Topic: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022

[mrfender]

if you don’t care about the results, sure.

Or if you don't have the luxury to spend more money than you bring in on a hobby. Nobody should feel shamed for trying to record a concert, it says more about the person doing the criticizing than the person doing the recording.

i was replying to the ridiculous comment about the cars. But if you feel shame about your gear that’s on you, no one has said anything even close to trying to shame anyone for their choice in recording equipment.

The only time I felt inadequate was my first Mule show and seeing the higher end setups.  Then I realized I can sit back and enjoy the show as the "pros" had it covered and not worry about sound levels or drunks spoiling my recording.  I started as I never saw the smaller shows on the various trackers so I got what I could afford and learned (internal mics at the back of a hall? Is there even someone singing on the recording?  )

[aaronji]

^ I get what you are saying, and generally agree, but the idea that the quality should be linear with cost is just off-base. It never really is, I think. Is a $500,000 Lamborghini 5 times faster than a $100,000 Porsche? Is a flawless diamond proportionately more beautiful to all but the most trained eye than one that is slightly off color, with some minor inclusions? Etc.

I would note in this context that I just got back from North Sea Jazz and recorded with my most minimal set-up (OCM PMD620 with Sennheiser MKE2s on plug-in power) and I think it turned out quite good from what I have listened to thus far. I do think my more expensive gear probably would have made better recordings, but there were other factors I was taking into consideration which made the tiny rig preferable to me today...

They'll both get you to the same place though, which is my point.

Sorry. I thought your point was:

That's why I'm always of the mindset if it is within your budget, and you make a recording that you enjoy, then that's all that matters. Some people have more discretionary money to spend on a hobby, others are trying to do the best they can within a budget, neither should be judged.

As I said previously in this thread:

Buy what YOU like. Use what you buy. Simple.

Maybe for some people, it is as simple as just getting from point A to point B. Others have different priorities. If that wasn't the case, we would all be driving econo-boxes. As far as gear scorn goes, incidentally, check out the auto enthusiast boards. WAY more brutal than here. As are the watch collector or photography boards. Even the flashlight guys get all worked up about it and spend thousands on modded or custom flashlights...

[lsd2525]

Where's Furburger when you need him?

[opsopcopolis]

Well, last night I was able to do an A/B comparison between the prime location and nearly the worst location using a Schoeps rig although not by choice. Yesterday was day 4 of a 5 shows in 5 nights in 4 cities run.  Day one was a stadium show.  Prime spot in a poor sounding venue but good results.  Day 2 and 3 ten hours festivals where water not easily available.  Prime spots and very nice results but dehydrated by end of each night.  Next day 6 hours in trains traveling and further dehydration.  Evening show at the Paradiso which is a historic venue but a total sweat box.  No water sold but available at the bar in small cups.  Packed crowd 20 feet from stage dfc with a cup of water.  Trying to start and run gear one handed to save every drop.  A few songs in I knew I was in trouble and tried going as long as I could.  Sound was amazing in the sweet spot.  Getting close to hitting the floor I bailed and got water.  Too crowded to get back to spot and too dehydrated I ran from back corner of venue.  Recorder rest of show from there going to bar to get water every few sounds.  Definitely not best sound but I have heard some 10/10 and A graded recordings posted that sound far worse.   All in all I got a recording so will consider it a minor success.  Will both samples when I stop to breath since on a train in 90 minutes.

Damn, good on you for making it through all that. These days I feel too old to do 2-3 hometown shows in a row…

[Dan33185]

I fail to see the difference in the two points I made. Using the car analogy...if you have an older Toyota Camry that gets you from place to place, and you enjoy it, it's reliable, and you can't afford/don't want to upgrade to a Lexus, why should you? If people are getting recordings that sound good to their ears, and are happy with what they get, they shouldn't feel the need to upgrade just because people on a message board tells them their equipment is less than anything. Me personally, I'm happy when anyone records a show I was at before I started recording them myself. I've been trying to track one down for 15+ years that a user here has the only recording, but won't share it because he feels the quality is "sub-par". Well, right now I have nothing, so I'd take someone else's less than perfect recording over that right now.


EDIT-We've gotten too far astray from the OP's request, so I'll end it with this post, sorry to derail it, good discussion though, lots of points made both ways.

^ I get what you are saying, and generally agree, but the idea that the quality should be linear with cost is just off-base. It never really is, I think. Is a $500,000 Lamborghini 5 times faster than a $100,000 Porsche? Is a flawless diamond proportionately more beautiful to all but the most trained eye than one that is slightly off color, with some minor inclusions? Etc.

I would note in this context that I just got back from North Sea Jazz and recorded with my most minimal set-up (OCM PMD620 with Sennheiser MKE2s on plug-in power) and I think it turned out quite good from what I have listened to thus far. I do think my more expensive gear probably would have made better recordings, but there were other factors I was taking into consideration which made the tiny rig preferable to me today...

They'll both get you to the same place though, which is my point.

Sorry. I thought your point was:

That's why I'm always of the mindset if it is within your budget, and you make a recording that you enjoy, then that's all that matters. Some people have more discretionary money to spend on a hobby, others are trying to do the best they can within a budget, neither should be judged.

[MakersMarc]

if you don’t care about the results, sure.

Or if you don't have the luxury to spend more money than you bring in on a hobby. Nobody should feel shamed for trying to record a concert, it says more about the person doing the criticizing than the person doing the recording.

you are correct. I apologize for demeaning anyone's set up, that's something I thought I'd sworn off. Sorry to all i offended. 

[Scooter123]

The point that got this whole mess started was the statement that better mikes (Neumanns, Schoeps, etc) do not necessarily sound better than Church or AT Mikes and if they do sound marginally better, then double the price does not equate to double the quality.  I disagreed with the first part of that statement and do in fact agree with the latter point. 

But I guess the consensus is that while better mikes sound better, the difference is marginal to some ears and budgets and significant to other ears and budgets.  If you tape a lot, Daspy's comment is spot on, as the price difference on a per show basis is probably a dollar, the way he tapes.  I bought the best pair of mikes I could afford, and then doubled down and got back up rigs. 

If you like this hobby, get the absolutely best mikes you can afford, they are a key component.  Also consider getting the same or similar rigs to those friends you have, so you can swap or borrow gear when stuff breaks. 

[daspyknows]

Exactly Scooter.  Thx again for letting me borrow a 3rd set of actives and your babynbox.  If I knew security was going to be so easy I would have brought the NBox platinum too.

[robeti]

The point that got this whole mess started was the statement that better mikes (Neumanns, Schoeps, etc) do not necessarily sound better than Church or AT Mikes and if they do sound marginally better, then double the price does not equate to double the quality.  I disagreed with the first part of that statement and do in fact agree with the latter point. 

But I guess the consensus is that while better mikes sound better, the difference is marginal to some ears and budgets and significant to other ears and budgets.  If you tape a lot, Daspy's comment is spot on, as the price difference on a per show basis is probably a dollar, the way he tapes.  I bought the best pair of mikes I could afford, and then doubled down and got back up rigs. 

If you like this hobby, get the absolutely best mikes you can afford, they are a key component.  Also consider getting the same or similar rigs to those friends you have, so you can swap or borrow gear when stuff breaks.

I agree. I have severel mics (as you can see in my sig) and these days all I use is the Schoeps rig.
Couldn't afford it for years, than I could and did. Never looked back.

I see you run MK4's too. Are these worth having next to the mk41's?

[daspyknows]

The point that got this whole mess started was the statement that better mikes (Neumanns, Schoeps, etc) do not necessarily sound better than Church or AT Mikes and if they do sound marginally better, then double the price does not equate to double the quality.  I disagreed with the first part of that statement and do in fact agree with the latter point. 

But I guess the consensus is that while better mikes sound better, the difference is marginal to some ears and budgets and significant to other ears and budgets.  If you tape a lot, Daspy's comment is spot on, as the price difference on a per show basis is probably a dollar, the way he tapes.  I bought the best pair of mikes I could afford, and then doubled down and got back up rigs. 

If you like this hobby, get the absolutely best mikes you can afford, they are a key component.  Also consider getting the same or similar rigs to those friends you have, so you can swap or borrow gear when stuff breaks.

I agree. I have severel mics (as you can see in my sig) and these days all I use is the Schoeps rig.
Couldn't afford it for years, than I could and did. Never looked back.

I see you run MK4's too. Are these worth having next to the mk41's?

I have both too.  I tend to run the 41's in arenas, stadiums and bigger festivals unless I am close to the stage.  In the 10 days I recorded on my last tripI used the MK4's 4 times and MK41's 6 times.  One of the times I ran the 4's I would have run 41's and vice versa but since both were GA the exact location wasn't known in advance.  I'd like a pair of subcardiods or omnis but doubt they would get used too often so I haven't pulled the trigger.

[robeti]

Thanks! So close to stage you'd use mk4?

[daspyknows]

Thanks! So close to stage you'd use mk4?

Yes but by close I am talking 50 feet in a festival or stadium.  Not in the first few rows.  That is too close IMHO.  If I am more than halfway back to the SBD I am running 41s.

[MakersMarc]

The point that got this whole mess started was the statement that better mikes (Neumanns, Schoeps, etc) do not necessarily sound better than Church or AT Mikes and if they do sound marginally better, then double the price does not equate to double the quality.  I disagreed with the first part of that statement and do in fact agree with the latter point. 

But I guess the consensus is that while better mikes sound better, the difference is marginal to some ears and budgets and significant to other ears and budgets.  If you tape a lot, Daspy's comment is spot on, as the price difference on a per show basis is probably a dollar, the way he tapes.  I bought the best pair of mikes I could afford, and then doubled down and got back up rigs. 

If you like this hobby, get the absolutely best mikes you can afford, they are a key component.  Also consider getting the same or similar rigs to those friends you have, so you can swap or borrow gear when stuff breaks.

well said Scooter!

[robeti]

Thanks! So close to stage you'd use mk4?

Yes but by close I am talking 50 feet in a festival or stadium.  Not in the first few rows.  That is too close IMHO.  If I am more than halfway back to the SBD I am running 41s.

Very helpful advice! Thanks!

[robeti]

Bought mk4s! Do you guys stealth AB or use some sort of bar to configure the mic xy? Does it really make a difference?