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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: dallman on October 24, 2019, 12:38:08 PM

Title: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dallman on October 24, 2019, 12:38:08 PM
Previous Thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188246.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188246.0)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: fobstl on October 29, 2019, 12:53:04 PM
Ran a friend's brand new A10 for Dylan last week. The thing really is even smaller than I thought it would be. I was right on the center aisle so didn't want to take the recorder out of my pocket to set levels, it was great to be able to start the recording and set levels with the app! Recording turned out great.

Bob Dylan 2019-10-22 Stifel Theater, St. Louis, MO
Schoeps MK41>BabyNBox>A10
https://we.tl/t-6xMpWvVSzc (https://we.tl/t-6xMpWvVSzc)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dactylus on October 29, 2019, 01:06:57 PM
Ran a friend's brand new A10 for Dylan last week. The thing really is even smaller than I thought it would be. I was right on the center aisle so didn't want to take the recorder out of my pocket to set levels, it was great to be able to start the recording and set levels with the app! Recording turned out great.

Bob Dylan 2019-10-22 Stifel Theater, St. Louis, MO
Schoeps MK41>BabyNBox>A10
https://we.tl/t-6xMpWvVSzc (https://we.tl/t-6xMpWvVSzc)

^
Thank you!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Popmarter on November 02, 2019, 06:14:37 PM
After 14 gigs with the A10 in combi with the AT853's and Naiant IPA (gain 0/+9/+18) its fair to pin down somw experience.

- If you do stealth, use this.

That's it.

Really,
- No recording unit is smaller.
- For taping: Hook it up. Put it on. Press ok for Audio in. Hit record. Set to hold. Adjust recordlevel with the app.
- The app is very stable to me (Huawei phone)
- Bit hot maybe (with the Naiant pre i can do without extra gain, but this depends on your mics)
- Battery lasts forever

Sure, you can use a ton of options/extra but for recording not that important.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on November 03, 2019, 01:00:47 AM

- If you do stealth, use this.

Okay, I'm sold.

Expect an M10 to show up in the Yard Sale soon if all goes well...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianb on November 03, 2019, 06:39:10 AM

- If you do stealth, use this.

That's it.

Really,
- No recording unit is smaller.
- For taping: Hook it up. Put it on. Press ok for Audio in. Hit record. Set to hold. Adjust recordlevel with the app.
- The app is very stable to me (Huawei phone)
- Bit hot maybe (with the Naiant pre i can do without extra gain, but this depends on your mics)
- Battery lasts forever


I'm a Sony man through and through, and have owned every portable recorder since the PCM-D1 through to the disappointing PCM-D10. But I am yet to buy the PCM-A10 because I own the Roland R-07 and I have pulled some of the best recordings I have made recently.

The Bluetooth on the R-07 is unreliable, but the safety track means I'm not checking levels at all. I just set and forget. For stealth, until 32-bit float becomes available in a portable the safety track is perfect. Also, even though the A10 is tiny it does look like a recorder, whilst the M10 and R-07 could be MP3 players.

It's just a matter of time before I buy the A10 though.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Cheesecadet on November 03, 2019, 11:20:56 PM
Are the internal batteries easily replaceable?  Has anyone opened on up yet?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on November 07, 2019, 11:25:53 AM
Quote
Agree about the app; love the fact that it's SO easy to use.  My buddy doesn't see the point why I love it since it's not that hard to pull out an M10 and look but I love the fact that I'm simply "looking at my phone."

This is actually from the previous thread, so I can't directly quote it.

To me, the greatest thing about not having to pull out the recorder to check things - even if it is easy to do - is that you don't take a chance of jostling it around and disturbing the recording.  I keep my recorder in a butt pack that rests on the front of my waist, and never have any problems with digi-glitch from the mics/recorder get jostled.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on November 07, 2019, 06:34:15 PM
This is from the last thread.

Quote from: Humbug
Out of interest, can I ask why you run XY? Do you get good results?

I also run AT831s open, and usually DIN (actually they're a little closer together than DIN, but still facing at 90° to each other).

I ran XY just as an experiment and was only about 4-5' feet away from the artist in a small cramped room. I think the recording came out well.

Attached is a sample here : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YkJ67V53NTej2Wok5XoRgP3tPkebQ3Om

The artist is Emily Wryn who played at a wine bar called The Station, in San Luis Obispo, California, a renovated mid-century gas station. Show was on September 12, 2019.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on November 07, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
**Removed any discussion of  >:D taping**


There was discussion somewhere on the board about a small battery power supply that can attach to the A10, I mocked up a photo of an idea I had when I first bought the unit, but since changed my mind and went with a case.

I have these extra 1/4"-20 thread camera screws from my photography days, the plan was to grind the head on the screw down to about 1/3 of what it is now, drill a hole in the battery holster and have it sit flush behind the 9V battery. The power supply is an old Church Audio 9V unit. I may order a second power supply (SP-SPSB-8-MKII) and try it out, however I didn't want to commit to a permanent screw sticking out of my only 9V power supply.

The battery supply on the back of the A10 pretty much doubles the thickness of the A10 body (including the mic guard) and I opted for a case.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Popmarter on November 08, 2019, 02:33:33 PM
Nice one mate!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Cheesecadet on November 09, 2019, 05:05:09 PM
Nice setup.  Any idea if the internal batteries can be accessed and changed, if necessary, for more longevity of the deck?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on November 09, 2019, 10:57:39 PM
Nice setup.  Any idea if the internal batteries can be accessed and changed, if necessary, for more longevity of the deck?

yes i tore mine down and posted battery pics and links in first thread
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Cheesecadet on November 10, 2019, 01:37:58 AM
Nice setup.  Any idea if the internal batteries can be accessed and changed, if necessary, for more longevity of the deck?

yes i tore mine down and posted battery pics and links in first thread

Thanks I look back for it.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ilduclo on November 10, 2019, 10:26:12 AM
AJ, what are the mics in your pics? Look like a nice small set, can you show them with the clips you use?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on November 10, 2019, 06:35:23 PM
i came across the pic on my desktop

https://i.imgur.com/AdirXU7.png

part number 1-756-920-32

also used in MDR-XB950BT headphones.


Nice setup.  Any idea if the internal batteries can be accessed and changed, if necessary, for more longevity of the deck?

yes i tore mine down and posted battery pics and links in first thread

Thanks I look back for it.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on November 11, 2019, 04:42:57 AM
AJ, what are the mics in your pics? Look like a nice small set, can you show them with the clips you use?

ilduclo,
The mics are a pair of AT831's I got from Church Audio that he did some mod on, I believe they are similar to what Sound Professionals sells now as the SP-CMC-2.

The clips are the standard AT8411 lav clip, I opted for these since the AT8419 lav clip is more plastic and figured it would be less durable over time. These clips have lasted me since 2008 and been through a lot.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ilduclo on November 11, 2019, 09:23:46 AM
Thanks, nice pics!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: scottE on November 18, 2019, 01:38:22 PM
Nice setup and case!

Woud be great to see a smaller batterybox on the market to use with this A10.
Any ideas why they are not using the smaller 12V battery instead of that 9V bulky battery?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on November 19, 2019, 11:00:58 AM
Ran a test on my unit last night because I wanted to see how long a pre-amp I just bought would last, figuring the A10 battery would make it until morning, which it did and still had a bar left of battery this morning. It seems when the recording hit 2hrs 04min 16sec (4.29GB) it created a new file.

I have no idea if any real audio is lost, but I was curious if my unit was malfunctioning. This is from the Sony.com helpguide online
Quote
If the file size reaches the maximum limit (4 GB for an LPCM file, and 1 GB for an MP3 file) during recording, the file will be divided due to system limitations.

The Rec remote was running, which Sony claims the battery will last 10 hours while connected, and it made it to 1 bar of life after over 9 hours of use.

Has anyone encountered this, and if so, is the recording seamless? Mine was left in a quiet room - unless some bird chirped or car drove by - the recording is difficult to tell if anything really was lost, however it looks as though it captured everything. Might have to think about stopping and starting a recording between songs at the 2 hr mark for any really long sets.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: aaronji on November 19, 2019, 11:08:55 AM
^ It's a limitation of the wav file format. Maximum file size is 4 GiB (= 4.29 GB). I'd be very surprised if the split isn't seamless (it has been on other Sony recorders)...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on November 19, 2019, 11:27:09 AM
^ It's a limitation of the wav file format. Maximum file size is 4 GiB (= 4.29 GB). I'd be very surprised if the split isn't seamless (it has been on other Sony recorders)...

Nice to meet another Aaron J, thank you for the clarification, just struck me this morning as odd. Never encountered a wav file size limit before.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on November 19, 2019, 02:06:53 PM
Yep, this happens to me all the time on the M10, and the split is seamless.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on November 28, 2019, 04:54:40 PM
Any advice on micro SD cards for the A10? I don’t need more than 32 gb. When I had m10s I ran Sandisk Ultra, but just want to make sure it’s the most stable option.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on November 28, 2019, 06:47:30 PM
Any advice on micro SD cards for the A10? I don’t need more than 32 gb. When I had m10s I ran Sandisk Ultra, but just want to make sure it’s the most stable option.

Thanks!

I've been running the A10 with a SanDisk Ultra Plus UHS-1 128GB card with no problems yet. That size card will provide just about 62 hours of 96/24 recording.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on November 29, 2019, 05:05:13 AM
Any advice on micro SD cards for the A10? I don’t need more than 32 gb. When I had m10s I ran Sandisk Ultra, but just want to make sure it’s the most stable option.

Thanks!

sandisk extreme pro 32gb is cheap and bulletproof

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.msg2305855#msg2305855

some of the larger cards like lexar stuttered on flac playback on the A10
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: TheImplodingVoice on November 30, 2019, 02:19:13 PM
Is it possible to remove the External microphones from this recorder, without causing circuitry problems?
Would be nice to have this deck with a cover in place of the microphones.
Apologies if this has already been discussed.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on November 30, 2019, 02:27:36 PM
should be possible. they are connected to the board with some reasonably large wires that could be desoldered.You can see the teardown picks in the first thread
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: in2blues on December 04, 2019, 10:44:55 AM
Just received my A10 in mail and it looks really nice, so much smaller them my Sony M10, Sony D50 or Zoom H2.
 Have a few questions.
-When using with Church CA 11 Cards and Battery box should I use Mic in or Line in? Why?
-Also wondered how these internal mics. compare to Mics. on a Zoom H2. I have needed to use the Zoom H2 internal mics. a few times when couldn't use Church mics. and the recordings have come out decent.
Hope to test this out this weekend, Thanks for any help
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 04, 2019, 06:06:09 PM
use line in ("audio in"), its pretty sensitive

internal mics arent great, arent awful. would work in a pinch at most shows without overloading
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: mixter on December 05, 2019, 11:16:48 AM
I have had my A10 for a little over 2 months. Here are a few observations...

The following paragraph contain content regarding  >:D recording. If this offends your sensibilities then avert your gaze or
simply skip.

I am currently running a set of AT853a cards (darktrain modded) MIC IN (yes mic in) into the A10. I like to stack and have
yet to brickwall with this configuration. Would a pre-amp / bb serve me better? Perhaps. But having the extra connectors and
gear and battery charging issues to contend with is a drawback for me. Security at venues where I live is getting to be more of a
pain (walk thrus + wand, walk thrus + patdown, etc...). Spare me the "Back in my day I got a  Revox into Led Zep at The Forum..."
I just don't want to contend with all that crap. This thing (the A10) is tiny and thwarts just about every walk thru and wand I have
encountered even with my mics.

Regarding the battery capacity...

01. The unit will easily record at least 4 hours at 24/48 with Bluetooth engaged.

02. I haven't run a battery "rundown" test yet because I haven't seen a point in doing so. Someone else, please feel free to do so and post their results.
      I still am curious.

03. The unit can be simply charged using a cellphone external battery charger. Simply extend the USB dongle on the A10 and plug it into the USB port
      (technically a receptacle) of the battery or USB cigarette lighter. Unlike the M10, you can access all record and playback functions while the battery
      is charging.

Regarding the battery longevity...

01. If I have to replace the unit in 3 years or so, so be it. The benefits (size, capacity, built in battery, micro sdhc support, and most importantly the
      sound quality) outweigh this IMHO.

02. I figure it will be quite sometime before this occurs. Hopefully 32bit float will find its way into the lineup by then.

I hope that this helps.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on December 05, 2019, 07:34:20 PM
Would a pre-amp / bb serve me better? Perhaps. But having the extra connectors and gear and battery charging issues to contend with is a drawback for me.

Just in case you don't know this - a 9 volt battery in a battery box will last for probably at least 50 hours.  Maybe (much?) longer.  It lasts so long, that I really don't even try to keep track.  I just periodically check the strength of the battery after several shows.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: meursault on December 09, 2019, 09:09:02 AM
Using a10 line in and m10 line in will give the same quality recording?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 09, 2019, 09:14:16 AM
provided your levels are set correctly, there should be little difference

its not the quietest front end, but for our purposes, you prob wont hear a difference
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on December 09, 2019, 09:18:17 AM
One major difference is that the M10 will capture down to 20Hz while the A10 will only capture down to 40Hz and then steeply roll off.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 09, 2019, 09:40:46 AM
i wouldnt call -4dB at 20 Hz a "steep rolloff"

(vs -1ish dB for the M10)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on December 09, 2019, 10:07:51 AM
Fair point (and thanks again for your measurements)!

The absolute threshold of hearing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_threshold_of_hearing) is frequency dependent. Measurements show that humans are most able to detect sound level differences between 2 kHz and 5 kHz (and we're talking very controlled conditions unlike a typical concert experience).

Add to that the fact that most people don't have playback systems that can reproduce the very lowest frequencies, and it's nothing to get too worked up about. However, I thought it would be useful info for those who do care about it. I also have an M10, and will be using it whenever I use my cardioids so I can get the maximum lower frequency energy captured possible.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 09, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
yes of course directional mics used in far field situations are usually not flat in response down that low anyway. obviously a rolloff of any kind will exaggerate that

i rarely roll off frequencies in post, except when i run omnis



Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: mixter on December 09, 2019, 02:01:26 PM
Would a pre-amp / bb serve me better? Perhaps. But having the extra connectors and gear and battery charging issues to contend with is a drawback for me.

Just in case you don't know this - a 9 volt battery in a battery box will last for probably at least 50 hours.  Maybe (much?) longer.  It lasts so long, that I really don't even try to keep track.  I just periodically check the strength of the battery after several shows.

Thank you. I did/do know that most bb's run for days on a single battery. Pre-amps not nearly as much.

I've had my pre-amp die in the middle of a show because it did not turn off after charging (power switch built into the output jack).

So....

If I don't need to carry a bb/pre, I won't. I have yet to brickwall with this configuration. When I do, I will add the necessary component back to my rig.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: meursault on December 10, 2019, 03:24:03 PM
Thank you for your remarks.
I was thinking of replacing my m10 and ca-9100 preamp with an a10 and ca-ugly 2 to reduce the size of my rig but from what I read I might end up with inferior recording quality. Following your replies I should skip this plan.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on December 10, 2019, 07:51:25 PM
Thank you for your remarks.
I was thinking of replacing my m10 and ca-9100 preamp with an a10 and ca-ugly 2 to reduce the size of my rig but from what I read I might end up with inferior recording quality. Following your replies I should skip this plan.

Where are you reading that? I'm not sure I've heard/seen anyone give that report.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: meursault on December 11, 2019, 02:23:45 PM
"its not the quietest front end..."
"One major difference is that the M10 will capture down to 20Hz while the A10 will only capture down to 40Hz and then steeply roll off"
I read these comments and I understood that I am losing quality. Maybe I misunderstood, english is not my mother language.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 11, 2019, 04:37:37 PM
none of the handhelds have quiet front end, theyre all about the same. Best as a rule of thumb to not rely on their gain stages if you dont have to

the A10 rolloff comment was an overstatement, read the posts after it.


Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: meursault on December 11, 2019, 05:56:49 PM
 :hmmm:
Just when I thought I saved some money...
Anyone knows if the electronics, the analog to digital converter, etc are on the same level?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 11, 2019, 06:46:02 PM
:hmmm:
Just when I thought I saved some money...
Anyone knows if the electronics, the analog to digital converter, etc are on the same level?

not sure if youd save money, A-10s are around $200. you cant buy M10s anymore of course but i beleive they were around the same cost new

whether a CA 9100 is equivalent to a CA ugly is a question for chris

i have yet to see a single complaint from a person who replaced their M10 with an A10

if you want to see if you can hear a difference there is A10 vs R07 vs tascam dr100mk3 (as well as the 16bit sony ICD-UX560) at the link below.. the tascam has way better specs than any of the handhelds. see if the difference is audible to *your* ears

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on December 11, 2019, 10:16:45 PM
:hmmm:
Just when I thought I saved some money...
Anyone knows if the electronics, the analog to digital converter, etc are on the same level?

whether a CA 9100 is equivalent to a CA ugly is a question for chris

i have yet to see a single complaint from a person who replaced their M10 with an A10

if you want to see if you can hear a difference there is A10 vs R07 vs tascam dr100mk3 (as well as the 16bit sony ICD-UX560) at the link below.. the tascam has way better specs than any of the handhelds. see if the difference is audible to *your* ears

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0

I can answer the CA question: 9200 is considerably better than the 9100 -- internal noise is much lower. The Ugly 2 is simply a 9200 in a smaller form factor. It's exactly the same as the 9200 otherwise.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on December 12, 2019, 09:10:47 PM
$190 at BH Photo and Amazon.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on December 14, 2019, 05:43:01 PM
Finally realized that what I don’t care for is the A10s roll off. Not my piece of cake, I tend to not like and am not good at serious processing.

I still haven't found a stock deck, whether handheld or XLR, that I'd want to run my $1300 caps into. App control is not worth the sonic tradeoff imo. Thank you Doug.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 14, 2019, 06:15:13 PM
its not that dramatic of a rolloff. most HPFs/rolloffs start at frequencies like 80-120 and are 6-12dB per octave

from my tests: Sony A-10: -0.2 dB@100 HZ, -1.1dB@45Hz, -2.9dB@25Hz, -4.1Hz@20Hz, -6.0dB@15Hz, -9.6dB@10Hz


-1dB at 50 Hz and -3db at 25Hz is not all that aggressive. can easily be eq'd back in
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on December 16, 2019, 08:18:24 AM
Finally realized that what I don’t care for is the A10s roll off. Not my piece of cake, I tend to not like and am not good at real processing.

Don’t see the big issue here. Most of the bass that low is “rumble” anyhow. I’m usually rolling that off in Ozone when I’m processing.

Recorded Massive Attack with the A10 and still had far too much bass in the original file. 40Hz with a roll off isn’t truly that noticeable and, for me, isn’t detrimental.

Having the ability to start and stop from my phone as well as monitor levels is a huge plus.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on December 23, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
Guess what I gave myself for Christmas?  And Santa, in the form of the Australia Post operative, arrived today unexpectedly early.

Almost everyone here has made their first comment something along the lines of "damn, it's tiny!".

Damn, it's tiny.

My recent(ish) recorder purchases include a Zoom H1N and a Zoom F1.  The A10 is clearly significantly smaller than the H1N and is probably smaller in volume than the F1 overall, being thinner and narrower, but a bit longer.  It has a noticably larger screen than either of the Zoom models.

Almost the first thing I tried were the internal mics.  I like the idea of a carry-around sound recorder, so unlike most here, the internal mics interest me.  I tested them first in front of the quite large Tannoy speakers in my 'studio', playing my usual test item, Eric Clapton's 'River of Tears'.  This has a substantial bass line, a steady cymbal beat, and a vocal, and I find it usually reveals shortcomings in audio equipment, or at least it allows for useful comparisons.  I was pleasantly surprised by the result - to my ears (elderly ears I admit), the sound is balanced - no particular vices that I could hear, with very usable range at both top and bottom and no muddy hump in the middle.  Stereo image is waaay better than the M10, whose imaging was always pretty dire as you might expect from closely spaced omni mics.  Just recording passing cars in the street with the A10 gave very satisfactory results, with a clear image of each vehicle passing from one side of the soundstage to the other.  But the supplied windshield didn't seem to be doing a great deal to mitigate the effects of a light wind.   I will have to find a suitable 'dead kitten' to replace it.

I think the innovative (in my experience) menu system works well, but when making settings it would have been useful if the current state of each option could have been displayed at the foot of the screen.  At present you have to select the option to confirm its state.

Really I am finding it difficult to criticise the device, after making allowances for its size and price point.  I guess I'm a bit disappointed that there's no way to play back what you've just recorded, using only the app.  I might well use it with Roland in-ear mic/earbud mics, but in order to check the recording I will have to fish in my pocket to get the recorder out to press "play".  It's a pity that there is no play button in the app interface (unless I can't see it!).

Apart from the A10 living in my jacket pocket, I will also use it in conjunction with cameras such as the DJI Osmo Pocket or the Insta360 One X (the latter happens to be very similar in size to the A10).  These also tend to travel constantly in my jacket.  Yes, it does tend to make me walk lopsided.  Ideally I'd like to mount the A10 to the handle of the camera poles, and that's not hard to do, but it would be ideal if I could change the angle of the A10 to match the angle the camera is shooting at.  I do have an adapter for that purpose but I think it weighs more than the recorder!  A fiddle with my collection of GoPro mounts should do the trick in due course.

Thanks to previous posters for their advice and recommendations, and thanks also for making me $250AU poorer!  And compliments of the season to all.



Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on December 25, 2019, 11:11:42 AM
So I pulled the trigger, man this fucker is tiny.

So I know I should read the thread, but if anyone can save me an hour I’d appreciate-“audio in” is live in, right.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: colargol on December 25, 2019, 11:12:44 AM
So I pulled the trigger, man this fucker is tiny.

So I know I should read the thread, but if anyone can save me an hour I’d appreciate-“audio in” is live in, right.

Thanks!

yup, "audio in" is line in :-)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on December 25, 2019, 01:47:26 PM
So I pulled the trigger, man this fucker is tiny.

So I know I should read the thread, but if anyone can save me an hour I’d appreciate-“audio in” is live in, right.

Thanks!

yup, "audio in" is line in :-)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on December 25, 2019, 03:22:14 PM
I don't imagine you'll have to use the preamp for amplified music. I haven't, at least.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on December 28, 2019, 06:21:53 AM
Apologies if this has been posted already but I think I have triggered a limitation on the A10 by copying too many files to a 64Gb memory card - the limitation is as follows -

"Your linear PCM recorder is capable of storing up to 199 files per folder and up to 5,000 folders and files on the built-in memory and the microSD card all together in total. "

Just now I heard some particularly good birdsong happening in the twighlit garden, grabbed the A10, hit record, and got a "file full" message.  And I got bitten on both hands by mosquitos, without getting the recording.  Deleting an unimportant file off the internal memory allowed me to record once back indoors.  I've copied as many mp3 audio files from my rock collection as would fit onto a 64Gb card, and I suspect that's the problem.  Moral - don't.  Stick with (say) your most favourite 4000.  Now all I have to do is decide which they are...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 28, 2019, 08:51:44 AM
ouch, sorry about your lost recording, thats good to know, though

why cant you put 4000 tracks on a micro SD card and tape another with 4000 more to the back and swap out?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on December 28, 2019, 05:05:44 PM
That's what I call lateral thinking! 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on December 29, 2019, 04:51:18 PM
I have run my new A-10 twice now.
First night on stage, with limiter, record level 6, and it kept the peaks down below zero, but flattened the tops of level peaks.


Second night I ran in back of the room without limiters, and again, only monitored with the app due to placement. This time, I ape the levels mostly out of the red (lowered them when they tagged it) but the file has lots of clipped peaks of over.


Are level indications on the app inaccurate? Was this mentioned earlier? Thanks.
 :shrug: 


Interestingly, I can pair the Sony and also use the sound devices bluetooth just by switching apps!

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on December 30, 2019, 04:52:28 PM
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on December 30, 2019, 04:59:17 PM
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!


I'd start with audio in around 10
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on December 30, 2019, 05:41:48 PM
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!


I'd start with audio in around 10

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on December 30, 2019, 08:28:56 PM
I have run my new A-10 twice now.
First night on stage, with limiter, record level 6, and it kept the peaks down below zero, but flattened the tops of level peaks.


Second night I ran in back of the room without limiters, and again, only monitored with the app due to placement. This time, I ape the levels mostly out of the red (lowered them when they tagged it) but the file has lots of clipped peaks of over.


Are level indications on the app inaccurate? Was this mentioned earlier? Thanks.
 :shrug: 


Interestingly, I can pair the Sony and also use the sound devices bluetooth just by switching apps!

On the second night, did you have your mics run through any kind of mix/pre? I ran into a problem where my preamp overloaded internally, but my levels were fine on the A10 and I wasnt aware until listening later.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on December 30, 2019, 09:07:23 PM
On the second night, did you have your mics run through any kind of mix/pre? I ran into a problem where my preamp overloaded internally, but my levels were fine on the A10 and I wasnt aware until listening later.
No, I have fancy unreliable gear from other manufacturers all patched in with my good mics as my "A" unit, so this is just my backup with internal mics.
On night three, I noticed that the machine was not rolling for the start of the second band. Either I stopped it on purpose after the first band (I don't think so) or stopped it by accident with the app, or perhaps it crashed? I vote for #2. I was all over my phone and the app has TWO ways to wreck the recording - pause or stop!?!
 :-\
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 30, 2019, 11:09:19 PM
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!


I'd start with audio in around 10

this. and remember audio in is 0-30 so 10 isnt as low as it seems
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gewwang on December 31, 2019, 08:57:25 AM
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!


I'd start with audio in around 10


this. and remember audio in is 0-30 so 10 isnt as low as it seems

for one gnr show, i ran sax @ ~ +10db into the a10 and ended the night with the a10 at like 3. The recording was fine but i was nervous until i played it back and it was fine.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on December 31, 2019, 10:31:27 AM
weve come a long way from the lowly d8 that would brickwall below 4/10!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 01, 2020, 02:45:23 PM
I don't imagine you'll have to use the preamp for amplified music. I haven't, at least.

Running a babynbox in front means I’ll need mic in. No gain from the babynbox
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on January 01, 2020, 06:52:37 PM
not necessarily.its not like there’s not gain with audio-in, it’s just in a different range
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: fobstl on January 02, 2020, 02:41:23 PM
I don't imagine you'll have to use the preamp for amplified music. I haven't, at least.

Running a babynbox in front means I’ll need mic in. No gain from the babynbox
I ran line in with MK41>BabyNBox for Dylan with good results.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on January 02, 2020, 04:53:03 PM
Is there a typical set of "settings" when using a preamp like the nBox?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on January 02, 2020, 10:32:19 PM
any line-level source should start with "audio in" around 10 as mentioned above
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on January 03, 2020, 03:38:59 AM
I ran line in with MK41>BabyNBox for Dylan with good results.
Any recollection (or screen shot) of the level setting for that? ... just for reference...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 03, 2020, 11:31:00 AM
I don't imagine you'll have to use the preamp for amplified music. I haven't, at least.

Running a babynbox in front means I’ll need mic in. No gain from the babynbox
I ran line in with MK41>BabyNBox for Dylan with good results.


that's surprising. Have to play with it. I'd way prefer going line in.

not sure how often line in will work. Just did a test with the 4v>babynbox>A10 wide open 5' from a loud ass source and I barely crack -12.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on January 03, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
My A10 just arrived yesterday, so allow me to join the "Wow, is it small!" chorus.

Planning on doing some side-by-side tests with an M10 at a show next week, will report back here on the results.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on January 04, 2020, 07:49:58 PM
i see it is now measured at avisoft, dont recall seeing it there before. i aggregated some other recorders for reference in this edited screenshot

https://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/

(https://i.imgur.com/uczYYsG.png)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: alanisrox69 on January 04, 2020, 11:17:52 PM
Has this unit been updated to prevent unauthorized Bluetooth access? I remember reading that anyone with the phone app and in Bluetooth range could load the app and control your unit. Is this still the case?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: fobstl on January 06, 2020, 09:29:27 AM
I ran line in with MK41>BabyNBox for Dylan with good results.
Any recollection (or screen shot) of the level setting for that? ... just for reference...
I started at 12 and ended up at 16. Could have definitely bumped up a few more but was being conservative for the first time out.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Chrisedge on January 09, 2020, 04:59:08 PM
Has this unit been updated to prevent unauthorized Bluetooth access? I remember reading that anyone with the phone app and in Bluetooth range could load the app and control your unit. Is this still the case?

I don't think so, since you have to put the unit into a pairing mode. If it's not in pairing mode, you aren't connecting...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rastasean on January 09, 2020, 06:05:39 PM
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!

How'd the show turn out? Can we hear the recording?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 10, 2020, 10:49:13 AM
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!

How'd the show turn out? Can we hear the recording?

tonight.

Wussed out and ran my 620. Have to wait for something less critical.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on January 11, 2020, 01:00:50 AM
Chrisedge, you are right, I was going to comment the same thing.


I have had an unusual microSD card read error on the A10 now a couple of times where it says the card needs formatting. Occasionally my desktop computer will freeze up/reset and if the A10 is connected and the card had not been unmounted, the unit will give me a "Format SD Card" screen for a few seconds. I have been able to get around the problem by just reconnecting the A10 to my mac and after the card mounts (computer doesnt have a problem reading it via a USB connection) then ejecting it as normal. Card works fine.

The type of card I am using is a Sandisk Ultra Plus 128 GB V10 MicroSDXC

Anyone else notice this?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on January 11, 2020, 02:42:21 AM
The type of card I am using is a Sandisk Ultra Plus 128 GB V10 MicroSDXC

Anyone else notice this?

try a 32GB sdhc. my a10 didnt like large cards, and sdhc outperformed sdxc in every test ive tried
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on January 11, 2020, 05:32:08 AM
The type of card I am using is a Sandisk Ultra Plus 128 GB V10 MicroSDXC

Anyone else notice this?

try a 32GB sdhc. my a10 didnt like large cards, and sdhc outperformed sdxc in every test ive tried

Good to know, thanks jerryfreak. Going to order one.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on January 11, 2020, 01:09:13 PM
sandisk extreme pro 32GB is the best ive tested, in all devices. best $15 ever

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.msg2305855#msg2305855
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on January 12, 2020, 08:44:48 AM
Used my new A10 for the first time last night, and being able to check and adjust levels via the phone app was even more of a game changer than I expected. Recording came out great, transferring it now.

I was running AT853 cards (modded) into a Church UBB, and started Audio In gain at 12, later raised to 17 during a set break as I could see I had additional headroom. This was for a loud-but-not-super-loud show (just barely not requiring earplugs, though I had them at the ready).
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on January 12, 2020, 10:38:55 AM
MIC IN or Audio IN?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on January 12, 2020, 05:22:13 PM
MIC IN or Audio IN?

Audio IN.

Is there a way to switch between MIC IN and Audio IN via the app, btw? I'm not seeing one.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on January 13, 2020, 01:28:29 AM
MIC IN or Audio IN?

Audio IN.

Is there a way to switch between MIC IN and Audio IN via the app, btw? I'm not seeing one.

No there isnt unfortunately
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on January 14, 2020, 11:10:17 AM
open box $129 on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PCM-A10-Portable-Linear-High-Resolution-Audio-Recorder/362881032450?epid=3034153977&hash=item547d652102:g:ywcAAOSwR4peHQBD


new ones with warranty are still $163 tho. might be a better deal. +$30 is not bad deal for full warranty (i try to buy my consumer electronics with the CC that adds a year, but only on 'new' purchases)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-Sony-PCM-A10-A10-Linear-PCM-Audio-Digital-Recorder-A-Series-US-SHIP-4/303290010551?epid=3034153977&hash=item469d7e4bb7:g:nzUAAOSw8UddiFt1
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on January 15, 2020, 06:08:04 PM
I ran the A10 on Sunday for Ramblin' Jack Elliott, with my new U853s (SP-CMC-2) from sound pros, modded with the low sensitivity option, and a 12v power supply, also from sound pros.

I had read this thread a couple times but I guess the mic-in/audio-in discussion hadn't really baked in yet. I ran mic in, and I'm not aware of what the negative effects would be in this case. Don't recall my levels but you'll hear audience clipping: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12dfJL6KLbaZVeFEe3wjQEOieEAHCFIK3

By default the A10 will time out, if not recording, unless you tell it not to, so that's something else to watch out for if you want to set it and forget it and you won't be recording for a little while. You can override this in settings and force it to not time out.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on January 15, 2020, 06:12:08 PM
maybe you can adjust time out in menu?

fortunately it boots up almost instantly.

my R07 can be 15+ seconds sometimes to boot up and find the sd card
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on January 15, 2020, 06:16:16 PM
maybe you can adjust time out in menu?

fortunately it boots up almost instantly.

my R07 can be 15+ seconds sometimes to boot up and find the sd card

Yes, you can, I should have clarified. Make sure you do that if you're like me and you don't want to or can't touch anything after setup.

Edit: now clarified http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192371.msg2320254#msg2320254
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on January 15, 2020, 06:19:11 PM
fwiw ive been doing some recording tests on my zoom, using the A10 pushing sennheiser cans as an audio source for some mics.

forgot about the test and came back and its still rolling 24 hrs later. battery life is phenomenal
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on January 17, 2020, 01:30:53 AM

I posted this in one of the "available for sale" threads discussing current A10 deals...

I was doing a duckduckgo search for my FCC ID, and  I found this great FCC website with exploded photos of the early unit used to seek the patent, and all manner of technical details. Thought you'd be interested... Jerryfreak suggested that I repost it here.
https://fccid.io/AK8PCMA10 (https://fccid.io/AK8PCMA10)

Check out the PDF of the "Short-Term Confidential Internal Photo"


We can probably find this for just about any unit sold in the USA?! Especially any of the ones with bluetooth or other wireless connectivity like Wifi..
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on January 19, 2020, 03:10:36 AM
fortunately it boots up almost instantly.

my R07 can be 15+ seconds sometimes to boot up and find the sd card

Mine takes maybe 30 seconds to start up.  I strongly suspect this is due to having a couple of thousand files on the SD card and it may be reindexing them each time.  If I take the card out, the same thing happens, but if I then boot up again (with it now having reindexed itself with no card) it comes on immediately.  Replace the card, boot up, and it takes a while as it rediscovers the card and its contents.  Moral - for serious use, it might be best not to have loads of files on the SD card.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on January 19, 2020, 05:21:20 PM
I was using the internal mic the other night at a very loud show and the A10 limiter was on. I adjusted the volume from 3 up to 6, and you can see the steps. Measuring the peaks of each section, I notice that they are spaced almost precisely 1.5 dB apart.
I thought that was interesting.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on January 29, 2020, 11:31:37 AM
The sound mic in is very  solid. Ran for a set the other night. A keeper.

Is there any difference between mic in and audio in, other than the gain? (And option for PIP.) I'm assuming it goes through the same electronics, since it's all one input.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: alanisrox69 on February 03, 2020, 12:37:04 AM
Taped my 3rd show with the A10, first 2 went surprisingly well.

Coming from an R09HR.

I like that I can monitor the levels live and it’s small form factor.

Show 3 had an disappointing outcome. I set the level a little aggressively as the previous shows were set at 8, and the output was just about -12dB. I will say with the R09HR I usually had the level at 62 and got maybe up to -4dB and possibly sometimes “clipped” if there was a loud clapper or something near me, but never experienced any issues with the clipped audio in post processing. I just reduced the amp/normalized and all was well in the world.

Anyway, A10, I had very very very minor clips during my 3rd show and they sound HORRIBLE, screeching noise and just terrible. Tried to reduce the amp, normalize, used Declip in Audacity. Can’t get them to sound good. This is so weird, how can such a mild clip sound so bad? I’ve never had this issue with the R09HR. Is the A10 A-D converter that bad at clipped input audio?

This is rather worrisome. Sure I can reduce the record level on the fly with my phone but who wants to look at it constantly? With the R09HR I set it and forgot it. If it clipped, never had any issues.

Any input?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on February 03, 2020, 01:44:25 AM
Anyway, A10, I had very very very minor clips during my 3rd show and they sound HORRIBLE, screeching noise and just terrible. Tried to reduce the amp, normalize, used Declip in Audacity. Can’t get them to sound good. This is so weird, how can such a mild clip sound so bad? I’ve never had this issue with the R09HR. Is the A10 A-D converter that bad at clipped input audio?

I had some very minor clipping during night 1 Van Morrison in Vegas Friday. I can share the song with the clipping if you want when I get back home. I spot checked it and it seems OK.

FWIW I wrote to Sound Pros about my setup - their modded AT U853s with 12v battery box. They told me to use line in and not mic in, so that’s what I’ve been doing.

Also, no issues with the walkthroughs at the Colosseum at Caesars Palace. If the A10 can get past that I guess it can get past anything.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on February 03, 2020, 01:50:07 AM

This is rather worrisome. Sure I can reduce the record level on the fly with my phone but who wants to look at it constantly? With the R09HR I set it and forgot it. If it clipped, never had any issues.

Any input?

Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: alanisrox69 on February 03, 2020, 02:26:50 AM

This is rather worrisome. Sure I can reduce the record level on the fly with my phone but who wants to look at it constantly? With the R09HR I set it and forgot it. If it clipped, never had any issues.

Any input?

Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.

I didn’t.
Title: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on February 03, 2020, 07:32:44 AM
If you were running at -12dB, why did you change your setup? If you are running 24 bit, that is a fine shoot to be.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: alanisrox69 on February 03, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
If you were running at -12dB, why did you change your setup? If you are running 24 bit, that is a fine shoot to be.

Just wanted to run the gamut on this new deck. Been using the R09HR for 10(?) plus years. Was doing 24/96, this is pretty bad if you clip on the A10 and you get noise like that. 24/96 should have no problem with clipping.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on February 03, 2020, 02:20:49 PM
Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.
I tried the A10 without the limiter and it makes bad sounding peaks. With the limiter 0dB peaks don't sound bad at all.
For the record, I've run my M10 with limiter for about ten years.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on February 03, 2020, 03:30:10 PM
If you were running at -12dB, why did you change your setup? If you are running 24 bit, that is a fine shoot to be.

Just wanted to run the gamut on this new deck. Been using the R09HR for 10(?) plus years. Was doing 24/96, this is pretty bad if you clip on the A10 and you get noise like that. 24/96 should have no problem with clipping.
What does running 24/96 have to do with clipping or not? Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on February 03, 2020, 03:57:22 PM
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: alanisrox69 on February 03, 2020, 04:10:50 PM
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution

Do you know if there is a comparison of the A10 vs R09HR noise floor?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on February 03, 2020, 05:17:11 PM
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution

Do you know if there is a comparison of the A10 vs R09HR noise floor?

they are similar : http://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/

all those handhelds operate in a similar range, 70-115 dB dynamic range depending on gain. average around 90 95 dB in normal use (16 bit = 96 dB of dynamic range. 24bit =144 dB of dynamic range). so there is a slight advantage of using 24-bit, which can be close to negligible with levels peaking anywhere close to correctly (say above -20dB)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rastasean on February 06, 2020, 11:15:47 AM
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on February 07, 2020, 11:09:53 AM
Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.
I tried the A10 without the limiter and it makes bad sounding peaks. With the limiter 0dB peaks don't sound bad at all.
For the record, I've run my M10 with limiter for about ten years.

I'm hearing the harsh peaks too. Boo.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on February 07, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Seems like he beats up on the A10 for noise because of the built-in mics. I don’t see any thoughts on line-in with that device which we know works pretty well
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on February 07, 2020, 02:07:23 PM
Isn't the solution to run more conservatively rather than push the levels close to 0 dB?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: colargol on February 07, 2020, 02:14:09 PM
Isn't the solution to run more conservatively rather than push the levels close to 0 dB?

That’s what I’ve been doing ever since I started recording in 24 bit... it works very well for my purpose, which is recording amplified live music.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rastasean on February 07, 2020, 03:26:47 PM
Seems like he beats up on the A10 for noise because of the built-in mics. I don’t see any thoughts on line-in with that device which we know works pretty well
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.

Right, mic-in line-in seems to work fine for him. I think he was just hoping for mics as quiet as the M10.
While reading over at https://www.reddit.com/r/fieldrecording/, many people seem to admire the D100. Not sure the D100 would be worth 1 1/2 times the price of the D10 without XLR.

Anyway, don't mean to derail this thread from the A10.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on February 07, 2020, 03:37:19 PM

it works very well for my purpose, which is recording amplified live music.

Indeed. Other discussion on the topic seems to border on mental gymnastics.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jj69 on February 17, 2020, 06:39:39 PM
Quick question: Have any other PCM-A10 owners experienced the recorder's Right channel failing?  A friend and I were early adopters of the A10 - I assume we both got the first batch delivered from Japan.  About 4 months ago, my Right channel (Input jack only) began to fail.  First, the right channel gain was slightly lower than the Left, a few days later, much lower, and eventually completely dead.  Both channels worked fine through the internal mics - the problem is limited to the input jack. 

Now, my friend is having the same issue. 

Just wondering if this is a common with the A10?  Anyone else have this happen? 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on February 17, 2020, 08:04:02 PM
mine was a relatively early one as well... no issues so far

if its out of warranty, maybe ask doug if he can repair it?

its a shame that gear this functional for our purposes is manufactured to be disposable
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on February 17, 2020, 08:22:42 PM
Clean the plug and jack and report back.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on February 22, 2020, 10:12:48 PM
Having a playback error with the A10.

Recorded a 3.5 hour set last night and it split the track at 2hrs or so per usual, however the unit refuses to play the first track. The recording was fine when I plugged into a computer and pulled it from the sd card. Just thought it was worth noting. It would only play 2-4 seconds of the first part then skip to the second half. No idea what would cause this, but it was a bit worrying when I left the venue and wanted to listen to the set on the way home.

In the end the recording was there, just will not play from the unit itself.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on February 23, 2020, 12:26:16 PM
Clean the plug and jack and report back.

Gonna be lazy here and ask the best method for this... just did another show on the A10 the other night and it has a level difference between left and right as well despite sitting DFC at a stellar venue.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: unidentified on February 23, 2020, 02:56:41 PM
Go to the drug store and get some 90+ alcohol and some of those little brush-tipped things used to clean between teeth (the ones just big enough to fit in the plug).  Saturate the brush with the alcohol and swab the inside of the socket while making sure that the open end of the socket is facing down to keep excess alcohol from running into the recorder itself. Use a fresh brush, again with alcohol, to swab the outside of the plug that goes into the socket.  Let dry and try. Please report back.  I am planning to buy an A10 but this could be a deal breaker for me. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on February 23, 2020, 10:12:47 PM
Slightly off topic perhaps, but I want to use my A10 to do vinyl rips too. Having control of the levels on a line in is new to me. Does anyone know what level I would want to do a flat transfer? I want to do minimal to no work in post, and I’d be using the preamp out from my receiver.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on February 23, 2020, 11:23:30 PM
depends on he gain of your receiver. most records should be similar in max level so set your level to whatever it requires to get to -6 to 0 dB, should be the same for other records.

with only about 60dB to work with i dont see records being more than a few dB different in their highest level
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on February 24, 2020, 01:41:26 AM
Cool, sounds like good common sense advice. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on February 24, 2020, 09:43:36 PM
Go to the drug store and get some 90+ alcohol and some of those little brush-tipped things used to clean between teeth (the ones just big enough to fit in the plug).  Saturate the brush with the alcohol and swab the inside of the socket while making sure that the open end of the socket is facing down to keep excess alcohol from running into the recorder itself. Use a fresh brush, again with alcohol, to swab the outside of the plug that goes into the socket.  Let dry and try. Please report back.  I am planning to buy an A10 but this could be a deal breaker for me.

Thanks!  I did a clean on the input jack earlier today before leaving for work.  Will check tomorrow morning to see if it helped.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Records on February 25, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
they are similar : http://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/

all those handhelds operate in a similar range, 70-115 dB dynamic range depending on gain. average around 90 95 dB in normal use (16 bit = 96 dB of dynamic range. 24bit =144 dB of dynamic range). so there is a slight advantage of using 24-bit, which can be close to negligible with levels peaking anywhere close to correctly (say above -20dB)

When I was comparing the A10 with my M10 and the same Rode Lavalier attached to both, the A10 seemed to actually be a couple dB cleaner on noise. The avisoft link says it should be the other way around though?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on February 25, 2020, 07:43:08 PM
Checked this morning and it seemed closer with the mics I used Saturday night; need to get my baby nBox to confirm.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on February 26, 2020, 12:36:54 PM
Other than ebay, the best pricing on this seems to be $229? Not all that interested in buying off ebay.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on March 14, 2020, 05:08:11 PM
Has anyone experienced channel imbalance issues with their A10? At first I thought it might be that my mics weren't properly matched, but I've done a bunch of vinyl rips over the past few days, and the left channel is consistently 2-3db less than the right.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on March 14, 2020, 05:50:05 PM
silly question, but have you tried swapping the RCAs on the input side to positively narrow it down to the A10?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on March 14, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
silly question, but have you tried swapping the RCAs on the input side to positively narrow it down to the A10?

Nope! That would be too obvious haha. I'll try that and report back.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on March 15, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
silly question, but have you tried swapping the RCAs on the input side to positively narrow it down to the A10?

I swapped the RCAs, and the left side is still 2-3db launder than the right.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on March 15, 2020, 07:42:22 PM
Are you using a 1/8" TRS to stereo RCA adaptoid for the input?

I would try cleaning the jack and plugs. Then try another set of clean plugs. If you get the same behavior, then it's most likely the unit itself.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on March 19, 2020, 04:33:38 PM
Quick question: Have any other PCM-A10 owners experienced the recorder's Right channel failing?  A friend and I were early adopters of the A10 - I assume we both got the first batch delivered from Japan.  About 4 months ago, my Right channel (Input jack only) began to fail.  First, the right channel gain was slightly lower than the Left, a few days later, much lower, and eventually completely dead.  Both channels worked fine through the internal mics - the problem is limited to the input jack. 
Just wondering if this is a common with the A10?  Anyone else have this happen?
I just realized that I NEVER even tried the line input on this thing.
My right channel is distinctly lower using multiple cables and a source which my M10 meters as having even levels!!!!!!

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on March 19, 2020, 04:39:23 PM
I will try and test mine also. If there's a pattern, hopefully Sony can drop a firmware fix.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on March 19, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
I'm on a chat with a Sony tech right now. Three cables, same result. Left channel hotter via line in on exact same signal.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on March 19, 2020, 05:38:56 PM
I just tried mine with some test tones. No problems here, besides the max pickup frequency being 16khz..
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on March 19, 2020, 05:52:06 PM
Chat could not fix it, I am contacting Pro Support next
https://na.info.pro.sony/Contact_us.html (https://na.info.pro.sony/Contact_us.html)

Edit: Chat's troubleshooting regimen was as follows

- check that I tried 2 cables. I tried three.
- power cycle recorder- turn it off and on again
- check that EQ is not the cause, cycle it on and off again
- check that Key Change is not the cause, cycle it on and off again
- reset all settings on recorder via menus

How to restart your recorder (power switch!)
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001677672.html (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001677672.html)
Adjust Equalizer:
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001886584.html (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001886584.html)
Check Key Change:
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684411.html (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684411.html)
Reset All Settings So The Recorder will even BEEP at you because I KNOW you turned that off!??
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001669024.html?search=reset (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001669024.html?search=reset)
Establishing Bluetooth connection for RecRemote (necessary after full reset!)
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684587.html (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684587.html)

NOTE! The thing I really learned here is that to re-establish bluetooth connectivity, the iOS device MUST FORGET the information from the "old" PCMA10 in order to pair with the newly reset unit! That was not in Sony's help instructions but I requested to the chat tech that it be added, and also left it as a comment on the help page.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on March 22, 2020, 04:24:14 PM
Did it work?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on March 22, 2020, 05:02:48 PM
Did it work?
Nope. I contacted Pro Support, so I now have a case number, and they say they'll get back to me. I will keep this thread updated as to progress.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on March 24, 2020, 05:38:12 PM
Did it work?
Nope. I contacted Pro Support, so I now have a case number, and they say they'll get back to me. I will keep this thread updated as to progress.
Spoke to Sean at Sony Pro Support in New Jersey.
We went through a reset, and checked to see if auto levels or mic mode made any difference to the input issue.
No difference, so I'm gonna send it it for a warranty claim. It comes with a year warranty so I should be good.
If anyone else wants to go through support, the phones are shut down right now, but you can email Sony Pro support in Jersey to get going. They will create a case number and get your info, and probably have you send it in if it can't be resolved with normal operation options.
You'll probably end up talking to Sean, he said he's the only one in the shop right now.
https://pro.sony/ue_US/product-resources/knowledge-panel/professional-warranty-information
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on March 24, 2020, 07:07:31 PM
since you have an ear see if you can weasel out of them when the next gen of products are coming out. tell em we want a 32-bit recorder with digital input , in the form factor of an icd-ux570 ;)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on March 25, 2020, 02:00:59 AM
Spoke to Sean at Sony Pro Support in New Jersey.
We went through a reset, and checked to see if auto levels or mic mode made any difference to the input issue.
No difference, so I'm gonna send it it for a warranty claim. It comes with a year warranty so I should be good.
If anyone else wants to go through support, the phones are shut down right now, but you can email Sony Pro support in Jersey to get going. They will create a case number and get your info, and probably have you send it in if it can't be resolved with normal operation options.
You'll probably end up talking to Sean, he said he's the only one in the shop right now.
https://pro.sony/ue_US/product-resources/knowledge-panel/professional-warranty-information

Thanks for going through all of that. I’ve been meaning to deal with it but I’ve been insanely busy the past couple weeks.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on April 13, 2020, 06:08:52 PM
I will try and test mine also. If there's a pattern, hopefully Sony can drop a firmware fix.
A brand new, sealed PCMA10 arrived today via FedEx 2-day, from Sony service in New Jersey.
I suggest sending yours in before the warranty period expires.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on April 13, 2020, 09:12:31 PM
my channels are different by ~0.35 dB

what do?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on April 13, 2020, 10:45:32 PM
my channels are different by ~0.35 dB
what do?
I don't know what the factory specs are supposed to be, but if it's rated as better than that and within warranty, then I would contact pro support and ask them. If you've literally gone through my steps above, they might tell you to send it in. Bet you have other recorders to use on that giant cylinder with rounded bottom project!??!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on April 13, 2020, 10:59:01 PM
my channels are different by ~0.35 dB
what do?
I don't know what the factory specs are supposed to be, but if it's rated as better than that and within warranty, then I would contact pro support and ask them. If you've literally gone through my steps above, they might tell you to send it in. Bet you have other recorders to use on that giant cylinder with rounded bottom project!??!

Less than half a dB is pretty decent. I wouldn’t fret it over that.
Title: Sony PCM A10 as a beginner-multipurpose-recorder?
Post by: Hexacore300 on May 07, 2020, 12:16:01 PM
So right now I’m doing some research on field recorders to find one that fits my fairly broad range of scenarios I would use it for:
I make DAWless music so portability plays a big role. My first area of use here would be recording the line out of my instruments on the go in high quality, in order to later edit it in the studio. Secondly, I was thinking about getting into sound design and recording ambient sounds to later use those in my music sessions. I was also thinking about using the microphones live to then tweak the sounds and loop them with my gear on the spot (Here the ability to send the incoming sound through the headphone out, getting tweaked in my music setup and THEN go back into the recorder to record the whole thing would be awesome, but I don’t think the A10 has the ability to do that).
And as you might have already read: Yes I would prefer to use the internal mics only. I’m not really planning on getting additional mics for the sake of carrying more with me all the time (Or are the internal microphones really this bad that you need external ones?).
Next to music I also do a bit of video shooting. So I thought I could use the field recorder as an external microphone to mount it on the hot shoe of my camera (the size of the A10 would come in handy for that) or use them separately and sync them in post. I’m currently using a Sony FDR ax33 for video. Would the A10 make a big enough upgrade to the internal microphone of my sony?

So I’m relatively new when it comes to field recorders. Do you think the A10 is a good beginner recorder that fits my needs? I’ve been also looking at the Tascam DR100 mk3 in the past (quite chunkier than the A10). The Sony PCM D100 seems to be in a completely different league compared to the two others but comes at a hefty price.
I’m thinking about getting something cheaper first and when I see my ideas work out I might take the plunge and get the D100…
But what do you guys think? Should I start small or should I go full quality immediately and get the D100?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on May 07, 2020, 12:46:28 PM
for what you want to do (layering tracks), look at some of the zoom recorders. still very budget friendly but they have all kinds of features like that

im not super well versed in the particular models, as those are features i dont need. Perhaps others could make more specific recs

in general the A10 internal mics would be a so-so choice, the larger ones on the zooms should be a substantial step up (in that price range)

https://www.zoom-na.com/
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on May 07, 2020, 02:50:31 PM
So I did some browsing on the Zoom recorders and I must say, the Zoom H6 rather intrigued me. Although I might not be using the XLR inputs (except when a pair of two of them allow for a stereo line signal to be fed into) but it could come in handy once I do need some. The modularity on the microphones looks good and the optional audio interface might just be what I need... What do you think in addition to the XYH-6 would be a good mic? SSH-6 maybe?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on May 07, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
Did some more browsing. I decided to go down to H5 since I probably don't need that many XLR inputs. I probably also want to get a Rycote windshield and the SSH-6. Is 32GB max SD card size ok?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on May 07, 2020, 04:44:13 PM
Welcome! Seeing as you're not getting an A10, I'd suggest that you start a new topic for all of your questions.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on May 07, 2020, 05:03:23 PM
also the search feature is useful as there are probably threads about those recorders already. its a little quirky but you'll get best results if you search in topic subjects only, and sort by most recent instead ofmost relevant. Seems to work the best for me that way, at least
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on May 08, 2020, 02:39:47 AM
Thanks for the tip! You're right, I'm probably done on this threat.
Thank you so much again for your support! :bigsmile:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on June 02, 2020, 04:35:34 AM
So I've been wondering, how do the A10's internal microphones compare in noise level to the Zoom XYH-6 or the Roland R-07 internal mics? I think the R-07 was a discussion before on this thread but I might have overread its noise level.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on June 07, 2020, 11:19:26 AM
some noise level measurements on A10 vs other recorders can be found here:

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: carpa on June 07, 2020, 04:50:16 PM
@Hexacore300. I just started a new thread about Zoom H6 as you seem interested to have some opinions.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on June 07, 2020, 08:04:23 PM
Sure, is there a link for the thread?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on June 07, 2020, 08:32:21 PM
the good thing about TS is that people keep it pretty organized. its in the same 'recording gear' sub board as this one, a few threads down

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=194638.0
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on June 09, 2020, 06:04:38 AM
Is the A10 a good recorder for recording PiP mics? I don't really care for XLR. I would like to leave the recorder out overnight and record for very long periods of time (yes I want to make a drop rig, as George Vlad likes to call them) and the Sony recorders seem to have good battery lives.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on June 09, 2020, 07:40:43 AM
Is the A10 a good recorder for recording PiP mics? I don't really care for XLR. I would like to leave the recorder out overnight and record for very long periods of time (yes I want to make a drop rig, as George Vlad likes to call them) and the Sony recorders seem to have good battery lives.

same as any other handheld
PIP is fine for moderate sounds
battery box necessary for loud music
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on June 09, 2020, 09:01:16 AM
Ok, I might just buy the A10 then.  But I'll do some more research.
The only thing I'm worried about is the noise on the built-in mics of the A10 although when I'm recording ambient I'll be using the LOM mikroUši so it should be fine.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on June 09, 2020, 03:26:15 PM
I do not have the link right now, but there is a web review of using the a10 for ambient as well as a youtube review. I remember reading/watching them when I was looking at purchasing my A10. The reviewers both used LOM mics in their drop rigs, protecting the A10 with either a pelican case or a waterproof hunting gear bag.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on June 10, 2020, 03:15:41 AM
It could have been George Vlad. He once uploaded a video about drop rigs and he also has a blog called Mindful Audio. Although he sees the A10 as a drop-rig-only-device, so apparently the internal mics aren't that great... But I will have to see once I get my own.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on July 10, 2020, 09:49:24 AM
Finally got the A10 and the LOM Mikro Uši!
The internal microphones are OK (I honestly expected much worse), but using the A10 together with the Mikro Ušis is a very good combo! I really like the compactness and the long battery life of the A10.
I will do some more tests but as of now I'm not regretting my purchase.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on August 12, 2020, 02:44:44 PM
Has anyone purchased a dead rat for the A10? I'm going to use the A10 as a camera mounted mic for travel video and could use something a little more substantial than the included windscreen.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Hexacore300 on August 12, 2020, 07:06:05 PM
I actually purchased a Rycote H1N Mini Windjammer which should fit the A10 quite well. Haven't gotten it yet, so I can't say anything about it's effectiveness. Rycote windshields seem to be very high quality though...

Also I've never heard the term "dead rat" only "dead cat/kitten" lol. I guess "dead rat" sounds less cruel?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on August 29, 2020, 09:25:47 PM
Sold my M-10 a couple months ago with every intention of replacting it with an A-10, but hate paying full price. I know there are ebay vendors with reduced pricing, but hard to get a line on which are truly legit. Any deals to be had before I pay full retail?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on August 29, 2020, 10:05:42 PM
i would pay full price thru a legit sony dealer and use a cc that eels you out 1-2 years of extra warranty (visa signature and citibank’s premium cards come to mind, some amex as well)

anybody below msrp on ebay, etc., you risk warranty issues

the unit is worth 220 imo

there was a camera shop i bought my zoom from who got me a slightly better price, i can ask if sony is in his stable
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on September 17, 2020, 05:55:24 PM
I just noticed something about the A10 which I don't like very much...


The built-in USB connector only runs at USB2 speed, not USB3.
For fastest file transfers, it is thus necessary to record to the microSD card, and physically remove the card to insert directly into a USB3 (or better) speed card reader.


#Cheap
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: RobBain on September 18, 2020, 06:54:22 AM
Hi

This is a good and important point.  I record wildlife sounds overnight.  I usually record 12-14 hours of material.  It took me 1 hour 20 minutes to transfer to my PC using the built-in (slow) USB connection.  Took just 20 minutes if I extract the SD card and use a card reader.  But it's not much of an issue.  Removing and replacing the SD card is very simple and straightforward.  I just do it carefully, that's all.

Rgds,

Rob
www.wildacoustics.com

I just noticed something about the A10 which I don't like very much...


The built-in USB connector only runs at USB2 speed, not USB3.
For fastest file transfers, it is thus necessary to record to the microSD card, and physically remove the card to insert directly into a USB3 (or better) speed card reader.


#Cheap
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dogmusic on September 20, 2020, 08:28:01 AM
I just noticed something about the A10 which I don't like very much...


The built-in USB connector only runs at USB2 speed, not USB3.
For fastest file transfers, it is thus necessary to record to the microSD card, and physically remove the card to insert directly into a USB3 (or better) speed card reader.


#Cheap

Is there any digital recorder that offers USB3?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on September 20, 2020, 08:40:24 AM
Do you mean a small form factor recorder? I think the larger Sound Devices MP series are probably USB3.

Edit: Nope. Even the SD recorders are USB 2.0
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on September 20, 2020, 03:16:34 PM
Nope. Even the SD recorders are USB 2.0
NO WONDER IT IS SO SLOW?!!!
 :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:



Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: unidentified on September 20, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
Does anyone remember dubbing a cassette or two in real time?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: fotoralf.be on September 20, 2020, 04:34:42 PM
On a side note: would the good folks here rather go for a A10 or a second-hand M10?

Ralf
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on September 20, 2020, 04:38:22 PM
I sold my M10 to buy an A10
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on September 20, 2020, 04:50:30 PM
having owned both, i see no advantage in m10
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: beatkilla on September 20, 2020, 06:42:30 PM
On a side note: would the good folks here rather go for a A10 or a second-hand M10?

Ralf

I strongly prefer the M-10....a real workhorse with low noise.My first M-10 from 2010 still working perfectly after 10 years of use/abuse.

I had an A-10 and it's IMO like a cheap toy.Mine even had clicking noise recorded in all modes. Just junk IMO. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on September 20, 2020, 07:36:03 PM
Go for the A10, the bluetooth functionality is worth it alone.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on September 20, 2020, 08:31:13 PM
Does anyone remember dubbing a cassette or two in real time?

I sure do.  And I also remember how cool it was when I got a double-cassette player that had high-speed copying so you could dub tapes at 2x speed.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on September 21, 2020, 11:40:59 AM
Does anyone remember dubbing a cassette or two in real time?
I remember paying for Circuit City's service contract and getting replacement dubbing decks every third time they needed speed adjustment, since they had a policy not to make the same repair three times on the same deck.


Step 1: Purchase new dubbing deck and warranty
Step 2: Take new deck to Service depot for precise speed adjustment and set record bias to my favorite tape type for recording.
Step 3: use deck until speed is not precise
Step 4: Take deck in for adjustment and calibration
Step 5: See step 3
Step 6: Take deck in for full exchange credit and pay a few dollars for a slightly nicer dubbing deck and pro-rated full 3 year warranty.
Step 7: give away all high speed duplicated cassettes when I moved a few years ago
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on September 22, 2020, 10:21:29 PM
Go for the A10, the bluetooth functionality is worth it alone.

This. I love my M10s, especially for their insane battery life, but being able to check levels via your phone is a game changer.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: checht on September 23, 2020, 12:12:06 AM
Does anyone remember dubbing a cassette or two in real time?

Back in the day, this band I liked played very frequently, many times at venues around the Bay Area. Before a set of shows, 4 or 5 friends would drop their cassette decks and a box of tapes with me. Each night I'd get home in SF 12-1, unpack my D-5M, and put it on top of a tower of decks that were daisy chained together. Loaded them all with blanks and put them in record/pause. I could unpause 4 at a time, then unpause my D-5M for playback plus any other recording decks. Would usually get at least first tape dubbed before sleeping then wake up and finish.

Friends all committed to make at least 5 copies for others in the tree, so we could get shows circulating without a whole lot of muss/fuss. I was running km84i's and that was somewhat unusual, so there was interest in the recordings.

Beta decks were more expensive, so we only had 2 SL-2000's at our house in Oakland, making offsite backup sharing a bit slower.

Mostly used Panasonic home DATs and Sony portables. No flips made it easier, but the thrill was going.

Now I seed torrents and have a dropbox archive for file sharing, and clone and mail hard drives full of shows. Very efficient, but somehow less satisfying for this dinosaur.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: daspyknows on September 23, 2020, 07:48:44 PM
Does anyone remember dubbing a cassette or two in real time?

Back in the day, this band I liked played very frequently, many times at venues around the Bay Area. Before a set of shows, 4 or 5 friends would drop their cassette decks and a box of tapes with me. Each night I'd get home in SF 12-1, unpack my D-5M, and put it on top of a tower of decks that were daisy chained together. Loaded them all with blanks and put them in record/pause. I could unpause 4 at a time, then unpause my D-5M for playback plus any other recording decks. Would usually get at least first tape dubbed before sleeping then wake up and finish.

Friends all committed to make at least 5 copies for others in the tree, so we could get shows circulating without a whole lot of muss/fuss. I was running km84i's and that was somewhat unusual, so there was interest in the recordings.

Beta decks were more expensive, so we only had 2 SL-2000's at our house in Oakland, making offsite backup sharing a bit slower.

Mostly used Panasonic home DATs and Sony portables. No flips made it easier, but the thrill was going.

Now I seed torrents and have a dropbox archive for file sharing, and clone and mail hard drives full of shows. Very efficient, but somehow less satisfying for this dinosaur.

I remember that house in Oakland.   :bigsmile:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on November 05, 2020, 06:47:22 PM
Just got this little guy in today.  I thought about saying something about how small it is ... but figured so many others ... oh fuck it ... I'll just go ahead then, THIS THING IS TINY!!!!

So in the Settings > Recording Settings menu -- there are a couple of settings I'm wondering about.

Recording Filter
NCF (Noise Cut)
LCF (Low Cut)

LIMITER
ON
OFF

I will be running the A10 as:  MK41s > Nbob Actives > Nbox Baby or Platinum > A10 > (24/96) -- usually at moderately to very loud shows.

Which of the two options under Recording Filter (NCF or LCF) and LIMITER (ON or OFF) should I start out using?

I've asked a few folks at Dime who are running the exact same rig I'm using (one with a Baby Nbox and the other with the Platinum) who both record in similar circumstances about input levels, and the Baby box user said 5-6; and the Platinum user said between 3-5.  I see others in these A10 threads using much higher input levels, but they aren't using Nboxes.  I haven't even tried it out yet, so obviously, I'll learn plenty when I get out there.  But just wanted to ask here if this sounds right.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on November 05, 2020, 06:49:54 PM
THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!!!

but seriously, it can take to (i beleive +11dBU), no brickwalling all the way down to input level 1. it buys a good amount of dynamic range at higher input levels

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: checht on November 05, 2020, 06:59:12 PM
Looking over your sig, seems like you have a rig that you've used before as well as the new hotness.

If that's the case, then my recommendation is:
1. Set up your old rig in a room with a stereo that you can turn up a bit. Place mics pretty close to speakers, set rig to usual gain for a show, then turn up stereo until you see usual levels.
2. Set up new rig w mics similarly situated, play stereo at previously determined loudness, then adjust gain on A10 until you're happy.

Not perfect, but has always worked for me for getting rough idea of starting point for new gear.

Hope that was clear; please let me know if I can unconfuse anything.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on November 05, 2020, 07:05:06 PM
Looking over your sig, seems like you have a rig that you've used before as well as the new hotness.

If that's the case, then my recommendation is:
1. Set up your old rig in a room with a stereo that you can turn up a bit. Place mics pretty close to speakers, set rig to usual gain for a show, then turn up stereo until you see usual levels.
2. Set up new rig w mics similarly situated, play stereo at previously determined loudness, then adjust gain on A10 until you're happy.

Not perfect, but has always worked for me for getting rough idea of starting point for new gear.

Hope that was clear; please let me know if I can unconfuse anything.

Clear as mud!!  No seriously - great suggestion.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: beatkilla on November 05, 2020, 07:25:18 PM
Just got this little guy in today.  I thought about saying something about how small it is ... but figured so many others ... oh fuck it ... I'll just go ahead then, THIS THING IS TINY!!!!

So in the Settings > Recording Settings menu -- there are a couple of settings I'm wondering about.

Recording Filter
NCF (Noise Cut)  OFF
LCF (Low Cut)  OFF

LIMITER  OFF
ON
OFF

I will be running the A10 as:  MK41s > Nbob Actives > Nbox Baby or Platinum > A10 > (24/96) -- usually at moderately to very loud shows.

Which of the two options under Recording Filter (NCF or LCF) and LIMITER (ON or OFF) should I start out using?

I've asked a few folks at Dime who are running the exact same rig I'm using (one with a Baby Nbox and the other with the Platinum) who both record in similar circumstances about input levels, and the Baby box user said 5-6; and the Platinum user said between 3-5.  I see others in these A10 threads using much higher input levels, but they aren't using Nboxes.  I haven't even tried it out yet, so obviously, I'll learn plenty when I get out there.  But just wanted to ask here if this sounds right.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on November 05, 2020, 07:38:48 PM
Just got this little guy in today.  I thought about saying something about how small it is ... but figured so many others ... oh fuck it ... I'll just go ahead then, THIS THING IS TINY!!!!

So in the Settings > Recording Settings menu -- there are a couple of settings I'm wondering about.

Recording Filter
NCF (Noise Cut)  OFF
LCF (Low Cut)  OFF

LIMITER  OFF
ON
OFF

I will be running the A10 as:  MK41s > Nbob Actives > Nbox Baby or Platinum > A10 > (24/96) -- usually at moderately to very loud shows.

Which of the two options under Recording Filter (NCF or LCF) and LIMITER (ON or OFF) should I start out using?

I've asked a few folks at Dime who are running the exact same rig I'm using (one with a Baby Nbox and the other with the Platinum) who both record in similar circumstances about input levels, and the Baby box user said 5-6; and the Platinum user said between 3-5.  I see others in these A10 threads using much higher input levels, but they aren't using Nboxes.  I haven't even tried it out yet, so obviously, I'll learn plenty when I get out there.  But just wanted to ask here if this sounds right.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jerryfreak on November 05, 2020, 07:41:52 PM
im not a limiter guy but ive heard this one is useless
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on November 05, 2020, 08:10:02 PM
LIMITER
ON
OFF
I use the limiter. Use the mobile app and you can toggle it on and off while recording and watching levels.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Falconidave on June 06, 2021, 12:10:24 PM
Does anyone have any word from Sony as to when they'll release a firmware edition beyond 1.01? Hopefully one that will take care of the audible clicks when changing levels manually. Remote takes care of that I know.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on June 22, 2021, 10:43:26 AM
New version of REC Remote for Android promising
Quote
Improved stability and performance.

I never had any stability or performance issues with the previous version and don't recall seeing any reports of that here?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hardrain62 on June 22, 2021, 07:37:01 PM
Is there any consensus on the headroom and/or sound quality of the internal mics? I know that taping with internals is mostly looked down on (sometimes for good reason), but I am very curious. The idea of throwing the unit in a hat and controlling it from my phone without fussing with any mic cables or battery boxes is a super appealing minimalist fantasy.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on June 23, 2021, 12:42:41 PM
Is there any consensus on the headroom and/or sound quality of the internal mics? I know that taping with internals is mostly looked down on (sometimes for good reason), but I am very curious. The idea of throwing the unit in a hat and controlling it from my phone without fussing with any mic cables or battery boxes is a super appealing minimalist fantasy.

When I first got my a10 I took it to a couple local singer/songwriter shows at bars etc and was actually very impressed with the sound. In a pinch or casual recording, they work just fine.

If that's the rig you want to run, go for it!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on June 23, 2021, 03:46:50 PM
Is there any consensus on the headroom and/or sound quality of the internal mics? I know that taping with internals is mostly looked down on (sometimes for good reason), but I am very curious. The idea of throwing the unit in a hat and controlling it from my phone without fussing with any mic cables or battery boxes is a super appealing minimalist fantasy.
I'd say it sounds pretty good for rock and roll. Certainly compares to other handhelds.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on June 28, 2021, 05:47:15 PM
New version of REC Remote for Android promising
Quote
Improved stability and performance.

I never had any stability or performance issues with the previous version and don't recall seeing any reports of that here?
v3.2.0 is now available for Apple iOS as well. Gonna try running it on my M1 Big Sur to see if it functions?! Uh, no.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sony-rec-remote/id1076809535


Quote
"
This app is available only on the App Store for iPhone."
Oh.
Ugh, now my iPad can't find the A10 on bluetooth but my phone still can? Oh yeah I guess I never paired the iPad with the replacement A10 I got after noticing that my balance was not even on the line input.


New version looks identical to the old version, best I can tell. Has it always had "scene select" available? I'm gonna use my two user scenes to set it for 96K or 48K so I can record bird chirps at 96.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: colargol on June 29, 2021, 02:43:54 AM
This might have been mentioned here before...

The other day, before a show, I charged the A10 plugged into my mac. I forgot that it would be connected, so i just disconnected it physically when charging was done. Then the A10 said "The SD card needs to be formatted". I went into panic mode for a second or two...

The solution turned out to be simple. I plugged it back into the mac, waiting till the disks were connected, then ejected them properly before disconnecting, and the error message was gone.

Just thought I would mention this in case anyone ends up in the same situation...

-c
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on June 29, 2021, 01:18:55 PM
This might have been mentioned here before...

The other day, before a show, I charged the A10 plugged into my mac. I forgot that it would be connected, so i just disconnected it physically when charging was done. Then the A10 said "The SD card needs to be formatted". I went into panic mode for a second or two...

The solution turned out to be simple. I plugged it back into the mac, waiting till the disks were connected, then ejected them properly before disconnecting, and the error message was gone.

Just thought I would mention this in case anyone ends up in the same situation...

-c
That could save someone's bacon. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on July 15, 2021, 07:20:28 PM
Quick question.... What are the best setting when at a metal show and a 1 is clipping. Schoeps to an nBox to the a10. Manual on line in
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on July 15, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quick question.... What are the best setting when at a metal show and a 1 is clipping. Schoeps to an nBox to the a10. Manual on line in

Baby nbox  ;D

The regular nbox is 20db of fixed gain, right?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on July 15, 2021, 08:09:34 PM
Quick question.... What are the best setting when at a metal show and a 1 is clipping. Schoeps to an nBox to the a10. Manual on line in

Baby nbox  ;D

The regular nbox is 20db of fixed gain, right?

I believe so.@schoepsnbox would have to confirm.  Loudest show I have used the A10 at. Only my 3rd show. Purchased just before the pandemic hit
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on July 15, 2021, 11:04:49 PM
Quick question.... What are the best setting when at a metal show and a 1 is clipping. Schoeps to an nBox to the a10. Manual on line in
resistive pad cable?
That's what I had to get in order to knock down the signal level from my Beyer MV100 preamp, which has options of +20,+40 or +60 dB gain, in order to go into the line-level-limited Zoom H2 (original "electric shaver" handheld only takes nominal 0.775v on its line in, which is really low)
I found a -11dB pad cable from Coresound, which worked great for me on that setup with minimum fixed gain.
Looks to still be available in -11, -20 and -32dB version.
(1/8" mini female input, 1/8" mini male output)
https://www.core-sound.com/products/attenuator-cables (https://www.core-sound.com/products/attenuator-cables)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5f0d4e7fc5a9337e5d870aa6/1606888584593-YZV075MF5HIZAZX2R77I/Attenuator+cable.jpg?format=1500w)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on September 02, 2021, 06:55:45 PM
Interesting question (and I'm sure it's possibly been asked).  My original A10 was a "demo unit" supplied by Sony to the person I bought it from on eBay.  It has the manufacturing number (and all text is in English) -- this was in the first 300 units made.

My secondary A10 just arrived from Amazon;  it has the manufacturing number along the bottom in the same spot but it also has some Chinese Korean text alongside the English text on the back and a manufacturing date stamped into the unit. Is this normal?  Or this is a bootleg unit?  Confirmed paperwork has a Korean manual/registration card alongside "GB" English one.

I've seen pictures of both on eBay and on the internet.  The Korean models I've seen videos of have different back covers.

Thanks all!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on September 02, 2021, 07:02:13 PM
Interesting question (and I'm sure it's possibly been asked).  My original A10 was a "demo unit" supplied by Sony to the person I bought it from on eBay.  It has the manufacturing number (and all text is in English) -- this was in the first 300 units made.

My secondary A10 just arrived from Amazon;  it has the manufacturing number along the bottom in the same spot but it also has some Chinese text alongside the English text on the back and a manufacturing date stamped into the unit. Is this normal?  Or this is a bootleg unit?

I've seen pictures of both on eBay and on the internet.

Thanks all!

Mine is all English besides the Fabrique en Chine lettering. Serial number below 300, not really much help  ???
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on September 02, 2021, 10:49:02 PM
Mine appears to be #508. No Korean text or date on the back.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on September 03, 2021, 01:39:41 AM
I sent my first one back to Sony service in New Jersey, due to unequal levels (left channel was low) and got back PCM-A10 #1000694.
It's got an FCC ID number printed on it, so I assume it's for the USA market.

Lettering is all English except it does say "Fabriqué En Chine" in French.
No production date that I can see
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on September 03, 2021, 04:38:54 PM

It's got an FCC ID number printed on it, so I assume it's for the USA market.

Lettering is all English except it does say "Fabriqué En Chine" in French.

Mine has the French as well, which leads me to believe Sony was making one production run for both the US and Canadian markets.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on September 07, 2021, 09:21:57 AM
I sent my first one back to Sony service in New Jersey, due to unequal levels (left channel was low) and got back PCM-A10 #1000694.
It's got an FCC ID number printed on it, so I assume it's for the USA market.

Lettering is all English except it does say "Fabriqué En Chine" in French.
No production date that I can see

Did you get a good unit sent back? I had the same issue, sent it back, and the second unit had the same issue.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on September 07, 2021, 02:14:22 PM
I sent my first one back to Sony service in New Jersey, due to unequal levels (left channel was low) and got back PCM-A10 #1000694.
It's got an FCC ID number printed on it, so I assume it's for the USA market.

Did you get a good unit sent back? I had the same issue, sent it back, and the second unit had the same issue.
Yeah second one is fine
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: tjj5036 on September 07, 2021, 07:25:53 PM
How much lower was the channel? I think I might have a similar issue.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on September 07, 2021, 07:44:24 PM
How much lower was the channel? I think I might have a similar issue.

In my case, one channel was about 6dB lower than the other. :(
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on September 08, 2021, 04:07:51 PM
I'll check the file from the first attempt... I think it was down -6dB or so
Ok

My test recording shows peaks which differ by nearly 5.5dB
Note that the discrepancy with the line input levels was never an issue with the internal mics, which is one reason I didn't notice the problem for a few months.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hardrain62 on October 01, 2021, 10:11:07 AM
So I finally got to use my A10 for the first time last night at the Pines in Florence, MA for Big Thief. I didn't want to go through the whole usual rigmarole with mics, battery boxes and cables, so I figured I'd try out the internal mics, as folks here said they were pretty good. I was in a position to use them, as I was in the back of the amphitheater GA pit, which itself had people seated on low-back lawn chairs in the rear-half. I perched the A10 on a structure about 4' high, with a totally unobstructed shot at the speaker stacks (again, amphitheater), and man, I've gotta say, those on-board mics on the A10 are really, really special. The sound I'm hearing on playback is a near-flawless representation of exactly what I heard from that spot. I can't imagine a scenario where any of my mics, AT943 included, would have done any better at all. And controlling the settings and monitoring the waveform on my iPhone 12 Mini was the icing on the cake. I would have absolutely no reservations about using the on-board mics again if I know I'll be in a position to situate the A10 on a structure that will allow for advantageous placement.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on October 02, 2021, 01:28:27 PM
Today, church, bells, PCM-A10, internal mics, recording level -3, near the bell ringer.

Record
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MDMN6_1vqtBeQX85AxRaMAfYvAPmDhb_/view?usp=sharing

(https://sun9-44.userapi.com/impg/lEIoqu9EriqzU0lul8AhkwTPzoqu9nMrXcp7bg/kyC7iRTWO9E.jpg?size=840x550&quality=96&sign=9b3ede9b35231823975df2725b4e5d37&type=album)
https://vk.com/id186749794?w=wall186749794_788%2Fall

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on October 03, 2021, 08:45:16 AM
Excellent result on those bells!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 17, 2021, 12:48:19 PM
New question/confusion... here is the story:
Stealthing a show, using the REC Remote app to monitor levels.  I check ever few songs.  When I check about an hour in, there are no levels and I pull out the deck, it is on but no longer recording.  Looking at the screen it said something like "operational error". I panic, unlock it, power it off, then back on.  I hit record on the deck and it starts recording. I lock it and check the app, all looks good.  Keep recording and when the show if over, take the deck off hold, hit stop and then power it off and put it back in hold.
I get home, I have a tmp_211015_2058.wav file on the SD card (internal was full before the show and assumed, based on 3 prior shows and plenty of hours of record time remaining, it would just record to the SD card until it was full). This is the 1st 40 minutes of the show.
I have no second file, no temp or regular file.
I tried to do a file recovrey/restore with Recouva, and there are no files torecovere from the SD card or the internal memory.

Questions:
- what could cause the deck to stop recording on its own during a show?
- what could cause the deck to not record/save the file after a restart of the deck, when the app and deck both showed it was running?
- how often are people formatting the internal memory?
- how often are people formatting their SD card?

Any other ideas or suggestions are appreciated.  This is the 1st time in many years (maybe a decade or more) I have had any crash on any Sony or Sound Devices decks and I am willing to bet I was the only one at The Struts here in Rochester NY Friday night :(
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on October 17, 2021, 01:52:06 PM
I never tried Recouva, but have you tried ZAR?
Website gives a certificate error, but seems ok.
https://www.z-a-recovery.com


There is a setting on the A10 to automatically switch to memory card when the internal gets full.
I don't really think that's relevant in this case, but I would set it to switch over instead of stopping.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 17, 2021, 02:23:33 PM
Website gives a certificate error, but seems ok.
https://www.z-a-recovery.com
There is a setting on the A10 to automatically switch to memory card when the internal gets full.
I don't really think that's relevant in this case, but I would set it to switch over instead of stopping.

Ill give ZAR a try, not tred that one before.
I do have cross-memory recording on, and that worked back in July perfectly during a show when the memory filled up.  I domt think that was a concern, but I agree, it is worth having on. I do find it interesting that the M10 did SD then internal, now the A10 does internal then SD
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on October 17, 2021, 03:09:31 PM
Any other ideas or suggestions are appreciated. 
If you took out the CD card before the show or inserted another, you need to check the memory priority setting and automatic switching to the memory card when the internal memory is full.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 17, 2021, 03:30:50 PM
If you took out the CD card before the show or inserted another, you need to check the memory priority setting and automatic switching to the memory card when the internal memory is full.
I have not taken the card out since I put it in... until I got home the other night. Cross Memory recording was already turned on and did work fine when the internal memory filled back in July and the rest of that show saved properly to the SD card.
The internal memory was full already, and the opener and a couple of test tracks saved to the SD card fine, but the headliner file crashed (but did save) the 2nd file, after power cycling the unit, just does not exist.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on October 19, 2021, 07:01:08 PM
I just picked up one of these from Ebay, but I think it's a lemon.

I don't get any indication that it's doing anything when I plug it into my PC, or any charging status on the unit's LCD screen. Is it fair to assume it's junk, or does it need to sit on a charger a long time before it does anything?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on October 19, 2021, 09:30:45 PM
I just picked up one of these from Ebay, but I think it's a lemon.

I don't get any indication that it's doing anything when I plug it into my PC, or any charging status on the unit's LCD screen. Is it fair to assume it's junk, or does it need to sit on a charger a long time before it does anything?


It should start charging right away, yeah. Does anything happen if you plug it into a regular USB charger, like a phone charger?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on October 19, 2021, 09:59:21 PM
I just picked up one of these from Ebay, but I think it's a lemon.

I don't get any indication that it's doing anything when I plug it into my PC, or any charging status on the unit's LCD screen. Is it fair to assume it's junk, or does it need to sit on a charger a long time before it does anything?


It should start charging right away, yeah. Does anything happen if you plug it into a regular USB charger, like a phone charger?

Nothing, unfortunately. The only thing it does is get warm.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on November 01, 2021, 10:04:57 AM
IMPORTANT FOR iPHONE 13 USERS

I've had my A10 for one year and it's been my main recording deck since the day I got it (previous main deck was an Edirol R-07).  I used my iPhone 12 Pro Max when I first got the A10, and I've been loving the ease with which I can control the recording with an app on my phone.  A week ago, I got an iPhone 13 Pro Max (w/ 1TB storage).  And that's when this conundrum began ... no matter what I did, I could not get the iPhone 13 to recognize (and pair with) the A10.  I tried and tried and tried ... but no dice.  The only saving grace was that the iPhone 12 / A10 combo has always worked just fine, so I was still able to >:D two shows last week while using the A10 app on my iPhone.  But I only have two weeks from receipt of the iPhone 13 to return the iPhone 12 and get the guaranteed refund for the trade-in.  I chatted with Apple support via text at their webpage ... not much help.  I drove over to a Best Buy and found a sharp young guy in the smart phone section and he actually gave it a really good effort (especially considering I didn't buy the phone or recorder from Best Buy so I was just a random guy walking in off the street asking for service).  After that, I finally decided I had to go big, so I made an appointment at the nearest Apple Store, which is an hour drive away.  I don't go there often, so I don't know what's normal, but I was seen after waiting 5 minutes or so.  The person who assisted me was a young lady named Grace, probably in her mid-late 20s.  She dove right into it - had my iPhone 12, iPhone 13 and A10 layed out along with a few other devices of her own and also had the A10 manual pulled up on her iPad.  For a good half hour she poked around through the iPhone menus, ran diagnostics, did various other testing, went to the backroom a couple of times ... but no bueno.  She called her boss Sasha over and he worked on it for five minutes or so.  He had some really insightful ideas for fixes ... but even he couldn't solve this.  Sasha got called away to another customer and Grace went back at it.  Around 45 minutes in - after reading parts of the A10 manual - Grace started taking a hard look at the menus in the A10; in particular, the Bluetooth menu.  And then she found something and BANG - just like that - problem solved.  So the smart thing for me at that point would have been to ask Grace exactly what she had just found that fixed the problem.  But I was super happy to finally get this saga done with and this was 50 minutes into the session; and I could tell Grace needed a break.  So I just thanked her and left.  Just as she was about to solve the problem, however, I do remember her saying she was looking at the bluetooth settings in the A10 and it looked like it was set to send data out to a device like a bluetooth speaker, as opposed to being set to receive data from a recording rig.  So after it was all said and done ... there is still that mystery out there ... if the bluetooth settings in the A10 were the problem (with the iPhone 13), for the last year, why (how?) did the A10 work just fine with the iPhone 12?  Grace was equally baffled by this question.

TL;DR:  If you upgrade an iPhone that works properly with the A10 app, but your new iPhone doesn't connect over bluetooth with the A10 app, the solution is probably in the A10's bluetooth menu.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vantheman on November 05, 2021, 10:25:43 PM
It’s been almost 2 years since I’ve done a show with the A10. Back then it got past the wands with no problem. Can anyone confirm that this is still the case? I have a couple important shows coming up.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on November 06, 2021, 05:43:31 AM
No clue, but I bet the clock is dead - maybe leave it powered on for a while?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on November 06, 2021, 12:42:12 PM
It’s been almost 2 years since I’ve done a show with the A10. Back then it got past the wands with no problem. Can anyone confirm that this is still the case? I have a couple important shows coming up.

I've noticed lately that a lot of venues that previously wanded - aren't doing it now.  I think in the current (tight) labor market, a lot of venues have had to decide which positions aren't critical to the operation, and someone at each gate wanding people coming in is one of those jobs they can cut and not take a financial hit and/or piss off patrons.  Of course, this all subject to change.

Having said that - even if they are wanding, you didn't have any problems before, so just keep doing whatever you did before and you should be fine.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on November 10, 2021, 05:42:09 PM
Just in case anyone here is looking for an A10, Amazon Canada has them in stock. They won't ship directly out of the country, but you can use a postal forwarding service to get it.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Twenty8 on November 24, 2021, 09:11:30 PM
Sony stop producing these?  Had an alert on Adorama for well over a month, just for s & giggles... still not in stock.

Anyone know the deal?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: beatkilla on November 25, 2021, 09:33:16 AM
Sony stop producing these?  Had an alert on Adorama for well over a month, just for s & giggles... still not in stock.

Anyone know the deal?


Here is what B&H Photo says


Expected availability: Jun 13, 2022



Must be a parts shortage?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Cheesecadet on December 29, 2021, 10:01:05 PM
So has anyone figured out what each number on the recording gain equates to in dB?

Meaning if 10 on the manual recording level goes to eleven, does it just increase by one dB or an increment of say three?

Thought I would ask here before trying to test myself
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: neutrino on December 30, 2021, 12:25:05 AM
Anyone aware of any mods anyone is doing with the A10??
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on December 30, 2021, 08:40:26 AM
So has anyone figured out what each number on the recording gain equates to in dB?

Meaning if 10 on the manual recording level goes to eleven, does it just increase by one dB or an increment of say three?


Pretty close to 1 dB per number in my experience, but I haven't done any kind of exhaustive test.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: aaronji on December 30, 2021, 02:07:51 PM
I don't have any experience with the A10, so this may be completely off base, but I think audio gain pots are usually logarithmic.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Cheesecadet on December 30, 2021, 03:32:31 PM
Only reason I ask is because on my M10 it appears that each number level of gain is equates to approx 3dB IMO
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on December 31, 2021, 11:45:14 AM
Anyone aware of any mods anyone is doing with the A10??

Doug Oade took one apart and determined he couldn't mod. Not sure why.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on December 31, 2021, 11:08:29 PM
Doug Oade took one apart and determined he couldn't mod. Not sure why.
probably far too teeny and integrated / monolithic to be able to improve and still get the case shut!?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Sebastian on January 03, 2022, 02:18:23 AM
Doug Oade took one apart and determined he couldn't mod. Not sure why.

Finally. I never really understood the need for these mods. Not for the kind of recordings we make. Everyone is better off spending that money on concert tickets.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 03, 2022, 02:48:29 PM
Doug Oade took one apart and determined he couldn't mod. Not sure why.

Finally. I never really understood the need for these mods. Not for the kind of recordings we make. Everyone is better off spending that money on concert tickets.


could not disagree more. The post mod specs are so much better. I won't run a $2000 pair of mics into a prosumer recorder's crappy preamps. Now line in, it's fine. But not the preamps. I look at someone going cheap with a stock A10, or running cheap mics, skip a few high ticket runs and you've got the cash. Imo.

I ran the A10 out of a babynbox and the results were really weak.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on January 03, 2022, 03:02:49 PM
I ran the A10 out of a babynbox and the results were really weak.

Can you quantify the "really weak"?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on January 03, 2022, 04:20:39 PM
I ran the A10 out of a babynbox and the results were really weak.

Can you quantify the "really weak"?

I was more than satisfied with the results:
https://archive.org/details/ttb2021-12-03.m21.flac24

Doesn't edtyre run schoeps > baby nbox > A10? I don't think there is much complaints there with his recordings.
https://archive.org/details/@edtyre2?query=a-10

ETA:
To be clear, I don't run into an A-10 because I'm being cheap. I'm doing it for low profile ability. Period. When I can bring a bag and stand, I bring other gear although after listening to this recording, I may choose to run low profile gear more often.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on January 03, 2022, 04:46:40 PM
I get only running the A10 "in the hat" situation and better gear in the bag, I do the same thing. I always factor that into my ears when listening to a recording... i hope others do too
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: RyanJ on January 03, 2022, 08:55:34 PM
Anyone aware of any mods anyone is doing with the A10??

Doug Oade took one apart and determined he couldn't mod. Not sure why.

I asked Doug if he could mod these a few weeks ago and I think it was that the parts were soldered to the board and it deemed the A10 could not be modified.

I agree, I use the A10 for low profile situations. I have not had any issues running the Schoeps babynbox A10 rig. I am very happy with the sound results.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Sebastian on January 04, 2022, 04:50:42 AM
could not disagree more. The post mod specs are so much better.

They might be better on paper, but I highly doubt they'll have any real world influence on what the kind of recordings we do sound like.


I ran the A10 out of a babynbox and the results were really weak.

Maybe the sound was already "weak" (whatever this means) when entering the recorder. It's hard to believe, but sometimes a recording just sounds bad and there's nothing a $2000 pair of mics or the best recorder in the world could do about it. There are other factors that influence how a recording sounds that are way more relevant than some number on a spec sheet. Especially in the kind of situation most of us usually record in.

I asked Doug if he could mod these a few weeks ago and I think it was that the parts were soldered to the board and it deemed the A10 could not be modified.

Aren't pretty much all parts in all modern recorders soldered to the PCB?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 04, 2022, 10:31:16 AM
I ran the A10 out of a babynbox and the results were really weak.

Can you quantify the "really weak"?

flat, two dimensional, lacking in width or depth of soundstage.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 04, 2022, 10:32:42 AM
Doug Oade took one apart and determined he couldn't mod. Not sure why.
probably far too teeny and integrated / monolithic to be able to improve and still get the case shut!?

I think that was it. Unlike the Marantz decks and the M10, there are no mic spaces to be removed, since they protrude in the A10
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 04, 2022, 10:35:27 AM
I don't mean to dog anyone's tapes, it's not the difference between bad/good. It's good/very good to great. I've heard several good bnb_A10 tapes. Just no great ones.

It's a bit of a moot point for the near future, my understanding is that the parts Doug needs are backordered until 2023.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on January 04, 2022, 01:17:57 PM
Aren't pretty much all parts in all modern recorders soldered to the PCB?
No, some are actually integrated into chips or packages, and can't simply be swapped out.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on January 04, 2022, 04:48:47 PM
I ran the A10 out of a babynbox and the results were really weak.

Can you quantify the "really weak"?

flat, two dimensional, lacking in width or depth of soundstage.

That would only be caused by severe lack of channel separation, if it was demonstrably caused by the recorder itself.  I don't recall anyone reporting such a phenomenon before.  It's very easily tested - feed a signal into one channel and see whether it also shows up on the other channel. It seems therefore to be a local issue, caused by a defect in the unit, or by misoperation eg incorrect settings for recording format.  That's not an insult - I recently did that myself when using a recorder I hadn't used for some time, and contrived to record in mono...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on January 04, 2022, 05:00:36 PM
I don't mean to dog anyone's tapes, it's not the difference between bad/good. It's good/very good to great. I've heard several good bnb_A10 tapes. Just no great ones.

It's a bit of a moot point for the near future, my understanding is that the parts Doug needs are backordered until 2023.

Taste in tonality is subjective, just like everything else. I certainly understand the itch to mod.

I've been very happy with my nbox > A10 combo and have been increasingly using it except for the times I want to run 4 channel.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 05, 2022, 10:25:30 AM
I ran the A10 out of a babynbox and the results were really weak.

Can you quantify the "really weak"?

flat, two dimensional, lacking in width or depth of soundstage.

That would only be caused by severe lack of channel separation, if it was demonstrably caused by the recorder itself.  I don't recall anyone reporting such a phenomenon before.  It's very easily tested - feed a signal into one channel and see whether it also shows up on the other channel. It seems therefore to be a local issue, caused by a defect in the unit, or by misoperation eg incorrect settings for recording format.  That's not an insult - I recently did that myself when using a recorder I hadn't used for some time, and contrived to record in mono...

um, no. I don't believe that is what I'm hearing. I've owned plenty of IEMs that give the same aural representation.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 05, 2022, 10:26:31 AM
I don't mean to dog anyone's tapes, it's not the difference between bad/good. It's good/very good to great. I've heard several good bnb_A10 tapes. Just no great ones.

It's a bit of a moot point for the near future, my understanding is that the parts Doug needs are backordered until 2023.

Taste in tonality is subjective, just like everything else. I certainly understand the itch to mod.

I've been very happy with my nbox > A10 combo and have been increasingly using it except for the times I want to run 4 channel.

line in, it sounds very solid, imo.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on January 05, 2022, 10:52:12 AM
I think the bottom line is that MakersMarc is looking for something in a small handheld recorder that isn't present in the A-10, something that may be esoteric to others and has no impact to their ability to use the A-10 in their specific situations without any apparent negative impact on the overall quality and enjoyment of the recording of a high SPL audience recording, which is how many of us use it.  The advantages seen by others is not enough for MakersMarc and he prefers to use a different recorder that others feel do not meet their requirements of size and convenience. Fair enough, but I think it is a minority opinion at this point without specific examples. At the end of the day, I let my ears tell me what is working to get the job done and my ears tell me the A-10 is a fine device for the purpose.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on January 05, 2022, 12:23:20 PM

um, no. I don't believe that is what I'm hearing. I've owned plenty of IEMs that give the same aural representation.

Maybe share a sample? As an A10 user, I'd be interested to hear what I should be avoiding.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 05, 2022, 12:33:11 PM
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it. I think I’ve yapped enough about it. I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers. To be clear, I’m not saying the A10 mic in recordings aren’t good. They are.

This is an old, old debate. Back then, the folks running stock sbm1s said they didn’t need a mod, that it sounded “just fine” to them. Or that an AD1000 wasn’t worth it. The Bnb>A10 tapes are just fine. I personally have always looked for a lot more than fine. The payoff for spending ridiculous sums on a pair of mics, tickets, the hassle of sneaking gear in, has to be more than just fine. That doesn’t necessarily mean more expensive. My 620 decks all cost around $100 used, the mods $200. Hell many of us spend more than $200 on cables and mounts. Certainly less than running an outboard pre.

Open offer to established members, a Marantz 620 warm mod deck so you can comp yourselves.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on January 05, 2022, 07:57:16 PM
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it.  I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers. To be clear, I’m not saying the A10 mic in recordings aren’t good. They are.

I think this is exactly what I said, without the snarky comment about drinking the kool-aid. Your comment is subjective without any real detail to what is insufficient about the recordings.

This is an old, old debate. Back then, the folks running stock sbm1s said they didn’t need a mod, that it sounded “just fine” to them. Or that an AD1000 wasn’t worth it. The Bnb>A10 tapes are just fine. I personally have always looked for a lot more than fine. The payoff for spending ridiculous sums on a pair of mics, tickets, the hassle of sneaking gear in, has to be more than just fine. That doesn’t necessarily mean more expensive. My 620 decks all cost around $100 used, the mods $200. Hell many of us spend more than $200 on cables and mounts. Certainly less than running an outboard pre.

Not about cost. I get the feeling there may be a fair bit of nostalgia about "mods" to equipment. Using SBM1's as an example? I've been perfectly satisfied with various stock handhelds and other small form factor recorders. I sold my outboard preamps years ago because I didn't feel it was worth the effort of carrying the extra gear and batteries to power it. I'm not saying it was better without the preamp, just that the small, small difference was not worth my effort.  For the record, I loved my full body AKG 480's with a UA-5 warm+ mod preamp. But, I doubt I'll ever run that rig again. I still have the UA-5 here.

Back to the points for others reading this thread, lest someone think the recorder is not a good choice for what we do:
1. An A-10 is tiny and a great part of a low profile rig.
2. The sound quality is good, in my opinion, much more than adequate. Maybe not great, but certainly good and most users listening to audience recordings are very satisfied with the resulting audio.
3. The ability to fully control the A-10 via bluetooth in a world where everyone has their phone out at a concert adds to the low profile value.

To me, the quality of most recordings done today with the right gear is far superior to what was done 25-30 years ago, modded or unmodded. A baby nbox > A-10 is a nice back end of a rig and I am more than satisfied with my results and the results I listen to by others. It was recordings by others that made me sell my M-10 and buy the A-10 and then buy a baby nbox. I wanted a quality low profile rig. I am stating this as an opinion and suggest anyone looking for options to include the A-10 in their own listening comps. The last many pages have been critical of the recorder and I want to even out the discussion a bit.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 06, 2022, 12:44:17 PM
Yeah Rory, I could have said what I wanted without the koolaid comment, apologies.

Doug reminded me that good sound isn’t always quantifiable in specs, even though the chips he uses spec out much, much better. Our ears are the best judge. If you like how your A10 sounds, that’s great. You should rejoice in saving the money that a modded recorder costs, while making recordings you are happy with. At the end of the day, that’s all that matters.

Offer to lend a warm mod marantz 620 is always open to established members.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: edtyre on January 06, 2022, 11:12:10 PM
Wow i just read some of this! I wasn't happy with my bnb > r-5 or m-10 combo at all, my nbox > r-5 smoked it
but as soon as i got an r-07, i noticed a big diff in sound quality. You know why? Has nothing to do with dynamic range.
It's the adc!! When i got the A-10, the sound was even better, so now that's the recorder i use for stealth only. I'm the only one
that has to like the way my recordings sound. Also everyone i know runs line in to the A-10.

Nicky makes great gear!

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 07, 2022, 01:30:43 PM
Hey Ed, sorry I didn’t mean to dog your tapes, I have dozens and all are solid.

So you run line in? Where are the A10 levels? Do you get enough gain?

I agree, I love Nicky’s gear. I have two sets of kcy nbobs, and two babynboxs.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: edtyre on January 07, 2022, 06:43:32 PM
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it. I think I’ve yapped enough about it. I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers
edtyre is the name and the A-10 is my game!
I run mine with baby nbox set gain at 20 and go up or down
from there line in!
Listen…Kris Wescott and I both ran stock 620’s
a while ago, we both thought they sounded good
but there was something quirky about it that I didn’t
like (can’t remember now) so I sold mine.
Send me a pm, I’ll try out your modded 620.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dactylus on January 08, 2022, 08:30:19 AM
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it. I think I’ve yapped enough about it. I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers
edtyre is the name and the A-10 is my game!
I run mine with baby nbox set gain at 20 and go up or down
from there line in!
Listen…Kris Wescott and I both ran stock 620’s
a while ago, we both thought they sounded good
but there was something quirky about it that I didn’t
like (can’t remember now) so I sold mine.
Send me a pm, I’ll try out your modded 620.

 :cheers:

+T --> MakersMarc & edtyre - Many a great recording from both of you!

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 08, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it. I think I’ve yapped enough about it. I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers
edtyre is the name and the A-10 is my game!
I run mine with baby nbox set gain at 20 and go up or down
from there line in!
Listen…Kris Wescott and I both ran stock 620’s
a while ago, we both thought they sounded good
but there was something quirky about it that I didn’t
like (can’t remember now) so I sold mine.
Send me a pm, I’ll try out your modded 620.

PM sent
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: edtyre on January 16, 2022, 12:13:43 PM
https://archive.org/details/ttb2021-09-18.mk41v.edtyre

another a-10 recording
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on January 16, 2022, 12:47:44 PM
https://archive.org/details/ttb2021-09-18.mk41v.edtyre

another a-10 recording



 :cheers:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jj69 on January 16, 2022, 02:22:32 PM
A fellow taper had the Left channel on his A10 fail during a show last night. Left channel is nearly dead, maybe 30db down in comparison to right channel.

The exact same thing has happened to me with not one, but two different A10s.  Left channel drops 20-30dbs, then eventually fails entirely. The problem occurs via Line In only. Both internal mics will still work. I'm now on my third A10, and it seems fine so far (fingers crossed). 

Just wondering how pervasive this issue is.  Has anyone else had the Left channel fail on your A10?

Separate question: The A10 is sold out everywhere. Anyone know a place with stock?  Probably due to COVID chip shortage...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on January 16, 2022, 02:44:07 PM
Just wondering how pervasive this issue is.  Has anyone else had the Left channel fail on your A10?
I sent my first PCM-A10 back to Sony service and they replaced it because the line in RIGHT channel was lower than the left.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jj69 on January 16, 2022, 02:58:19 PM
Just wondering how pervasive this issue is.  Has anyone else had the Left channel fail on your A10?
I sent my first PCM-A10 back to Sony service and they replaced it because the line in RIGHT channel was lower than the left.

Yes, nowvthat I look at my notes, both of my A10s had the  RIGHT channel fail. My friend's issue is with the Left. I'm hoping these units with failing channels were all early production units and Sony has since remedied the issue!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: seethreepo on January 17, 2022, 12:35:59 PM


Separate question: The A10 is sold out everywhere. Anyone know a place with stock?  Probably due to COVID chip shortage...
 

https://www.amazon.ca/Sony-Portable-Studio-Recorder-PCM-A10/dp/B07NF17GDJ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3RQII5MNHZUMT&keywords=sony+pcm-a10&qid=1642440855&sprefix=sony+pcm-A%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-1

 in stock and in Canadian dollars so cheaper for you US folks. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 17, 2022, 01:45:24 PM
Hey ed, I have a folder with 41v>bnb>R-07, did you run two decks?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Twenty8 on January 17, 2022, 08:06:12 PM
Separate question: The A10 is sold out everywhere. Anyone know a place with stock?  Probably due to COVID chip shortage...
B and H says June 13th on their website.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on February 10, 2022, 01:34:43 AM
The moose at the front gate shoulda told ya !

"Dear Customer
We did not forget about you!

You are receiving this message because you asked to be notified when the Sony PCM-A10 High-Resolution Audio Recorder (B&H # SOPCMA10) becomes available. We advised you then that we would send you interim updates. We regret the item remains unavailable."


This is worse than the Lodge cast iron habachi grill.
Grey market has it for over $300, but that also means no warranty.    >:(
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Cheesecadet on February 18, 2022, 02:11:18 PM
Anyone know where the limiter actually limits? I recorddd. Show last night and it appears I had a shelf at -3dB.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on February 19, 2022, 02:37:09 PM
Anyone know where the limiter actually limits? I recorddd. Show last night and it appears I had a shelf at -3dB.

Thoughts?
It seems to blink the limiter light when signal is within 3dB of full scale.
Shelf?
Brick walling?

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Cheesecadet on February 19, 2022, 03:36:05 PM
Anyone know where the limiter actually limits? I recorddd. Show last night and it appears I had a shelf at -3dB.

Thoughts?
It seems to blink the limiter light when signal is within 3dB of full scale.
Shelf?
Brick walling?

Hey Morst, hope you’re doing well…it’s been awhile since we’ve crossed paths.

I normally don’t run the limiter but apparently I had switched it on somehow. The deck is still new to me and I’m figuring out it’s nuances.

I was able to run some tests last night and the limiter does kick in at -3dB.  The recording sounds great so no brickwalling and the term shelf was not the right term to use…just the flattened peaks one would get when running a limiter. 

Since I had not had that happen before and normally don’t run the limiter it kinda threw me for a loop.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on February 20, 2022, 01:42:09 AM
Right on, I'm hanging in, despite not much work. Got plenty of archival stuff to catch up on.
Flat tops on peaks are not ideal, but they beat over level distortion!
I pretty much run limiter all the time for live stuff.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: lmgbtapes on February 20, 2022, 09:57:18 PM
These sure are hard to find right now. Hoping to scoop one up before a round of shows in 2 months.

Have somewhat of a wonky question for anyone- does anyone have any idea how it would go running 2 A10s at once? Can you switch between them while monitoring/adjusting them remotely? Would I need two phones? Any input appreciated.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on February 21, 2022, 04:44:15 PM
These sure are hard to find right now. Hoping to scoop one up before a round of shows in 2 months.

Have somewhat of a wonky question for anyone- does anyone have any idea how it would go running 2 A10s at once? Can you switch between them while monitoring/adjusting them remotely? Would I need two phones? Any input appreciated.
Two phones would make it easier, but it should work smoothly to just switch using bluetooth preferences.
On iPhone, you'd go to the Preferences panel, called SETTINGS and then on the middle of the first screen is the option for BLUETOOTH > and then that page lets you choose which one to pair with.
You can keep the Sony REC Remote app open and it should grab whichever one the Bluetooth is paired to.
Note that you will have to give them different names or remember top or bottom one?
... Hm
Ok I don't think you can change the device name in the PCM-A10.
Even if you got two phones, they would both show TWO bluetooth links for something called "PCM-A10" but each will have a unique identifier, so you can tell them apart.
I would think that they would stay in place in the list of bluetooth devices, and you can just choose the first or second entry from the list to go back and forth.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on March 08, 2022, 10:07:22 AM
Getting back out into the wild tonight with my A10 for the first time since the sh*tstorm hit.

Using a Baby nBox which I know Nicky said should be used mic in, pip off.

What is the correct input again?  Audio-In or Mic-In?

Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: beatkilla on March 08, 2022, 10:27:44 AM
Getting back out into the wild tonight with my A10 for the first time since the sh*tstorm hit.

Using a Baby nBox which I know Nicky said should be used mic in, pip off.

What is the correct input again?  Audio-In or Mic-In?

Thanks everyone.

 :cheers:  AUDIO IN
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on March 08, 2022, 11:18:15 AM
Getting back out into the wild tonight with my A10 for the first time since the sh*tstorm hit.

Using a Baby nBox which I know Nicky said should be used mic in, pip off.

What is the correct input again?  Audio-In or Mic-In?

Thanks everyone.

The dead giveaway if your deck somehow got set for mic in ... you will dial down your input level further and further and further ... and it'll still look too high.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: adrianf74 on March 08, 2022, 08:42:49 PM
Thanks guys. It is an acoustic trio of a UK rock band. Opener was solo acoustic and I was at 23.  It’ll be interesting to see how the headliner goes.  I’m up too close but it’ll still be good.

Had to set levels around 20-21 in the end but it didn't matter; I had the Irish Karen duo behind us yelling at the top of their lungs on anything that was said and who felt it was "okay" to sing along like a bad St. Patty's day.  That recording isn't even worth archiving but I will.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on March 16, 2022, 02:59:47 AM
Hey just a note to the thread:
I tried using an old class 4 MicroSD card at 2448, but it crashed thrice in a few hours.
I kept restarting when I noticed, but didn't think to switch to internal storage at the time.

The PCM-A10 seemed to be monitoring fine via bluetooth and the RecRemote app whenever I looked, but the end of each file before the crashes has several minutes of digital junk that I can't seem to turn into music.

I tried to import the junk as raw 1 channel, or lower bit rate, but no, it seems to be just crud.
I blame the old random card I found in my stuff and figured would work.
I doubt the card is bad, just old and slow.

it's labeled like this:

Kingston
MicroSD HC
8GB
C08G Taiwan
Kingston®
SDC4/8GB 18

should be 4MB/s which should be adequate for 24/48, but I guess not.
Recommend to test new cards in advance, and not cut it close on specs.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on March 28, 2022, 05:41:45 AM
I ran the A10 straight for Billy Strings last night and have to say I’m impressed with the built in mic quality!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on March 29, 2022, 09:58:08 AM
I ran the A10 straight for Billy Strings last night and have to say I’m impressed with the built in mic quality!

Here's the recording: https://archive.org/details/billystrings2022-03-27
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on March 29, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
I ran the A10 straight for Billy Strings last night and have to say I’m impressed with the built in mic quality!

Here's the recording: https://archive.org/details/billystrings2022-03-27

Nice! Yeah, the A10 internal mics are decidedly not bad if they're all you have to work with. Now all I need is a shirt pocket that's angled horizontally...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vwmule on March 29, 2022, 10:52:39 AM
Also helped by the style of music, nothing too loud and stressful.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: detroit lightning on March 29, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
This sounds nice!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on March 29, 2022, 12:03:02 PM
Also helped by the style of music, nothing too loud and stressful.

The recording level was on 1 and peaked at -3 which was a little stressful. I engaged the limiters but I'm not sure if they kicked in at all.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on March 29, 2022, 12:26:57 PM
The recording level was on 1 and peaked at -3 which was a little stressful. I engaged the limiters but I'm not sure if they kicked in at all.  :shrug:

Does that remove volume or take sound off the file?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on March 30, 2022, 12:19:55 PM
I ran the A10 straight for Billy Strings last night and have to say I’m impressed with the built in mic quality!

Here's the recording: https://archive.org/details/billystrings2022-03-27

Maybe a dumb question, but how do you have the recorder mounted for this? Were you using a tripod?

This came out of pretty nice. Just trying to wrap my head around the folks that  >:D with handhelds.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on March 30, 2022, 12:23:32 PM
I ran the A10 straight for Billy Strings last night and have to say I’m impressed with the built in mic quality!

Here's the recording: https://archive.org/details/billystrings2022-03-27

Maybe a dumb question, but how do you have the recorder mounted for this? Were you using a tripod?

This came out of pretty nice. Just trying to wrap my head around the folks that  >:D with handhelds.

I just stuck it on the balcony ledge with the mic capsules in "wide stereo" position
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on April 17, 2022, 04:51:00 PM
Is there every a time when recording with "MIC-IN" would be preferable to "audio in"? Is it more sensitive? I recorded a quieter show yesterday with my a10, using only a battery box/audio-in and had to have my input level at the max, 30. Of course it's very noisy, would using MIC-IN resulted in a less noisy recording?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: lmgbtapes on May 03, 2022, 03:03:59 PM
4 shows deep taping with 2 A10s. One for SBD and one for my mics on stage. Remote level monitoring is a godsend. Bluetooth has been kinda spotty when I'm constantly switching between units but I've always been able to hit it eventually turning Bluetooth on and off on phone. And once it's connected it has an extremely impressive range. I've generally been able (with some work reattempting a bunch) to connect to the SBD units at the back of the room from front row at sold out clubs. Simply stunned the signal's getting around all those bodies.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on May 10, 2022, 09:58:44 PM
Anyone have experience getting soundboard feeds on the PCM-A10? My Roland r07 needs attenuation/pads or else the soundboard feed clips - do I need those for the Sony as well?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on May 12, 2022, 01:30:39 AM
Anyone have experience getting soundboard feeds on the PCM-A10? My Roland r07 needs attenuation/pads or else the soundboard feed clips - do I need those for the Sony as well?
PCM M-10 can take 2 volts on the inputs. Rock that stuff.
If the level knob is over 7 or 8 then the input is too low
if the level knob is UNDER 1 then the input is too hot.
Sweet spot on Sony is usually 3-4 out of 10 on the input.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-m10.htm
3.5mm Sockets (2)
Quote
Stereo mic input (powered): 22k Ω or 3.9 k Ω depending on where you read it, 0.9 mV minimum, 2.5 mV rated.
Stereo LINE input: 22 kΩ, 500 mV minimum, 2 V rated.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: lmgbtapes on May 13, 2022, 06:47:38 PM
Anyone have experience getting soundboard feeds on the PCM-A10? My Roland r07 needs attenuation/pads or else the soundboard feed clips - do I need those for the Sony as well?

7 different boards at 7 different clubs for rock shows (the mountain goats) no issues at all. One came close to clipping, but I am sure I could have just asked engineer to turn down the heat a tiny bit if absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on May 14, 2022, 01:59:40 PM
Anyone have experience getting soundboard feeds on the PCM-A10? My Roland r07 needs attenuation/pads or else the soundboard feed clips - do I need those for the Sony as well?
PCM M-10 can take 2 volts on the inputs. Rock that stuff.
If the level knob is over 7 or 8 then the input is too low
if the level knob is UNDER 1 then the input is too hot.
Sweet spot on Sony is usually 3-4 out of 10 on the input.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-m10.htm
3.5mm Sockets (2)
Quote
Stereo mic input (powered): 22k Ω or 3.9 k Ω depending on where you read it, 0.9 mV minimum, 2.5 mV rated.
Stereo LINE input: 22 kΩ, 500 mV minimum, 2 V rated.
Thanks, but to clarify, I'm asking about the a10, not the m10, if it makes any difference.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on May 14, 2022, 07:27:25 PM
Good call. This is the A10 thread
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on May 15, 2022, 06:02:43 PM
Thanks, but to clarify, I'm asking about the a10, not the m10, if it makes any difference.
OOPS yes it probably does, let me find out.
Using the built in mics and limiter I find that a level setting of 6 works well on the PCM-A10, yes, the actual A 10 with an A.


ok I have some EXCELLENT news to report.
A-10 also takes 2 volts. Hot stuff.


https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684402.html (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684402.html)

Technical Specifications >
Input jack (stereo mini-jack)
   
MIC IN (Plug-in-power supported)
Input impedance: approx. 3.9 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2.5 mV
Minimum input level: approx. 1 mV

Audio IN
Input impedance: approx. 4.7 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2 V   <----- THIS RIGHT HERE!
Minimum input level: approx. 18 mV
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on May 16, 2022, 12:15:05 AM
Thanks, but to clarify, I'm asking about the a10, not the m10, if it makes any difference.
OOPS yes it probably does, let me find out.
Using the built in mics and limiter I find that a level setting of 6 works well on the PCM-A10, yes, the actual A 10 with an A.


ok I have some EXCELLENT news to report.
A-10 also takes 2 volts. Hot stuff.


https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684402.html (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684402.html)

Technical Specifications >
Input jack (stereo mini-jack)
   
MIC IN (Plug-in-power supported)
Input impedance: approx. 3.9 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2.5 mV
Minimum input level: approx. 1 mV

Audio IN
Input impedance: approx. 4.7 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2 V   <----- THIS RIGHT HERE!
Minimum input level: approx. 18 mV

Thank you. You're much better at finding specs than I am.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: jj69 on May 16, 2022, 12:41:40 AM
So my THIRD Sony PCM-A10 is now DEAD. 

Well, the RIGHT channel is nearly dead.   I recorded a show tonight using external cardioid mics > 12V battery box > PCM-A10 line input.  I noticed that my right channel gain was significantly lower than my left channel.  To be precise, it's exactly 18.5 db lower!  Using the same mics and battery box, but swapping in my Roland R-07 instead of the Sony, I round that the gain is equal in both channels.  So it's definitely the A10 and not the mics or battery box.  I recorded a show a couple of weeks back and the right channel was 8db down.  I recorded a couple of shows in between with no issues, so I hoped it was an anomaly.  Apparently not.  It will be completely dead in a couple of weeks, I'm sure. 

I know that because this is EXACTLY what happened with my two previous PCM-A10's.  Each of them succumbed to failure of the RIGHT channel.  The failure is through the Line Input only.  the internal mics still work if you care to use them.  As absurd as this is, another local taper has been through exactly the same experience.  He too has had exactly THREE Sony PCM-A10s fail in exactly the same manner, over approximately the same length of time. 

Has anyone else here experienced this issue?  I'm amazed there aren't dozens of A10 owners here complaining about it.  Does anyone know if it's possible to repair the problem?  Any idea what could be the cause?  Is it possible the 12V battery box is too much for the line input to handle?  That's the best guess I can come up with other than poor build quality. 

I was able to exchange my first two PCM-A10 units for a replacement, but that's impossible now since there are no A10's available, most likely due to the chip shortage.  I guess it's back to the larger, quirky Roland R-07 for now...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on May 16, 2022, 07:25:53 AM
Maybe that's why there are none available - maybe it's in essence been withdrawn due to this issue?? Pure speculation of course.  I'll try to test mine in the next 24 hours.  It's actually rarely been used so if it does have a problem, it's not due to wear and tear, it'll be a natural death...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on May 16, 2022, 08:38:11 AM

Has anyone else here experienced this issue?  I'm amazed there aren't dozens of A10 owners here complaining about it.  Does anyone know if it's possible to repair the problem?  Any idea what could be the cause?  Is it possible the 12V battery box is too much for the line input to handle?  That's the best guess I can come up with other than poor build quality. 


Levels on mine are all good, almost 2.5 years after I bought it. (I use a 9V battery box, FWIW.)

I take it Sony didn't offer any explanation when you returned the first two?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on May 16, 2022, 09:45:02 AM

Has anyone else here experienced this issue?  I'm amazed there aren't dozens of A10 owners here complaining about it.  Does anyone know if it's possible to repair the problem?  Any idea what could be the cause?  Is it possible the 12V battery box is too much for the line input to handle?  That's the best guess I can come up with other than poor build quality. 


Levels on mine are all good, almost 2.5 years after I bought it. (I use a 9V battery box, FWIW.)

Everything you said (to include 9v BB) is the same for me; except it's only been a year and half since I bought my A10.  I average around two shows a week (always  >:D ) and have put a lot of hours on it.

If there is an issue with build quality, I feel fortunate to have gotten one doesn't suffer from that (fingers crossed - at least not yet!).
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on May 17, 2022, 02:29:21 AM
I just charged mine up and gave it a quick test - mainly using Roland in-ear binaurals as the source - it's working just fine, I am happy to report.  But in effect, it's virtually new.

Things I discovered - the Roland binaurals do give a wider frequency response than the built in mics, though the built in mics don't sound unpleasant or anything - just a bit lacking.  (Tesit track on Tannoy monitors sitting close was Clapton's "River of Tears" which I always use for such tests).  However, stereo imaging from the built-in mics was radically better when the mics are in the pointing-outward position rather than the crossed position   They came quite close to the image from the Rolands in terms of stereo width.  I guess in a way that's to be expected but I didn't think the difference would be so marked.  I won't use it again in the crossed position!

It's a neat little device, isn't it.  Must use it more. Date of last file on there is 7 March 2021.... And it makes the ultimate lightweight rig with in-ear binaurals.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on May 17, 2022, 03:46:33 PM
  I won't use it again in the crossed position!

Wow! Now I gotta check!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on May 19, 2022, 07:30:04 AM
I regularly >:D audio and video at the same time.  Consequently, I move my body and arms around a lot more than most tapers.  I found that my A10, that I keep in an inside vest/coat pocket, was getting jostled around and that was causing intermittent connection problems.  Three or four shows back, I decided to use some velcro to lockdown the plug input so that it wouldn't be as susceptible to getting jostled.  I have had zero issues since I did this.  I use the app on my phone to control the A10, so even though the power button and screen are covered up by velcro, it isn't a problem.

(https://i.imgur.com/4Upnxi1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on May 21, 2022, 01:01:53 PM
  I won't use it again in the crossed position!

Wow! Now I gotta check!
I checked. I am so glad Ozpeter posted this.
I won't use it again in the crossed position!
Crossed sounds dead in the headphones compared to spread.
A little arrival time difference helps to magnify spacial cues, especially since the distance is so much less than my own inter-aural distance (the distance between my ears).
It's like in 3-d photography with stereo pairs, where taking the frames from approximately one inter-ocular distance yields realistic "playback" with a stereoscope viewer, but using a very small distance magnifies perspectives. See quote from videomaker website:

from https://www.videomaker.com/article/14912-shooting-for-3d/
Quote
In order for your footage to best simulate what viewers would see with their own eyes, it’s important to match the human interocular distance as closely as possible. This means that the distance between the centers of your camera lenses should be approximately 2.5″.
Ignoring the interocular distance can result in some surprising and even unpleasant effects. Move the cameras too far apart, and the world will look like it’s been miniaturized. Move them too close together, and suddenly the smallest object appears gigantic. 2.5″
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on May 21, 2022, 08:55:30 PM
It's just possible that you and I were the only people unware of how much better it sounds using spread mics, but still, clearly worth mentioning.  Purely in terms of stereo image, I think the A10 (in the spread configuration) is streets ahead of the M10 which relies on slightly spaced omnis for stereo - which is doomed to failure.  IMHO.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vanark on May 21, 2022, 09:49:14 PM
I don't believe in crossed mics for anything, so not a surprise to me. X-Y is about the least desirable configuration I can think of. I know the A-10 mics are not X-Y, but close enough for me to steer clear if I ever ran the internal for anything other than recording the Thanksgiving dinner conversation.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on May 22, 2022, 05:00:36 AM
I don't believe in crossed mics for anything, so not a surprise to me. X-Y is about the least desirable configuration I can think of. I know the A-10 mics are not X-Y, but close enough for me to steer clear if I ever ran the internal for anything other than recording the Thanksgiving dinner conversation.
What if I wanted to record the chirps of a single bird? Just get the sound of the song itself for identification purposes, not to capture any particular natural soundscape?
Would the tightly spaced (crossed) pair eliminate any undesirable location cues in such a use?
 
(Now I am trying to think of a reason to use the mics pointing in!?!  :o   )
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on May 22, 2022, 09:50:26 PM
Feeling like taking a trip to Tokyo soon...

"
Dear Customer
We did not forget about you!

You are receiving this message because you asked to be notified when the Sony PCM-A10 High-Resolution Audio Recorder (B&H # SOPCMA10) becomes available. We advised you then that we would send you interim updates. We regret the item remains unavailable "
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on May 23, 2022, 09:56:33 AM
Well, record both mics pointing forward - that too is an option.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on May 23, 2022, 11:43:38 AM
Feeling like taking a trip to Tokyo soon...

Akihabara?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: checht on May 23, 2022, 12:12:02 PM
Feeling like taking a trip to Tokyo soon...

Akihabara?
That's how we got our first DAT field recorder. A friend's dad worked for Delta, so he flew for us...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on May 23, 2022, 01:57:59 PM
Feeling like taking a trip to Tokyo soon...

Akihabara?
That's how we got our first DAT field recorder. A friend's dad worked for Delta, so he flew for us...

I lived/worked in Tokyo for three years back in the '90s and spent a lot of time at Akihabara. ;D
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on May 23, 2022, 05:21:51 PM
Feeling like taking a trip to Tokyo soon...

Akihabara?

Is Team nVidia there?


(https://live.staticflickr.com/4041/4662585508_be83cf4918_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on May 28, 2022, 04:10:23 PM
I was open taping Belle & Sebastian FOB last night with my primary rig being nakamichi cm-300s, and figured I'd run the a10 internals in wide mode just for the hell of it.

Acoustics were pretty bad where I was at, probably my least favorite pull in the past couple years, but thought maybe the comparison may be of value to someone.

A10:
https://soundcloud.com/roffels/a10?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Nakamichi:
https://soundcloud.com/roffels/nakamichi?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on May 28, 2022, 06:06:00 PM
^ Thanks for the chance to listen to it.
Clearly liking the CM-300s for rejection and slight mid-boost
Which may be in part from all those years of listening to Nak recordings

BTW...
Does anyone know if the imports from China, Singapore, and the Philippines are legit Sony product ?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on May 29, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
Interesting comparison - in terms of stereo image I think the A10 internals seem more focussed in the centre while retaining full width for audience sounds - the nakamichi cm-300s sound slightly undefined in the centre - always hard to turn sounds into words of course!  I'd say you have omni capsules on the CM-300s  rather than cardioid?   Overall, I'd rate the A10 internals, in this example, as "no disaster".
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on May 29, 2022, 11:06:02 AM
Interesting comparison - in terms of stereo image I think the A10 internals seem more focussed in the centre while retaining full width for audience sounds - the nakamichi cm-300s sound slightly undefined in the centre - always hard to turn sounds into words of course!  I'd say you have omni capsules on the CM-300s  rather than cardioid?   Overall, I'd rate the A10 internals, in this example, as "no disaster".

The naks were cards. I'm not happy with either set, curious to hear how the a10 performs in a better location.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on May 29, 2022, 11:28:37 AM
Interesting comparison - in terms of stereo image I think the A10 internals seem more focussed in the centre while retaining full width for audience sounds - the nakamichi cm-300s sound slightly undefined in the centre - always hard to turn sounds into words of course!  I'd say you have omni capsules on the CM-300s  rather than cardioid?   Overall, I'd rate the A10 internals, in this example, as "no disaster".

The naks were cards. I'm not happy with either set, curious to hear how the a10 performs in a better location.

I posted this a few months ago, but I'm pretty pleased with the A10's internal mic performance in the limited use I've had with it. I threw it up on the edge of the balcony and this was the result (mics pointed out, away from each other):

https://archive.org/details/billystrings2022-03-27

It's a little tinny sounding to me, but surprisingly good IMO.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on May 29, 2022, 07:55:32 PM
Interesting comparison - in terms of stereo image I think the A10 internals seem more focussed in the centre while retaining full width for audience sounds - the nakamichi cm-300s sound slightly undefined in the centre - always hard to turn sounds into words of course!  I'd say you have omni capsules on the CM-300s  rather than cardioid?   Overall, I'd rate the A10 internals, in this example, as "no disaster".

The naks were cards. I'm not happy with either set, curious to hear how the a10 performs in a better location.

I posted this a few months ago, but I'm pretty pleased with the A10's internal mic performance in the limited use I've had with it. I threw it up on the edge of the balcony and this was the result (mics pointed out, away from each other):

https://archive.org/details/billystrings2022-03-27

It's a little tinny sounding to me, but surprisingly good IMO.

Yeah, that's a good sounding tape. I'm curious how easy it is to distort the mics on these.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: RyanJ on May 30, 2022, 07:46:01 AM
Yeah, that's a good sounding tape. I'm curious how easy it is to distort the mics on these.

I got some additions to the NIN Live Archive that were done with the internals of an A10. I honestly was going to shrug them off and just thought they'd be like every other internal mic recording I've heard from other recorders. Just blown out and unlistenable. I used to have this mentality that if you're gonna tape, at least go all out and get some external mics. I was wrong. I even told the taper that and I am VERY surprised how well the internals on the A10 are. They handle SPLs really good. The first link they recorded from the middle of the pit which was very small and very close to the sound source. The bass was intense that close at the show and the A10s mics handled them very well. Way better than my Schoeps, IMO. The other shows below the sound was just as loud, if not louder and I believe the taper was near the board for all the rest. Links provided have 2 minute sample with the source.

In conclusion, big fan of the A10 internals. Maybe just as good as the Sony ECM-717 mic.

Source 4: https://ninlive.com/shows/2022/20220428.html
Source 5: https://ninlive.com/shows/2022/20220430.html
Source 4: https://ninlive.com/shows/2022/20220501.html
Source 3: https://ninlive.com/shows/2022/20220522.html
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on May 30, 2022, 10:12:20 AM
The bass on the BillyStrings recording has plenty of bottom end to my ear.  Overall, a perfectly good recording imho. You'd probably have to go to some lengths to have improved on that.  And you're always at the mercy of the PA quality, which can stuff up the sound long before it reaches your internal or external mics!

The samples posted by RyanJ were (once I'd worked out which link to play - I'm getting gaga with old age) were to me a bit less impressive because there was very little stereo image happening, I thought - I doubt whether the mics were in the wide-apart position - but the frequency response was wider than you would somehow expect.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: voodoostrat on May 31, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
A10’s back in stock at B&H. Better hurry.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dactylus on May 31, 2022, 02:18:08 PM
A10’s back in stock at B&H. Better hurry.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1447756-REG/sony_pcm_a10_high_resolution_audio_recorder.html
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on May 31, 2022, 06:20:42 PM
A10’s back in stock at B&H. Better hurry.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1447756-REG/sony_pcm_a10_high_resolution_audio_recorder.html

Thank you, brother !
I have my low-pro, on-the-go setup again
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on June 01, 2022, 03:34:45 AM
I am minded to buy a dozen, to store pending the day when they run out again and can be sold at a fat profit.  But (a) I'm too nice a guy and (b), too broke (possibly because of (a)!)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 01, 2022, 04:35:54 AM
I did just buy a second one for myself, for when I want to run both mics and a board feed and monitor them remotely. (Has anyone here run two A10s via bluetooth on the same phone? I’m guessing I would want to rename one to tell them apart…)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on June 01, 2022, 04:53:16 AM
(Has anyone here run two A10s via bluetooth on the same phone? I’m guessing I would want to rename one to tell them apart…)
I renamed them.
It takes some time to switch between the two.
It's not instantaneous.

Maybe someone will be interested.
Not a planned track when I was already evacuated.
Wide stereo internal mic, recorder just lies on the ground, distance of about 30 meters from the church.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UqpdY82QSopCAq99KYaIDybuucsReaVQ/view?usp=sharing
it will be deleted in a few days

(https://aif-s3.aif.ru/images/005/950/574710ade4303d2b5b7d3a1afdc453b5.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dactylus on June 01, 2022, 08:56:08 AM

^
Sounds very nice!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on June 01, 2022, 11:04:31 PM

^
Sounds very nice!

Seconded!  What a remarkable sound - thanks for sharing that.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: fransb on June 02, 2022, 03:22:25 PM
@hipporu Where is this beautiful church situated? Somewhere in the east of Europe? The recording of the church bells sounds very nice btw.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on June 02, 2022, 04:44:54 PM
Thanks, glad you liked it.
The bell-ringer nun Lyuba, the bell-ringer Andrei rang at the children's belfry :)
Marfo-Mariinsky Convent of Mercy
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%84%D0%BE-%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C
This is Russia, Moscow, city center, 15 minutes walk from my house.
My position
(https://forum.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/030681/thm/30681413_28977.jpg)
https://www.mmom.ru/mmom/istoriya-obiteli/
Unfortunately not in English, use google translation please.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on June 02, 2022, 05:58:13 PM
Runs to car, looks at the card with Icon hanging from rearview mirror, a gift from a departed friend, and sees the face on that church wall...
He passed during COVID quarantines, and his Panikhida was a week ago.

In this area it is probably is a more surprising coincidence than where you are.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on June 03, 2022, 01:45:50 AM
Runs to car, looks at the card with Icon hanging from rearview mirror, a gift from a departed friend, and sees the face on that church wall...
He passed during COVID quarantines, and his Panikhida was a week ago.

In this area it is probably is a more surprising coincidence than where you are.
Very sad...

COVID strange time.
Many of my friends have died, many new friends and interesting people have appeared...
I wanted to make my own recording of bells for 10 years, it happened during COVID, we didn’t go anywhere during this time of festivals, but a lot of work was lost...

Coming back to the A10, it was purchased in COVID, it came in handy as a backup, it found its place in the pocket for every day for interesting sounds, I don't like sony, but I like the A10 :)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on June 03, 2022, 09:45:26 AM
My condolences, Hipporu, for the loss of your friends. I am heartened to read that you have found some positives in the situation, even though these cannot compensate for the negatives.  The sound of bells can mean so much - from their tolling at a funeral to their pealing at a wedding - they are perhaps an often overlooked element in the expression of emotion through sound.  You captured these very well.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: lmgbtapes on June 03, 2022, 01:20:49 PM
I did just buy a second one for myself, for when I want to run both mics and a board feed and monitor them remotely. (Has anyone here run two A10s via bluetooth on the same phone? I’m guessing I would want to rename one to tell them apart…)

Yes, had minimal issues overall, galaxy s10+. Can be a pain switching between the two (need to turn bluetooth off and on, airplane mode off and on, hold phone in wacky positions, whatever ritual of choice to be able to connect at times, but this was me connecting to SBD A10 while I was in the front row at medium sized clubs, so I was surprised I was able to reconnect at all at that point)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rigpimp on June 03, 2022, 05:31:14 PM
According to FedEx my plastic A10 baby is delivered today.  Yes, I went through and pre-read all previous pages and pages of posts.  Happy to add this to my  >:D stable, may it serve me well.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on June 03, 2022, 06:39:44 PM
According to FedEx my plastic A10 baby is delivered today.  Yes, I went through and pre-read all previous pages and pages of posts.  Happy to add this to my  >:D stable, may it serve me well.

Pull sick tape !
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on June 04, 2022, 02:20:52 AM
Ozpeter, Thank you.
You have written very well and beautifully.

The internal microphones A10 may not be perfect, but they convey the sound very realistically. I discovered this when I played with him for the first time at the table at home, something was noisy outside the window, the computer played music, something rattled in the kitchen, something was said by a girl passing by ... when I listened to the recording after, I always wanted to turn around or reply.
What the A10 needs is a 10-20 dB attenuator. for some situations.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 06, 2022, 02:08:40 PM
(Has anyone here run two A10s via bluetooth on the same phone? I’m guessing I would want to rename one to tell them apart…)
I renamed them.

Can someone give me a hint as to how to rename an A10? I've been though all the menu settings and the manual, and I'm still stumped.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on June 06, 2022, 02:17:23 PM
(Has anyone here run two A10s via bluetooth on the same phone? I’m guessing I would want to rename one to tell them apart…)
I renamed them.

Can someone give me a hint as to how to rename an A10? I've been though all the menu settings and the manual, and I'm still stumped.

Maybe you have to do that within the app on your phone?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on June 06, 2022, 02:34:32 PM
Can someone give me a hint as to how to rename an A10? I've been though all the menu settings and the manual, and I'm still stumped.
It's a Sony (с)

turn on bt on a-10 and phone
launch the application
establish a connection with the phone
upper left corner of the screen - select device
device menu - edit
repeat for second recorder
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 06, 2022, 03:57:35 PM

turn on bt on a-10 and phone
launch the application
establish a connection with the phone

So far, so good!

upper left corner of the screen - select device
device menu - edit

I don't have a "select device" in the upper left of my screen, nor do I have an "edit" in the device menu. Maybe this only works this way on Androids?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on June 06, 2022, 04:10:54 PM
I don't have a "select device" in the upper left of my screen, nor do I have an "edit" in the device menu. Maybe this only works this way on Androids?
Maybe...
I have an android.
The upper left corner is the name of the device and the down arrow, poke your finger into it. After it, the following recorder selection menu opens.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on June 06, 2022, 06:51:32 PM

turn on bt on a-10 and phone
launch the application
establish a connection with the phone

So far, so good!

upper left corner of the screen - select device
device menu - edit

I don't have a "select device" in the upper left of my screen, nor do I have an "edit" in the device menu. Maybe this only works this way on Androids?

Got your Bluetooth on and paired to A10 ?
A10 default passkey is four or five zeros, I think...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: gmm6797 on June 06, 2022, 07:34:20 PM
FWIW, when I cant get the plain bluetooth to pair up, I do NFC, and that has worked 100% of the time for me
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 06, 2022, 08:52:45 PM
I can get the A10 to pair up just fine. I'm trying to figure out how to change the name so that if I have two running at once, my iPhone app doesn't list them both as "PCM-A10."
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on June 07, 2022, 03:37:49 AM
A10 rename in pictures

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14hUYynw_UMviwjMIqmSzTMS9O6GhEaGs?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 07, 2022, 05:39:38 AM
A10 rename in pictures

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14hUYynw_UMviwjMIqmSzTMS9O6GhEaGs?usp=sharing

Thanks, but the iPhone Rec Remote app doesn't have that pulldown menu next to the device name.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on June 07, 2022, 05:55:30 AM
Thanks, but the iPhone Rec Remote app doesn't have that pulldown menu next to the device name.
Maybe try another way...
Do not turn on the recorder
Launch BT and app on phone
It will not find the recorder and will offer to switch to another device
From there, you can also get to the recorder properties menu
but it's all android...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 07, 2022, 06:47:32 AM
Let me try asking this another way: Has anyone with an iPhone found a way to rename their PCM-A10?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ol' dirty taper on June 07, 2022, 12:30:10 PM
Let me try asking this another way: Has anyone with an iPhone found a way to rename their PCM-A10?

Have you checked your app is up to date? On android I am on version 3.2.0 and the arrow is there to click.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: yug du nord on June 07, 2022, 02:19:30 PM
Let me try asking this another way: Has anyone with an iPhone found a way to rename their PCM-A10?

Android yes.
iPhone no.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 07, 2022, 05:04:59 PM
Let me try asking this another way: Has anyone with an iPhone found a way to rename their PCM-A10?

Android yes.
iPhone no.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: neutrino on June 08, 2022, 07:18:17 PM
Let me try asking this another way: Has anyone with an iPhone found a way to rename their PCM-A10?

Go to your bluetooth setting and tap the "info" button and a screen comes up with the name of the device. Tap on "name" and rename the device.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 08, 2022, 07:51:49 PM
Let me try asking this another way: Has anyone with an iPhone found a way to rename their PCM-A10?

Go to your bluetooth setting and tap the "info" button and a screen comes up with the name of the device. Tap on "name" and rename the device.

That worked! Thanks so much, neutrino.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: yug du nord on June 08, 2022, 07:59:54 PM
Let me try asking this another way: Has anyone with an iPhone found a way to rename their PCM-A10?

Go to your bluetooth setting and tap the "info" button and a screen comes up with the name of the device. Tap on "name" and rename the device.

That worked! Thanks so much, neutrino.

Well done.. thanks!!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: neutrino on June 10, 2022, 05:33:11 PM
In case anyone was wondering what the main board of the A10 looks like, here you go. Here's a pic of the mic assembly removed as well.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rigpimp on June 10, 2022, 05:53:52 PM
I saw the pic of the pair of solder pads for each mic and it looked relatively straightforward.  Can you post the top view after re-assembly?  I am curious as to the gap left behind. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: neutrino on June 10, 2022, 08:52:30 PM
I saw the pic of the pair of solder pads for each mic and it looked relatively straightforward.  Can you post the top view after re-assembly?  I am curious as to the gap left behind.

Don’t have one. The mics were only removed temporarily to gain full access to the main board.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rigpimp on June 12, 2022, 03:50:09 PM
No problems running 24/96 on this recorder right?  If not I will drop it down to 24/48.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on June 12, 2022, 06:32:51 PM
No problems running 24/96 on this recorder right?  If not I will drop it down to 24/48.

I haven't had any issues.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on June 12, 2022, 07:34:33 PM
No problems running 24/96 on this recorder right?  If not I will drop it down to 24/48.
96 fills the memory twice as fast, but works fine on a card with proper speed rating, since that's probably what you mean!?!!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rigpimp on June 13, 2022, 12:58:53 AM
I'm coming from an M10 which puked on 24/96.  I rolled the dice and did it with the A10 and it was flawless.  Maiden voyage today and it made a recording of Too Short and Tower of Power

Controlling levels with an app is a game changer and it linked to our car via Bluetooth so we could listen again on the way home. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Since85 on June 13, 2022, 11:50:37 AM
I'm coming from an M10 which puked on 24/96.  I rolled the dice and did it with the A10 and it was flawless.  Maiden voyage today and it made a recording of Too Short and Tower of Power

Controlling levels with an app is a game changer and it linked to our car via Bluetooth so we could listen again on the way home.

Any noticeable difference in sound quality (as a line in unit) vs. other recorders in your assessment?
Would you use this unit in your most mission critical recordings? (assuming no issues getting gear into a venue)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 13, 2022, 12:15:05 PM

Any noticeable difference in sound quality (as a line in unit) vs. other recorders in your assessment?
Would you use this unit in your most mission critical recordings? (assuming no issues getting gear into a venue)

I've noticed zero difference in sound quality on the A10 vs the M10 using mics through line in.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rigpimp on June 13, 2022, 01:01:48 PM
I'm coming from an M10 which puked on 24/96.  I rolled the dice and did it with the A10 and it was flawless.  Maiden voyage today and it made a recording of Too Short and Tower of Power

Controlling levels with an app is a game changer and it linked to our car via Bluetooth so we could listen again on the way home.

Any noticeable difference in sound quality (as a line in unit) vs. other recorders in your assessment?
Would you use this unit in your most mission critical recordings? (assuming no issues getting gear into a venue)

I brought my M10 but knowing I was standing next to another taper I chose to roll the dice and use the A10.  The A10 worked great and I notice no difference in fidelity compared to the M10.  I would not hesitate to use it for mission-critical events.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: zeus163 on June 21, 2022, 06:18:01 PM
I just upgraded to the 13 Pro today and couldn't get my A10 to connect. I knew that I had read something on here about it and found the post. On the A10, I kept trying to add an Audio Device and nothing would work. After reading this post, I played with some settings and what did work for me was going into Bluetooth>REC Remote. There I saw my old device in the Manage Added Devices. I decided to try the Add Device (Pairing) from there and lo and behold, the bluetooth device was finally recognized on my phone and I'm all good to go. Now, I didn't look up the A10 directions, so maybe this is how it is supposed to be done anyway, but like I said, I was trying to pair the device from the Audio Device menu. Which was wrong.

Just thought I'd add to this.

IMPORTANT FOR iPHONE 13 USERS

I've had my A10 for one year and it's been my main recording deck since the day I got it (previous main deck was an Edirol R-07).  I used my iPhone 12 Pro Max when I first got the A10, and I've been loving the ease with which I can control the recording with an app on my phone.  A week ago, I got an iPhone 13 Pro Max (w/ 1TB storage).  And that's when this conundrum began ... no matter what I did, I could not get the iPhone 13 to recognize (and pair with) the A10.  I tried and tried and tried ... but no dice.  The only saving grace was that the iPhone 12 / A10 combo has always worked just fine, so I was still able to >:D two shows last week while using the A10 app on my iPhone.  But I only have two weeks from receipt of the iPhone 13 to return the iPhone 12 and get the guaranteed refund for the trade-in.  I chatted with Apple support via text at their webpage ... not much help.  I drove over to a Best Buy and found a sharp young guy in the smart phone section and he actually gave it a really good effort (especially considering I didn't buy the phone or recorder from Best Buy so I was just a random guy walking in off the street asking for service).  After that, I finally decided I had to go big, so I made an appointment at the nearest Apple Store, which is an hour drive away.  I don't go there often, so I don't know what's normal, but I was seen after waiting 5 minutes or so.  The person who assisted me was a young lady named Grace, probably in her mid-late 20s.  She dove right into it - had my iPhone 12, iPhone 13 and A10 layed out along with a few other devices of her own and also had the A10 manual pulled up on her iPad.  For a good half hour she poked around through the iPhone menus, ran diagnostics, did various other testing, went to the backroom a couple of times ... but no bueno.  She called her boss Sasha over and he worked on it for five minutes or so.  He had some really insightful ideas for fixes ... but even he couldn't solve this.  Sasha got called away to another customer and Grace went back at it.  Around 45 minutes in - after reading parts of the A10 manual - Grace started taking a hard look at the menus in the A10; in particular, the Bluetooth menu.  And then she found something and BANG - just like that - problem solved.  So the smart thing for me at that point would have been to ask Grace exactly what she had just found that fixed the problem.  But I was super happy to finally get this saga done with and this was 50 minutes into the session; and I could tell Grace needed a break.  So I just thanked her and left.  Just as she was about to solve the problem, however, I do remember her saying she was looking at the bluetooth settings in the A10 and it looked like it was set to send data out to a device like a bluetooth speaker, as opposed to being set to receive data from a recording rig.  So after it was all said and done ... there is still that mystery out there ... if the bluetooth settings in the A10 were the problem (with the iPhone 13), for the last year, why (how?) did the A10 work just fine with the iPhone 12?  Grace was equally baffled by this question.

TL;DR:  If you upgrade an iPhone that works properly with the A10 app, but your new iPhone doesn't connect over bluetooth with the A10 app, the solution is probably in the A10's bluetooth menu.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on June 21, 2022, 06:57:07 PM
I just upgraded to the 13 Pro today and couldn't get my A10 to connect. I knew that I had read something on here about it and found the post. On the A10, I kept trying to add an Audio Device and nothing would work. After reading this post, I played with some settings and what did work for me was going into Bluetooth>REC Remote. There I saw my old device in the Manage Added Devices. I decided to try the Add Device (Pairing) from there and lo and behold, the bluetooth device was finally recognized on my phone and I'm all good to go. Now, I didn't look up the A10 directions, so maybe this is how it is supposed to be done anyway, but like I said, I was trying to pair the device from the Audio Device menu. Which was wrong.

Just thought I'd add to this.

IMPORTANT FOR iPHONE 13 USERS

I've had my A10 for one year and it's been my main recording deck since the day I got it (previous main deck was an Edirol R-07).  I used my iPhone 12 Pro Max when I first got the A10, and I've been loving the ease with which I can control the recording with an app on my phone.  A week ago, I got an iPhone 13 Pro Max (w/ 1TB storage).  And that's when this conundrum began ... no matter what I did, I could not get the iPhone 13 to recognize (and pair with) the A10.  I tried and tried and tried ... but no dice.  The only saving grace was that the iPhone 12 / A10 combo has always worked just fine, so I was still able to >:D two shows last week while using the A10 app on my iPhone.  But I only have two weeks from receipt of the iPhone 13 to return the iPhone 12 and get the guaranteed refund for the trade-in.  I chatted with Apple support via text at their webpage ... not much help.  I drove over to a Best Buy and found a sharp young guy in the smart phone section and he actually gave it a really good effort (especially considering I didn't buy the phone or recorder from Best Buy so I was just a random guy walking in off the street asking for service).  After that, I finally decided I had to go big, so I made an appointment at the nearest Apple Store, which is an hour drive away.  I don't go there often, so I don't know what's normal, but I was seen after waiting 5 minutes or so.  The person who assisted me was a young lady named Grace, probably in her mid-late 20s.  She dove right into it - had my iPhone 12, iPhone 13 and A10 layed out along with a few other devices of her own and also had the A10 manual pulled up on her iPad.  For a good half hour she poked around through the iPhone menus, ran diagnostics, did various other testing, went to the backroom a couple of times ... but no bueno.  She called her boss Sasha over and he worked on it for five minutes or so.  He had some really insightful ideas for fixes ... but even he couldn't solve this.  Sasha got called away to another customer and Grace went back at it.  Around 45 minutes in - after reading parts of the A10 manual - Grace started taking a hard look at the menus in the A10; in particular, the Bluetooth menu.  And then she found something and BANG - just like that - problem solved.  So the smart thing for me at that point would have been to ask Grace exactly what she had just found that fixed the problem.  But I was super happy to finally get this saga done with and this was 50 minutes into the session; and I could tell Grace needed a break.  So I just thanked her and left.  Just as she was about to solve the problem, however, I do remember her saying she was looking at the bluetooth settings in the A10 and it looked like it was set to send data out to a device like a bluetooth speaker, as opposed to being set to receive data from a recording rig.  So after it was all said and done ... there is still that mystery out there ... if the bluetooth settings in the A10 were the problem (with the iPhone 13), for the last year, why (how?) did the A10 work just fine with the iPhone 12?  Grace was equally baffled by this question.

TL;DR:  If you upgrade an iPhone that works properly with the A10 app, but your new iPhone doesn't connect over bluetooth with the A10 app, the solution is probably in the A10's bluetooth menu.

I started reading this and thought it looked familiar.  And then I read a little more and it started looking even MORE familiar.  And then I looked at the author and realized it was me.  Ha!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: zeus163 on June 28, 2022, 01:06:02 AM
Yeah, it was totally you! I just wanted to link back to your post because that is what got me messing around with it and working. You did all the hard work.

I just upgraded to the 13 Pro today and couldn't get my A10 to connect. I knew that I had read something on here about it and found the post. On the A10, I kept trying to add an Audio Device and nothing would work. After reading this post, I played with some settings and what did work for me was going into Bluetooth>REC Remote. There I saw my old device in the Manage Added Devices. I decided to try the Add Device (Pairing) from there and lo and behold, the bluetooth device was finally recognized on my phone and I'm all good to go. Now, I didn't look up the A10 directions, so maybe this is how it is supposed to be done anyway, but like I said, I was trying to pair the device from the Audio Device menu. Which was wrong.

Just thought I'd add to this.

IMPORTANT FOR iPHONE 13 USERS

I've had my A10 for one year and it's been my main recording deck since the day I got it (previous main deck was an Edirol R-07).  I used my iPhone 12 Pro Max when I first got the A10, and I've been loving the ease with which I can control the recording with an app on my phone.  A week ago, I got an iPhone 13 Pro Max (w/ 1TB storage).  And that's when this conundrum began ... no matter what I did, I could not get the iPhone 13 to recognize (and pair with) the A10.  I tried and tried and tried ... but no dice.  The only saving grace was that the iPhone 12 / A10 combo has always worked just fine, so I was still able to >:D two shows last week while using the A10 app on my iPhone.  But I only have two weeks from receipt of the iPhone 13 to return the iPhone 12 and get the guaranteed refund for the trade-in.  I chatted with Apple support via text at their webpage ... not much help.  I drove over to a Best Buy and found a sharp young guy in the smart phone section and he actually gave it a really good effort (especially considering I didn't buy the phone or recorder from Best Buy so I was just a random guy walking in off the street asking for service).  After that, I finally decided I had to go big, so I made an appointment at the nearest Apple Store, which is an hour drive away.  I don't go there often, so I don't know what's normal, but I was seen after waiting 5 minutes or so.  The person who assisted me was a young lady named Grace, probably in her mid-late 20s.  She dove right into it - had my iPhone 12, iPhone 13 and A10 layed out along with a few other devices of her own and also had the A10 manual pulled up on her iPad.  For a good half hour she poked around through the iPhone menus, ran diagnostics, did various other testing, went to the backroom a couple of times ... but no bueno.  She called her boss Sasha over and he worked on it for five minutes or so.  He had some really insightful ideas for fixes ... but even he couldn't solve this.  Sasha got called away to another customer and Grace went back at it.  Around 45 minutes in - after reading parts of the A10 manual - Grace started taking a hard look at the menus in the A10; in particular, the Bluetooth menu.  And then she found something and BANG - just like that - problem solved.  So the smart thing for me at that point would have been to ask Grace exactly what she had just found that fixed the problem.  But I was super happy to finally get this saga done with and this was 50 minutes into the session; and I could tell Grace needed a break.  So I just thanked her and left.  Just as she was about to solve the problem, however, I do remember her saying she was looking at the bluetooth settings in the A10 and it looked like it was set to send data out to a device like a bluetooth speaker, as opposed to being set to receive data from a recording rig.  So after it was all said and done ... there is still that mystery out there ... if the bluetooth settings in the A10 were the problem (with the iPhone 13), for the last year, why (how?) did the A10 work just fine with the iPhone 12?  Grace was equally baffled by this question.

TL;DR:  If you upgrade an iPhone that works properly with the A10 app, but your new iPhone doesn't connect over bluetooth with the A10 app, the solution is probably in the A10's bluetooth menu.

I started reading this and thought it looked familiar.  And then I read a little more and it started looking even MORE familiar.  And then I looked at the author and realized it was me.  Ha!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on June 28, 2022, 02:29:57 PM
The PCM A-10 is back in Stock at B&H Photo when I dropped in on my lunch hour.
Walk in and shipping...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rigpimp on June 28, 2022, 04:05:06 PM
I got the reminder from B&H and tipped off a buddy that wanted one and he was able to scoop one up.

Is there anything this can't do?  I was able to pair it via Bluetooth to my car for playback on the way home from its first use.  I really like this thing
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on June 28, 2022, 07:06:41 PM


Is there anything this can't do? 

32 bit float?  But seriously, that apart, indeed it's an excellent little device.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: beatkilla on June 30, 2022, 12:24:03 PM
I just got another one of these to replace my faulty one from a few years back.


Question on BLUETOOTH.

Are you just pairing this one time with your phone and leaving bluetooth setting ON in the A-10 or switching bluetooth off when not in use?



Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: dyneq on June 30, 2022, 12:31:01 PM
^ I just leave it on. The battery life is already crazy long, and when I do power it up I typically want to pair it.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on June 30, 2022, 01:32:40 PM
^ I just leave it on. The battery life is already crazy long, and when I do power it up I typically want to pair it.

Same.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: beatkilla on July 03, 2022, 06:01:08 PM
Is there NOT a low sensitivity setting for external mic input?  I only see it for the built in mics.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 03, 2022, 10:58:01 PM
Is there NOT a low sensitivity setting for external mic input?  I only see it for the built in mics.

External Input Setting can be set to MIC IN or Audio IN.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on July 04, 2022, 09:36:36 AM
Is there NOT a low sensitivity setting for external mic input?  I only see it for the built in mics.

External Input Setting can be set to MIC IN or Audio IN.

Like, as in,  External Preamp      

woo-hoo !!!!
off to the races, Becky !
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: neutrino on July 05, 2022, 12:55:13 AM
I just got another one of these to replace my faulty one from a few years back.


Question on BLUETOOTH.

Are you just pairing this one time with your phone and leaving bluetooth setting ON in the A-10 or switching bluetooth off when not in use?

In what way was it faulty?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: beatkilla on July 05, 2022, 06:54:50 PM
I just got another one of these to replace my faulty one from a few years back.


Question on BLUETOOTH.

Are you just pairing this one time with your phone and leaving bluetooth setting ON in the A-10 or switching bluetooth off when not in use?

In what way was it faulty?

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188246.msg2305460#msg2305460
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rastasean on July 05, 2022, 11:04:31 PM
Just to confirm, this recorder can't be used as a usb audio interface, correct?

edit...no it can't.

Q&A on bhphoto answers this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1447756-REG/sony_pcm_a10_high_resolution_audio_recorder.html/qa
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Gaerlind on July 06, 2022, 05:39:03 AM
Just to confirm, this recorder can't be used as a usb audio interface, correct?
Try Roland R07 - it also great sounds and have a lot of settings. Sometimes greater than A10.
With last firmware 1.10 (upgradable by user) it can work as external usb audiointerface.
https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/r-07/updates_drivers/a7768b97-e7e0-453a-b807-a1b5c7846a5f/
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Niels on July 06, 2022, 12:18:06 PM
I just got another one of these to replace my faulty one from a few years back.


Question on BLUETOOTH.

Are you just pairing this one time with your phone and leaving bluetooth setting ON in the A-10 or switching bluetooth off when not in use?

In what way was it faulty?
Mine had sticky controls out of the box, and a replacement didn’t fix that. My R-07 was better in that regard (But not perfect)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on July 10, 2022, 05:59:44 AM
There was a thunderstorm at night.
PCM-A10, internal microphones wide position, recording level 20.
Five minutes of relaxation )
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AR7eiWeX8tC5dgrjQM1KxC8aGaY74NqA/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on July 10, 2022, 08:43:33 PM
That storm sounds pretty good to me!  A good wide natural soundstage and a balanced frequency response.  Perhaps the very lowest frequencies of the storm are lost but it doesn't sound thin.  Not having been there at the time it's hard to be sure.  It's a great little recorder for such audio "kodak moments" - maybe the name should be "sony moments"!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: rastasean on July 10, 2022, 10:08:33 PM
What does MNL mean on the display? The M10 didn't have this on the display?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on July 10, 2022, 11:33:21 PM
What does MNL mean on the display? The M10 didn't have this on the display?

Manual gain settings as opposed to auto gain
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: hipporu on July 11, 2022, 05:20:31 AM
That storm sounds pretty good to me!  A good wide natural soundstage and a balanced frequency response.  Perhaps the very lowest frequencies of the storm are lost but it doesn't sound thin.  Not having been there at the time it's hard to be sure.  It's a great little recorder for such audio "kodak moments" - maybe the name should be "sony moments"!
Yes, you are right, the lower end is slightly lowered, which is typical for a cardio microphone. But this is easily corrected in the post 2-3-4 dB plus. It was possible to put the recorder on the floor, like a PZM, but it was already wet there. With external omni on the ground (Clippy EM272), the LF rises more than I can hear with my ears in place.
Quite often they ask whether the PCM-A10 is suitable for nature, industrial and other sound? I think more than. Device from the series "grab and record".
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 11, 2022, 09:48:00 AM
What does MNL mean on the display? The M10 didn't have this on the display?

Manual gain settings as opposed to auto gain

That one puzzles me for a second literally every time I notice it. "Did I accidentally turn on the Mono Normalization Levels? The Midrange Noise Limiter? The ... oh, duh."
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: lmgbtapes on July 18, 2022, 04:26:53 AM
Had a wildly disheartening gear failure tonight.

A10 showed levels, app showed levels, but just played back file, and it's dead silent after about 50 mins (and of course the main act came out an hour into recording).

I was monitoring levels during show and know it was showing as fine.

Appears to be SDHC card issue. I made 5 second recording just now, it shows levels, and I try to play back, this one just returns error overall.

I'm holding out some small shred of hope that maybe I can recover the audio somehow once I get home... but given that the first 50 mins of recording plays fine, and then nothing, I am not optimistic.

Was a ridiculously killer show too. So bummed. Teach me to try off-brand cards. Just can't believe it's possible to SEE LEVELS RECORDING FINE and end up with nothing.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on July 18, 2022, 07:32:04 AM
Bummer.  Indeed that does make one regard the whole process with deep suspicion!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: RyanJ on July 18, 2022, 09:27:30 AM
I thought going digital would alleviate any anxiety I have of phantom tapes that happened to me a few times with Sony DAT recorders!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: unidentified on July 18, 2022, 01:22:46 PM
One of the reasons I run two rigs at each show.  My condolences!   
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 18, 2022, 01:38:29 PM

Was a ridiculously killer show too. So bummed. Teach me to try off-brand cards. Just can't believe it's possible to SEE LEVELS RECORDING FINE and end up with nothing.

Uggggh, so sorry. That is the absolute worst.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ideal77dlr on July 18, 2022, 04:04:46 PM
Just a quick recap if anyone could help as I just got one of these…

Running something like Church Audio mics with a battery box, I assume it’s “audio in” and then I see “Auto Gain Ctrl” defaults to “High”. Do I need to set that to “Low” every time or do the mics/battery override this?

What’s “MNL” on the screen? Manual gain?

Anyone know what Unity Gain is?

Sorry I know some of this is probably scattered throughout these threads….
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 18, 2022, 04:10:25 PM

Running something like Church Audio mics with a battery box, I assume it’s “audio in” and then I see “Auto Gain Ctrl” defaults to “High”. Do I need to set that to “Low” every time or do the mics/battery override this?

I don't know, because I've never used Auto Gain, and can't imagine why you would want to, since auto gain results in horrible wild gain swings. (I ruined my first ever recording that way.) Is there a reason you don't want to use manual gain and do any level fixing in post?


What’s “MNL” on the screen? Manual gain?

Yep!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ideal77dlr on July 18, 2022, 04:17:56 PM
Thanks.

I don’t want to use “Auto Gain”.

I assume then that the “MNL” indication on the screen is indicating that I’m not using it?

Therefore the “High/Low” is irrelevent?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 18, 2022, 05:00:01 PM

I don’t want to use “Auto Gain”.

I assume then that the “MNL” indication on the screen is indicating that I’m not using it?

Therefore the “High/Low” is irrelevent?

Yup! And it remembers your settings that you want manual gain (I just double-checked), so you just need to select "audio in" when you plug your mics in, and you're good to go.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ideal77dlr on July 18, 2022, 05:02:36 PM

I don’t want to use “Auto Gain”.

I assume then that the “MNL” indication on the screen is indicating that I’m not using it?

Therefore the “High/Low” is irrelevent?

Yup! And it remembers your settings that you want manual gain (I just double-checked), so you just need to select "audio in" when you plug your mics in, and you're good to go.

Fantastic, thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on July 18, 2022, 06:25:28 PM
Unity gain is 4 on Audio In, I believe
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: lmgbtapes on July 19, 2022, 12:59:58 AM

Was a ridiculously killer show too. So bummed. Teach me to try off-brand cards. Just can't believe it's possible to SEE LEVELS RECORDING FINE and end up with nothing.

Uggggh, so sorry. That is the absolute worst.

Yeah. Ultimate pain. At least there are others out there who understand haha.

e: For future reference, don't be a dumbass like me and buy fake cards - https://recoverhdd.com/blog/recovering-data-from-fake-sd-cards.html




As a followup, now that I'm home, I tried WAV repair tool and nothing. Examined file in a hex editor and all the data after the failure point is entirely empty (nothin' but 00's), so it's a dud.

I still got a SBD recording from this show on a separate device. So it is still preserved. But for me a huge part of the memories are in the ambience. I hate sharing cold SBD. Ah well. Live and learn. Don't use cheap huge cards, y'all.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on July 19, 2022, 10:28:48 PM
auto gain is useful to preserve talking, and that's about it.
Background noise will fluctuate in opposition to loudness of the main signal.
That optimizes for intelligibility of the speech content, at the expense of preserving a realistic volume level record of the happening
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 19, 2022, 11:12:35 PM
auto gain is useful to preserve talking, and that's about it.
Background noise will fluctuate in opposition to loudness of the main signal.
That optimizes for intelligibility of the speech content, at the expense of preserving a realistic volume level record of the happening

If I want louder talking, that's what dynamic compression is for. Or Music Rebalance in iZotope RX.

I don't even use auto gain for interviews. If someone could make a chopped A10 with auto gain physically removed, I would buy it.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: ideal77dlr on July 20, 2022, 08:08:17 AM
Is there any way to remove the “Use Sync Rec function to record?” message that pops up when you plug mics in?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on July 20, 2022, 02:59:39 PM
auto gain is useful to preserve talking, and that's about it.
Background noise will fluctuate in opposition to loudness of the main signal.
That optimizes for intelligibility of the speech content, at the expense of preserving a realistic volume level record of the happening

If I want louder talking, that's what dynamic compression is for. Or Music Rebalance in iZotope RX.



I would bet that not all of sony's customers do post production
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: DavidPuddy on July 26, 2022, 11:30:14 AM
I need a refresher for  >:D tonight - audio in should be ok for a small (~200) club with nbobs/baby nbox, right? I remember mic in being crazy hot last time I ran and you can't change between audio/mic in through the app. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 26, 2022, 04:32:18 PM
I need a refresher for  >:D tonight - audio in should be ok for a small (~200) club with nbobs/baby nbox, right? I remember mic in being crazy hot last time I ran and you can't change between audio/mic in through the app. Thanks!

I have never run anything but audio in, even for unamplified acoustic shows.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: guitard on July 27, 2022, 03:40:00 PM
I need a refresher for  >:D tonight - audio in should be ok for a small (~200) club with nbobs/baby nbox, right? I remember mic in being crazy hot last time I ran and you can't change between audio/mic in through the app. Thanks!

I have never run anything but audio in, even for unamplified acoustic shows.

Except on a couple of occasions when I fucked up >:( - same for me.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: vibrioidxire on August 01, 2022, 08:57:18 AM
How much metal is in this thing? I just bought its distant brother ICD-SX2000 and have heard that the ICD model is metal-based while the PCM-A10 isn't. Is that true?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: neutrino on August 01, 2022, 05:07:45 PM
How much metal is in this thing? I just bought its distant brother ICD-SX2000 and have heard that the ICD model is metal-based while the PCM-A10 isn't. Is that true?

Very little. The microphones and the mic stand mount could be extracted leaving almost nothing.
 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on August 02, 2022, 03:47:44 PM
I made my first two recordings this weekend using two A10s (one SBD, one AUD), and not only did bluetooth control work seamlessly, but I was amazed get home and find that the two clocks seem to have been in perfect sync — I didn't need to do any time stretching to line them up in Audacity.

Anyone else know if this is an unreported feature, or if I just got super-lucky with my two devices?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Ozpeter on August 02, 2022, 10:43:27 PM
I made my first two recordings this weekend using two A10s (one SBD, one AUD), and not only did bluetooth control work seamlessly, but I was amazed get home and find that the two clocks seem to have been in perfect sync — I didn't need to do any time stretching to line them up in Audacity.

Anyone else know if this is an unreported feature, or if I just got super-lucky with my two devices?

I've spent a happy hour today trying to persuade mine to connect to my usual quite modern phone by BT but it won't.  So I heaved a five year old phone out of a drawer and that works fine.  Moral - don't assume that your phone will work with it.  As for sync - that probably depends on the quality of the oscillator and it would seem that Sony haven't skimped on that.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: RyanJ on August 06, 2022, 07:19:32 AM
I made my first two recordings this weekend using two A10s (one SBD, one AUD), and not only did bluetooth control work seamlessly, but I was amazed get home and find that the two clocks seem to have been in perfect sync — I didn't need to do any time stretching to line them up in Audacity.

Anyone else know if this is an unreported feature, or if I just got super-lucky with my two devices?

Are you saying you hooked up multiple A10s to one device?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on August 06, 2022, 08:36:47 AM
Are you saying you hooked up multiple A10s to one device?

To one phone, yes. You have to alternate which one you're connected to, obviously, but it's not hard — just go into bluetooth settings and select the other one, then back to the REC Remote app. Takes maybe five seconds.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: RyanJ on August 06, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
Are you saying you hooked up multiple A10s to one device?

To one phone, yes. You have to alternate which one you're connected to, obviously, but it's not hard — just go into bluetooth settings and select the other one, then back to the REC Remote app. Takes maybe five seconds.

So they aren’t “in sync” per se. you still have to manually sync them. But once you do, their timing matches up and you don’t need to stretch one file or another?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: nulldogmas on August 06, 2022, 03:12:37 PM
So they aren’t “in sync” per se. you still have to manually sync them. But once you do, their timing matches up and you don’t need to stretch one file or another?

Correct. I may have just gotten very lucky - the M10s I owned were certainly never in sync like this - but wanted to see what others have experienced.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: morst on August 07, 2022, 10:25:33 AM
So they aren’t “in sync” per se. you still have to manually sync them. But once you do, their timing matches up and you don’t need to stretch one file or another?

Correct. I may have just gotten very lucky - the M10s I owned were certainly never in sync like this - but wanted to see what others have experienced.
Shane aka SEC1968 has a set of recorders which are a "lucky pair" that's too close to bother correcting for. His are Tascam DR-7's.
I can't think of any other instances!?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Niels on August 07, 2022, 02:51:02 PM
The Roland R-07 app allows simultaneous BT start/stop and monitoring of up to 4 devices iirc.
I only own 1 so I don’t know how synchronous they would run.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: roffels on August 07, 2022, 03:28:37 PM
The Roland R-07 app allows simultaneous BT start/stop and monitoring of up to 4 devices iirc.
I only own 1 so I don’t know how synchronous they would run.

I've generally had good luck until there's a file split.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
Post by: Clem Cheesy on August 09, 2022, 06:28:04 AM
The Roland R-07 app allows simultaneous BT start/stop and monitoring of up to 4 devices iirc.
I only own 1 so I don’t know how synchronous they would run.

BT isn't a syncing protocol, it was made for consumer electronics, so if one controller and two receivers, the start-stop will likely be off a few clicks.
Finger snap at start of recording (before the perfomance...lol) can help...