the knob on the top selects four options with the sub-options for MS dematrixing or not set in the display using the jog button.

- MS recorded from the front array dematrixed to L/R (two tracks recorded)
- MS recorded from the front array undematrixed ("Raw" they call it) with one track "mid" and the other track "side" for altering width in your DAW later, or in the unit (two tracks recorded)
- XY from the rear pair only (two tracks)
- MS from the front plus XY from the rear, mixed down in the recorder to two recorded tracks (stereo), balanced using the display and job button.  Not a good option unless you don't have a DAW for post-production.
- MS from the front plus XY from the rear, unmixed and recorded on four tracks.

It may be possible that the last option is actually two options, whereby the MS array would be recorded either dematrixed or undematrixed (raw) onto two tracks, with the XY recorded onto the other two tracks.  And, if you use the MS option with the side signal right down, you've essentially got a mono recording off the front-facing mic, which could be useful for interviews, and you could regard that as a seventh option.

For acoustic music in reverberant spaces these options should provide considerable flexibility, especially using a DAW after to vary the mix as required.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 12:38:59 AM by Ozpeter »

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2011, 08:29:12 AM »
I think I was wrong in that I didn't que in on the "As first announced" part. I do seem to remember that at first the planned on five mics for the H2 and the production model went down to four.
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2011, 08:53:17 AM »

For acoustic music in reverberant spaces these options should provide considerable flexibility, especially using a DAW after to vary the mix as required.

I seem to remember in the H2 thread that you recommended a software for mixing in 4 channels and then burning it to a DVD disc in 5.1, but I believe it was for PC only. Have you heard of one for Mac?
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2011, 07:20:13 PM »
Quote
I seem to remember in the H2 thread that you recommended a software for mixing in 4 channels and then burning it to a DVD disc in 5.1, but I believe it was for PC only. Have you heard of one for Mac?
Hmm.  I don't think I would have made any recommendations re 5.1 as I always use plain stereo, but you might care to have a look at the beta version of Reaper 4, or the new Mac version of Adobe Audition - but stick to the demo versions before spending money on something that might not do the job.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2011, 01:32:51 PM »
Quote
I seem to remember in the H2 thread that you recommended a software for mixing in 4 channels and then burning it to a DVD disc in 5.1, but I believe it was for PC only. Have you heard of one for Mac?
Hmm.  I don't think I would have made any recommendations re 5.1 as I always use plain stereo, but you might care to have a look at the beta version of Reaper 4, or the new Mac version of Adobe Audition - but stick to the demo versions before spending money on something that might not do the job.

I guess I was thinking of someone else. Thanks for the info.
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Offline wipeman

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 04:42:51 AM »
Quote
First off there are now five mics and the two stereo pairs seem to be both 90 degree XY.
As far as I can judge from the videos and the press release, on the front face there is an MS array comprising one forward-facing mic plus a pair of side facing mics back to back imitating a fig of 8 mic, hopefully all three mounted in a column vertically for phase coherence.  On the rear face there's a phase coherent 90 degree pair definitely mounted one above the other. 

You have at least five if not six or even seven output options - the knob on the top selects four options with the sub-options for MS dematrixing or not set in the display using the jog button.

- MS recorded from the front array dematrixed to L/R (two tracks recorded)
- MS recorded from the front array undematrixed ("Raw" they call it) with one track "mid" and the other track "side" for altering width in your DAW later, or in the unit (two tracks recorded)
- XY from the rear pair only (two tracks)
- MS from the front plus XY from the rear, mixed down in the recorder to two recorded tracks (stereo), balanced using the display and job button.  Not a good option unless you don't have a DAW for post-production.
- MS from the front plus XY from the rear, unmixed and recorded on four tracks.

It may be possible that the last option is actually two options, whereby the MS array would be recorded either dematrixed or undematrixed (raw) onto two tracks, with the XY recorded onto the other two tracks.  And, if you use the MS option with the side signal right down, you've essentially got a mono recording off the front-facing mic, which could be useful for interviews, and you could regard that as a seventh option.

For acoustic music in reverberant spaces these options should provide considerable flexibility, especially using a DAW after to vary the mix as required.

Add another option to that list... according to the review linked below it is possible to record using the MS capsules AND from an external mic at the same time, a feature missing from the original H2. It seems that when in 4ch mode, plugging in an external mic will override the XY capsules only. There would presumably only be the format restriction of being limited to 44.1/48kHz, 16/24bit when in 4ch mode, but that's no problem for me. This would be very useful indeed.

http://www.drivebyhighfive.net/2011/08/26/a-new-audio-toy-reviewing-the-zoom-h2n-recorder/

It also sounds like the external mic input is pretty good (listen to the sound samples of the Rode condenser mic).

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2011, 10:16:14 PM »
Interesting!

Mine has been shipped and due here 7th Sept - obviously I will give some impressions here as soon as I can.

Edit - just listened to the samples in the review in the preceding post (thanks for that link) and I'm very impressed.  They certainly seem to have the mic input sorted out (compared to the original H2).    A direct comparison with the M10 is going to be interesting.

If the internal mics are as good as they appear to be, then perhaps this will open up novel ways of working - for instance, ok, it's got no balanced mic inputs, but if using it as a mic, you should be able to record using a remote device connected via its line output connected via a single mic cable via suitable adapters at each end to send left right and common instead of hot cold common - balancing should not be an issue over moderate distances at line level.  Record on the H2N itself and also on the remote device for redundancy.

And the ability to record MS plus two external mics gives rise to the possibility of using it as a main pair with a couple of spot mics, a configuration which covers a lot of the requirements for chamber music recording.   Battery powered systems can often manage remarkably well in unbalanced mode.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 11:05:08 PM by Ozpeter »

Offline fguidry

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2011, 12:31:16 AM »
I've done some comparos between the H2n, H2, and a pretty good stationary rig consisting of a Rode NT4 and Echo Audiofire: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/09/01/second-look-at-the-h2n-external-mics-and-line-in/

Basically I'd say the big boost in battery life is the most important change. The continuously variable mic gain in the analog domain is nice but I got along with the HML switch pretty well. I'm hearing a slight improvement in self-noise but still some distance from the NT4/Echo setup.

And I did some tests with the NT4 going in as an external mic, then did a comparison between the H2n line in and the H2: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/09/01/second-look-at-the-h2n-external-mics-and-line-in/

The external mic can be used as part of the four channel scheme, but the external mic gain is very low and there's no way to adjust the relative gain between the internal and external mic. And the line in is basically the same - over sensitive - as the H2 line in. It's now combined with the mic jack, but when the gain is turned to 0 it acts just like the separate line in on the H2.

Fran


Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2011, 12:31:04 AM »
Also posted on the Zoom forums so don't bother to read if you've read it there -

Mine has arrived, and I'm in love.  I think they've made a great job of it.  In a very quick test, stereo imaging with MS is excellent - walking round the mic announcing "middle, 45 degrees, 90 degrees" etc came up very well on headphones (ie replayed position was as described, pinpoint).  I also did a quick test of the handling of lower frequencies by means of a crude recording in front of a speaker system which has a subwoofer that rather exaggerates the bottom end, and again on headphones what played back was what I'd heard through my own ears.  It's certainly not thin sounding.  Noise - did a test recording of a very quiet sound in a quiet room (hum from a UPS actually) and then replayed it in headphones so that the level heard through my own ears was the same as the level on the recording, and there was no significant noise added.  Of course if you turn the level up unnaturally, you'll hear some noise, but for music recording that's not a requirement.  Playback should always equal originally heard level to avoid skewing the perceived frequency response.  For nature recording of course that rule need not be followed.

Only downside is that there's no pause button as such.  Your choices are
- to stop recording and start a new file after the period when you would have paused
- to use the "pause on mark" function which does pause when you press the play (mark) button, but then you can't place a mark without pausing
- to use the remote, which does have a dedicated pause button.

The other thing which puzzled me was how to display the levels before recording.  When you turn the device on, it's doing that already, and likewise when you stop recording it carries on monitoring.   But when you play back, you find yourself in the playback screen with no monitoring.  Answer is to press and hold the "menu" button, which then displays the "home" screen which is actually the screen which displays levels prior to recording.

That apart, I like the controls and it's all very simple to use.  Display is fine even though the resolution is fairly low - it does the job.  Metering is good (nice long scale) though there is no way to clear the overload indicators without stopping recording.  Not the only device which has that design fault.

More to follow when I have completed some other urgent matters!  Damn, I want to play with this thing...

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2011, 10:51:26 PM »
For the record, the level on the H2N which corresponds to the "M 100" level on the H2 seems to be around 4.  So that's a good setting to start with when recording acoustic music.

Offline kleiner Rainer

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Why Sony chose omnis for the M10 (probably)
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2011, 04:21:26 AM »
Hi all,

maybe Sony chose omnis, because they are much less sensitive to wind and grip noise than cardioids. Cardioids also need access holes to the backside of the capsule, because they work as pressure GRADIENT transducers, omnis are pressure transducers. There is not enough space in the M10 to acommodate the elastic, grip-noise deadening suspension that cardioids need to operate properly. Omnis are much more forgiving in this regard.

For interviews, the M10 is excellent. I also used my M10 in a pinch for stereo recordings. The result is not the optimum possible, but it sounds quite good for an "emergency recording".

I used a H2, but the build quality of the M10 (and the D50, which i also own) is far better.

Greetings,

Rainer
recording steam trains since 1985

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2011, 05:27:07 PM »
Is there any software available for Mac that makes it simple to convert 4 tracks, such as from this H2n as well as the Tascam DR-2d, into surround sound audio DVD's?

There is indeed. And quite a choice.

Have a look at David Courville's Zoom to Five plugin. This is originally intended for the H2 but should also work with the 4-channel recordings from the H2n. I use it in Twisted Wave which is the least expensive Mac audio software capable of multichannel work and a really good one at that.

You might also try Zoom's own Vortex Zoom Encoder, again meant for the H2 and H4n, but I expect it should also work with material from the H2n.

Ralf
Photography and industrial audioscapes from Western Europe. - Sound examples: http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf - Blog (German): http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2011, 07:53:18 PM »
Is there any software available for Mac that makes it simple to convert 4 tracks, such as from this H2n as well as the Tascam DR-2d, into surround sound audio DVD's?

There is indeed. And quite a choice.

Have a look at David Courville's Zoom to Five plugin. This is originally intended for the H2 but should also work with the 4-channel recordings from the H2n. I use it in Twisted Wave which is the least expensive Mac audio software capable of multichannel work and a really good one at that.

You might also try Zoom's own Vortex Zoom Encoder, again meant for the H2 and H4n, but I expect it should also work with material from the H2n.

Ralf

Excellent information! Thanks, Ralf.

Best,

Phillip
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline Kewl

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2011, 08:52:12 PM »
I'll chime in here just to say that I'm a bit disappointed that, although the H2n features four? five? capsules (and would like to see a picture inside the H2n...), there's no way to access the original signal of those caps: what is recorded is already processed. Anyway, having access to the direct signal would allow me to design a plug-in for the H2n, like the one I did for the original H2.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2011, 09:01:01 PM »
Quote
I'll chime in here just to say that I'm a bit disappointed that, although the H2n features four? five? capsules (and would like to see a picture inside the H2n...), there's no way to access the original signal of those caps: what is recorded is already processed. Anyway, having access to the direct signal would allow me to design a plug-in for the H2n, like the one I did for the original H2.
The H2N has five capsules, but these are more like four as one pair are, in effect, a figure of 8 capsule.  You can record, simultaneously, on four separate tracks (well, two stereo), the output from the mid mic, the "virtual" figure of 8 side mic, and the two X/Y capsules.  The only thing you can't do is to access the side capsules individually.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 10:11:37 PM by Ozpeter »

Offline wipeman

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2011, 11:01:34 AM »
I got mine this afternoon. Nice little recorder. PLASTIC tripod mount though (H2's was metal)...

I did some EIN noise tests on it to start me off.
* NB I assumed that the H2n's gain range is 0 to 39dB with no part of the range set as "digital attenuation" (as on the H1 and the Sony M10).

Code: [Select]
LEVEL    GAIN (dB)    EIN
 0        0.0      -99.1
 1        3.9      -100.0
 2        7.8      -100.2
 3        11.7     -107.7
 4        15.6     -108.0
 5        19.5     -114.5
 6        23.4     -114.4
 7        27.3     -114.8
 8        31.2     -114.4
 9        35.1     -113.9
10        39.0     -114.0

I've done a few such tests of a few recorders I've had in my possession (one or two very briefly) and here's a plot:



My numbers seem to coincide with other measurements out there and for the gain range where I tend to record (lowish i.e. 10-20dB) it would appear that the H2n and M10 are close. In the higher gain ranges the M10 is clearly ahead.

In any case, I think we can safely say that Zoom have fixed the noisy mic input compared with the H2 :)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 12:00:33 PM by wipeman »

Offline sunjan

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2011, 03:49:50 AM »
Nice graph!
What software and method did you use?!
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Offline sabersae

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H2n, as Audio Interface?
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2011, 05:24:31 PM »
hi everybody
i wana know what exactly the h2n does as a usb Audio Interface(A/I)?

if i connect it to pc, can I have access to all of the ms track(s) and x/y tracks(or line-in tracks simultaneously?

please tell me about it's latency, how fast it operate's as an A/I?

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2011, 03:09:09 AM »
An ambient recording (me walking the dogs up the park and driving them home) which I think gives a good impression of the H2N in that role -

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/22/1451533/Out%20with%20the%20dogs.mp3

[Dead link - now it's on YouTube at https://youtu.be/mhHyauXwAko ]
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 11:42:54 AM by Ozpeter »

Offline person

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2011, 08:03:24 PM »
Anyone tried one of these at high SPL? Say 100-110db, onstage or around the room at midsized rock concerts. My primary sticking point with mics-that-record is whether they crap out when things get loud  :'(

Offline Walstib62

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2011, 09:03:03 PM »
It would be a great way to get a quick easy onstage "surround" (not 5.1) recording. 

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2011, 06:51:38 PM »
I don't know whether non-members can hear the sample at http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/672381-thank-heavens-hand-held-recordist-there-today.html but if so, I think it's impressive.  H2N vs AKG C426B and Nagra.

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2011, 07:10:51 PM »

An ambient recording (me walking the dogs up the park and driving them home) which I think gives a good impression of the H2N in that role -

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/22/1451533/Out%20with%20the%20dogs.mp3
Link doesn't work.

Also, can you say what pattern and gain settings you used.

Thanks!
  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2011, 10:42:31 PM »
MS, but I don't recall other settings.  Site is down for maintenance, maybe check the link again later.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2022, 01:28:04 AM »
I'll chime in here just to say that I'm a bit disappointed that, although the H2n features four? five? capsules (and would like to see a picture inside the H2n...), there's no way to access the original signal of those caps: what is recorded is already processed. Anyway, having access to the direct signal would allow me to design a plug-in for the H2n, like the one I did for the original H2.

For the precise mic configuration, see this teardown - https://youtu.be/gGXtHOPgp1k - the mics can be seen from 5:00 onwards.  It appears that there are 4 mics, but the mic supplying the mid signal for the MS pair is a real fig of 8 capsule rather than back to back cardioids.  Can that really be counted as 2 mics?  Well, who cares, the main thing is that it's clearly a front facing MS pair and a rear facing coincident XY pair.  The views of the circuit boards provide info on the chips in use and give the impression of a well-constructed device overall.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom? H2n, has some interesting selecable pattern features
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2022, 11:44:16 AM »
While I was busy resurrecting this 11 year old thread, I've uploaded the sample file I mentioned a few posts back to YouTube so that it doesn't get lost forever.

https://youtu.be/mhHyauXwAko - "Out with the dogs".

 

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