Topic: loud concerts and a cheap mic

[petur]

JEFan, are these the cardoids you're talking about? (sorry for the huge url)

http://cgi.ebay.ca/STEREO-CARDIOID-MICROPHONE-4-MINIDISC-DAT-MP3-EDIROL_W0QQitemZ5861925266QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3281QQcmdZViewItem

[Microbe]

Yep,

those are the ones I'm currently using.  So far no problems with SPLs.  I'm trying them at an outdoor show this week, not sure how close I'll get to the stage and PA.  I'll let you know how that works out if you want.

[petur]

The other sample you gave me already gave me some trust in the cardoids,
I guess I'll have to take the jump and order them.

It's hard to compare concerts and sound levels...

thanks for helping,
Peter

[Microbe]

Petur,

Because I don't know the levels you are dealing with, is it possible someone at the show can measure the DB's at the show?  Even the church cardiods wont help if the SPL's are too high. Check some of the other thread related to high bass content, they may be of more help.

[petur]

Just got back from taping (part) of the performance of Therapy? with my new church-audio st-9100 + cardoids

The sound was pretty loud (could feel the bass all over my body). But no distortion!

Messed around during some songs to find good levels, chose some very safe settings.
I discovered that this setup has quite a bit of headroom level-wise.

I ran without the bass roll-off and the amount of bass is just perfect.

Sound quality is hard to judge as the show's PA sound was pretty lousy But it sounds pretty good.

I also found out I have a crackling contact between st9100 and iriver, but it looks to be oxidation on the connector (phew).

thanks all for helping, first real test will be next weekend

[whatboutbob]

'ooray! :-)

[Church-Audio]

If you have a problem with out preamp send it back and we will replace it with a new one *the connectors on the preamp should be pretty good* they are switchcraft and cost about 10x more then the standard pcb mount jack.

Just got back from taping (part) of the performance of Therapy? with my new church-audio st-9100 + cardoids

The sound was pretty loud (could feel the bass all over my body). But no distortion!

Messed around during some songs to find good levels, chose some very safe settings.
I discovered that this setup has quite a bit of headroom level-wise.

I ran without the bass roll-off and the amount of bass is just perfect.

Sound quality is hard to judge as the show's PA sound was pretty lousy But it sounds pretty good.

I also found out I have a crackling contact between st9100 and iriver, but it looks to be oxidation on the connector (phew).

thanks all for helping, first real test will be next weekend

[petur]

Nothing wrong with the gear chris, I cleaned the plugs of the cable between st9100 and iriver and all is well. Must have gotten dirty.

I'm also going to enable the bass rolloff as there is still very much bass in the recording.

Because of the lousy PA it's hard to judge the recording quality and won't post a sample of that

More results and maybe a short sample next week. Still pondering about a good way to attach the mics to my bag and have a good mic placement...

[Church-Audio]

Wear a hat and get the mics as high up as you can or get fake glasses if you do not wear any and clip them to the glasses.

Nothing wrong with the gear chris, I cleaned the plugs of the cable between st9100 and iriver and all is well. Must have gotten dirty.

I'm also going to enable the bass rolloff as there is still very much bass in the recording.

Because of the lousy PA it's hard to judge the recording quality and won't post a sample of that

More results and maybe a short sample next week. Still pondering about a good way to attach the mics to my bag and have a good mic placement...

[petur]

First results are in...

This setup is doing great. The concert had less bass than usual but still: the amount of headroom I get with this setup is amazing.

I'm still troubled with mic mounting. I don't want to stick them to my head as I'm bound to move that a lot during the concert

I attached them to my bag and first attached that to the fence in front of the stage. I had to remove them there as somebody was standing there putting his hands and arms on them So I put them on my body.

The amount of quality difference between first song and rest was amazing. It's clear to me now that you need line of sight with the source of the audio or you'll lose a lot of highs.

Anyway, +T for you and your great service Chris. I think I'll keep the omni's as they're a lot more sensitive, and I'm going to sell the low-end pre-amp some day....

note to self: change topic of this thread to 'loud concerts an not-so-cheap mic'

[petur]

second and third results

Standing 1 meter from the PA stack and one meter to the side of it was too much to ask from the mics. Somehow the beginning of the recording is ok but near the end the PA seemed to get louder - maybe I moved a bit towards it or the sound guy turned up the volume a bit.
At least I recognise the sound of overloaded mics. Good to know the limits of your gear. Was using the high-pass filter, gain know was pointing towards the blue led and iriver gain at +10dB, still with a safe margin. So obviously the preamp/iriver combo has way more headroom than the cardoids can handle.

Anyway, the recordings sound great (except for the distorted part), don't think I'll be post-processing them except for gain.

[aberg]

second and third results

Standing 1 meter from the PA stack and one meter to the side of it was too much to ask from the mics. Somehow the beginning of the recording is ok but near the end the PA seemed to get louder - maybe I moved a bit towards it or the sound guy turned up the volume a bit.
At least I recognise the sound of overloaded mics. Good to know the limits of your gear. Was using the high-pass filter, gain know was pointing towards the blue led and iriver gain at +10dB, still with a safe margin. So obviously the preamp/iriver combo has way more headroom than the cardoids can handle.

Anyway, the recordings sound great (except for the distorted part), don't think I'll be post-processing them except for gain.

You really shouldn't stand 1 metre from the PA stack... not only for your recording, but for your ears!!

[Church-Audio]

Hi any mic will distort, I think it was most likly from the mic diaphram hitting the backplate on the mic. The wind generated from the PA at that range is very intense. This is something that will not happen at 6-10 feet from the PA, there are very few mics that can be placed that close to a real concert P.A and live to tell the tail. I hope you like the mics.


Chris Church

second and third results

Standing 1 meter from the PA stack and one meter to the side of it was too much to ask from the mics. Somehow the beginning of the recording is ok but near the end the PA seemed to get louder - maybe I moved a bit towards it or the sound guy turned up the volume a bit.
At least I recognise the sound of overloaded mics. Good to know the limits of your gear. Was using the high-pass filter, gain know was pointing towards the blue led and iriver gain at +10dB, still with a safe margin. So obviously the preamp/iriver combo has way more headroom than the cardoids can handle.

Anyway, the recordings sound great (except for the distorted part), don't think I'll be post-processing them except for gain.

[petur]

Hi any mic will distort, I think it was most likly from the mic diaphram hitting the backplate on the mic. The wind generated from the PA at that range is very intense. This is something that will not happen at 6-10 feet from the PA, there are very few mics that can be placed that close to a real concert P.A and live to tell the tail. I hope you like the mics.

Yes, I understand that completely. Hitting the limit means I have now learned what not to do This was not me saying anything bad about your mics, more about me being silly. I still have to check the waveforms, I bet it's just one channel that was distorted as I had them in a 90 degrees angle pointing forward, so one mic was pointing at the PA, the other at the stage. Silly me indeed.

The other show I taped that night sounded best. I put my gear right behind the stage monitor of vocals/guitar (so on the crowd side) and I got some amazing clarity, each instrument clearly defined and the drums are particulary clear. The bass roll-off is maybe a bit too much but nothing that can't be corrected afterwards.

So yes, I'm happy with the mics and amp.

[Church-Audio]

Cool, I think you will find that the bass rolll off is not really needed, In most cases you can just take out the extra in post editing. I am glad your happy, my comments were not so much directed at you as just a general fact about condenser mics. Thanks for your purchase.

Chris Church

Hi any mic will distort, I think it was most likly from the mic diaphram hitting the backplate on the mic. The wind generated from the PA at that range is very intense. This is something that will not happen at 6-10 feet from the PA, there are very few mics that can be placed that close to a real concert P.A and live to tell the tail. I hope you like the mics.

Yes, I understand that completely. Hitting the limit means I have now learned what not to do This was not me saying anything bad about your mics, more about me being silly. I still have to check the waveforms, I bet it's just one channel that was distorted as I had them in a 90 degrees angle pointing forward, so one mic was pointing at the PA, the other at the stage. Silly me indeed.

The other show I taped that night sounded best. I put my gear right behind the stage monitor of vocals/guitar (so on the crowd side) and I got some amazing clarity, each instrument clearly defined and the drums are particulary clear. The bass roll-off is maybe a bit too much but nothing that can't be corrected afterwards.

So yes, I'm happy with the mics and amp.