Topic: DPA 406x vs Sennheiser MKE2 vs AT899: Quality, 2 or 3 wire hookup

[poorlyconditioned]

Does anyone know how DPA 406x compares to similar offerings by Sennheiser (MKE2) and Audio Technica (AT899)?

Yeah, I know DPA are the best, but you can get Senn or AT for much cheaper, between $100-200 USD each (new, no phantom power, just bare wires or some connector).  It seems like these might be nice alternatives.

Another thing I've wondered about is why the DPA always use 2-wire connections.  As far as I can tell the Senns and AT at least have the option of 3-wire, but you have to be careful what specific model you buy on the Senns.

Oh yeah, has anyone done a comparison between DPA and AT853/933/943 omni caps?

  Richard

[shaggy]

I don't want to say what you have heard a million times already but the bottom line is: You get what you pay for!

If you want to read on about my experience:

Transient response is the biggest and most obvious difference between these lavs vs the DPA (how clean and clear the overall signal is).  The bass response is much better (maybe too good, it picks up EVERYTHING...during a serious rock show, it will really be overwhelming but not a lost cause).  The other lavs you speak of are much bigger (gotta stick them under a hat or else look funny with the caps sitting noticably clipped to your hat).  AT853 omni I have played with indoor (Showbox, Seattle) with the most horrible results...it had the nastiest bass thump during a Supergrass show I taped, with the DPAs I never had an issue with the bass thump (I always use my Sonosax with those mics, so it wasn't a mic-pre issue).  I have used the card caps with the ATs and produced nice sounding tapes.  I like the DPAs much much more tho, now I actually listen to the shows I have recorded with them!  The ATs have a characteristic sound to them, a 'tinny' sound as some people say.  The MKEs, I think are really similar to the Soundman OKMs...they are not as 'tinny', IMHO....but they lack the brightness of the ATs and DPAs.  If stealthing is your gig, DPAs are hard to beat.  My starter rig was a Core Sound Binaural > Batt box > M1, after that AT853 > Sonosax > M1, and currently I run a DPA4061 > Sonosax > modSBM > NJB3.  So I can say with reasonable confidence that the DPAs are totally worth the cost.

I cannot explain why DPA uses a two wire coax vs the three wire like the rest of those guys, maybe due to the thiness and minanturzied assembly? 

If you hang out for a bit, you can get a used pair for about $550-750 right here in the yard sale section, definitely worth it.  Be careful of those being sold on ebay for a song, they usually have been to Mars and back.

ANDY

[pfife]

I liked my pairing of the AT853Rx w/ W-Mod Ua-5 - I didn't really get bass thump problems when I taped with that rig.  But, the DPAs, IMO, are definately more transparent - and they deliver the (better) quality as the AT's w/ about 1/2 the gear.  That switch was a serious downsize of my gear.

I think I might be the only person on the earth who doesn't think the 4061 bass is overwhelming too.

[shaggy]

I think I might be the only person on the earth who doesn't think the 4061 bass is overwhelming too.

Pfife, I think I know what you mean....   If you got a nice higher end playback system, you can really recreate that concert experience right down to the feeling in your chest!

Poorlyconditioned, you should really consider what Pfife said about the downsizing of gear.  If you get the ATs, you really need to power them properly....a 48V source is proper (getting the AT853Rx or the mini xlr to XLR phantom converter AT8533, the SP batt box is not; something about the overall output not being enough for really loud stuff).  If you are handy, you can construct your own 48V like output or get Jon at JKLabs to set something up a bit more compact than, let's say, a PS2. 

Personally, I even found the CSBs to be some instances much more natural sounding than the ATs.  But you gotta get up close and have a sober crowd around you!  That can be said for the DPAs too, being omnis. 

ANDY

[jk labs]

Does anyone know how DPA 406x compares to similar offerings by Sennheiser (MKE2) and Audio Technica (AT899)?

Yeah, I know DPA are the best, but you can get Senn or AT for much cheaper, between $100-200 USD each (new, no phantom power, just bare wires or some connector).  It seems like these might be nice alternatives.

Another thing I've wondered about is why the DPA always use 2-wire connections.  As far as I can tell the Senns and AT at least have the option of 3-wire, but you have to be careful what specific model you buy on the Senns.

Oh yeah, has anyone done a comparison between DPA and AT853/933/943 omni caps?

  Richard

The best microphone is the one that is right for the application at hand   

Condencer microphones are first and foremost mechanical beasts. Mechanical differences will show up as differences in sound. To make a good microphone you must be superbly in contol of all possible parameters. The diaphragm spends it's entire lfe just a few microns away from the vented backplate. Thickness, elasticity, internal damping, amount of air, EVEN tension, flatness, true parallelism, vents, vent holes form and location, proper internal damping, carefully controlled resonances, "dead" materials etc etc all add up. 

Getting all this right in a small microphone simply is expensive. Getting it right in a bigger microphone is
an even larger challenge.

Small directional mics have an additional challenge. How do you delay the signal arriving through the rear vents with just a few 10ths of an inch of additional pathlength? It's a small wonder the AT slimline directionals work as well as they do. Comparing omnis with small directionals is not fair.     

Now wrt to wiring: the DPA and AT are very different from an electrical point of view. The DPA is more complicated internally. The two wires used by DPA bear no resemblance to ATs in two-conductor mode. It just so happens that they can be powered by almost the same circuit.

Regards
Jon.

[poorlyconditioned]

Does anyone know how DPA 406x compares to similar offerings by Sennheiser (MKE2) and Audio Technica (AT899)?

Yeah, I know DPA are the best, but you can get Senn or AT for much cheaper, between $100-200 USD each (new, no phantom power, just bare wires or some connector).  It seems like these might be nice alternatives.

Another thing I've wondered about is why the DPA always use 2-wire connections.  As far as I can tell the Senns and AT at least have the option of 3-wire, but you have to be careful what specific model you buy on the Senns.

Oh yeah, has anyone done a comparison between DPA and AT853/933/943 omni caps?

  Richard

The best microphone is the one that is right for the application at hand   

Condencer microphones are first and foremost mechanical beasts. Mechanical differences will show up as differences in sound. To make a good microphone you must be superbly in contol of all possible parameters. The diaphragm spends it's entire lfe just a few microns away from the vented backplate. Thickness, elasticity, internal damping, amount of air, EVEN tension, flatness, true parallelism, vents, vent holes form and location, proper internal damping, carefully controlled resonances, "dead" materials etc etc all add up. 

Getting all this right in a small microphone simply is expensive. Getting it right in a bigger microphone is
an even larger challenge.

Small directional mics have an additional challenge. How do you delay the signal arriving through the rear vents with just a few 10ths of an inch of additional pathlength? It's a small wonder the AT slimline directionals work as well as they do. Comparing omnis with small directionals is not fair.     

Now wrt to wiring: the DPA and AT are very different from an electrical point of view. The DPA is more complicated internally. The two wires used by DPA bear no resemblance to ATs in two-conductor mode. It just so happens that they can be powered by almost the same circuit.

Regards
Jon.

Dear JK,

So, do you know something about the internals of the DPA?  I mean, is there something more than a FET in there?

Hmm.  My guess is that it has a FET plus a small source resistor.  The small source resistor, maybe 1K to 5K or so, would serve as negative feedback to limit gain of the FET and prevent distortion at high SPL.  Anyway, it would be nice to know these things.  BTW, we obsess over this kind of stuff over at micbuilders, a Yahoo discussion group, but it is much more DIY oriented over there.

  Richard

[jk labs]

Dear JK,

So, do you know something about the internals of the DPA?  I mean, is there something more than a FET in there?

Hmm.  My guess is that it has a FET plus a small source resistor.  The small source resistor, maybe 1K to 5K or so, would serve as negative feedback to limit gain of the FET and prevent distortion at high SPL.  Anyway, it would be nice to know these things.  BTW, we obsess over this kind of stuff over at micbuilders, a Yahoo discussion group, but it is much more DIY oriented over there.

  Richard

Hi Richard,

Tell you what. Take the spec sheet for the DPA 4060 to the Yahoo group and collectively analyse if your(?) guessed circuit will provide ANY of the specs stated. If you do find discrepancies you start to see the potential for sonic improvement that can be attributed to mic interfacing.

Jon

[cfbarlow]

I have a pair of the Senn. MKE-2 and I love them.  They kick out such a loud level!  I run them line in- no pre needed.  And they are tiny, smaller than the DPA, without they cool wind screen.  They are the standard for high end Broadway style  musical theatre. Their ruggedness, sound quality, and size make them ideal for the stealthing community.  The hard part is to find the sennheiser phantom power adaptor- they need to instal it at their factory, not just an in-line adapter like the dpa's, but I use the Samson-p4- and it works just fine.  The MkE-2 is also two wire, red, blue, and a ground.   

[shaggy]

I always thought the DPA 406X was the high end brodaway/TV lapel mic!  As far the other bits, the MKE-2 and DPA are pretty close in size and in price.  It was the older MKE and the ATs I was referring to being quite a bit larger and not as easy to hide if you want to run them outside of a hat.  Someone needs to run those side by side!