Topic: newbie with slighty unique question about start up

[bassdown]

Hey... sorry if this is post is in the wrong place.

My name's Kevin O'Brien, I play bass for a band called Cerulean City... an instrumental trio (guitar/bass/drums).  We're interested in recording ourselves in order to document all of our performances.  We are purchasing the newest model Sony mini-dat recorder, and have about $800 to spend on the remaining necessary gear.  We are looking to get the most consistent (on average) quality, without anybody monitoring the gear.... meaning, we're all going to be playing, and unable to adjust levels (full band), etc. after we start the set together... we don't tour with a soundman, roadie, or anyone else that could help with this.

So.... are we better off buying the best mics/cables for our money, and going directly to DAT... or should we spend less on mics/cables, and also get some sort of compressor &/or preamp?  Also, what do you feel the most versatile mics &/or other gear would be for what we are trying to achieve?  Should we get mics that require phantom power, or not... what are the pros & cons for this, in terms of quality and/or convenience?

Thanks everyone... and sorry for knowing so little about this stuff... we're just trying to get going with this as soon as possible.

Take it easy,
Kevin   

[Evil Taper]

check out recordings made with different mics and see what you like.  most mics have a unique sound to them so that's what is going to make the biggest different to you.  you'll probably get a lot of recommendations for using some higher end cardiods plugged into a mixer supplying phantom power with good pres built in.  since you don't have to worry about powering a mixer or having permission to bring in as much stuff as you'd like you're gonna be much better off using a nice portable mixer that runs off a plug.  nice mixers like yamaha or mackie have high quality preamps built into the mic line inputs and should also have a selectable 48v phantom option for each mic channel as well.  if you're feeling ambitious you can also run a feed from the club board into your portable mixer and make a mic/board matrix recording but that can require some sensitive level adjustments on the club board to make an even recording through your final output. 

the high end portable dat is not really the most important part of the setup either so you don't need to blow a ton of cash on that, just hook a laptop up with a decent soundcard and you're good to go (alot of people do like having a hard copy of their recordings though for archival purposes).  this is just my opinion and i'm sure other people will chime in with different ideas so read whatever you can about mic selection because that is arguably the most important element to the setup.

[Ed.]

if you're taping yourselves and can run open...i'd suggest getting an oade digimod UA-5 and a set of studio projects c4's and run some canare xlr cables.  all can be had for under $800 easily.

[Evil Taper]

Everyone seems to fluff the C4s but nobody seems to use them for that long.  The C4s are more of an entry level full body mic correct?  $300 for a pair brand new is tough to beat though!

[Ed.]

the c4's are good entry level mics.  most people don't use them for too long cuz they end up upgrading down the line.

[hexyjones]

Dont buy the DAT! - That format is obsolete...(and who wants to buy tape!)

The "newest Sony model" came out, what, 6 years ago?

You can buy the entire rig for the money you will waste on that Dinosaur...

You want a Nomad JB3 - record straight to harddisc > transfer > track > archive

Remember with DAT you will  be doing real time transfers - with a JB3 - you can have a 2 set show tracked and on CD in less than 1 hour.

[NJFunk]

if you're taping yourselves and can run open...i'd suggest getting an oade digimod UA-5 and a set of studio projects c4's and run some canare xlr cables.  all can be had for under $800 easily.

I agree 100% with this.  And, if you have a little extra in the budget, get the Warm Mod or Transparent Mod as well.  This is a terrific set up on a limited budget.

[hexyjones]

One thing to remember - a lot of the advice you get on this board comes from folks who put the premium of DC powered devices - which tends to limit your options.

Since you are taping your own band and have access to AC power - you have far more options.

And the C4s are nice - but there are plenty of $99 phantom powered cardioid condensers out there...unless you really think you will need that omni-cap...you may not want to have that much wrapped up in mics- 'specially if you have no "taper" watching them during the gig...

Shop around...

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Hey there,

I suggest, if you haven't already, skip the Sony DAT.  It is the best format out there for what you want, but it is expensive and is not supported by Sony anymore.  I would use a Nomad 3 HD recorder or a laptop computer.  However, that being said, the DAT is the best, as you end up with tapes of the show immediately afterwards that can be stored.  Any type of HD recorder will require you burn the data to disc, and that may not be feasible on tour.

Also, running an AUD rig takes some doing, at least some monitoring.  If anything, you want someone there to make sure no one messes with it.  I would suggest offering free tickets to any tapers that would come out and tape if you want this.  The Breakfast does this, as well as I'm sure a few others bands.

OK, for your actual taping, I would run a SBD.  It is easy and most of the time, the soundman can monitor output levels for you (take 2 seconds).  I would just run the RCA outputs (R and L) into the 1/8" analog input of the DAT or JB3.  Makes usable tapes, simple, nothing else need excpet a $2 radioshack cable.

If you want actual GOOD tapes, you'll need someone to monitor, etc.  You'll need a taper/archivist/groupie.  But the SBDs will give you a good idea of your playing.  Only problem with SBDs is they don't give an accurate rep of your sound, vocals will be extra loud, drums may be nonexistant, bass really low, etc. - the SBD is mixed for the room acoustics, not your tape.

Sucks I missed you last March at the Pour House, we could have talked about this more.

Terry

PS.  A local guitar player just about always runs a MD and Sony ECM mic onstage with him.  He gets crappy tapes he says, but he can hear what they were doing and it helps him write, etc...

[dnsacks]

since you're an instrumental trio and won't have any vocals, I'd skip the soundboard and go for setting the mics up on stage -- say around 4' up -- having the mics on the stage means you could also have the recording gear on stage and could thereby tweak levels once you're up and running. 

Once you've taped yourselves a few times, levels will be pretty well set in and you won't really need to worry 'bout 'em.

I coucur with the others' comments about getting a digimod ua5 and a pair of studio project c4 mics -- very versitle and will create an amazing recording -- with an instrumental group, an onstage recording will only be limited by the quality of your instruments' sound onstage, good examples of the potential of this type of setup can be found on www.archive.org -- look for garaj mahal and steve kimock band recordings made "onstage"

I also concur that recording to dat is likely a waste of $$$ at this point.  Either a creative nomad jb3 or a laptop (or even a desktop computer, if you feel like lugging one around) would work VERY well for your purposes out of a edirol UA5. 

[bassdown]

Woah... thanks for the help everyone, really appreciate it!!

Yeah... DAT seems like a waste of cash at this point.  I'll check out some of these other options.  The oade digimod UA-5 and a set of studio projects c4's  seems to be the most popular approach, so we'll probably start there.

Again, thanks for all of the advice.... hope to meet some of you down the line.

Kevin

[macroint]

My name's Kevin O'Brien, I play bass for a band called Cerulean City... an instrumental trio (guitar/bass/drums).  We're interested in recording ourselves in order to document all of our performances.  We are purchasing the newest model Sony mini-dat recorder, and have about $800 to spend on the remaining necessary gear.  We are looking to get the most consistent (on average) quality, without anybody monitoring the gear.... meaning, we're all going to be playing, and unable to adjust levels (full band), etc. after we start the set together... we don't tour with a soundman, roadie, or anyone else that could help with this.

You could always save the cash and befriend a taper in each city you pass through by giving up space on the guest list...I'd tape you at least once, more if you brought along Freekbase.

[bassdown]

Yeah... well, we would like to do both.  Our policy has been that tapers are welcome to the guest list (just email our manager @ marieclaire@ceruleancity.com... only problem would be if the venue freaks).  Also, we would like to get a copy of the show (at least for now), and clear anything that gets posted on Archive, etc.

I'm guessing that you noticed  that we're playing with Freekbass next week... 4/20 at the Haunt in Ithaca, NY... and 4/21 at Nectar's in Burlington, VT... should be cool.  Come check it out and record it, if you're free... just get in touch about the list. 

[macroint]

I'm guessing that you noticed  that we're playing with Freekbass next week... 4/20 at the Haunt in Ithaca, NY... and 4/21 at Nectar's in Burlington, VT... should be cool.  Come check it out and record it, if you're free... just get in touch about the list. 

Yeah, unfortunately I also noticed that you guys never seem to make it to Maryland...