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Offline ts

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Tagging question
« on: March 31, 2022, 12:12:46 PM »
Just started tagging. About time, huh. :yack: Anyway, I'm using a program called mp3tag and not sure if my work flow is right. I've been tagging the 24 bit wav files to save time, but it appears when I review the flacs, the tags are gone.  :shrug:

Offline vanark

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2022, 12:18:21 PM »
Just started tagging. About time, huh. :yack: Anyway, I'm using a program called mp3tag and not sure if my work flow is right. I've been tagging the 24 bit wav files to save time, but it appears when I review the flacs, the tags are gone.  :shrug:

WAV's don't transfer the tags to the FLAC's. Tag the FLAC's.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2022, 12:55:47 PM »
Yes, tagging is for .flac, .mp3, .ogg, .vorbis .aiff etc

.wav's need no tagging as, unless you are burning them to a CD, you are not sharing .wavs (and the tags will not transfer to the CD, as .cdwav are audio, not data files.

I was reluctant, to say the least, to start tagging until someone described it to me this way: while sitting in my car listening to a show of mine,he pointed to the dashboard which read "gdyyyy-mm-ddtxxx"
HE goes, "if you tagged them they would read: "Grateful Dead, date, venue, etc." he sold me right then. I've been using foobar2000 tagging ever since as foobar2000 is part of my workflow now that I tag .flacs
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2022, 01:17:45 PM »
There can be tags, and markers, appended to the WAV file as metadata, but FLAC won't recognize that except noting it as extra metadata.  Even though FLAC doesn't recognize what that metadata is, it can still retain it (note the "retain foreign metadata" checkbox in TLH, which tells it to either retain or strip that data away).

Your recorder may well include this kind of metadata in the WAV (storing markers, perhaps tags and other info) and your DAW may or may not recognize that. 

BWAV or broadcast wav format is a standardized format for metadata appended to a WAV file.
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Offline ts

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2022, 01:23:22 PM »
Just started tagging. About time, huh. :yack: Anyway, I'm using a program called mp3tag and not sure if my work flow is right. I've been tagging the 24 bit wav files to save time, but it appears when I review the flacs, the tags are gone.  :shrug:

WAV's don't transfer the tags to the FLAC's. Tag the FLAC's.

Ok, one more stupid question. Run the checksums after the flacs are tagged?

Offline vanark

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2022, 01:27:41 PM »
Just started tagging. About time, huh. :yack: Anyway, I'm using a program called mp3tag and not sure if my work flow is right. I've been tagging the 24 bit wav files to save time, but it appears when I review the flacs, the tags are gone.  :shrug:

WAV's don't transfer the tags to the FLAC's. Tag the FLAC's.

Ok, one more stupid question. Run the checksums after the flacs are tagged?

If you are talking about FFP, no need to differentiate - those checksums are on the music portion only and are the same pre or post tagging. I tend to run them pretagging as they are in my workflow as part of the conversion from WAV to FLAC. But, it doesn't matter.

If you are talking about MD5, please don't run them at all. This is my opinion and I know the old schoolers will disagree, but at this point, you don't want the checksum failing just because someone changed a tag element.
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Offline roffels

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2022, 09:28:01 AM »
This is only my opinion, but if you're making an album title, it's helpful to tag the album name with [year]-[month]-[day]-[venue][city][state][country] such as 2022-04-01 The Palace Chicago IL USA. For those of us with big collections, it's much easier to check if we have a show when it's organized by date rather than [venue][city][month][day][year]. My method will help you sort shows sequentially with-in your operating system and help identify gaps in the collection with ease.

Just a pet peeve of mine, but I've taken to retagging all my downloads anyways.

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2022, 10:01:04 AM »
This is only my opinion, but if you're making an album title, it's helpful to tag the album name with [year]-[month]-[day]-[venue][city][state][country] such as 2022-04-01 The Palace Chicago IL USA. For those of us with big collections, it's much easier to check if we have a show when it's organized by date rather than [venue][city][month][day][year]. My method will help you sort shows sequentially with-in your operating system and help identify gaps in the collection with ease.

Just a pet peeve of mine, but I've taken to retagging all my downloads anyways.

I do the same! Any tags are better than none, but tags that result in nice ordered chronological lists are a mitzvah and a half.

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2022, 11:17:13 AM »
This is only my opinion, but if you're making an album title, it's helpful to tag the album name with [year]-[month]-[day]-[venue][city][state][country] such as 2022-04-01 The Palace Chicago IL USA. For those of us with big collections, it's much easier to check if we have a show when it's organized by date rather than [venue][city][month][day][year]. My method will help you sort shows sequentially with-in your operating system and help identify gaps in the collection with ease.

Just a pet peeve of mine, but I've taken to retagging all my downloads anyways.
kindms advised me to do it that way long ago. IMO< for live music, and folks with large collections, this is the preferred method.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 11:18:56 AM by rocksuitcase »
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Offline morst

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2022, 02:03:15 PM »
This is only my opinion, but if you're making an album title, it's helpful to tag the album name with [year]-[month]-[day]-[venue][city][state][country] such as 2022-04-01 The Palace Chicago IL USA. For those of us with big collections, it's much easier to check if we have a show when it's organized by date rather than [venue][city][month][day][year]. My method will help you sort shows sequentially with-in your operating system and help identify gaps in the collection with ease.

Just a pet peeve of mine, but I've taken to retagging all my downloads anyways.
Why would you want the venue name before the country?
I'd rather sort shows by city/state/country first, and THEN venue, so all San Francisco shows on the same day alphabetize together, rather than all the Capitol theaters or Orpheum theaters or fillmores together?

2022-04-01 San Francisco, California USA - Orpheum Theatre
Oh yeah I also started using the ~ tilde to add more info like "university of wisconsin" or whatever if it's on a campus or in an entertainment complex or something.
2022-04-01 Madison, Wisconsin USA - Der Rathskeller ~ University Of Wisconsin Memorial Union
« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 02:06:01 PM by morst »
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Offline vanark

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2022, 02:27:08 PM »
I think the great thing about tags is you can do what YOU need/want to them without changing the music files. I'll keep tagging them in a consistent manner, a manner that generally works for all and if not, please don't tell me and just do what YOU need to do.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at LMA(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Offline Gil

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2022, 03:27:18 PM »
There can be tags, and markers, appended to the WAV file as metadata, but FLAC won't recognize that except noting it as extra metadata.  Even though FLAC doesn't recognize what that metadata is, it can still retain it (note the "retain foreign metadata" checkbox in TLH, which tells it to either retain or strip that data away).

Your recorder may well include this kind of metadata in the WAV (storing markers, perhaps tags and other info) and your DAW may or may not recognize that. 

BWAV or broadcast wav format is a standardized format for metadata appended to a WAV file.

BWF.

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2022, 04:04:13 PM »
I only use mp3tag to get bulk crude info on board like artist name otherwise I use Foobar2000 with the Live Show Tagger.  ITs heaven for folks like us.

If you have bulk renaming to do then I highly recommend Bulk Rename Utility.  It fixed terabytes worth of mixed GD and JGB folder naming conventions for me in minutes.
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Offline roffels

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2022, 09:16:55 PM »
This is only my opinion, but if you're making an album title, it's helpful to tag the album name with [year]-[month]-[day]-[venue][city][state][country] such as 2022-04-01 The Palace Chicago IL USA. For those of us with big collections, it's much easier to check if we have a show when it's organized by date rather than [venue][city][month][day][year]. My method will help you sort shows sequentially with-in your operating system and help identify gaps in the collection with ease.

Just a pet peeve of mine, but I've taken to retagging all my downloads anyways.
Why would you want the venue name before the country?
I'd rather sort shows by city/state/country first, and THEN venue, so all San Francisco shows on the same day alphabetize together, rather than all the Capitol theaters or Orpheum theaters or fillmores together?

2022-04-01 San Francisco, California USA - Orpheum Theatre
Oh yeah I also started using the ~ tilde to add more info like "university of wisconsin" or whatever if it's on a campus or in an entertainment complex or something.
2022-04-01 Madison, Wisconsin USA - Der Rathskeller ~ University Of Wisconsin Memorial Union
Everything is sorted by year for me, so whatever follows is pretty irrelevant. But the order from most specific to more general seems fairly logical to me. But otherwise this:
I think the great thing about tags is you can do what YOU need/want to them without changing the music files. I'll keep tagging them in a consistent manner, a manner that generally works for all and if not, please don't tell me and just do what YOU need to do.

Hopefully not taken as a directive, but a springboard for the OP starting out tagging their collection. I'm pretty damn happy if any shows I download have tags at all.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 09:23:19 PM by roffels »

Offline relefunt

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Re: Tagging question
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2022, 11:42:50 PM »
Not telling anyone what to do, but if one were to decide, on their own and under no directive from anyone else, start labeling their folders with NAME YYYY-MM-DD LOCATION then the shows will sort in chronological order when their computer sorts alphabetically. This may be of interest to those who believe that musicians and bands change over time.

I personally find this convenient and helpful when I have to look through 200 shows by an artist and figure out if I already have that show. Also if I am looking for a “Kid A”-era Radiohead show, it is easy to locate the general area of shows for the year 2000 and I don’t have to make an assessment on every single folder to see if it fits my timeframe.

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