Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Compression in SF or CEP  (Read 4813 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline blu666z

  • (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3277
  • AT ES943(H/C/O caps) » JKLab PP9 Pre » wmod UA-5
Compression in SF or CEP
« on: November 08, 2003, 12:34:33 PM »
I am converting a Nickel Creek show for a buddy.  This was a radio show with about 100 people.  The levels for the band are super quiet but the crowd is very loud.  Not sure exactly how to do some compression in SF to make this easier to listen to.  Eveything I have tried clips the crowd.

-Kevin

Offline Sean Gallemore

  • (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8316
Re:Compression in SF or CEP
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2003, 10:59:20 PM »
unfortunately the crowd uses the same frequencies as the band :D

Offline Brian Skalinder

  • Complaint Dept.
  • (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 18868
  • Gender: Male
Re:Compression in SF or CEP
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2003, 01:16:35 AM »
Doesn't sound to me like the issue is frequency related, but levels of the music relative to levels of the crowd.  This is strictly an amplitude - not frequency - issue.  At least as I understand it.

Not sure how to do it in SF, but in CEP compression lives in the main menu Amplitude > Dynamic Processing.  Play around with different settings.  I apply compression either to each individual audience peak between songs, or just across the entire recording in one fell swoop.

The compression I've applied to NC shows in the past has been to each individual audience peak.  Takes a bit more time and effort, but I prefer the results.  I usually compress the audience at a high ratio, something like 10:1 at X dB, where X is some level quieter than the music.  But sometimes a high ratio will squish the applause to the point it sounds like horseshit.  S sometimes I set the dB level lower and use a lower ratio - this won't compress the applause as far, generally, but it sounds softer on the ears.  Either way, I'm not especially concerned with the dynamic range of the applause.  :)  And I try to use a value for X that I can apply to *all* audience peaks, instead of compressing different peaks at different levels.  Just makes the listening experience smoother, IMO.  I always make sure there's no music playing where I'm applying the compression, though, or if the music *is* playing, it's below X, my compression threshold.

Dunno if that makes sense, but...play around with the compression ratio and the dB threshold and you'll get the hang of it.  FWIW, if I end up compressing a show (pretty rare), I usually compress and then apply gain to the whole recording instead of doing it in 1 step.  CEP and likely SF will let you do both in the same step but for some reason I don't.

So, for example, if my applause peaks around -2dB and my music around -10dB, I would:

[1]  apply compression across the whole show, say 10:1 at -10dB.  This would bring the crowd levels down close to -10dB but would not actually compress the music at all.  Then I'd amplify the whole thing and the crowd wouldn't be as loud relative to the music.

or

[2]  apply compression to each individual audience peak.  If the crowd is attentive and doesn't bust out into loud applause while the music is still playing, I'd set the ratio to 10:1 or so, but set my threshold at -16 dB.  And again, finally amplifying the whole thing.  This would reduce the applause so they're actually *quieter* than the music, but takes more effort and can't always be done smoothly.

My personal philosophy is if I can't apply the compression smoothly so it isn't grossly noticable to the listener - no drastic drops or noticable fluctuations in levels that sound unnatural - I won't bother, I'll just leave it alone.  Of course, best option is always to have the levels peaking well during the recording so it doesn't require tweaking afterwards.

Play around with the settings a lot, and remember - far more recordings have been screwed up by poor editing than fixed.  So take your time and listen critically each time you make a change.

Oh!  And don't forget to keep a backup of the unedited master!  :)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2004, 11:12:10 AM by Brian Skalinder »
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline Sean Gallemore

  • (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8316
Re:Compression in SF or CEP
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2003, 02:03:55 AM »
ok, i didn't read it correctly

and I didn't even know this was possible! I'm glad I made the stupid comment because you just opened my eyes, skalinder.

I understand making the threshold setting and what that accomplishes, but I don't quite get the ratio setting.  I'll play around with it a bit, but this is awesome.  It'll give me incentive to transfer my NC as well.  I really had to crank the levels for the acoustic encore and the crowd is just unbearablly loud

Offline Sean Gallemore

  • (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8316
Re:Compression in SF or CEP
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2003, 02:09:51 AM »
also, how is amplifying the wav with gain from the Dyanmics window different than normalizing the wav?

Offline Brian Skalinder

  • Complaint Dept.
  • (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 18868
  • Gender: Male
Re:Compression in SF or CEP
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2003, 08:53:50 AM »
also, how is amplifying the wav with gain from the Dyanmics window different than normalizing the wav?

Normalizing will basically raise the levels overall but not change the dynamics, or the relative difference between quiet parts and loud parts.  There's an article at Audio Courses that explains compression far better than I can.
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline Sean Gallemore

  • (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8316
Re:Compression in SF or CEP
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2003, 04:09:35 PM »
thanx :)

Offline Sean Gallemore

  • (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8316
Re:Compression in SF or CEP
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2003, 04:12:45 PM »
i dunno, it still seems to me that applying gain is like normalizing, but it increases the dyanmics instead of just increasing the levels

still confused
« Last Edit: November 10, 2003, 06:15:16 AM by Schwilly »

Offline mattmiller

  • (20)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1449
  • Gender: Male
Re: Compression in SF or CEP
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2009, 02:39:27 PM »
Sorry to pull this topic out of the distant past, but I was looking for information regarding compression specifically using Cool Edit Pro and this caught my eye.  It seems a lot of work with compression and volume envelopes (I've used neither) is aimed at improving problems with isolated hot spots (loud clappers, etc.).  I've got what I guess is the opposite problem, and I'd like some advice on what technique to utilize to improve things (using Cool Edit Pro).  Namely, I have problems with the artists I tape talking very quietly between songs, which makes this between-song banter virtually inaudible without turning the volume up between songs.  I can't decide if it's best to try to increase the amplitude of these quieter parts to an acceptable level, or to use compression to bring everything together a little bit better and then normalize everything at the end.

Has anybody utilized either technique for this situation?
Mics: Neumann KM100 (x4), AK40 (x2), AK50 (x2)
Pre: Lunatec V3
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Tascam HD-P2 (x2), Sony PCM-M10

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.04 seconds with 31 queries.
© 2002-2021 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF