Author Topic: MK21 Sub Cards NOS = F*ckin' Beautiful (Read 10029 times)

Nick Graham · « **on:** May 26, 2005, 10:57:49 AM »

Got my first chance to run the MK21s last night, and have absolutely fallen in love...

It was in a less than ideal setting for subcards - a small chatty bar with horrible acoustics. I kept thinking the whole time "what am I doing? this is a horrible setting for these caps". I was clamped to the balcony, which is actually only about 5 feet from the stage and about 10 feet up. When you clamp to the part of the rail just above the floor the mics are pretty much straight on with the PA.

Got home, threw the tape in expecting the worst...I was floored! The sound is so full, so natural, like it's engulfing you for lack of a better description. Not brittle like hypers can tend to be, and not flat sounding like a lot of straight card tapes, just phenomenal.

Yeah the PA was shitty, the crowd was a bunch of morons, etc. - but what a wonderful reproduction of said shitty PA and moronic audience. Throw these in front of a real sound system...holy shit.

jmerin · « **Reply #1 on:** May 26, 2005, 11:02:15 AM »

cool, i will be runing mine for the first time this weekend

jon

Simp-Dawg · « **Reply #2 on:** May 26, 2005, 11:15:39 AM »

hmmm...maybe i should pick up a set of those mbho wide cards...

and a figure of 8, maybe some omnis, shit they make those ld's too...

better stop now before i get myself in trouble.

plucks · « **Reply #3 on:** May 26, 2005, 11:31:30 AM »

i only have 1 mk21fob tape from the centrum in Worcester...unreal soundstage! i definitely like those from the little bit i have heard!

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #4 on:** May 26, 2005, 12:16:24 PM »

while i LOVE the mk21 sound. I dont like NOS.
no image.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #5 on:** May 26, 2005, 03:11:07 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on May 26, 2005, 12:16:24 PM

while i LOVE the mk21 sound. I dont like NOS.
no image.

That was one of the things I liked, seemed to have plenty of image/space...different ears I guess.

What were your experiences running the MK21s? Would you recommend DIN? DINa? ORTF?

I'm willing to try everything to see what sounds best.

dmonterisi · « **Reply #6 on:** May 26, 2005, 03:23:22 PM »

how many times did you run subcards NOS and it what enviroinment? i only ran it 3 times and thought the results were fabulous. the acoustic set from panic 10-5-03 is one of the best tapes i pulled in my short but illustrious taping career.

jmerin · « **Reply #7 on:** May 26, 2005, 03:50:43 PM »

Quote from: Nick Graham on May 26, 2005, 03:11:07 PM

Quote from: Nick's Picks on May 26, 2005, 12:16:24 PM
while i LOVE the mk21 sound. I dont like NOS.
no image.

That was one of the things I liked, seemed to have plenty of image/space...different ears I guess.

What were your experiences running the MK21s? Would you recommend DIN? DINa? ORTF?

I'm willing to try everything to see what sounds best.

try the nos bar,

SonicSound · « **Reply #8 on:** May 26, 2005, 03:54:36 PM »

NOS hands down IMO

jmerin · « **Reply #9 on:** May 26, 2005, 04:06:53 PM »

Quote from: sonicsoundiii on May 26, 2005, 03:54:36 PM

NOS hands down IMO

i will be running them this weekend for the first time. i will let you know how i made out. sam congrats on the tubes.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #10 on:** May 26, 2005, 04:18:25 PM »

Quote from: jmerin on May 26, 2005, 03:50:43 PM

try the nos bar,

I did...hence the response from Nick's Picks.

I'm just curious what config he felt gave better imaging, as I definitely wanna try it out after being so impressed with the MK21s in NOS.

BC · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2005, 04:44:56 PM »

one of the best MK21 tapes I have ever heard, drums sound unfuckinbelievable on this one!!!

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=1363

Mic D · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2005, 04:55:10 PM »

Quote from: BC on May 26, 2005, 04:44:56 PM

one of the best MK21 tapes I have ever heard, drums sound unfuckinbelievable on this one!!!

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=1363

QFF (quoted for fluff)

Mic D · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2005, 04:56:30 PM »

Quote from: sonicsoundiii on May 26, 2005, 03:54:36 PM

NOS hands down IMO

Depends on band, location and room. I've had good results with nos, ortf (onstage) and split.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #14 on:** May 26, 2005, 05:05:41 PM »

I've only run them once, and it was in a perfect environment. I just didn't like the way things wer laid out.
Namely WSP 4-12-05. I like the soundstange characteristics of the baffled 4060s I ran on the same stand much better. The tone and balance of the mk21 NOS source is superb. I just dont like the presentation.

I've run sub-cards on various stereo mics...all coincident, gazillions of times.
Thats the way I like it. Instead of running a wide XY w/cards, I prefer the 90deg w/subs. I dont know how the schoeps would sound this way. I've always heard that they are harsh XY. That is how I wanted to run them originaly, but I had the KWON bar at my disposal so I gave it a shot. Wish I would have just ran the full bodies and went XY, jus to see.

I'm contemplating the Peluso sub-cards XY tonight for Charlie Hunter. But I wanted to try the mics out ORTF and will probably stick w/the cards. We'll see.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #15 on:** May 26, 2005, 05:06:18 PM »

btw..
my favorate mk21 source is GD 3-25-90. But I have no idea how the mics were placed.

creekfreak · « **Reply #16 on:** May 26, 2005, 05:27:40 PM »

glad to hear you dig them.....wish the TL's had a subcard setting because while I love my mk41's, getting schoeps caps now just hurts the bank....you have the mk2's? another cap I want to try....doug oade's favorite schoeps cap if I remember some of his posts...look forward to running omni's all weekend, short of a little blumline here and there to spics things up

Craig T · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2005, 06:14:30 PM »

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=21929

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=21926 (24/96)

wboswell · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2005, 09:33:04 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on May 26, 2005, 05:05:41 PM

I've only run them once, and it was in a perfect environment. I just didn't like the way things wer laid out.
Namely WSP 4-12-05. I like the soundstange characteristics of the baffled 4060s I ran on the same stand much better. The tone and balance of the mk21 NOS source is superb. I just dont like the presentation.

I've run sub-cards on various stereo mics...all coincident, gazillions of times.
Thats the way I like it. Instead of running a wide XY w/cards, I prefer the 90deg w/subs. I dont know how the schoeps would sound this way. I've always heard that they are harsh XY. That is how I wanted to run them originaly, but I had the KWON bar at my disposal so I gave it a shot. Wish I would have just ran the full bodies and went XY, jus to see.

I'm contemplating the Peluso sub-cards XY tonight for Charlie Hunter. But I wanted to try the mics out ORTF and will probably stick w/the cards. We'll see.

seems like you would get too much bleed with the subcards run XY, esp @ 90º. I would think you would need more included angle to get appropriate separation.

We ran XY mk41's from the Tabernacle balcony for a Crowes show and I was very impressed with the results... I think they get a bad wrap, but no one ever tries them out..

SonicSound · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2005, 10:12:45 PM »

Quote from: Craig T on May 26, 2005, 06:14:30 PM

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=21929

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=21926 (24/96)

Echoes...........

Damn it was cold that night

drewloo · « **Reply #20 on:** May 26, 2005, 11:23:03 PM »

Quote from: wboswell on May 26, 2005, 09:33:04 PM

Quote from: Nick's Picks on May 26, 2005, 05:05:41 PM
I've run sub-cards on various stereo mics...all coincident, gazillions of times.
Thats the way I like it. Instead of running a wide XY w/cards, I prefer the 90deg w/subs. I dont know how the schoeps would sound this way. I've always heard that they are harsh XY. That is how I wanted to run them originaly, but I had the KWON bar at my disposal so I gave it a shot. Wish I would have just ran the full bodies and went XY, jus to see.

I'm contemplating the Peluso sub-cards XY tonight for Charlie Hunter. But I wanted to try the mics out ORTF and will probably stick w/the cards. We'll see.

seems like you would get too much bleed with the subcards run XY, esp @ 90º. I would think you would need more included angle to get appropriate separation.

We ran XY mk41's from the Tabernacle balcony for a Crowes show and I was very impressed with the results... I think they get a bad wrap, but no one ever tries them out..

Schoeps says don't run the wide-cards XY cuz you'll break 'em! OK, you won't break them but here's what they say & it's pretty much the same thing as wboswell:

"The low directivity of this microphone type prevents it from generating large enough level differences for X/Y use, though M/S and near-coincident spacings are often successful." You're gonna trust your ears over Dr. Schoeps' ears? That's just nuts, man.

Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan · « **Reply #21 on:** May 28, 2005, 08:14:08 PM »

Quote from: drewLoo on May 26, 2005, 11:23:03 PM

Quote from: wboswell on May 26, 2005, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: Nick's Picks on May 26, 2005, 05:05:41 PM
I've run sub-cards on various stereo mics...all coincident, gazillions of times.
Thats the way I like it. Instead of running a wide XY w/cards, I prefer the 90deg w/subs. I dont know how the schoeps would sound this way. I've always heard that they are harsh XY. That is how I wanted to run them originaly, but I had the KWON bar at my disposal so I gave it a shot. Wish I would have just ran the full bodies and went XY, jus to see.

I'm contemplating the Peluso sub-cards XY tonight for Charlie Hunter. But I wanted to try the mics out ORTF and will probably stick w/the cards. We'll see.

seems like you would get too much bleed with the subcards run XY, esp @ 90º. I would think you would need more included angle to get appropriate separation.

We ran XY mk41's from the Tabernacle balcony for a Crowes show and I was very impressed with the results... I think they get a bad wrap, but no one ever tries them out..

Schoeps says don't run the wide-cards XY cuz you'll break 'em! OK, you won't break them but here's what they say & it's pretty much the same thing as wboswell:

"The low directivity of this microphone type prevents it from generating large enough level differences for X/Y use, though M/S and near-coincident spacings are often successful." You're gonna trust your ears over Dr. Schoeps' ears? That's just nuts, man.

"We ran XY mk41's from the Tabernacle balcony for a Crowes show"

mk41's or mk21's?

Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2005, 10:33:54 AM »

Quote from: BC on May 26, 2005, 04:44:56 PM

one of the best MK21 tapes I have ever heard, drums sound unfuckinbelievable on this one!!!

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=1363

Damn, that is nice! I've never heard the Steve Kimock Band before and I'm downloading this one for the road.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2005, 01:50:30 PM »

Here's my latest MK21 experience:

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=14654

wolffman · « **Reply #24 on:** June 01, 2005, 01:53:55 PM »

my 21's arrive tomorrow. I'll be happy to do some "Experimentation" with some shows. I have an ortf and nos bar. I'm thinking I'll do an fob show with one set ortf and the other set nos to see. I'll do the same when I get on stage also...

i'll post what I find...

wolff

wboswell · « **Reply #25 on:** June 02, 2005, 11:30:25 AM »

I've got a ums20 bar that I'm going to experiment with another configuration for the wide cards: 17cm/130*. I'm thinking this will give a very open sounding recording similar to an omni, but will image much better for far field use. I'll report back results when available.

bkirby · « **Reply #26 on:** June 02, 2005, 01:45:16 PM »

So, is this the "Kwon" bar Robert was referring to and is going to call the "boss"?

wboswell · « **Reply #27 on:** June 02, 2005, 02:46:23 PM »

Quote from: bkirby on June 02, 2005, 01:45:16 PM

So, is this the "Kwon" bar Robert was referring to and is going to call the "boss"?

This is top secret information which cannot be discussed in open forums...

hzgone · « **Reply #28 on:** June 02, 2005, 03:05:36 PM »

Quote from: jmerin on May 26, 2005, 11:02:15 AM

cool, i will be runing mine for the first time this weekend

jon

i'm listening to jon's moe show from summercamp and it sounds awesome

jmerin · « **Reply #29 on:** June 04, 2005, 10:51:09 AM »

since running the 21s for the first time, at summer camp. i love the sound that they pull off. one of my friends even compared them to last years tapes when i ran the 4s and he said that the 21s sound nicer. i will probably be running them at red rocks as well as moe. down

jon

Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan · « **Reply #30 on:** June 04, 2005, 11:46:49 AM »

Quote from: jmerin on June 04, 2005, 10:51:09 AM

since running the 21s for the first time, at summer camp. i love the sound that they pull off. one of my friends even compared them to last years tapes when i ran the 4s and he said that the 21s sound nicer. i will probably be running them at red rocks as well as moe. down

jon

Does anyone know of any mk4 vs mk21 comp tapes? I'd like to hear a dirrect comp if possible.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #31 on:** June 04, 2005, 11:52:28 AM »

you better run the 21's at moedown jon

Tim · « **Reply #32 on:** June 04, 2005, 11:55:41 AM »

Quote from: Simp-Dawg on May 26, 2005, 11:15:39 AM

hmmm...maybe i should pick up a set of those mbho wide cards...

and a figure of 8, maybe some omnis, shit they make those ld's too... better stop now before i get myself in trouble.

I've been telling you for weeks to get your hands on those mbho subcards

Tim · « **Reply #33 on:** June 04, 2005, 11:56:27 AM »

Quote from: dmonterisi on May 26, 2005, 03:23:22 PM

how many times did you run subcards NOS and it what enviroinment? i only ran it 3 times and thought the results were fabulous. the acoustic set from panic 10-5-03 is one of the best tapes i pulled in my short but illustrious taping career.

all of my best tapes were made with the subcards nos with the u89s

wolffman · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:07:35 AM »

Hip Hip to that subect title!

latest mk21/NOS recorkding:

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=16128

love these mics!

I'm gonna try NOS one set and ORTF the other set next show...

wolff

Tim · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:21:53 AM »

just grabbed that last night wolfie

get in touch if you're coming up for Trey

wolffman · « **Reply #36 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:46:59 AM »

i think I'm still passing up on Trey.

I'm gonna check out STS9 up here in Vail the night before, mondays are usually big work days...
$:-\$
wolff

Tim · « **Reply #37 on:** July 13, 2005, 11:00:42 AM »

well if you change your mind let me know...

ford prefect · « **Reply #38 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:14:39 PM »

Soulive: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=27183&from=pickList

Schoeps mk21h > kc-5 > cmc6 > VMS52UB > AD2K+ > DAT

Mics were on-stage, stand, 3.5' nealside at the b3 lip, ortf.

Nice...

Microphone Capsule MK 21H - "This microphone type is an outgrowth of our field experience with the MK 21. It embodies suggestions made by various pop musicians who wished certain instruments (such as percussion, acoustic guitar and vocals) to be reproduced with a touch of additional brightness, while maintaining the essential uniformity of response to sound originating anywhere in the microphone's front hemisphere.

The frequency response of the MK 21H/ CCM 21H rises at high frequencies, reaching +4 dB at 7 kHz. Unlike most other condenser microphones, it does not then roll off, but “stays up” even at very high frequencies.

As with our MK 21 or CCM 21, the frequency response of this model is exceptionally independent of the direction of sound incidence."

More MK21h's: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=3360 (stage-lip, split 6')

More MK21h's: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=4893 (onstage, split 10')

EScott · « **Reply #39 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:43:53 PM »

Quote from: Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan on June 04, 2005, 11:46:49 AM

Quote from: jmerin on June 04, 2005, 10:51:09 AM
since running the 21s for the first time, at summer camp. i love the sound that they pull off. one of my friends even compared them to last years tapes when i ran the 4s and he said that the 21s sound nicer. i will probably be running them at red rocks as well as moe. down

jon

Does anyone know of any mk4 vs mk21 comp tapes? I'd like to hear a dirrect comp if possible.

I know @ Telluride Panic in 03 Nate was on top of the stand with the 4's>V3 and I was below his mics with the 21's>V3. The only problem is the 4's were run ORTF and 21's NOS. And the fact that Nate managed to not pull a compete tape