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Author Topic: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN  (Read 12204 times)

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J.T.L

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2008, 01:41:04 PM »
...so I guess Core Sound is not interested in giving us details on this mic?

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2008, 02:51:47 PM »
I got email from him directly as he seems to have bad luck posting here w/o the trolls / flamers kicking his asci all over the place.

you need the 4mic thingy..which isn't available.
or you need a 4 channel recorder w/4 preamps (R4, or higher end.  744 wont do).

comes w/software...but not sure if its everything you need to process from 4 channel A > B > stereo.

Overall, after my discussions w/him it seems this thing is just not user friendly.  maybe i'm wrong, and w/all the tools in hand to use it it might be a pleasure.   I'm hoping that once everything falls into place at CS, that he'll send me a unit w/the 4mic for review.
I'll even give you a CC# Len.
:)

as for details of the mic....
WYSIWYG, and thats all i know.

Offline live2496

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2008, 05:19:44 PM »
Here is some information posted by Paul Hodges who was one of the early recipients of the Tetramic.
http://www.ambisonic.info/tetramic/

Gordon
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Offline mkoijn

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2008, 02:36:30 PM »
Hi, My first post. I'm building an ambisonic mic, it's not finished yet, but have a look at it here

http://www.violini.de/

I think the capsules I'm using are identical to Coresounds capsules for the following reasons. On their website it shows as the main pic what is probably one of their earliest mics, you can see that the capsules are in three pieces, there is a narrow section right at the top. In other pics of their mics, the thin top secion is missing, that is, the two sections, the top and the bit with the holes, are now one piece. On the website of the supplier where I bought my capsules, it shows the capsules as being in 3 pieces, When I received my capsules however, they are in two pieces.... The manufacturer has obviously cut costs, and is now supplying two piece capsules, which coresound are also using. Too much of a cooincidence.

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2008, 04:46:14 PM »
Hi, My first post. I'm building an ambisonic mic, it's not finished yet, but have a look at it here

http://www.violini.de/

I think the capsules I'm using are identical to Coresounds capsules for the following reasons. On their website it shows as the main pic what is probably one of their earliest mics, you can see that the capsules are in three pieces, there is a narrow section right at the top. In other pics of their mics, the thin top secion is missing, that is, the two sections, the top and the bit with the holes, are now one piece. On the website of the supplier where I bought my capsules, it shows the capsules as being in 3 pieces, When I received my capsules however, they are in two pieces.... The manufacturer has obviously cut costs, and is now supplying two piece capsules, which coresound are also using. Too much of a cooincidence.

Very nice metal work.  You're not a plumber by any chance, are you, lol!

Nice to see people building gear, and even nicer to see *mechanical* contraptions, something I could never achieve.

Question: are those brass or copper fitting you're using.  I'm not sure, but you *may* have to worry if you've got two different metals involved.  I think the capsules themselves are brass I think.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2008, 05:33:22 PM »
so as I look at these "tetra" style mics, I see that the deal is its a cheap form of the soundfield array.  Even their new A format mic is basically the same..
but what is the difference between B and A format ?
also, the Soundfield MK/ST series, the diaphragm is mounted where the actual capsules would be "screwed in" if you were using pre-bought caps.  Does that difference in capsule distance matter ?

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2008, 04:34:26 AM »
+T, nice work!




Hi, My first post. I'm building an ambisonic mic, it's not finished yet, but have a look at it here

http://www.violini.de/

I think the capsules I'm using are identical to Coresounds capsules for the following reasons. On their website it shows as the main pic what is probably one of their earliest mics, you can see that the capsules are in three pieces, there is a narrow section right at the top. In other pics of their mics, the thin top secion is missing, that is, the two sections, the top and the bit with the holes, are now one piece. On the website of the supplier where I bought my capsules, it shows the capsules as being in 3 pieces, When I received my capsules however, they are in two pieces.... The manufacturer has obviously cut costs, and is now supplying two piece capsules, which coresound are also using. Too much of a cooincidence.
Unable to post or PM due to arbitrary censorship of people the mod doesn't like. Please email me using the link in my profile if you need to connect

Offline mkoijn

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2008, 07:12:12 AM »
@Illconditioned,

The construction is all brass, I hope there won't be problems :)

@jerryfreak, Thank you!


I do believe that to build an ambisonic mic for the price that Coresound sells theirs for, they would have to use fairly cheap capsules given the amount of calibration required for each individual capsule plus the calibration of the array of capsules together to get the B-format correction files. Thats a lot of work plus the hardware and electronics and they still have to make a profit too.  I think they must have put in a lot of work to sort out the calibration problems. So I don't think they are ripping anyone off, just because they possibly use cheaper capsules.

From the few recordings made with the Tetramic that are available  on the internet, it seems a very neutral kind of mic, which is exactly what i'm looking for.

Regards

Albert

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2008, 08:53:39 AM »
yes, I've also been admiring the brass work.
very nice.

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2008, 09:13:58 AM »

edit: apparently the VVMIC developer has plugins also available for windows. These are VST plugins that should work in an windows recording app that supports VST. This makes it possible to encode to b-format while recording.


As it turns out, I know the guy developing the software for Len. I went to High School with him and worked with him during HS. I spoke with him the other day. He told me he has a Mic Len sent him. We talked about getting together, so if that happens, I'll see how well it works with the Deva.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline mkoijn

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2008, 09:44:24 AM »
@Moke,

The capsules come as a two part piece, the diaphragm in the upper part, and the built in fet circuit(which is removable) in the smaller lower section. The two sections can be unscrewed. I simply unscrewed the lower halves, removed the fet circuit board, sanded the paint off, then filed 3 angles on each. My wife then held them with tweezers in turn whilst I spot soldered it all together. The fet circuits still fit where they used to and the top sections just screw staight back on as in the pics. I may replace the fets, as someone on another forum said they are quite noisy. I will experiment.

Best regards and thanks for the compliments, I will try to post a clip and more photos when it's finished.

Albert

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2008, 09:57:58 AM »
so as I look at these "tetra" style mics, I see that the deal is its a cheap form of the soundfield array.  Even their new A format mic is basically the same..
but what is the difference between B and A format ?

A-format is the raw feeds from a mic with caps in the 'tetra' form.  It is un-corrected and specific to each mic. (imagine the signals output by capsule position- ie: upper front left, lower front right, lower back left, upper back right). In most ambisonic mics (like the Soundfields) it is converted to B-format by the mic itself or its processing box before recording.  In Len's mic it is not, and the raw A-format signal is recorded.  That allows him to eliminate the processing hardware and do the conversion later digitally.  It also means you can not monitor or listen to the recording until it is decoded later.

B-format is the basic universal ambisonic format.  This is what you need to 'do something' with the recording like adjust, mix, decode to different stereo or surround formats, etc.  Ambisonic 1st order B-format signals are the mathmatical equivalent of and omni and three fig-8 mics, one pointing left, one forward, one up, all of them located in the same point.  (W,X,Y,Z)  If you were to set up some coincident figure-8's and an omni and recorded the output you would be recording 'native B-format'.

Quote
also, the Soundfield MK/ST series, the diaphragm is mounted where the actual capsules would be "screwed in" if you were using pre-bought caps.  Does that difference in capsule distance matter ?

Yes it does, and that's one of the reasons that the 'tetra' mic form (and the hassle of dealing with A-fomat) is a popular design choice for an ambisonic mic.  The 'tetra' form gets the capsules much closer to truely coincidet than you could by arranging three figure eights and an omni (it's also less expensive to use four cardioid capsules to build the mic).  Even so, It's still not close enough, so there is some high frequency correction that is usually done along with the A to B format conversion that helps compensate for the non-coincidence somewhat. 

Conceptually, this whole ambisonic thing is an extension of M/S recording.  Think of it as starting with a pair of fig-8's arranged for M/S and adding another fig-8 (pointing up) and an omni.  The rest is matrix tricks just like decoding M/S. 

In this light, consider that the design problems in adpting a 'tetra' style arangement for a ambisonic mic is similar in nature though more complex to those encountered when trying to create a figure-8 pattern by using two opposing cardioid mics and flipping the polarity on one of them.
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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2008, 10:06:25 AM »
@Moke,

The capsules come as a two part piece, the diaphragm in the upper part, and the built in fet circuit(which is removable) in the smaller lower section. The two sections can be unscrewed. I simply unscrewed the lower halves, removed the fet circuit board, sanded the paint off, then filed 3 angles on each. My wife then held them with tweezers in turn whilst I spot soldered it all together. The fet circuits still fit where they used to and the top sections just screw staight back on as in the pics. I may replace the fets, as someone on another forum said they are quite noisy. I will experiment.

Best regards and thanks for the compliments, I will try to post a clip and more photos when it's finished.

Albert

Great idea and fine work.  That's an ingenious and beautifully simple construction method, especially since everything still fit after filing the angles on the capsule bodies.  Even bigger congratulations on finding such a wife!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline mkoijn

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2008, 10:36:33 AM »
Great idea and fine work.  That's an ingenious and beautifully simple construction method, especially since everything still fit after filing the angles on the capsule bodies.  Even bigger congratulations on finding such a wife!


Yeah, she's a little treasure, she is going to recorded with it the new mic though.  :)

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Re: Core Sound TETRA Questions for LEN
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2008, 10:26:15 PM »
Hugh Pyle recorded this jazz group using a tetramic and an RME Fireface.
The recordings were converted to UHJ for stereo listening using some software that Hugh developed. I don't really know anything about the software right now.

A very nice stereo field if you want to take time to listen.

http://www.myspace.com/soulforcev

This should give some kind of idea of what kind of sound can be obtained with the tetramic.

Gordon
AEA R88MKII > SPL Crimson 3 > Tascam DA-3000

 

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