Topic: 60' Split Stack Recording

[MattH]

If anyone is interested to hear what a 60' split can sound like, I tried this out the other day. This is with cards pointing straight ahead in an A-B configuration. Stands are about 20' in front of each stack and 13' high.

16 bit torrent: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=509697

24 bit torrent: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=509706

[Krispy D]

not a big DMB vfan but that is an amazing recording.  very cool.  thank you.

[Tye]

I saw this today and I'm d/l'ing right now 60' milab split  no doubt this should sound great
 how did you run cables without everyone tripping over them?

[MattH]

I ran cable behind the last row of pit seats (row 6) and crossed the two aisles at the step up.

[Tye]

I figured that was the case. Nice Job

[willndmb]

so its one mic on each stack?
or one pair at each mixed?

grabbing the 16 now
thanks

[thegreatgumbino]

so its one mic on each stack?
or one pair at each mixed?

grabbing the 16 now
thanks

One cardiod at each stack.  Sounds great IMO.

[willndmb]

thanks

checked out some reviews of bartender, everyone says its sweet

[stantheman1976]

This sounds great.  From what I've read DMB has a true stereo setup right?  I think a recording like this helps to capture that. 

[Brian Skalinder]

I assume you split the mics because DMB mixes in stereo?

Sounds like a...well, stack recording (but with a stereo twist).    Interesting / odd stereo separation to my ears.  Especially strong pan on the fiddle (L), less so on the bass (R), voice (C), guitar (L?), sax (R), different components of the drum kit (L/R), and crowd (wholly different set of sounds from each channel).  Don't know how much of the instrument separation is my assuredly unbalanced ears, or the recording.  But at any rate, I find it's missing a solid center image that gives context to the stereo panning / imaging.  Not a knock on the recording, necessarily, since I know it's challenging recording DMB - loud crowd, can only raise stands very low in the center, stereo mix leaves a single-side stack recording lower on some instruments than optimal, etc.  Anyway...just what my ears hear.

With every additional listen, I can definitely say I really like the Milab VM4s. 

[MattH]

I didn't want the usual mono sounding stack tape and DMB does run a modest stereo mix now. You don't hear any bleed from one channel to the other so it does sound like no middle summing, more like studio stereo in that sense.

Here's a look at the pit setup spots which were very symetrical.

[muj]

did your cables survive?

[datbrad]

Matt, I listened to it at home on 3 different systems, and in both cars. It sounds excactly as I expected, a clean stack tape, but from each stack. None of the missing sound stage and overly mono sound of a single stack recording. However, this is because I knew what it was as we had discussed it before you ran it and I was already set to listen for certain things. In the living room, my vintage '75 Bose 901s don't have any localized sounds like traditional speakers due to the direct/reflecting design, and the room was filled with sound, like you were at the show. Where you notice the split the most is when there is only audience noise and no music. Once the music kicks in, the split is not as noticable. It actually sounds better than I expected, particularly with the bass response. I think this is something that has needed to be tried for years, and I am glad you did. Great job !

[grayp]

i just started the download.   i can't wait to hear it.

[Brian Skalinder]

I think this is something that has needed to be tried for years, and I am glad you did. Great job !

Kudos for trying something new!

[anodyne33]

This just slowed to a crawl. 

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Good work guys.  Thanks for capturing Mr. Barnes.  Wish I'd known you were all going.  Could have thrown you on the list.   

Might be able to swing passes for these gigs.  Danny is playing with them.

Mon    Oct 1, 2007    Las Angeles, CA    Hollywood Bowl
The Dave Matthews Band
Tues    Oct 2, 2007    Las Angeles, CA    Hollywood Bowl
The Dave Matthews Band

[Ballistica]

This sounds fantastic.  The 24bit recording is really alive on my system.  I was wondering how this was cabled and I'm glad I found this post after grabbing the show on dreaming.  One further question (and this comes from a total noob): Why did you record at 2.8 and not at 5.6?  Would 5.6 have been complete overkill?

[MattH]

This sounds fantastic.  The 24bit recording is really alive on my system.  I was wondering how this was cabled and I'm glad I found this post after grabbing the show on dreaming.  One further question (and this comes from a total noob): Why did you record at 2.8 and not at 5.6?  Would 5.6 have been complete overkill?

I have recently concluded that 5.6MHz dsd is overkill for PA taping in the sense that it only captures frequencies between 100k and 200k. 2.8 captures everything from 10-100k. My mics, the Meyer PA and my Meyer playback system top out at about 22k.

I ran 70' of xlr cable on one side and 6' of xlr on the other, plus about 10' of active cables on each mic.

[anodyne33]

Hey Matt, I like it! It was definitely worth the effort.

t

[Swampy]

Wow. Its really an interesting tape. I tend to agree with Brian that it lack a strong enough center image, however, its a neat idea for a challenging taping situation. I've never seen DMB, but it seems to give a great approximation of the stereo imaging of the instruments. Good experimenting!

[anodyne33]

Hey Matt, have you used the Korg as a stand alone, and if so how do it's pres stack up?

[Todd R]

thats a fairly substantial difference in cabling length.
Did you detect any kind of signal arrival offset?

Electrons in a cable travel at a speed on the order of the speed of light, so you would never be able to hear any kind of offset.  Not motivated to do the math right now, but it would be unbelievably small.

A bigger issue might be the effect of greater resistance and especially greater capacitance in the longer cable, since both resistance and capacitance associated with the cable are related to cable length.  The greater capacitance of the longer cable might have noticeable effects on high frequency content for instance.

Cool idea with the taping, if I can remember when I'm home I'll try to download some tracks to listen to (etree blocked at work).

[joekar]

Thanks......I'm downloading it now and will give it a listen later.....T+


Peace,
jk

[Belexes]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing.  I heard someone at a Pink Floyd show at the Rosemont in '87 bought a whole row of seats just for mic separation.

[MattH]

Hey Matt, have you used the Korg as a stand alone, and if so how do it's pres stack up?

I have a Korg/V2 comp almost fininshed. I think the Korg pre's stack up quite well

[Todd R]

but I'm just an obsessed wanker, so,.....

From what I've heard of your recordings, obsessed wanking is working quite well for you. 

[Tim]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing.  I heard someone at a Pink Floyd show at the Rosemont in '87 bought a whole row of seats just for mic separation.

check out Rob Eaton's u87 split tape from Philly 4-21-84 if you haven't heard it

also, when did DMB switch to a stereo mix? That's good to hear

[willndmb]

dmb has had a "stereo" mix for a few yrs

[Nick's Picks]

there is also a km150 50' split GD recording (90?) up there someplace on archive.
just search for GD and neumann.

[OFOTD]

also, when did DMB switch to a stereo mix? That's good to hear

Not a true stereo mix.  Same mix as before but the horns are panned to one side and the fiddle/violin are panned to the other side with a little bleed.

So 98% mono with the horns/fiddle bleed.

 

[Gil]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing.  I heard someone at a Pink Floyd show at the Rosemont in '87 bought a whole row of seats just for mic separation.

check out Rob Eaton's u87 split tape from Philly 4-21-84 if you haven't heard it

I'm far from a fan of '80s Dead, but that is one sexy bitch of a tape!

[Nick's Picks]

yea, it is a gem

[scb]

also, when did DMB switch to a stereo mix? That's good to hear

Not a true stereo mix.  Same mix as before but the horns are panned to one side and the fiddle/violin are panned to the other side with a little bleed.

So 98% mono with the horns/fiddle bleed.

 

horns are panned more right, violin to the left.  keys are panned to one side at times, and drums are spread out over the right and left

[bobbygeeWOW]

Wow. Its really an interesting tape. I tend to agree with Brian that it lack a strong enough center image, however, its a neat idea for a challenging taping situation. I've never seen DMB, but it seems to give a great approximation of the stereo imaging of the instruments. Good experimenting!

With respect to the lack of center image, I noticed this in a positive way on the walk to work this morning - listening on headphones, there's no cluster-in-the-center-of-your-head effect. It was distributed all over my head in quite an interesting way
Got me wondering about how the imaging sounds on the stereo and I'm about to go find out!
Thanks fellas, +teez!

[Craig T]

I've experimented with wide splits in the past - omins, cards, and hypers.  I found that really wide splits worked quite well at spreading the music image out, especially when you were somewhat far back from the PA stacks.  What I didn't like was the crowd noise had almost ZERO center image - it was two balls of crowd coming directly out of the speakers.  This killed the image for me, as I like to submerge myself in the moment and feel like i'm in the venue.  I lose the magic when I can easily pinpoint the location of the playback speakers.  I'd rather have a narrower image of the music if I can come closer to reproducing a holographic image of the whole experience in my head - venue, crowd and all.

I didn't listen to this recording, so I'm just offering up some of my nonsense in general terms.

[joekar]

Hey MattH....Listening to the 24bit version now....sounds SWEET...Thanks man 

Peace,
jk

[Tye]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing.  I heard someone at a Pink Floyd show at the Rosemont in '87 bought a whole row of seats just for mic separation.

check out Rob Eaton's u87 split tape from Philly 4-21-84 if you haven't heard it

I'm far from a fan of '80s Dead, but that is one sexy bitch of a tape!

 You ain't frickin kidding! The Help>Slip>Frank is mind blowing with headphones on!

[tfs8271]

Back in the '80s, I remember a friend of a friend running this for a Greek Dead show....wish I had it now.

[Unitmonster]

Back in the '80s, I remember a friend of a friend running this for a Greek Dead show....wish I had it now.

I have a Phish tape from the Greek with a 30' split and it sounds amazing:
10/29/98  Greek Theater  MG300's split 30' 

Unfortunately it's marred by some diginoise so I've never transferred it from the DAT.

[Tim]

Back in the '80s, I remember a friend of a friend running this for a Greek Dead show....wish I had it now.

I have a Phish tape from the Greek with a 30' split and it sounds amazing:
10/29/98  Greek Theater  MG300's split 30' 

Unfortunately it's marred by some diginoise so I've never transferred it from the DAT.

different Greek - the Phish tape is from the Greek in LA, not Berkely