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Author Topic: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)  (Read 5444 times)

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Offline pfife

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4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« on: April 19, 2005, 11:28:41 AM »
EDIT:

When I originally encountered this problem, I thought it was SBE's, so I began tracking shows in CDWav, using the 00:00:01 at the beginning and end, and then tracking out, to get rid of SBE's, but the issue is still here, and I don't hear it on other CDP, so I'm beginning to think it is the 4960.

What happens is that on SOME (not all) track breaks, the toshiba gets a little "hung up" for lack of better words.  For instance, say I'm listening to track 7.  Track 7 finishes, and the clock goes to 00:00, but the track remains at 7.  Then it flips to 8.  During this time when its at  7  00:00 (immediately after the track is finished for about 2 seconds), it will do two quick skip-like sounds.  When I play the CD in my Phillips CDR785, I don't get this issue.

CD is tracked as mentioned above, and burned DAO using the latest NERO update - 6.1xxx something.

Anyone run into anything like this with the 4960?  Thanks in advance...

**********************


Greetings o great sages... question...

does it make sense that I could hear an SBE on one CD player, and not another? 

I've tracked out at least a hundred shows in the same manner (w/ SF6.0) and never once heard an SBE upon playback, on any cd player.  Now, with the Toshiba 4960, I get little stumble sounds, and it sticks at 00:00 for a couple seconds between tracks...

So, could this be something wrong/in need of updated firmware for the Toshiba, or that the toshiba is playing the recordings correctly, and all my other cd players are incorrectly playing the discs, and not playing the SBEs?

thanks.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2005, 09:04:41 AM by pfife »
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

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Offline dnsacks

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Re: SBE's...
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2005, 11:37:18 AM »
why don't you fix the sbes on one of the recordings you've tracked in soundforge (run it through shntool, flac compress it aligning sector boundaries, etc.) burn the fixed recording to cd and see if it plays correctly on your new player.

Bottom line, sbes are not redbook-compliant and could well cause a cd player expecting a redbook-compliant cd to to display the hiccups you're experiencing. 

Further, regardless of whether this is the root of your problem, it's EASY to fix sbes and fixing 'em will give folks receiving your shows one less thing to fixate on.


Offline pfife

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Re: SBE's...
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2005, 11:39:49 AM »
Yeah, I gotta try that...  let me ask another question, cause I am dreading retracking all of my shows...

If I have them in FLAC already, tracked in the manner I've mentioned, can I decode them to .wav, and then re-flac them with the align sector boundaries box checked to fix them?  Then, re-decode them to .wav to burn them to CD?
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

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Offline dnsacks

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Re: SBE's...
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2005, 02:45:49 PM »
Yeah, I gotta try that...  let me ask another question, cause I am dreading retracking all of my shows...

If I have them in FLAC already, tracked in the manner I've mentioned, can I decode them to .wav, and then re-flac them with the align sector boundaries box checked to fix them?  Then, re-decode them to .wav to burn them to CD?


YES, that would work just fine -- only issue here is being SURE the tracks are in the proper order in the flac frontend box before processing.  Great trick I was taught to do this is to select the last file in the list first.  If the files are not in the proper order, then the sbe-related material will be moved to the next file in the list, which would not be the next track in the show, which would likely be audible.


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Re: SBE's...
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2005, 02:48:40 PM »
I was just reading about that as you posted!  +t  sounds doable.

This actually tells me the other thing I was wondering - where the SBE-correction data comes from!

thanks

Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2005, 09:08:04 AM »
bump for edit.

thanks in advance guys
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2005, 09:12:04 AM »
sounds like you are having a similar issue that I have with the Samsung HD841(I believe the Toshiba is a rebadged Samsung, or vice versa)...I get this when I fast forward from track to track...it starts playing sound a second into the song...doesnt happen when I play the disc straight through though...it is a result of a buffer issue....not enough buffer capability built into the unit as I understand it...mildly annoying, but tolerable for me since I play most discs straight through

Offline Daryan

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2005, 09:31:53 AM »
I imagine a clock upgrade might work.
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Offline pfife

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2005, 10:00:24 AM »
sounds like you are having a similar issue that I have with the Samsung HD841(I believe the Toshiba is a rebadged Samsung, or vice versa)...I get this when I fast forward from track to track...it starts playing sound a second into the song...doesnt happen when I play the disc straight through though...it is a result of a buffer issue....not enough buffer capability built into the unit as I understand it...mildly annoying, but tolerable for me since I play most discs straight through

yeah, symptoms sound familiar, but it happens even when I don't FF - just letting it play though... I'm close to returning it...!

D, I think you're prolly right, but I'm not too sure that I want to go that route... might just return it and go with the old CDP I was using until I can afford something a bit higher end...

or exchange it for a different one.  BCost/M0k3- have you heard anything like this with yours?


Thanks for your  responses guys +t
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2005, 10:31:15 AM »
Honestly, a clock upgrade "should" be more beneficial than anything else you can do to this unit.  The capacitors in the unit are garbage, but the clock is even worse.  That said, it still sounds really good stock.  I believe you can get the new audiocom suplerclock 3 installed for ~200 clams.  My guess is you would be very happy.  I haven't done it yet as I have a feeling dvd will be obsolete shortly so I have waited.  I did put 150 bucks in new capcitors in mine though and it made a world of differece.  I have not noticed this symptom however. 
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Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline pfife

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2005, 10:36:36 AM »
Honestly, a clock upgrade "should" be more beneficial than anything else you can do to this unit.  The capacitors in the unit are garbage, but the clock is even worse.  That said, it still sounds really good stock.  I believe you can get the new audiocom suplerclock 3 installed for ~200 clams.  My guess is you would be very happy.  I haven't done it yet as I have a feeling dvd will be obsolete shortly so I have waited.  I did put 150 bucks in new capcitors in mine though and it made a world of differece.  I have not noticed this symptom however. 

I agree, but I think I'd rather determine if this one is defective or something, exchange it, and do said upgrades on one that's not defective - even if the upgrade would take care of the defect.
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2005, 10:55:51 AM »
fwiw the guy who sells the tweaks to these units on audiogon said this is not a unit level defect, it is common across all units.  I would guess that those that have not had problems with it, probably are using media which doesnt necessarily start the song right on the track mark....when it does, it buffers for half a second, and as I said this only occurs for me when I fast forward the tracks.

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2005, 11:07:47 AM »
thanks nick - if its common across all units, maybe its worth getting it tweaked.  Anyone know who can tweak this?
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline BCostigan

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2005, 04:30:52 PM »
I haven't had that problem either.  Almost everything I listen to is tracked DAO so I figure I would have noticed by now.  :)

The 4960 is no doubt riddled with quirks but the sound I'm getting with it helps me look past it's short comings.  :) 

I'm not sure what I'd do if I was facing the same problem.  Probably return it and try another.

edit:

FWIW I burn disks using Nero 6.x and use whatever I happen to buy at best buy for disks (latest spindle was  sonys)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2005, 04:32:40 PM by BCostigan »
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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2005, 04:40:14 PM »
let me take another shot at explaining the known problem...on playback, if you fast forward to another track, the machine will buffer for half a second before it starts the track...not noticeable on alot of discs, but on manufactured CDs, you will hear it when you fast forward to another track, when that track starts immediately on the new track mark, and not a second after the track mark.  playing straight through to my experience has no problems....

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2005, 05:19:26 AM »
andy, did you buy it locally or order it from the net?

i think i'd take it back personally and start again.  if you bought it locally, i'd like to know where you found it...cuz i've yet to find them.


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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2005, 07:13:57 AM »
I saw them at Hawthorne Elec. in Rochester and Birmingham

Offline pfife

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2005, 07:17:14 PM »
I ordered it from 6ave.com.
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2005, 01:32:56 AM »
I picked up a 4960 a month or so ago from Vanns for $99 w/ free shipping, However, I returned it. While it did sound good, I really think that it is a pos. I do not expect much from a budget player; just that it will play back the discs I put in it. I am burning mostly dvd-a now and the buffer issue was just too much for me to deal with (dropouts between tracks). I picked up a Pioneer 578a for $150 from CC (a little more that I wanted to spend) but it really seems to be a better machine. It has played everything I have thrown at it with no probs at all. Not sure if it sounds as good as the 4960; it is good for SACD and cd/dvd-a are going coax-out so that is not an issue. I liked the remote a bit more and the build quality seemed higher. Not sure about mods but for the time being (who knows what formats are coming) it has been an ideal solution.   
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Offline pfife

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Re: 4960 Flakiness (was:SBE's...)
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2005, 09:53:55 PM »
wow... there sure is a lot of flakiness with these units...

Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

 

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