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Author Topic: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3  (Read 53399 times)

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Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #345 on: October 25, 2022, 12:41:15 AM »
Hear, hear! I'm with checht: big props to GB! Have been consistent pulls with the OMT8 set up. Happy with this WolfDog recording at Westville Music Bowl: https://archive.org/details/bw2022-10-01.omt8audmtx.perez.t-flac16. Ran OMT8 last night at Phil with all directional mics (split cards), plus the usual shotgun, hyper, super combo. Still working on that one. Keep it rolling!
Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); CA-14(c); Naiant X-R (h); Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300/Tascam PE-125/JVC M510 (cp-1, cp-2, cp-3, JVC M510 superdirectional caps)
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D; Tascam DR-5; Tascam DR-2D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Marantz PMD620 (Oade WMod); Naiant MidBox

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #346 on: October 25, 2022, 10:39:57 AM »
Thanks guys! And thanks for the links. Feels good to know other tapers are using these techniques and making outstanding recordings with them.  In part as confirmation that I'm not totally crazy following this oddball path.  Its been my primary way of giving back to the community, as I rarely get around to getting my recordings out unless the artist requests it and I make the time to do it - certainly my weak point.  But I'm looking forward to my next life chapter when I can really immerse myself in working on the back catalog.  Good stuff in there.  What a long strange trip!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #347 on: October 26, 2022, 11:54:30 AM »
Phil from Sunday: https://archive.org/details/paf2022-10-23.omt8-audmtx.perez.t-flac16

Source: OMT8 AUD MTX (24/44.1)
Channels 1|2: Studio Projects C4 (hyper), split 2' @ 45 degrees -> Naiant MidBox -> Tascam DR-680MKII
Channel  3|4: Tascam PE-125 w/ JVC M510 Superdirectional caps, split 6”, PAS -> Marantz PMD 661 (Oade Concert Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII
Channel  5|6: Audio Technica 853Rx (cards) A-B split 3'-> Edirol UA-5 (Oade Warm Mod)  -> Tascam DR-680MKII
Channels 7|8: Samson CO2 (supercard), X-Y PAS -> Edirol UA-5 (Oade Presence Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII  :yack:
Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); CA-14(c); Naiant X-R (h); Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300/Tascam PE-125/JVC M510 (cp-1, cp-2, cp-3, JVC M510 superdirectional caps)
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D; Tascam DR-5; Tascam DR-2D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Marantz PMD620 (Oade WMod); Naiant MidBox

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #348 on: October 31, 2022, 09:57:13 AM »
Thx! Diggin' the wide-split cards.  It's sounding sweet and as-there even on the throw-away airline headphones I'm using at the moment.  Can't judge bottom at all on these though, so that will have to wait. 
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #349 on: January 11, 2023, 12:37:47 PM »
Phish at MSG N1 from the first row of the OTS

https://www.mixcloud.com/dptapes/phish-2022-12-28-madison-square-garden/


free pic hosting

Good times!

Source: OMT8 AUD MTX (24/44.1)
Channels 1|2: Studio Projects C4 (hyper), split 2' @ 45 degrees -> Naiant MidBox -> Tascam DR-680MKII
Channels 3|4: JVC M510 w/ Superdirectional caps, split 6 inches, PAS -> Marantz PMD 661 (Oade Concert Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII
Channels 5|6: Tascam PE-125 w/ CP-3 pinpoint omni caps, A-B split 3'-> Edirol UA-5 (Oade Warm Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII
Channels 7|8: Audio Technica 3031, X-Y PAS -> Edirol UA-5 (Oade Presence Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII

Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); CA-14(c); Naiant X-R (h); Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300/Tascam PE-125/JVC M510 (cp-1, cp-2, cp-3, JVC M510 superdirectional caps)
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D; Tascam DR-5; Tascam DR-2D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Marantz PMD620 (Oade WMod); Naiant MidBox

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #350 on: January 11, 2023, 04:17:46 PM »
Right on & thumbs up!  Will try and give a listen tonight.

Help me reconcile the channel/mic list and the photo. A bit hard to make it out, but I only see 6 mics on the top bar.  I see another pair clamped underneath, but those look to have short shotgun windscreens and may belong to another taper?
Quote
Channels 3|4: JVC M510 w/ Superdirectional caps, split 6 inches, PAS -> Marantz PMD 661 (Oade Concert Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII
Channels 7|8: Audio Technica 3031, X-Y PAS -> Edirol UA-5 (Oade Presence Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII

Is that the 6" split PAS JVCs or the PAS X/Y AT3031's in the center of the top bar?  Curious about this combination if both are used in the mix.  Seems like they are quite close together and angled identically, which seems quite likely to produce comb-filtering when the signals from those two pairs are combined in the mix. Tell me more. Am I missing something?  What was your experience when putting together the mix?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 05:20:42 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #351 on: January 11, 2023, 05:20:51 PM »
^[EDIT]  Ok, I went back and reviewed our conversation a page or so back (last July) where you mention that the JVC's are shotguns, so those must be the pair clamped below the mic bar, and discuss your mixing method.  Got it.  Those shotguns look wider than 6" though.  Are you measuring from the diaphragm position? Can be tricky on a shotgun as the diaphragm is located in front of the amplifier body, but at the rear of the interference tube, behind the slots, or rather, just ahead of the rear vents which may be the last couple slots or a separate set spaced a bit behind the slots in the tube.  The vertical distance between the X/Y pair and the clamped shotguns may help reduce the combing problem, or may just shift it around in frequency.

In that post you also say-
Quote
Ideally I should be running a super or hyper in that X-Y configuration, but I would rather run those narrower patterns as the near spaced pair directly at the stacks. They just soak up direct signal in that configuration. I think the cards would pick up way too much from the sides spread out wide like that.
 
First part of this rings true to me.  I find I'm gravitating toward pointing the ~2' spaced supercards (which are currently at +/-45 degrees ) more toward the stacks when recording from farther away than I'd like or in a reverberant room, because like you say they just soak up direct signal in that configuration and almost provide a zoom-in effect, but want to increase spacing of that pair when I do so to compensate for the narrowed angle.  Moving from OMT4 to OMT6 with that directional pair between the wide omnis and center coincident pair takes some pressure off the coincident pair providing most of the clarity and presence, so somewhat wider pattern Mid or X/Y pattern and angle can work.

Second part doesn't ring with me.  Picking up more from the sides is all about pattern and the angle between the mics.  Spacing the same cardioids wider won't pickup more from the sides, but angling them wider will.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #352 on: January 11, 2023, 05:39:00 PM »
Right on & thumbs up!  Will try and give a listen tonight.

Help me reconcile the channel/mic list and the photo. A bit hard to make it out, but I only see 6 mics on the top bar.  I see another pair clamped underneath, but those look to have short shotgun windscreens and may belong to another taper?
Quote
Channels 3|4: JVC M510 w/ Superdirectional caps, split 6 inches, PAS -> Marantz PMD 661 (Oade Concert Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII
Channels 7|8: Audio Technica 3031, X-Y PAS -> Edirol UA-5 (Oade Presence Mod) -> Tascam DR-680MKII

Is that the 6" split PAS JVCs or the PAS X/Y AT3031's in the center of the top bar?  Curious about this combination if both are used in the mix.  Seems like they are quite close together and angled identically, which seems quite likely to produce comb-filtering when the signals from those two pairs are combined in the mix. Tell me more. Am I missing something?  What was your experience when putting together the mix?

Hey gb! Yeah its a rough pic. On the top bar are the CP-3 omnis, split wide, the Studio Projects hypers are next at 45 degrees and the AT 3031 cards XY are in the center. The JVC M510 short shotguns are clamped below the rest of the array (and yes they are mine). I always clamp the shotguns separately since there isn't enough space on the bar. I would've like another foot for the split, but 4' gets a little too obtrusive indoors. Not sure if there was comb filtering in the end result though. I did use all the channels.
Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); CA-14(c); Naiant X-R (h); Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300/Tascam PE-125/JVC M510 (cp-1, cp-2, cp-3, JVC M510 superdirectional caps)
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D; Tascam DR-5; Tascam DR-2D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Marantz PMD620 (Oade WMod); Naiant MidBox

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #353 on: January 11, 2023, 06:11:42 PM »
Cool, thanks!

If you can, consider shifting the center X/Y pair forward of the bar by about 20cm/8".  I've been modeling what forward spacing does between a pair of omnis or directionals in simpler 3 and 4 channel arrangements, and the models suggest rather consistently that 20cm or a bit more is about right in most cases.  More on that here when I get a chance.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #354 on: January 11, 2023, 07:12:19 PM »
Thank gb. Yeah those guns probably are a little wider than that even measuring from the back of the tube. I am not good with eye measurements! I definitely try to adjust the hyper near spaced pair toward the stacks from that far back (I want to say this was 150'). Moving that XY pair up is something I definitely want to think about doing. Gotta figure out how to rig that up without going even more crazy ;D. Totally understand your points on the cards as the near spaced pair.
Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); CA-14(c); Naiant X-R (h); Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300/Tascam PE-125/JVC M510 (cp-1, cp-2, cp-3, JVC M510 superdirectional caps)
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D; Tascam DR-5; Tascam DR-2D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Marantz PMD620 (Oade WMod); Naiant MidBox

 

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